Need a HSFan that actually works well.

[timwhit]

I built myself a new Athlon XP 1800+ system a few months ago. But, I have not been impressed with how hot the CPU runs. Under normal usage it is around 59C. Under full load the CPU is up around 65C. If I leave SETI running overnight the damn thing will lock up tight half the time.

The HSFan I am using right now can be seen here. This fan is nice because it doesn't make my computer sound like an aircraft carrier. I also tried a Coolermaster solution but that was too loud and didn't cool the CPU any better.

One of the problems is that the computer has 3 drives in it, Cheetah 36ES, Bara4, & 1000BB. I cool the Cheetah with a CoolDrive, which sucks air into the computer instead of blowing it out (BTW, what a genius idea that was...suck the hot air from the drive right down next to the CPU). I use one 80mm exhaust fan that I had to custom mount to the back of the case right above the CPU, and then the Enermax PS fans (350W). I tried putting a 92mm fan at the front of the case to suck air in, but it was making too much noise so I disconnected it. Plus, the temp stayed the same anyways.

I want to be able to run the system at 100% CPU usage 24/7 without having to worry if the system might lock up. (My OCed PIII system never locked up, ever.) However, I don’t want to increase the noise level of the machine very much. All without spending too much money, haha. (I have the necessary tools to cut the hell out of the case if that is what it will take.)

So, what do you guys suggest?

This is the case I am using (Inwin Q500):

 

[Tea]

There is a fair bit of variation between individual XPs, Tim. Or at least that is what I have found. How much of the variation one can ascribe to the CPUs themselves, and how much can be put down to other factors is a different question. Actually, it woulds be interesting to see what people think of this - how significant, as a fraction of the overall temperature variation between installed XPs of a given speed grade, is:

1: The individual chip

2: The seating of the heat sink

3: The type of thermal compound

4: The amount of thermal compound

5: Variations in exact voltage supplied by the mainboard

6: Variations in the accuracy of the main board temperature readout

And I haven't even started on the heatsink, the fan, or the case cooling yet!

I'm inclined to think that #1, #6, and possibly #5 are the most important, but that's just the impression I have picked up in the workshop. I haven't researched it in a scientific fashion.

 

[Tea]

As to your particular problem, Tim, I suspect tat you happen to have either (a) a more than usually hot running chip, or (b) a main board related problem. I'm assuming here that your case temp is reasonable - but is it? Do you have a figure for it?

 

[The JoJo]

First I suggest you put the 92mm fan back in thecase, but if possible so that it runs with 7V. That should make it more quiet and tolerable to use. That alone might help your problem, as the fan for the CPU would get more cooler air.

But I wouldn't stop there.

Then I would take the CPU cooler off the cpu, clean it, apply some thermal paste (thin layer) between the cpu and the cooler and put the cooler back on the cpu. This might lower your temperature drastically, if the cooler has been using the tape in the bottom of the cooler.

 

[The JoJo]

I don't use fan grills anymore because I want my computer to be very quiet. (dream on, yeah I know...)

You might want to take the fan grill off of your cpu cooler to make it more quiet.

I've take the fan grill off of my PS also btw.

 

[NRG = mc²]

If its the coolers fault you might want to get yourself a Zalman flower heatsink. On my XP1800+ at 1600MHz the temperature reads around 60C full load but thats with an Asus mobo - all other mobos will show 50C.

Stable and quiet!

 

[Clocker]

I've been really impressed with my two OCZ Goliath SE's. They're really quiet...

http://www.3dgameman.com/vr/ocz/goliathse_cooler/video_review.htm

C

 

[Clocker]

Got mine at newegg. I have the cheaper model and it works great:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=ocz+goliath&order=Description

C

BTW: They suck rather than blow and also have temperature controlled fans. In my dually box, the average CPU temp is 52C under full load running F@H 24/7 with a 25C exterior ambient air temperature and 41C case internal air temperature..

 

[Clocker]

WHat are you using to measure your temps?

C

 

[timwhit]

As to your particular problem, Tim, I suspect tat you happen to have either (a) a more than usually hot running chip, or (b) a main board related problem. I'm assuming here that your case temp is reasonable - but is it? Do you have a figure for it?

Currently 35C for the case temp, 63C for the CPU. I am using the Asus PC Probe to get my numbers. The weirdest thing that it reports is the +12 Voltage is 13.24. This seems way to high to me, could this be a problem?

I used thermal paste when I put the HSFan on, and yes I know how to apply it.

JoJo, do you really think fan grills make that big of a difference below 2500RPM? Did you take off the grill on the back of your PS also, or just the internal fan?

Where is a good place to order a 92mm fan (a quiet one)?

 

[Tea]

At 35C ambient, there is nothing in the slightest wrong with your case temp. Hell, in summer, my ambient room temp is higher than that on a hot day. More case fans ain't the answer. And yes, I'd be very surprised to find that you didn't know how to apply a heat sink and some thermal; goo, Tim. I'd take it off and clean it and reapply some goo and remount it just to be absolutely certain (if you haven't already done that, which you probably have), but there ain't nothing weak and prissy about an 80mm CPU fan on a nice big heatsink, so I think it is all but certain that you have either a problematic CPU or a dud motherboard.

Time to swap one or the other out and do some cross-checking. Different CPU same motherboard, or vice-versa. Both tests would be best, of course.

 

[Buck]

Just as a note: JoJo, shouldn't you be running Folding@Home instead of SETI?

 

[Buck]

As far as your heat issue goes, running your CPU at 65C is not unusual. I presently have an XP 1800+ system running at 61C whilst folding@home. The ambient temperature varies between 15C - 30C, but the CPU has not gone past 62C.

If you system is locking up because of the heat, perhaps another device in your system is overheating, such as your AGP card, or memory.

 

[CougTek]

WHat are you using to measure your temps?

My watch :mrgrn:

 

[timwhit]

At 35C ambient, there is nothing in the slightest wrong with your case temp. Hell, in summer, my ambient room temp is higher than that on a hot day. More case fans ain't the answer. And yes, I'd be very surprised to find that you didn't know how to apply a heat sink and some thermal; goo, Tim. I'd take it off and clean it and reapply some goo and remount it just to be absolutely certain (if you haven't already done that, which you probably have), but there ain't nothing weak and prissy about an 80mm CPU fan on a nice big heatsink, so I think it is all but certain that you have either a problematic CPU or a dud motherboard.

Time to swap one or the other out and do some cross-checking. Different CPU same motherboard, or vice-versa. Both tests would be best, of course.

I don't really have another MB to play around with. Nor can I get the machine to lockup consistently. Which really makes the problem a lot harder to figure out. Last night I ran SETI all night long and this morning the machine was still running fine at 63C. I think the ambient air temp is slightly cooler now than it was a couple weeks ago though. I seem to remember the temperature gettting close to 70C when it was hotter out. Which was when I was having more consistent problems.

I doubt my Video card is overheating. It is just a simple Radeon 7000, I ditched my Geforce2 because it would lock up the machine anytime I touched the machine (something wasn't making good contact).

The RAM is Crucial PC2100, I doubt it would be a problem, nor would I know how to find out. Once again, no parts to swap in to test it either.

I hate this kind of problem, it was always the worst when a customer would bring their computer in and say, "Well it locks up once in a while, just ya know when I'm surfing the internet". It takes too long to figure out and you are never sure if you have actually fixed it because in just a little while it could lock up again.

 

[Groltz]

No one has read through the "Folding@home Systems Synopsis" thread?

I have spent a lot of effort in trying to find a Socket A air-cooling solution that works well. Recently, I switched over from a Swiftech MCXC370 to a ThermalRight SLK-800. The SLK-800 has been getting rave reviews from hardware sites in terms of its performance and I have been happy with mine as well. If you want to keep an Athlon cool, get one. It can accommodate either a 60, 70 or 80mm fan. I recommend the most powerful 80mm fan that is still agreeable with you noise-wise. As I type this, my CPU temp is at 47°C, the CPU fan is set at 3925rpm, and the Athlon 1900+ is running at 1793Mhz. (That is with FAH running, BTW).

The thermal compound of choice is Arctic Silver III. It has been proven repeatedly that no one else makes a better compound in terms of heat transfer.

--Steve

 

[timwhit]

The thermal compound of choice is Arctic Silver III. It has been proven repeatedly that no one else makes a better compound in terms of heat transfer.

I just read a review of that Arctic Silver crap and it was less than a degree better than the normal crap they give you when you buy a half way decent heatsink. They can't fool me...

The fan on the Heatsink I have right now runs at around 2700RPM. How do you propose that I increase this? If I could just increase the speed of the fan, this would be the cheapest (or free) way to better cool the system.

I have a potentiometer on one of my other fans to slow it down, but speeding up the fan confuses me. It would need more voltage to speed up so you need to decrease the ampage. After that I am confused.

 

[timwhit]

The system has been running at full load for the last 10 hours or so without locking up. When I went home for lunch the CPU was at 61C, but the room also felt relatively cool. Which reinforces my belief that if I cool the chip better I won't have to worry about it locking up.

 

[Groltz]

I just read a review of that Arctic Silver crap and it was less than a degree better than the normal crap they give you when you buy a half way decent heatsink. They can't fool me...

Then the review you read is either biased or wrong. The thermal compounds included with many heatsinks is terrible in quality. Sometimes they don't even supply compound but a thermal pad which is even worse. It depends on who is selling you the HS...Some HS manufacturers actually include AS with their products.

The fan on the Heatsink I have right now runs at around 2700RPM. How do you propose that I increase this?

Get a faster fan. Fans are cheap.

If I could just increase the speed of the fan, this would be the cheapest (or free) way to better cool the system.

The only way you could increase the speed of the fan would be by increasing the voltage to it. Even if you could combine your 12 and 5 volt rails in series for 17 volts you would be over the limits of the fan, which is probably rated for 8-15 volts.

The real solution is a more efficient heatsink. An efficient heatsink permits a quieter fan to be used while still giving good cooling performance.

 

[The JoJo]

Buck, I'm running FAH, timwhit seems to be running SETI.

...WHAT???? Timwhit, you can't be serious???????

SETI?????????

OUR TEAM NEEDS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The JoJo]

About those fan grills, yes, atleast for the fans I have used they have made a differense.

And I haven't used loud fans (I'm refering mostly to fast spinning fans.).

 

[The JoJo]

I'd agree with groltz, get a slk800, an Alpha or a swiftech. Couple one of those with a quitet 80mm fan and your troubles will probably go away.

Timwhit, I'm not quite clear now, have you cleaned the cooler and reapplied a thin layer of goo? Or did you do this while installing the cooler? Must have mist it if you mentioned it ....

 

[Groltz]

SETI... Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence? Why bother since we already have a whole buttload of them living underground in Dulce, New Mexico? :wink: :wink:

 

[timwhit]

The reason I still do SETI is that I have close to 2000 results. I started over 2 years ago, and I'm not about to stop now and have 0 results on F@H.

 

[Cliptin]

I also intend to buy the SLK-800. I might buy the 600 to save a litlle money.

 

[Tea]

Whooah there!

The real solution is to find the cause of the problem. It's a stock standard XP 1800 at stock standard clock rates, and at a good, low case temperature. Something is wrong. The answer is not to buy a bigger heatsink, it is to work out which of Timwhit's components is the faulty one and get it replaced under warranty.

You don't need to make it crash or hang to test, Tim, you just need to get a reasonable temperature happening. Find a friend with an Athlon and slip your CPU into it. Measure temp. If it's normal (no more than about 50C at idle) your board is bad. If it's too hot, then your CPU is the problem.

 

[Tea]

Oops. I didn't make the main point clear: a stock XP 1800 doesn't need a fancy HSF. Sure, there are top class solutions available, different thermal pastes and so on, and for someone like Groltz they are a Good Thing. But just to run an XP 1800 at stock speed, any old HSF should work just fine. If you can't cool it with an ordinary HSF, it is broken. Tim needs a cure to his real underlying problem, not a band-aid cooling fix to cover it up.

 

[Cliptin]

Tea, agreed.

Tim, are you sure you haven't left any OC settings set. Like increased voltage maybe.

 

[Tea]

Good point, Clippy. Best idea is to take a wholesale approach and reset everything to the factory defaults. You can go over and over stuff, setting it individually, but it's just so easy to miss something. Hell, pull the battery out if in doubt. Can't do any harm.

 

[Buck]

Quite right Tea, standard $15.00 HSF combos work just fine - especially considering the heat tolerance of an XP CPU. With a decent case, I have managed to get those higher clocked CPUs to run fine with a CoolerMaster DP5-7H53F HSF set, and one 80mm chassis fan in addition to the power supply fan.

 

[Buck]

Buck, I'm running FAH, timwhit seems to be running SETI.

...WHAT???? Timwhit, you can't be serious???????

SETI?????????

OUR TEAM NEEDS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry JoJo, my mistake - of course your running F@H.

 

[Fushigi]

The reason I still do SETI is that I have close to 2000 results. I started over 2 years ago, and I'm not about to stop now and have 0 results on F@H.

2028 units at the moment. I might consider switching to F@H after reaching 2500 units, which shouldn't take too long. I'd really love to crack the top 50,000 participants before switching (currently in a 25-way tie for 54.972nd place).

- Fushigi

 

[timwhit]

Maybe it is bad, but that doesn't mean I am going to buy a new one. I bought OEM and I can't return it even If I wanted to.

Almost everything is set to default, not OCed at all.

Still hasn't crashed either, so I'm not going to worry about it anymore unless it starts crashing again.

 

[Cliptin]

Maybe it is bad, but that doesn't mean I am going to buy a new one. I bought OEM and I can't return it even If I wanted to.

Almost everything is set to default, not OCed at all.

Still hasn't crashed either, so I'm not going to worry about it anymore unless it starts crashing again.

If you do start having problems again and think it might be case temp related, point a floor fan into the open case. That should tell you something.

 

[Mercutio]

Of course that can cause it's own special problems...