NEWZ: Samsung's Big Plans For Flash-Based Hard Drives

[.Nut]

• 
  Samsung has big plans for flash-based drives
  Samsung champions solid-state memory as replacement to hard-disk drives in laptops
  
  
  GIHEUNG, SOUTH KOREA - Samsung Electronics Co. hopes that falling prices for flash memory chips will mean solid-state memory can eventually replace hard-disk drives in laptop computers and other devices...
  
  "This will be big once people enjoy how much faster and convenient it is to use solid-state disks rather than hard-disk drives," Hwang said. "We're starting with 16GB and expanding to 100GB in a couple of years..."

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/06/24/HNsamsungplans_1.html?source=NLC-TB2005-06-24

 

[mubs]

Apart from price, isn't there another major problem? The limited number of writes to Flash?

 

[ddrueding]

Considering the newer flash storage devices are able to distribute writes evenly accross the media, lifetimes are being lengthened substantially. On a storage device this large I can only imagine that distributing the writes would make it a non-issue for the average user.

 

[i]

I don't think it's even relevant to the new stuff.

I don't think the limited number of writes has ever been a documented real-world problem with flash memory.

I used to be on a few mailing lists for tiny systems like the ones from Soekris. They were mostly populated by people running remote data-loggers, zero-maintenance computers mounted on 80 foot antenna towers, swamps, and so forth. Real hard-wearing, non-stop devices. Any time someone asked if going with flash media instead of a laptop drive was going to cause problems, there would be a flurry of replies from people stating how many years their devices had been running, and how none of them had run into this legendary "limited number of writes" issue. Sure, none of them disputed that flash memory wears out, but none of them -- in those conditions where these things were left to run for years without a part swap-out -- had ever actually run into the supposed limit.

And you know what? Having looked in the past I've never ... never ... found a review or study online that documented this type of failure. Maybe someone here knows different. I'd like to see some evidence.

It's an urban legend in my book. Based on a real limit, sure, but one in practice nobody actually runs into.

My only fear is that flash will someday become like floppy disks. Remember the ones from back in the 1980's? They were so well engineered to have such resiliency that you could have a few still today in perfectly good shape. But then they became cheap and ubiquitous, and no manufacturer did anything but turn out the lowest quality product they could get away with. Maybe in 10 years time flash memory will be like that. But for now, I'm almost willing to say it's a bogus concern.

 

[Tannin]

My only fear is that flash will someday become like floppy disks. Remember the ones from back in the 1980's? They were so well engineered to have such resiliency that you could have a few still today in perfectly good shape. But then they became cheap and ubiquitous, and no manufacturer did anything but turn out the lowest quality product they could get away with. Maybe in 10 years time flash memory will be like that. But for now, I'm almost willing to say it's a bogus concern.

Tried out cheap USB flash drives lately? It's real. It's here. They are crap. I don't know if there are name-brand ones that are actually reliable, but some (all?) of the no-name ones we've seen have the data go AWOL if you look at it sideways. When people ask me about flash sticks for backup now, I tell them to spend the 30c and burn a CD, 'cause otherwise they are flirting with disaster.

Maybe there are reliable brands of USB flash drive around. If so, please tell me which they are and I'll switch to them right away.

At the moment, I'm basically not selling USB sticks because the failure rate has been horrendous and I'm tired of replacing the damn things under warranty. Not to mention tired of buying them for $100 each and selling them for $50 each, then buying more stock at $40 only to find that the bloody price has gone down yet again and now they are only worth $25.

Bring back the floppy disc!

PS: on the main part of your post, i, thankyou. Interesting and thought-provoking reading.

 

[Will Rickards]

Kingston Data Traveler is good, I have one.

 

[CityK]

There was this post on SR a while back... I've never evaluated the merit ... seemed a little incohesive to me on a quick scan

 

[blakerwry]

IF you would buy that brand for youer camera or PC, chances are you could use it in your USB stick reliably... Lexar, sandisk...

 

[sechs]

Doesn't flash have horribly bad throughput (especially on write)?

 

[Fushigi]

So, has anyone tried Samsung's 250GB disks yet? ZipZoomFly has the PATA version for $118 shipped.

 

[ddrueding]

250 isn't big enough anymore...I need at least 300-400GB per drive.

 

[Fushigi]

In general I agree, but for a basic PC (like my wife's with the now-dead SCSI drive) this seems nice. Only 2 platters so heat shouldn't be much of an issue. Probably quiet too.

 

[Mercutio]

250 isn't big enough anymore...I need at least 300-400GB per drive.

250s are fine.

In groups of four or more.

 

[mubs]

I must be the weird one here. I have a total of 280 GB of space, and 170 GB of that is free. My consumption is going up slowly but steadily only because of my digital camera.

 

[Fushigi]

Microcenter had it for just $2 more than ZZF so I picked one up on my way home. It's formatting now. XPPro with SP2 doesn't seem to have any problem formatting a drive >137GB.

 

[Mercutio]

I have a total of 280 GB of space, and 170 GB of that is free.

I don't understand that sentence. Free space?
So, like, you haven't formatted it yet?

 

[mubs]

Free space as in formatted, but not used to store anything.

I have 1 x 160 GB and 1 x 120 GB. All of it is formatted. I'm using only 110 GB.

Of that 110 GB, 9 GB is backup of critical data from one disk to the other. So I'm actually using only 101 GB. That includes OS, all programs, 1.0 GB of swap space, 4.3 GB of DVD/CD images (Encarta & MS Streets & Trips), 4.3 GB of VMWare virtual machines, 9 GB of downloaded programs and crap, and the rest is my data and digital pics.

 

[Mercutio]

Can I rent it, or something?

 

[mubs]

NO! It's mine! All mine!

 

[LOST6200]

250 isn't big enough anymore...I need at least 300-400GB per drive.

That is exactly how I feel. Yet my one small drive, a 36GB 15K.3, is only partitioned as a 9.5 GB drive. The rest is truly free.

 

[Fushigi]

250 isn't big enough anymore...I need at least 300-400GB per drive.

Considering she hadn't had any problems with space on the 36GB drive that just died, I think 250GB is plenty.

XP is installed, as is FireFox and some basic apps. I'll do Office, AV, etc. tomorrow. At least the thing is functional right now.

 

[LOST6200]

Free space as in formatted, but not used to store anything.

I have 1 x 160 GB and 1 x 120 GB. All of it is formatted. I'm using only 110 GB.

Of that 110 GB, 9 GB is backup of critical data from one disk to the other.

So is the rest not backed up at all?

 

[mubs]

The critical stuff from my data drive is backed up to the other hard drive every night, and periodically to DVD (interval varies; I'm past due now).

Some of the stuff, like downloaded programs, is backed up once in a while to DVD. The OS/prgrams partition is periodically imaged to the other drive.

I really only care about the "critical stuff". Everything else is either reproducible or no biggie if lost.

Like I said, the only reason my usage is growing is from digital pics. I maintain the originals, plus editied versions. Once I open the originals for editing, they are stored back as TIFF. Adds up quick.

I'm bashing on wood as I say this, but in the 15 years I've been using PCs, I've never had a drive fail on me, yet. Conner, Western Digital (the 120 GB has been running for 3 years and still is), Maxtor, IBM, Seagate (the 160 GB, now 1 year old). Have never owned a SATA, or Hibachi or Samsung. When I build a new box, it'll be with SATA Hibachi or Samsung drives.