[NEWS] - It's about damn time
- Thread starter Handruin
- Start date
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
"We are delighted Intel has chosen to demonstrate the multichannel audio capabilities of High Definition Audio using Dolby's newest innovation, Dolby Pro Logic IIx* technology, which delivers the most natural, seamless and immersing 7.1 surround listening experience from any native 2-channel source."
Hmm, nice way of saying that the 7.1 is just 2 channel stereo DSP'ed to buggery. Don't get me wrong, DPL II is great for an old stereo soundtrack, but it has no comparison to a proper discrete DTS-ES mix ala FOTR/Two Towers extended edition.
Hmm, nice way of saying that the 7.1 is just 2 channel stereo DSP'ed to buggery. Don't get me wrong, DPL II is great for an old stereo soundtrack, but it has no comparison to a proper discrete DTS-ES mix ala FOTR/Two Towers extended edition.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
It *is* a big deal, because it WILL lead to wider proliferation of multichannel audio setups. Just... really crappy ones.
Still, as multichannel hardware becomes more common, more and more people will be interested in true multichannel content, like the SACDs I like so much, or perhaps more fully immersive games (mmm... 8 channels of HalfLife 2).
On the other hand, Neo:6 sucks less than ProLogic2, which itself should've been available on PC hardware since AT LEAST the release of the Audigy, and in my opinion nVidia has the best stereo to multichannel matrixing tech of all. Why the hell didn't Intel license Soundstorm or at least the DTS product?
Still, as multichannel hardware becomes more common, more and more people will be interested in true multichannel content, like the SACDs I like so much, or perhaps more fully immersive games (mmm... 8 channels of HalfLife 2).
On the other hand, Neo:6 sucks less than ProLogic2, which itself should've been available on PC hardware since AT LEAST the release of the Audigy, and in my opinion nVidia has the best stereo to multichannel matrixing tech of all. Why the hell didn't Intel license Soundstorm or at least the DTS product?
Jake the Dog
Storage is cool
can you please explain to me why it WILL lead to really crappy multichannel setups, keeping in mind the average PC Joe, using it in his average PC enviroment with his typical consumer level multichannel PC speakers?Mercutio said:
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
If you're using an onboard DAC of any kind (ie, an analog output), you're subjecting your output to the predations of gobs and gobs of EMI. Hence, crappiness. Digital output to an external decoder - a receiver, basically, makes everything better.
PC speakers, even fairly high-end ones like Logitech z680s, are just as crappy as the "theater in a box"-type HT setups. This is great with crappiness (not to say that there aren't really impressive computer speakers - the z680s sound great for what they are, but if they were sold as speakers instead of speakers plus a little amp, they'd cost $99 less rebate at your local Best Buy).
PC speakers, even fairly high-end ones like Logitech z680s, are just as crappy as the "theater in a box"-type HT setups. This is great with crappiness (not to say that there aren't really impressive computer speakers - the z680s sound great for what they are, but if they were sold as speakers instead of speakers plus a little amp, they'd cost $99 less rebate at your local Best Buy).
ddrueding
Fixture
I don't think it will lead anywhere but up. Considering where the average consumer is now, anything would be an improvement. It will still suck, but the direction is up IMHO.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
Merc is right. People will get crap, and want something better. Something better will, therefore, come along.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
The mere fact that there are morons around who think that, on any given budget, multi-speaker, multi-channel setups are better than a simple stereo setup with two quality speakers speaks for itself.
Walk into a professional studio. Take a look at the control room speakers. Count them. Remind yourself that professional sound engineers (a) tend to have very large budgets, and (b) are very, very fussy about quality.
(Hint: you won't need to use your fingers, just your thumbs.)
Walk into a professional studio. Take a look at the control room speakers. Count them. Remind yourself that professional sound engineers (a) tend to have very large budgets, and (b) are very, very fussy about quality.
(Hint: you won't need to use your fingers, just your thumbs.)
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
That's changing too. Multichannel formats are de facto standard for movies, and increasingly common for recorded music. Two channels can't do justice to a lot of material.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
I'll tell you that there is a major difference in watching Finding Nemo in simple two-speaker stereo and in 5.1 surround.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
I agree. 5.1 is neccessary to develop a true 3D positional feel.
Although 2.1 often does fine for my music needs.
Although 2.1 often does fine for my music needs.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Anyone here ever heard an SACD or DVDAudio disc?
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Mercutio said:
I have but it was only on a two speaker setup. It was at an audio store and the speakers were some really highend Energy towers. The speaker cables cost as much as my whole setup. Sounded great but I would still like to hear a high quality 5.1 SACD on a good setup.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
It is possible to reproduce any sound using a single speaker. It is possible to reproduce any musical sound and full positional information using no more than two speakers, and it is possible to reproduce any sound (got that? - any sound at all) with 100% of the natural positional information by using three speakers.
Anything more than two speakers (or, if you want gimmicks and special "behind the listener" effects, three) is pure, 100%, unadulterated Orangutan shit.
For any given budget, the more speakers, the poorer quality each speaker is, and the worse the phase distortion problems become.
Note that in the above I am treating a single speaker unit as if it were a "speaker". In fact, of course, it usually contains two speakers in order to most accurately cover the full frequency spectrum. These two speakers are placed as close together as possible (ideally, they are concentric) and for the purposes of our discussion can be regarded a sa a single unit.
Note also that quality sound issues from the smallest number of speakers possible, with the smallest possible number of quality-robbing crossovers. Three-way speakers are questionable, four-way speakers are pure, unadulterated wank.
5.1 is complete nonsense. 7.1 is a joke.
Anything more than two speakers (or, if you want gimmicks and special "behind the listener" effects, three) is pure, 100%, unadulterated Orangutan shit.
For any given budget, the more speakers, the poorer quality each speaker is, and the worse the phase distortion problems become.
Note that in the above I am treating a single speaker unit as if it were a "speaker". In fact, of course, it usually contains two speakers in order to most accurately cover the full frequency spectrum. These two speakers are placed as close together as possible (ideally, they are concentric) and for the purposes of our discussion can be regarded a sa a single unit.
Note also that quality sound issues from the smallest number of speakers possible, with the smallest possible number of quality-robbing crossovers. Three-way speakers are questionable, four-way speakers are pure, unadulterated wank.
5.1 is complete nonsense. 7.1 is a joke.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Tannin, I'd be more than happy to be your host for a visit to my living room. We can listen to a disc that was recorded and mastered on an audiophile label, say Telarc or Chesky, for CD and SACD pressings. The audio equipment in my living room cost as much as a decent mid-size Sedan, so it's not like I have cheap stuff (KEF reference speakers, Integra 8.2 - that's its name BTW, not the number of channels - receiver and hand-me-down interconnects from my brother).
If you can honestly listen to the recording in stereo, either as a CD or SACD, and tell me with a straight face it's better than the multichannel recording on the same disc and same hardware, I might believe you. If you've never heard, especially if you've never heard classical music that way, you simply don't know what you're missing.
If you can honestly listen to the recording in stereo, either as a CD or SACD, and tell me with a straight face it's better than the multichannel recording on the same disc and same hardware, I might believe you. If you've never heard, especially if you've never heard classical music that way, you simply don't know what you're missing.
Tea
Storage? I am Storage!
Tannin, please stop trying to pretend that you are still the sharp-tongued angry young man with a gift for clear, rational thinking and exceptional clarity of exposition that you used to be (well, that you say you used to be) and get packing.
(Ahh, I better explain: the three of us - Tannin, Belinda and me - are heading off on a little trip to celebrate my un-incarceration. I, unfortunately, have to sit in the back because I ... er ... have a little difficulty with Tannin's ridiculously tiny car. ....
(You mean because you are too fat and I can't change gears if you sit up front.)
(You stay out of this, Tannin. It wasn't my fault.)
Err ... as I was saying, we have to be at the Belinda house at 10AM. Tannin, we still have to pack, it's a 15-minute drive, and it iz now precisely 9:57. We are late!
(Sorry. Tea. Look, what say you pack while I get into the shower?)
(You mean you haven't even had your shower yet? Gahhh.... Allright - go on, get busy. I'll take care of it.)
Sigh.
Men.
(Ahh, I better explain: the three of us - Tannin, Belinda and me - are heading off on a little trip to celebrate my un-incarceration. I, unfortunately, have to sit in the back because I ... er ... have a little difficulty with Tannin's ridiculously tiny car. ....
(You mean because you are too fat and I can't change gears if you sit up front.)
(You stay out of this, Tannin. It wasn't my fault.)
Err ... as I was saying, we have to be at the Belinda house at 10AM. Tannin, we still have to pack, it's a 15-minute drive, and it iz now precisely 9:57. We are late!
(Sorry. Tea. Look, what say you pack while I get into the shower?)
(You mean you haven't even had your shower yet? Gahhh.... Allright - go on, get busy. I'll take care of it.)
Sigh.
Men.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Tannin said:
Obviously you are going to get a higher quality sound from two speakers worth a combined say $1000, as opposed to 6 speakers and a sub-woofer for a combined $1000. And there is a three dimensionality achievable with two speakers in stereo. But that dimensionality I have found is very dependent on the skill or lack thereof by the recording engineer etc. For music two channel is still good, I haven't heard a DVD-Audio disk to see what high quality mutli-channel is like. But I can tell you that when you listen to the stereo mix of FOTR/Two Towers with front left and right, and then the DTS-ES mix, even with 6 crappy speakers worth a combined $300, there is an impact, an envelopment, and a subtlety that has to be heard to believe.
I've mentioned before that I live next door to an EE in sound thingies - I was speaking to him the other day and he let slip that they are working with a new (very) DSP that allows multi channel sound effects from stereo speakers without using stuff like EAX (an intermediary software layer).
Probably of no use to audiophiles, but interesting from a game perspective as it's basically plug and go.
Probably of no use to audiophiles, but interesting from a game perspective as it's basically plug and go.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
umm.. what do you guys think of those $200-300 5.1 "home theater in a box" type things?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
A start in the right direction. Better than a sharp blow to the head.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
that's what I thought you'd say... but I just want it for TV and DVD's.. maybe music. I'm nothing close to an audiophile and think that the jump from a $500 system to a $1000 one would be wasted on me.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Get the all-in-a-box setup, then you can always upgrade later as the quest for multi-channel nirvana takes hold 