Norton System Works Pro 2001 and W2K SP4

[CityK]

So last Sunday, I has a friend who calls me up and says "I got a problem"

I says, "friend, what seems to be your problem"

Friend says (in a pathetic sobbingly voice that a five year old would make) "My Speed disk don't work"

"Your Speed Disk don't work! Sweet Jebus mother of mercy! I'll be right over"
-----
Turns out that when they upgraded their W2K installation to SP4, a certain program (maybe more?) from NSW Pro 2001 declines to work anymore. Specifically, your greeted with the following message:

"Speed Disk is designed to run with Windows 2000 and Windows NT 4.0, service pack 3 or later. It will not run on Windows NT 3.51."

Now being the enterprising individual that I am, I take a look for some sort of update from the (lousy programmers at) Symantec Web site. Squat. Then I, being mightly resourceful like, check Symantec's (crappy) knowledge base. Low'n'behold, I finds me a document or two. This one:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nunt.nsf/docid/2002082611125409

seems to hit the nail on the head. However, the recommended solution does not apply for SP4 (it did, however, apply to prior service pack upgrades). Simply, you don't get the sample warning message they showed. Instead, you just get the error message I wrote above. That's it. Nothing else. Dog out of luck.

So, knowing that Groltz had recently linked to SP4 related problems (http://www.storageforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2352), I proceeded to breeze through those and indeed noticed a reference to DSDS (Disfunctional Speed Disk Syndrome).

Next, I typed the exact error message into google and, singing sweet praises to the almighty, I finds out for me self, that there others experiencing the same thing: http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win2000/t1057173710

Besides this google link, (as the source supplied by Groltz implied) other links perported that Speed disk from NSW 2003 had also encountered that very same problem. Fortunate for them, it has since been corrected by Symantec. But no luck for 2001.

Following the situation up, I noticed that Symantec has an updated message about it (as of July 28th) for NSW2001 & W2K SP4:

link

Strangely, in this revised document, they have omitted the error message as recieved on my friends machine. They suggest going to Live Update
and to click the cancel button...they do, however, comfort you with the statement that "Norton SystemWorks 2003 has no known compatibility problems with Windows 2000 Service Pack 4".

Now I haven't had a chance to get my friend to retry live update, but I get a sneaky suspicion that there ain't no update. In fact, I kinda get that sneaky suspicion that Symantec is trying to funnel the heard off to Business Depot for a shinny brand new copy of NSW2003....which itself will become inoperable in about a year and a half from now when everyone rushes out for Longhorn SP1 or something....moo, I say mooooooooooooo (that's noises from the herd of cattle your hearing)

CK

 

[timwhit]

Planned obsolescence is a great thing isn’t it? In cases like this it is most likely time to break out Kazaa Lite and see what you can find for a little better price.

 

[Buck]

 

[Will Rickards WT]

In defence of symantec (I'm hearing screams of heretic already), changing a service pack could adversely affect speed disks operation. However, there should be some way that is dead simple and can be performed by the user for it to support another service pack level.

I actually have the aforementioned software but haven't used it in over a year (since I switched to 4K cluster sizes and stopped partitioning so much).

 

[Pradeep]

Symantec stuff often seems to break after OS upgrades/service packs. And their very irritating refusal to work with many Win Server products is a real PITA.

 

[e_dawg]

I use NSW2001 and upgraded my W2k to SP4. SpeedDisk works just fine. I have been getting that error message from SpeedDisk since SP1. Don't worry about it. Click continue or whatever the button is called and enjoy SpeedDisk.

 

[e_dawg]

Whoops. Check that. It seems that I was wrong. Must have run SpeedDisk just before I installed SP4. (did all my computer maintenance a few weeks ago at the same time... defrag, service packs, patches, etc.)

-----------------

Forget about SpeedDisk. Here's e_dawg's new defrag system:

1. Download the free defragger "contig" from www.sysinternals.com.

2. Make a copy of contig.exe and put it into your Local Settings directory (look in \Documents and Settings\Profile Name (i.e., whatever you log in as)\ ).

3. Make a batch file there with the following lines:

contig.exe -v -s *.*
pause

4. Make a shortcut of the batch file and place it on your desktop so you can run it at your leisure; alternatively, you can use Task Manager to run it for you at specified intervals.

Why defrag your profile directory like this on a regular basis? The files within are the most frequently fragmented ones on your HD (esp. if you run IE and Outlook). Your temp files, browser cache (if you use IE based browsers), and Outlook PST files are stored there -- all frequently modified, created, deleted, and resized files.

How to get the Windows Disk Defragmenter working again

Run: dfrg.msc to access the Windows Disk Defragmenter now that SpeedDisk doesn't work anymore (and yet it continues to be associated with the Disk Defragmenter shortcut in the Start menu and also in the Tools tab of your Disk Properties).

 

[e_dawg]

Task Manager = Task Scheduler (or whatever that thing is in Windows that automatically runs stuff for you)

For those of you who may not know how to create a batch file, the easiest way to do so is to create a new file in notepad, type those lines in, and save it as a .bat file with the filename enclosed in quotes. e.g., "defrag.bat"

Or, at the command line,

copy con defrag.bat
contig.exe -v -s *.*
pause

Press Ctrl+Z and hit Return to save and exit.

 

[The JoJo]

In defence of symantec (I'm hearing screams of heretic already), ....

:boom:


Sorry, I just have an enormous amount of experience, bad one, from their products... :wink: (similar to the problem first posted...)

 

[.Nut]

How to get the Windows Disk Defragmenter working again

Run: dfrg.msc to access the Windows Disk Defragmenter now that SpeedDisk doesn't work anymore...

The file DFRG.MSC (the Windows DeFrag executable) is located in C:\WINNT\system32.

I know this well because I've been having to tell people this -- seemingly on a regular basis -- who've asked me about "getting back" their Windows 2000 DeFrag after a bad bout with Norton SystemWerks.

 

[e_dawg]

Why not just Run: dfrg.msc instead of navigating to your System32 directory?

Nitpick: is dfrg.msc not a Management Console snap-in? You refer to it as an executable... I believe dfrg.msc calls the dfrgfat.exe and dfrgntfs.exe executable as needed to defrag your volume based on the filesystem it was formatted with.

 

[CityK]

Well, I paid a (what should have been a brief) visit to my friend to see if anything had changed. Here's the current status:

LiveUpdate still does not provide a patch.

I note (once again) that this Symantec document, that I had linked above, continues to evolve. The latest revision gives it a July 31 date. I don't see a difference between it and the last incarnation, meaning its still just as useless in regards to the current situation. Yet, perhaps there is hope.

Clicking around in the Speed Disk directory, I looked through the sdnt.hlp file. In it, it states that

You can run Norton Speed Disk from the command line, either from a console window, from a DOS window, or by clicking Run from the Start menu and typing the following command. These options override any you have previously selected in Norton Speed Disk. The options can be entered in any order. 
Use the following syntax:
sdntc –drive=<drive letter>: 
Example: sdntc –drive=c:

-DRIVE=	Specifies the drives to be optimized. 
-L	Run LiveUpdate to update Norton Speed Disk program files.

Copyright (c) 2000 Symantec Corp.

End result is a no go -> you get the same error message as recieved before.

Checking the directory some more, I notice another executable -> sdntrun.exe. Nothing in the hlp file about it, but when skimming through the Speed Disk Manual, I come across this:

How can I perform Norton Speed Disk operations from the command
line? (Enterprise edition only)
The Sdntrun.exe command is available for command-line optimization.

 On the command line, enter Sdntrun.exe followed by the drive letters
that you want to optimize.
For example, “SDNTRUN.EXE D: E:” runs Norton Speed Disk on drives
D and E.

Interesting I says. So I skip on over to the cmd prompt and give it a whirl. Only, I got talking while typing and ended up just typing in sdntrun and hitting enter. The actuator/read heads on the HDD immediately started to thrash around [Troy McClure] like a couple of starved tiger sharks in a wadding pool, Jimmy [/Troy McClure].

Not being quite certain what destructive powers I had just unleashed upon my friends system, I sat it out. Gradually, the noise began to diminish (I suppose as the heads moved across the disk to the inner partitions). And finally, after a considerable duration the HDD activitiy came to an end (Note: my intended "brief" visit had already extended itself into almost 2 hours. Computers :x ). I guess that by default, without any arguments appended, sdntrun goes ahead and defrags the whole drive. After checking that all was well, and being a sucker for punishment, I decided to test sdntrun out with an argument ( c: ). It ran, maybe for 7 minutes, and then stopped - Note that this is considerably longer than what it normally takes (i.e. running the windows Speeddisk GUI) to defrag a freshly defragged partition. Hmm.

So there you have it. It seems to take forever running it at the cmd prompt. Plus you have no progression status or indication at the end that it has succeeded in doing anything. But the service is still running so I guess it can coordinate things with it, but who knows (hey, we're talking about Symantec here ).

Thank you e_dawg for the systernals suggestion. I personally already run their pagedeframenter on my own system. I will look into your suggestion as an alternative for my friends computer if they are still unhappy with Speed Disk.

How to get the Windows Disk Defragmenter working again

Run: dfrg.msc to access the Windows Disk Defragmenter now that SpeedDisk doesn't work anymore (and yet it continues to be associated with the Disk Defragmenter shortcut in the Start menu and also in the Tools tab of your Disk Properties).

Or you can just uninstall Speed Disk, and its back to status quo with the built in O&O lite defragger.

CK

 

[Stereodude]

Have you tried running live update? I know I've gotten updates from Symantec on older versions of speedisk that fixed the SP breakage.

 

[Stereodude]

Have you tried running live update? I know I've gotten updates from Symantec on older versions of speedisk that fixed the SP breakage.

I guess I didn't read closely enough the first time. You said you tried it.

 

[e_dawg]

Interesting find, CityK. I shall try it sometime.

As for the built-in Windows Disk Defragementer, surely you meant it was an adaptation of Executive Software's Diskeeper Lite, as opposed to "O&O lite"?

 

[Santilli]

WHY, if you have a MSFT defrager in 2000, would you ever put anything from symantec on your computer?

They pull the same crap with macs. Give them no credit, they learned it from MSFT, who makes MSFT Office incompatible with core extensions, like OTransport, in the mac os...

s

If you steal from me once, shame on you. If you steal twice, or more, i.e. symantec, shame on me...

 

[CityK]

As for the built-in Windows Disk Defragementer, surely you meant it was an adaptation of Executive Software's Diskeeper Lite, as opposed to "O&O lite"?

I categorically deny ever mentioning O&O lite. In fact, I did not inhale, nor did I ever have sexual relations with that woman. Besides, I have no recollection of that matter.

WHY, if you have a MSFT defrager in 2000, would you ever put anything from symantec on your computer?

While I largely agree with the spirit of your letter, I do find practical argument against it:

- Most users who end up buying and installing a Symantec product are largely unaware of the bloat and deficencies associated with their software purchase. Most of them have been told by a friend who, in turn, has been told by a friend, and so forth, that you need this or that and it will make your computer better.... my (computerly) clueless friend stands as an example.

- I'm personally a little skeptical about the capabilities of the built in defragger in W2K

- Norton System Works Pro, IMO comes bundled with 3 useful utilities: Ghost, AntiVirus, Speed Disk. The key is to just grab the necessary files off the installation CD and to install those programs seperately from the HDD, as opposed to running the NSW install routine which ends up polluting your system with a bunch of useless crap.

I personally bought NSW Pro 2003 package because
a) the full NTFS functionality of Ghost. The 900K DOS program alone was worth the vast majority of the purchase price ... and the hassle of waiting for the postman to finally deliver my MIR cheque.
b) I need some windows based AV, and NAV is good enough for the bill - despite the fact that users can have installation and/or uninstall issues with NAV, and the fact that it probably isnt the best anti virili program out there.
c) SpeedDisk is decent enough to round out the deal.

CK

 

[e_dawg]

Yep. NSW Pro delivers good value for a utility, especially when you have a MIR exactly for those components that you mentioned.

I would even go so far as to say that I consider the 2001 version of those components best-of-breed (can't speak for the later versions). Speed Disk is definitely up there with the other defraggers -- see the Which Defragger FAQ. NAV has been excellent (haven't noticed any system slowdown like I had when I ran NAV Corporate). And Ghost, well, it's the de facto imaging program.

 

[CityK]

Although written for previous service packs, this Microsoft Knowledge Base Article - 279792 seems to solve the problem.

Maybe useful for other software that stops functioning after applying a SP.

 

[Tea]

Not to disagree with E_Dawg, but ... well ... to disagree with E_Dawg ....

Symantec are dreadful! Aside from being Microsoft bum-chums and the only company in the world of any note that regularly and persistently gives evidence saying what nice people Microsoft are whenever they get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, their products are, not to put too fine a point on it, crap.

NAV is effective but by far the worst all-round system stuffer-upper. Compare the number of software conflict problems we see generated by PC-cillan (near enough to none as makes no difference) vs NAV (lots). McAffee would run it a close second, though. Still, I don't mind installing NAV on many of our systems, but only because we get it for nothing. PC-cilan eats it. So does Vet. And probably quite a few others.

Ghost ... well, they bought that in from a third party. 'Nuff said.

Speeddisk? Who cares about a defragger when to install it you have to install an incredible collection of poxy, overblown, all-show and no-go other crud. Every time I see a sick computer with that stupid, screen-hogging, RAM-destroying Norton System Doctor control panel on it, I uninstall the damn thing - and one time out of two, that particular computer ain't sick any more. It stops crashing, runs heaps faster, and I get Tannin to deliver his #7 "How not to bugger up your computer" lecture.

Err ... shall I go on?

Perhaps not. But this is probably a good place to mention that if you ever suddenly need to find a computer that is really, really stuffed up, one with 117 tasks running on start up, three different anti-virus programs running (none of them up to date), moronic sound effects on absolutely everything, zooming desktops, Gator, Kazaa, BonzoBuddy, RealPlayer, Quickslime, Internet Assistant, Download Accellerator, MSN Messenger, ICQ, Netscape Messenger, and 17 other useless pop-ups all running at once, and as much other assorted spyware as James Bond never dreamed of .... just ring around looking for a machine with Norton System Works installed.

 

[Tannin]

Please excuse Tea. I think she's having a bad day.

 

[Howell]

Please excuse Tea. I think she's having a bad day.

Tannin you need to train Tea how to read product manuals. It's usually not a software problem when it comes to Symantec (aside from System Doctor) but instead, a loose nut on the keyboard. Start there for a diagnosis.

 

[Handruin]

I believe speed disk was made in part to offset the performance hit that norton system works entails. It's not a fair trade off.

 

[CityK]

Speeddisk? Who cares about a defragger when to install it you have to install an incredible collection of poxy, overblown, all-show and no-go other crud. Every time I see a sick computer with that stupid, screen-hogging, RAM-destroying Norton System Doctor control panel on it, I uninstall the damn thing - and one time out of two, that particular computer ain't sick any more. It stops crashing, runs heaps faster, and I get Tannin to deliver his #7 "How not to bugger up your computer" lecture.

Indeed, but as

Norton System Works Pro, IMO comes bundled with 3 useful utilities: Ghost, AntiVirus, Speed Disk. The key is to just grab the necessary files off the installation CD and to install those programs seperately from the HDD, as opposed to running the NSW install routine which ends up polluting your system with a bunch of useless crap.

 

[Tea]

You mean you can just install (e.g.) the Norton Disc Doctor and nothing else?

Why didn't you say so before - like 5 years ago? I tried doing that from the install routine once, figured out it wasn't possible, and didn't look any further after that.

That's the trouble with being an ape - short attention span.

 

[CityK]

You mean you can just install (e.g.) the Norton Disc Doctor and nothing else?

For the most part, yes. Just Browse the NSW CD. You'll find that almost everything has its own directory, with its own install or setup executable. Just copy the files off the CD to the HDD, and then run the setup file. Bada-bing, Bada-boom -> You get what you want without any of the useless "Thermal Nuclear Detection Probe" like Symantec utilities.

 

[Handruin]

Damn...whish I new that too. It would have been nice if Norton allowed the user to select individual components.

 

[Buck]

Why even bother with all of those utilities? Use NOD32 as your anti-virus software and let 2000 or XP defrag themselves.

 

[Handruin]

Right now, that's how I have it. (Minus the NOD32) I remember reading that speed disk can optimize the location of the swap file, so I wanted to give it a try. All the other utilities in system works don't interest me.

I hate running anything in memory except small utilities like trillian or my CPU temperature monitor. I generally underutilize my machine with all those nifty tools people like to install. The majority of them seem like clutter.

I know a few people here have given NOD32 decent praise, is it really worth switching over to?

 

[Howell]

You mean you can just install (e.g.) the Norton Disc Doctor and nothing else?

For the most part, yes. Just Browse the NSW CD. You'll find that almost everything has its own directory, with its own install or setup executable. Just copy the files off the CD to the HDD, and then run the setup file. Bada-bing, Bada-boom -> You get what you want without any of the useless "Thermal Nuclear Detection Probe" like Symantec utilities.

Or, for the version I have (SW '01 I think), just do a custom install and select only the components you want. You will get a SW wrapper-exe configuration-contol-panel type thing but it only runs when you start it. I only have Ghost and NAV installed.

 

[Buck]

I know a few people here have given NOD32 decent praise, is it really worth switching over to?

Through my experience it has been worth it. I've had several customers with nasty virus/worm/trojan infections with NAV and MCSHIELD running and up to date. Ironically, not only were critical system files infected, but so was their anti-virus software. NOD32 is not better because it is cheap (it's not, $35.00 for a single user license and $27.00 for each year there after), but it works really well and doesn't seem as intrusive on the computer systems resources. In case anybody is interested, their site is: www.esetsoftware.com

 

[Mercutio]

The next version of Windows will almost certainly have antivirus software anyway.

 

[Buck]

The next version of Windows will almost certainly have antivirus software anyway.

That is frightening. If they can't get their other software right, what will become of their anti-virus endevours?

 

[Mercutio]

Because they bought a package that already works?

 

[Buck]

Because they bought a package that already works?

They've purchased or managed to acquire many software packages that worked, but in the end they're just not the same.

 

[Mercutio]

Don't I know it. All we can really do is hope the next one will be better. I'm not exactly optimistic either.

 

[Tea]

One thing I forgot to mention before - and that was to grive credit where it's due. (I meant to put this in my rant-and-vomit-all-over-Symantec post, but I forgot.) (Short attention span.)

Of all the freely-downloadable anti-virus tools around (at least all the ones that I know of), Symantec have the most and quite possibly the best. I don't much like their full-size Antivirus product (though it is OK at a pinch), but I really appreciate their free tools.

There. I've said something nice about Symantec.

We now resume our scheduled programming.

 

[Mercutio]

I've had Housecall pick up stuff that other scanners have missed. Plus, it actually cleans, for free. Last I looked, McAfee and Symantec's wouldn't do that.

Another weird thing I noticed is this: The machines that I manage for the training company all run Symantec AV Corporate. I have three Dell notebooks in the front office that have Norton AV.

I have a Symantec AV Server on site.

Sometimes the Norton AV clients get updates (direct from Liveupdate) that the Symantec clients (my local server, which downloads updates for a lot of different Symantec products) don't.

Last time I noticed this was, I think, th 5th of September. SAV got an update on the 3rd. NAV had an update on the 5th. It was strange enough that I went to make sure updates had been pushed out that day.

 

[Tea]

Would one of the mods mind fixing the thread width, BTW? Even at fairly high-res (1180, I think) it's a bit of a pain to horizontal scroll all the time, and it's a good thread.

 

[Howell]

The next version of Windows will almost certainly have antivirus software anyway.

http://news.com.com/2100-1046-1015096.html?tag=nl

PS, If folks won't install security patches, why would they install virus updates.