sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
And people complain about my written English....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/ap_on_fe_st/nz_text_speak_1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/ap_on_fe_st/nz_text_speak_1
N.Z. Students Can Use txt Speak on Tests
- Thread starter sechs
- Start date
WTF? I dont yunderstand any of that kidde lingo stuff, so how can the instructiors do so? Are they requured to attend specila calses? It is pretty pathetis that people cannot read and write cleraly anymore in their native langague. It drives me nuts to be dealign with the 30 yearolds and under that cannot compose a decedent pargagrph, nmuch less prepare a tyechinical r4eport for global regularoty agency review. 
ddrueding
Fixture
30 year old and under...at least I still have a few more years...
Sol
Storage is cool
Guys it's New Zealand, of course they're allowed to use txt instead of text, that's exactly how they pronounce the word...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
It's still an abomination.
But then, here in the US we have Ebonics and IM-speak.
But then, here in the US we have Ebonics and IM-speak.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
They recently started enforcing the high school exit examination here in California, and folks are all up in arms. One of the complaints is that it discriminates against non-native speakers of English.
English is one of the things that it's testing dummies!
English is one of the things that it's testing dummies!
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Maybe they should start testing in Spanish in California.
ddrueding
Fixture
The smart adapt and the stupid can't; therefore society changes in favor of the stupid.
ddrueding
Fixture
The smart adapt and the stupid can't; therefore society changes in favor of the stupid.
paugie
Storage is cool
text speak?
The Philippines being the de-facto text capital of the world, people here have taken text speak to new heights.
When my wife and I received our first cell phones as gifts 4 years (5 years?) ago from our 2nd daughter, my wife took to wasting money on calls. a phone call of 1 minute duration cost us P8.50 where a text message of 150 characters cost only P1.00.
Nowadays, it costs us P3.00 to send a message. P1.00 for her to send the message, P1.00 for me to ask her to clarify the textspeak and another Peso to send it to me in clearer language. Gahhh!!!
The worst textspeaker I have come across is a PhD in Education. I have never read a message from her without having the dizzies.
The Philippines being the de-facto text capital of the world, people here have taken text speak to new heights.
When my wife and I received our first cell phones as gifts 4 years (5 years?) ago from our 2nd daughter, my wife took to wasting money on calls. a phone call of 1 minute duration cost us P8.50 where a text message of 150 characters cost only P1.00.
Nowadays, it costs us P3.00 to send a message. P1.00 for her to send the message, P1.00 for me to ask her to clarify the textspeak and another Peso to send it to me in clearer language. Gahhh!!!
The worst textspeaker I have come across is a PhD in Education. I have never read a message from her without having the dizzies.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'm still having trouble with the idea that people send text messages to begin with.
Text messages work good when you're in a meeting or class and don't want to get up to talk on the phone for something which requires a short and simple answer. They work for other things fairly well. I was never big on them and now I use it fairly often.
ddrueding
Fixture
I text one person in particular quite often; so as not to disturb her work or her...husband.
I ask my clients to send a text instead of leaving a voicemail. It's much easier to keep track of information when it is stored as text.
I ask my clients to send a text instead of leaving a voicemail. It's much easier to keep track of information when it is stored as text.
Sol
Storage is cool
I often get texts from my sister when she wants to call me on skype (normally she'd just call but since I'm living in a hostel my computer is in a locker when I'm not using it). I used to often text friends to see if they wanted to come around and watch TV shows when they were released (Not so much now that that would involve 20+ hours on a plane)... If it only takes one text it's not worth a call and I'd much rather get a text whilst driving than a call that I'd have to ignore or pull over to answer.
Although I'll admit I've never used text enough to make it worth programming any non formalized shorthand into the predictive text dictionary. It's still quicker to type "text" in full than to try explaining to my phone (or the person receiving the text) what the hell "tyt" is supposed to mean... Really short common acronyms maybe but nothing else.
Although I'll admit I've never used text enough to make it worth programming any non formalized shorthand into the predictive text dictionary. It's still quicker to type "text" in full than to try explaining to my phone (or the person receiving the text) what the hell "tyt" is supposed to mean... Really short common acronyms maybe but nothing else.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Freaks! All of you!
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
Am I the only one missing out on the cell phone devolution?
Sol
Storage is cool
So do you have some ultimate form of communication that makes SMS obsolete Mercutio or do you just not communicate?
I mean I prefer not to use SMS... It's pretty much the only form of communication I use that costs money to use (rather than costing money to have like the internet). But it's still useful...
I mean I prefer not to use SMS... It's pretty much the only form of communication I use that costs money to use (rather than costing money to have like the internet). But it's still useful...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I seriously can't believe it's useful.
Can't. If I saw an adult doing it, I would laugh at them.
Anyway, there are three acceptable forms of communication.
1. Face to Face. Duh.
2. Phone. One I'm not terribly fond of. I actually dislike talking to voice mail systems, too.
3. E-mail.
There are no circumstances where I would consider using SMS.
Instant messages are also not on that list. When pressed, I write an email normally and then copy and paste it into several IM windows on meebo.com. I don't know any adults who use IM software and work outside IT.
Can't. If I saw an adult doing it, I would laugh at them.
Anyway, there are three acceptable forms of communication.
1. Face to Face. Duh.
2. Phone. One I'm not terribly fond of. I actually dislike talking to voice mail systems, too.
3. E-mail.
There are no circumstances where I would consider using SMS.
Instant messages are also not on that list. When pressed, I write an email normally and then copy and paste it into several IM windows on meebo.com. I don't know any adults who use IM software and work outside IT.
ddrueding
Fixture
I can't stand IM; I haven't used it since I stopped dating college girls. Face to face is ideal; but if you don't have my face, don't expect my time. Therefore all communications that aren't face to face are better off in e-mail or SMS. Phone calls and IM demand immediate response, which I don't like. E-mail and SMS are essentially the same service, but delivered though different devices. If everyone had e-mail into their cellphones, what would be the difference?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'd be able to use a proper E-mail program and a maintain a proper E-mail storage system (IMAP) for them. That's the difference.
Bozo
Storage? I am Storage!
Text messaging??? What's that?
I have a hard enough time operating a cell phone, let alone trying to type on it. :crap:
Bozo :joker:
I have a hard enough time operating a cell phone, let alone trying to type on it. :crap:
Bozo :joker:
paugie
Storage is cool
To lend credence to the claim of the Philippines being the SMS capital of the world (AFAIK, there are other contenders) ...
In any given vehicle, a jeep for example, which can seat 24 or so people, at least 4 of those or as many as 8 will be holding cell phones and texting away. This inspite of the great risk from snatchers.
I text, but not as ardently as most kids here. The two competing SMS providers have "unlimited" offers of P15 for a day of texting, P25 for two days of texting and P50 for 5 days of unlimited texting.
And deaf/mutes have forsaken sign-ing for text.
In any given vehicle, a jeep for example, which can seat 24 or so people, at least 4 of those or as many as 8 will be holding cell phones and texting away. This inspite of the great risk from snatchers.
I text, but not as ardently as most kids here. The two competing SMS providers have "unlimited" offers of P15 for a day of texting, P25 for two days of texting and P50 for 5 days of unlimited texting.
And deaf/mutes have forsaken sign-ing for text.
Text messaging is useful. I have no problem spelling out complete words and my messages are readable even on my simple phone. To me it's not much different than sending an e-mail, so I don't see how it's much different. The phone becomes the e-mail client...not a big deal.
Same here! I'm the anti-tech curmudgeon. I am sure that one cannot type on those tiny buttons nearly as fast as one can speak. Typing text seems to defeat the purpose of having it be a telephone.
ddrueding
Fixture
Typing on my cell is pretty easy; I got this one specifically so I could text quickly. It also allows me to file my messages, or transfer them into Outlook.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
Outlook? Someone's been brainwashed!
ddrueding
Fixture
I've been using Outlook for years. Not because it's the best e-mail client, or because I use all the spiffy features; I don't even have it tied into an exchange server. I use it because all my clients use it, and I need to know how to do stuff with it.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
That's a reason to *learn* Outlook, not to *use* it.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Hint: If you teach people to use a decent mail program - one that doesn't have its own programming language, people won't use Outlook.
But back on topic, proper mail systems use standards-compliant SMTP for mail exchange and offer IMAP or even plain old POP3 for delivery. I can use any E-mail client I want and E-mail anyone else on the internet. I don't need four different programs to talk to four different people. IM doesn't do those things and as such is a retarded, half-assed E-mail implementation. It's just not good enough.
But back on topic, proper mail systems use standards-compliant SMTP for mail exchange and offer IMAP or even plain old POP3 for delivery. I can use any E-mail client I want and E-mail anyone else on the internet. I don't need four different programs to talk to four different people. IM doesn't do those things and as such is a retarded, half-assed E-mail implementation. It's just not good enough.
Why does that sound suspicious?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
My problems with Outlook:
1. Defaults to using MS Word as an Email editor. This is like using an Uzi to kill mosquitoes. Particularly annoying for those of use whose email programs are text-only.
2. Improperly places new content in replied messages above any quote in a reply. I strongly prefer to intermix my replies with the text I'm responding to, as I normally do on a forum or any other goddamn place. Idiots who don't know any better think that is improper E-mail style and/or are confused by my doing things correctly.
3. It's a VERY heavyweight application for something that's just supposed to be a mail client.
4. It also struggles to be a PIM, and therefore has a metric assload of features that no one uses unless they're paying an IT guy $75k a year to implement them and support them on a server (that probably cost another $10k + licenses as well).
5. PST files. Mail has a standard format. It's called mbox. PST files are some kind of weird Jet database format, with all the associated problems.
6. Variable data files. Outlook can store data in multiple different address books, that don't even share the same file type (.OAB? .WAB? .PST?) or location. Outlook can keep mail in PST files or leave it on an Exchange Server. I've yet to run into an organization where everyone's mail setup is ACTUALLY uniform.
And I've worked for some big organizations.
7. Import/Export weirdness. Every version of Outlook seems to be able to import to two or three massively useless formats, exactly none of which are actually useful. And then there are the morons who import their PSTs instead of just adding them as data sources... who then spend the rest of their natural lives bitching about things like duplicated address book entries.
An E-mail program SHOULD NOT BE THAT COMPLICATED.
8. VBScript. Outlook has its own programming language. A language that is not limited in scope to Email and PIM functions. There's a Japanese dude who implemented Pac Man and Frogger in VBScript. Why does that functionality exist in Outlook in the first place, and why does it need to do some of the things it does?
9. There is no such thing as a general purpose E-mail virus. There are PLENTY of Outlook/Outlook Express viruses. Virus Scanners need a whole new component and feature because of Outlook design problems.
10. The need for moronic security settings. Granted, this is a problem caused and exacerbated by all things Microsoft, but I run into someone at least once a month who can't E-mail an .EXE or a .MDB or something because Outlook is stupid enough to maybe run executable code from it and multiple Windows components are now configured to disallow that by default.
11. Workgroups can't share calendars without Exchange or a 3rd-party Hack. Dur. Good idea with that one! Vista's iCal support is one of its few good points; I know several organizations on Exchange ENTIRELY because they needed calendar sharing.
12. Outlook can't share Notes, period.
13. Outlook costs a lot of money.
14. Outlook forces Exchange migration. There's a big long list of Outlook features that simply don't work unless Exchange is present.
15. Outlook Error Messages are highly unhelpful. Most of the problems Outlook has are database errors of some kind (see #5 and #6), but only once in a blue moon does Outlook actually indicate that. Instead you get hilarious stuff like "Unknown Error" or "Outlook was unable to create mail message", which each have an even dozen or so different possible causes. As a support guy, I wind up doing things like deleting and recreating Outlook profiles/identities a lot, just because it's faster and easier than trying to figure out what's actually wrong.
Can I stop now? Cause I can keep going. My point is that Outlook is extremely bad software in just about every way I can think of.
1. Defaults to using MS Word as an Email editor. This is like using an Uzi to kill mosquitoes. Particularly annoying for those of use whose email programs are text-only.
2. Improperly places new content in replied messages above any quote in a reply. I strongly prefer to intermix my replies with the text I'm responding to, as I normally do on a forum or any other goddamn place. Idiots who don't know any better think that is improper E-mail style and/or are confused by my doing things correctly.
3. It's a VERY heavyweight application for something that's just supposed to be a mail client.
4. It also struggles to be a PIM, and therefore has a metric assload of features that no one uses unless they're paying an IT guy $75k a year to implement them and support them on a server (that probably cost another $10k + licenses as well).
5. PST files. Mail has a standard format. It's called mbox. PST files are some kind of weird Jet database format, with all the associated problems.
6. Variable data files. Outlook can store data in multiple different address books, that don't even share the same file type (.OAB? .WAB? .PST?) or location. Outlook can keep mail in PST files or leave it on an Exchange Server. I've yet to run into an organization where everyone's mail setup is ACTUALLY uniform.
And I've worked for some big organizations.
7. Import/Export weirdness. Every version of Outlook seems to be able to import to two or three massively useless formats, exactly none of which are actually useful. And then there are the morons who import their PSTs instead of just adding them as data sources... who then spend the rest of their natural lives bitching about things like duplicated address book entries.
An E-mail program SHOULD NOT BE THAT COMPLICATED.
8. VBScript. Outlook has its own programming language. A language that is not limited in scope to Email and PIM functions. There's a Japanese dude who implemented Pac Man and Frogger in VBScript. Why does that functionality exist in Outlook in the first place, and why does it need to do some of the things it does?
9. There is no such thing as a general purpose E-mail virus. There are PLENTY of Outlook/Outlook Express viruses. Virus Scanners need a whole new component and feature because of Outlook design problems.
10. The need for moronic security settings. Granted, this is a problem caused and exacerbated by all things Microsoft, but I run into someone at least once a month who can't E-mail an .EXE or a .MDB or something because Outlook is stupid enough to maybe run executable code from it and multiple Windows components are now configured to disallow that by default.
11. Workgroups can't share calendars without Exchange or a 3rd-party Hack. Dur. Good idea with that one! Vista's iCal support is one of its few good points; I know several organizations on Exchange ENTIRELY because they needed calendar sharing.
12. Outlook can't share Notes, period.
13. Outlook costs a lot of money.
14. Outlook forces Exchange migration. There's a big long list of Outlook features that simply don't work unless Exchange is present.
15. Outlook Error Messages are highly unhelpful. Most of the problems Outlook has are database errors of some kind (see #5 and #6), but only once in a blue moon does Outlook actually indicate that. Instead you get hilarious stuff like "Unknown Error" or "Outlook was unable to create mail message", which each have an even dozen or so different possible causes. As a support guy, I wind up doing things like deleting and recreating Outlook profiles/identities a lot, just because it's faster and easier than trying to figure out what's actually wrong.
Can I stop now? Cause I can keep going. My point is that Outlook is extremely bad software in just about every way I can think of.
ddrueding
Fixture
All of your points against outlook are valid, but in my situation, just don't matter.
1&3 only matter if you have slow computers, and I don't.
2 is a personal preference, I also prefer the reply to be on-top in e-mail unless it gets very complex.
4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14 only really apply to non-corporate, non-exchange configurations; which are a silly place to put outlook. If you have an exchange server, and it is tied into your domain, and you have everyone running outlook tied directly into exchange (as I do, MAPI and POP3 are disabled), and you have virus software running on all the workstations. What's the big deal ;-)
The rest are issues that keep me employed.
Must go, I'm re-building a domain controller and an exchange server all night...:rotfl:
1&3 only matter if you have slow computers, and I don't.
2 is a personal preference, I also prefer the reply to be on-top in e-mail unless it gets very complex.
4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14 only really apply to non-corporate, non-exchange configurations; which are a silly place to put outlook. If you have an exchange server, and it is tied into your domain, and you have everyone running outlook tied directly into exchange (as I do, MAPI and POP3 are disabled), and you have virus software running on all the workstations. What's the big deal ;-)
The rest are issues that keep me employed.
Must go, I'm re-building a domain controller and an exchange server all night...:rotfl:
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
#1 matters a great deal in a lot of circumstances. It's not a "slow computers" issue so much as a "Why doesn't your mail program show that bit of text in the floating, square-margin textbox I so clearly used?" Those capabilities should not be present if not everyone can use them.
#3 becomes more of an issue as each new version of Office is released. The 512MB Business desktop you were perfectly happy with for Outlook XP isn't going to be so happy with Outlook, post-2007 Migration. A simple productivity app should not be driving hardware upgrades.
#5, #6, #7 etc are an issue because, even in properly managed environments, no one sets up Outlook the same way. Some people deliver mail to their PST, some leave it on Exchange, some use the Windows Address book, some the Outlook, some the Exchange. Outlook is a "voodoo program" where worker-bees have learned maybe two things that kinda-sorta make Outlook usable for them, so that's what they ALWAYS do, no matter what their support people are recommending.
It's a fucking nightmare.
#3 becomes more of an issue as each new version of Office is released. The 512MB Business desktop you were perfectly happy with for Outlook XP isn't going to be so happy with Outlook, post-2007 Migration. A simple productivity app should not be driving hardware upgrades.
#5, #6, #7 etc are an issue because, even in properly managed environments, no one sets up Outlook the same way. Some people deliver mail to their PST, some leave it on Exchange, some use the Windows Address book, some the Outlook, some the Exchange. Outlook is a "voodoo program" where worker-bees have learned maybe two things that kinda-sorta make Outlook usable for them, so that's what they ALWAYS do, no matter what their support people are recommending.
It's a fucking nightmare.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
You're also the one who doesn't care about the future because you won't be here. There's a history of short-sighted thinking here....
ddrueding
Fixture
???
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
If I had to support outlook I'd probably agree with Merc.
As it is, I only have to use it... to connect to an exchange server on the other side of the USA. Waiting 5 minutes for outlook to close is normal for me. Waiting 10 for it to start and download my inbox is normal for me. Sometime I start the web based e-mail just so I can see what is in my inbox before exchange finishes loading.
Plus I had to change a registry setting to get it to display all e-mails as plain text. You think this would be in the UI setting somewhere.
Hmm, I was trying to be positive.... but nevermind, I agree with Merc.
As it is, I only have to use it... to connect to an exchange server on the other side of the USA. Waiting 5 minutes for outlook to close is normal for me. Waiting 10 for it to start and download my inbox is normal for me. Sometime I start the web based e-mail just so I can see what is in my inbox before exchange finishes loading.
Plus I had to change a registry setting to get it to display all e-mails as plain text. You think this would be in the UI setting somewhere.
Hmm, I was trying to be positive.... but nevermind, I agree with Merc.
ddrueding
Fixture
I actually agree with Merc as well; Outlook is crap software. But it isn't as bad as he makes it sound. It is an integral part of any "MS shop", and works for that purpose. It's also the most available contacts/calendar/task list/whatever app for those already doing the MS thing. If someone has a proposed package for office tasks that includes different software; I would be interested in having a look.