Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'll hold my tongue, but it's probably worthy of comment by someone.
News: Ronald Reagan dead at 93
- Thread starter Mercutio
- Start date
ddrueding
Fixture
comment. :-?
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I posted this on SR so rather than rephrase anything I'll just copy and paste it here verbatim:
It's been over a month since I posted last due to a lack of time and some family issues. Nevertheless, this thread caught my interest because of all eight Presidents I've lived through Reagan was hands down my all time favorite. Like myself in many respects, he was an outsider of the establishment, and as such unafraid to challenge the status quo. I credit Reagan with getting me interested in politics in the first place. Up until that point, it seemed no politicians of the time really bothered to try to change things, and as a result I didn't really care who got elected as it wouldn't make any difference at all. Reagan changed all that. He made the politicians in Washington realize that they couldn't take the tax dollars coming in for granted. He made the people realize that paying high taxes to fund all sorts of dubious programs designed simply to keep politicians in power wasn't a given. More importantly, he seemed truly sincere when he spoke. He actually made you believe that he would do what he said he would. And as a fellow outsider who was truly disgusted with "the system", he appealed to me both intellectually and emotionally.
While undoubtedly the Reagan years will be analyzed to death in the coming weeks, many things stand out in my mind from those days. Of all things, I was deathly afraid of the hair trigger situation between the US and the USSR, or the "evil empire" as Reagan preferred to it. I had read the book "Man's Fate" by Jonathan Schell in college in which likely nuclear scenarios were described in graphic detail. For years afterwards I would have nightmares about this and wake up with my sheets soaking wet. Frankly, I had hoped if it ever came to pass I would be one of the lucky ones who would die instantly when the bombs hit. What would be left afterwards wouldn't be pretty, and we would never recover from it, nor would the planet. And sadly, I saw this course as almost inevitable. The MAD scenario was just that, completely insane. Sooner or later, I thought, there would be some miscommunication, or some underpaid soldier trying to be a hero would do something stupid, and the chain of events that followed would lead inexorably to the end of everything. To me it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when. I personally put the end at sometime between 1990 and 2000. There was a good chance I wouldn't see 30, and 40 was probably out of the question.
Reagan changed all that. He opened my eyes when he talked. He had the confidence that we would not only not be destroyed, but that we would defeat our foe not through open warfare, but by outspending them, and this confidence carried over to the general public. While I still contemplated mankind's demise, I thought that now we at least had a good shot at survival, and we wouldn't have to lose some cities or even hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the process. No, we just put the capitalist machine into action, and there was no way the Soviets could keep up. Of course, there was always the chance they might launch an attack out of desperation when they saw they were destined to lose, but in the end sanity prevailed. Whether with spending or nuclear arms, this was a race they were destined to lose. While Reagan's SDI was (and probably still is) a technical impossibility, it did accomplish its goal of ending the threat of Soviet missiles forever. Sure, nuclear threats still exist today, but even worst case scenarios only result in losing a few cities and maybe tens of millions of lives-a far cry from the 3 billion ghosts an all-out war with the USSR would have produced. And unlike global thermonuclear war we would recover from these scenarios.
There are many other things that stand out in my mind about the Reagan years. While trickle down economics didn't work as hoped, it did at least cement in the public's mind the need to keep tax rates low-if for no other reason than to limit what politicians can spend on pork barrel projects. And there was a renewal of the concept of personal responsibility and a gradual end to the welfare mentality that was wrecking places like New York. While this is still an ongoing process that will take many more years, Reagan can be justifiably credited with starting it when he was governor of California. Prior to Reagan, it was taboo in politics to even talk about welfare reform, let alone do something about it. Indeed, Reagan paved the way for the neoconservative movement, and for many of the politicians who followed. Without Reagan, I dare say, NYC would not have had a Rudy Guiliani to challenge the status quo. While I didn't agree with everything Reagan did, especially cutting student aid, I at least understood his reasons for doing it.
In the final analysis I think we can all credit Reagan with our very existence today, and to a lesser extent with both some of our problems today as well as our advantages. While I've long soured on the concept of totally unregulated capitalism and "trickle-down" economics, I know that dependence on the government can never work. Had Reagan not been in power, we might very well have gone bankrupt ourselves after the USSR fell-not by spending money on weapons, but by spending it on all sorts of ill-fated, ill-conceived social programs. And the extent of government control once these programs were in place would have been straight like a page out of "1984". I think it was Reagan who said that every time the government does something for you, it takes away your right to choose for yourself how you want that same thing done.
While I don't personally believe in an afterlife, I do hope Reagan is now in the "shining city over the hill" he had always talked about. He lived as full a life as anyone could ever hope to.
It's been over a month since I posted last due to a lack of time and some family issues. Nevertheless, this thread caught my interest because of all eight Presidents I've lived through Reagan was hands down my all time favorite. Like myself in many respects, he was an outsider of the establishment, and as such unafraid to challenge the status quo. I credit Reagan with getting me interested in politics in the first place. Up until that point, it seemed no politicians of the time really bothered to try to change things, and as a result I didn't really care who got elected as it wouldn't make any difference at all. Reagan changed all that. He made the politicians in Washington realize that they couldn't take the tax dollars coming in for granted. He made the people realize that paying high taxes to fund all sorts of dubious programs designed simply to keep politicians in power wasn't a given. More importantly, he seemed truly sincere when he spoke. He actually made you believe that he would do what he said he would. And as a fellow outsider who was truly disgusted with "the system", he appealed to me both intellectually and emotionally.
While undoubtedly the Reagan years will be analyzed to death in the coming weeks, many things stand out in my mind from those days. Of all things, I was deathly afraid of the hair trigger situation between the US and the USSR, or the "evil empire" as Reagan preferred to it. I had read the book "Man's Fate" by Jonathan Schell in college in which likely nuclear scenarios were described in graphic detail. For years afterwards I would have nightmares about this and wake up with my sheets soaking wet. Frankly, I had hoped if it ever came to pass I would be one of the lucky ones who would die instantly when the bombs hit. What would be left afterwards wouldn't be pretty, and we would never recover from it, nor would the planet. And sadly, I saw this course as almost inevitable. The MAD scenario was just that, completely insane. Sooner or later, I thought, there would be some miscommunication, or some underpaid soldier trying to be a hero would do something stupid, and the chain of events that followed would lead inexorably to the end of everything. To me it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when. I personally put the end at sometime between 1990 and 2000. There was a good chance I wouldn't see 30, and 40 was probably out of the question.
Reagan changed all that. He opened my eyes when he talked. He had the confidence that we would not only not be destroyed, but that we would defeat our foe not through open warfare, but by outspending them, and this confidence carried over to the general public. While I still contemplated mankind's demise, I thought that now we at least had a good shot at survival, and we wouldn't have to lose some cities or even hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the process. No, we just put the capitalist machine into action, and there was no way the Soviets could keep up. Of course, there was always the chance they might launch an attack out of desperation when they saw they were destined to lose, but in the end sanity prevailed. Whether with spending or nuclear arms, this was a race they were destined to lose. While Reagan's SDI was (and probably still is) a technical impossibility, it did accomplish its goal of ending the threat of Soviet missiles forever. Sure, nuclear threats still exist today, but even worst case scenarios only result in losing a few cities and maybe tens of millions of lives-a far cry from the 3 billion ghosts an all-out war with the USSR would have produced. And unlike global thermonuclear war we would recover from these scenarios.
There are many other things that stand out in my mind about the Reagan years. While trickle down economics didn't work as hoped, it did at least cement in the public's mind the need to keep tax rates low-if for no other reason than to limit what politicians can spend on pork barrel projects. And there was a renewal of the concept of personal responsibility and a gradual end to the welfare mentality that was wrecking places like New York. While this is still an ongoing process that will take many more years, Reagan can be justifiably credited with starting it when he was governor of California. Prior to Reagan, it was taboo in politics to even talk about welfare reform, let alone do something about it. Indeed, Reagan paved the way for the neoconservative movement, and for many of the politicians who followed. Without Reagan, I dare say, NYC would not have had a Rudy Guiliani to challenge the status quo. While I didn't agree with everything Reagan did, especially cutting student aid, I at least understood his reasons for doing it.
In the final analysis I think we can all credit Reagan with our very existence today, and to a lesser extent with both some of our problems today as well as our advantages. While I've long soured on the concept of totally unregulated capitalism and "trickle-down" economics, I know that dependence on the government can never work. Had Reagan not been in power, we might very well have gone bankrupt ourselves after the USSR fell-not by spending money on weapons, but by spending it on all sorts of ill-fated, ill-conceived social programs. And the extent of government control once these programs were in place would have been straight like a page out of "1984". I think it was Reagan who said that every time the government does something for you, it takes away your right to choose for yourself how you want that same thing done.
While I don't personally believe in an afterlife, I do hope Reagan is now in the "shining city over the hill" he had always talked about. He lived as full a life as anyone could ever hope to.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
About damn time.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
No love from me for Reagan. I do not care about his death, except perhaps that I'm glad no one has to pay to maintain him alive anymore since he was Alzei.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Somehow I don't think we'll be seeing people lining up for 5+hours at 3am to see Clinton lying in state.
Fushigi
Storage Is My Life
The USSR would have fallen anyway. I asked a co-worker a couple of days ago. He is from Russia (he immigrated in the late 80s) and he said it was only a matter of time as even without the arms escalation of the 80s they were spending up to 50% of the gov't budget on defense.
The rose colored mist people apply to his presidency is funny. The following is mostly from memory, so it may not be entirely accurate. It's just how I recall that period of my life. My own misted view, I suppose.
- The Reagan admin destroyed federal support for education. They basically dumped it on the states, which are of course now in budget crisis. Even now my local school district gets under 1.5% of it's funding from the fed gov't. If I had to guess, I think my subdivision alone (~600 homes) contributes more via property taxes to the schools than the feds do.
- The National Endowment for the Arts was slashed; practically destroyed.
- NASA's projects were severely scaled back right when the shuttle had maximum good will from the people.
- The Department of the Interior failed to protect & conserve national park land.
- Trickle down did not (and never will) work. It caused a recession that took most of the 90s to resolve (no, I'm not crediting the Clinton admin).
- How many manufacturing jobs left the USA in the 80s?
- One word: Deficit.
+ He did rise to the occasion and fire the ATCs. Good move overall, although some of the ATC's gripes were legit.
+ Jelly Belly became a household name.
OK, flame away...
The rose colored mist people apply to his presidency is funny. The following is mostly from memory, so it may not be entirely accurate. It's just how I recall that period of my life. My own misted view, I suppose.
- The Reagan admin destroyed federal support for education. They basically dumped it on the states, which are of course now in budget crisis. Even now my local school district gets under 1.5% of it's funding from the fed gov't. If I had to guess, I think my subdivision alone (~600 homes) contributes more via property taxes to the schools than the feds do.
- The National Endowment for the Arts was slashed; practically destroyed.
- NASA's projects were severely scaled back right when the shuttle had maximum good will from the people.
- The Department of the Interior failed to protect & conserve national park land.
- Trickle down did not (and never will) work. It caused a recession that took most of the 90s to resolve (no, I'm not crediting the Clinton admin).
- How many manufacturing jobs left the USA in the 80s?
- One word: Deficit.
+ He did rise to the occasion and fire the ATCs. Good move overall, although some of the ATC's gripes were legit.
+ Jelly Belly became a household name.
OK, flame away...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'll say something nice: He was funny when he wanted to be.
However, Reagan, a man of no great intellect, also had a habit of wandering "off message" and into realms that really made him look, let's face it, bad.
I suspect this is at least part of the reason GWB's handlers don't ever let him talk. That and the fact that literally every fourth word out of his mouth, when not using a teleprompter, is "Um" or "Uh" (he does like to mix it up).
However, Reagan, a man of no great intellect, also had a habit of wandering "off message" and into realms that really made him look, let's face it, bad.
I suspect this is at least part of the reason GWB's handlers don't ever let him talk. That and the fact that literally every fourth word out of his mouth, when not using a teleprompter, is "Um" or "Uh" (he does like to mix it up).
JSF
What is this storage?
Of all the praises heaped upon President Reagan in Congress, here is one by Senator Henry Hyde which I find particularly eloquent:
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE h3830 June 9, 2004
Mourning The Passing of President Ronald Reagan
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. RADANOVICH). … The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California (Mr. COX).
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), the Land of Lincoln and the birthplace of Ronald Reagan, and the chairman of the Committee on International Relations.
Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this time. I have given much thought to what I might usefully contribute to the chorus of those thousands who will be called upon or be moved to voice their respect and their sadness at the death of President Reagan. His accomplishments will be rightly celebrated, his humanity and character justly praised, his passing mourned in words of elegance and emotion. How large a stone can one hope to add to this towering mountain?
President Reagan was the oldest person to be elected President in our history, and this is proof that you get the sweetest music from the oldest violins. In the play Camelot, King Arthur says, ‘‘We are all of us tiny drops in a vast ocean, but some of them sparkle.’’ President Reagan was never a tiny drop in a vast ocean, but he did indeed sparkle.
By his life and service he put the ‘‘sacred’’ back in honor. Not through exhortation, but by example, Reagan’s gentle leadership reminded a country disoriented by doubt of its enduring beliefs. In this, his guiding principle was that of George Washington’s, ‘‘Let us raise a standard in which the wise and honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God.’’
He was a rare and subtly powerful speaker, able to instill in others a confident belief in their own capacities and goodness. And he could also inspire oppressed millions to demolish empires. His eloquence reminds me of the story of ancient Greeks who, when Pericles spoke, said, ‘‘How well he speaks.’’ But when Demosthenes spoke, they said, ‘‘Let us march.’’
Among his many virtues was his defense of the powerless unborn. President Reagan understood that the precious gift of life was not confined to the privileged, the planned, and the perfect. Some have said that the most fearful aspect of dying is the terrible aloneness you must endure at the particular judgment; no advocate, no relative, no spouse, no child, just you, your sins and God.
But I am sure President Reagan is not alone. I believe the silence was broken by the voices of thousands of little children, voices that were never heard in this world but are heard in the next, all pleading, ‘‘Dear Lord, spare him, for he loved us very much.’’ And then I can imagine Mr. Reagan heard a gentle voice, ‘‘Come, beloved of my father, and enter the kingdom which has been prepared for you since the beginning of time.’’
Mr. President, ‘‘The shadows have lengthened, evening has come, and the busy world is hushed. The fever of life is over, and your work is done. May God in his mercy give you a safe lodging and a holy rest and peace at the last.’’
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE h3830 June 9, 2004
Mourning The Passing of President Ronald Reagan
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. RADANOVICH). … The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California (Mr. COX).
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), the Land of Lincoln and the birthplace of Ronald Reagan, and the chairman of the Committee on International Relations.
Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this time. I have given much thought to what I might usefully contribute to the chorus of those thousands who will be called upon or be moved to voice their respect and their sadness at the death of President Reagan. His accomplishments will be rightly celebrated, his humanity and character justly praised, his passing mourned in words of elegance and emotion. How large a stone can one hope to add to this towering mountain?
President Reagan was the oldest person to be elected President in our history, and this is proof that you get the sweetest music from the oldest violins. In the play Camelot, King Arthur says, ‘‘We are all of us tiny drops in a vast ocean, but some of them sparkle.’’ President Reagan was never a tiny drop in a vast ocean, but he did indeed sparkle.
By his life and service he put the ‘‘sacred’’ back in honor. Not through exhortation, but by example, Reagan’s gentle leadership reminded a country disoriented by doubt of its enduring beliefs. In this, his guiding principle was that of George Washington’s, ‘‘Let us raise a standard in which the wise and honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God.’’
He was a rare and subtly powerful speaker, able to instill in others a confident belief in their own capacities and goodness. And he could also inspire oppressed millions to demolish empires. His eloquence reminds me of the story of ancient Greeks who, when Pericles spoke, said, ‘‘How well he speaks.’’ But when Demosthenes spoke, they said, ‘‘Let us march.’’
Among his many virtues was his defense of the powerless unborn. President Reagan understood that the precious gift of life was not confined to the privileged, the planned, and the perfect. Some have said that the most fearful aspect of dying is the terrible aloneness you must endure at the particular judgment; no advocate, no relative, no spouse, no child, just you, your sins and God.
But I am sure President Reagan is not alone. I believe the silence was broken by the voices of thousands of little children, voices that were never heard in this world but are heard in the next, all pleading, ‘‘Dear Lord, spare him, for he loved us very much.’’ And then I can imagine Mr. Reagan heard a gentle voice, ‘‘Come, beloved of my father, and enter the kingdom which has been prepared for you since the beginning of time.’’
Mr. President, ‘‘The shadows have lengthened, evening has come, and the busy world is hushed. The fever of life is over, and your work is done. May God in his mercy give you a safe lodging and a holy rest and peace at the last.’’
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
Fushigi said:
It's not the deficit that's problematic; it's the national debt. Reagan took us from billions to trillions.
That is a lasting mark that our children, our children's children, and our children's children's children will remember.