Really, really stupid error messages of our time

Tea

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I clicked MY COMPUTER

I clicked CONTROL PANEL

I clicked ADD/REMOVE PROGRAMS

I clicked OUTLOOK EXPRESS 6

I clicked REMOVE

"Are you sure you want to completely remove the selected application and all of its components?" I clicked YES

"Warning: removing Microsoft Outlook Express 6 may mean that you are unable to use Outlook. Are you sure?"

I'm still laughing.
 

time

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It's either:
a) part of their relentless dumbing down :stpd:

or
b) they really don't want you to remove it. :boom:
 

Buck

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Worse would be the person that stops and thinks about the consequences, panicking in their haste, wondering if they're making a mistake!
 

P5-133XL

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Don't forget that Outlook Express and Outlook are two different programs. Perhaps MS is telling you that if you remove one it will break the other and that would be unexpected and worth a warning. Note, to my knowledge removing OE6 does not break Outlook: But then I haven't tried it either.
 

Handruin

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P5-133XL said:
Don't forget that Outlook Express and Outlook are two different programs. Perhaps MS is telling you that if you remove one it will break the other and that would be unexpected and worth a warning. Note, to my knowledge removing OE6 does not break Outlook: But then I haven't tried it either.

I've tried...it works fine. :) I removed OE6 from my XP box after the service pack 1 update which allows for removale of that component. I'll double check when I get home, but I'm confident I removed OE6...and I have outlook 2000 on my box.
 

SteveC

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I get this error message everytime I cold boot:


Keyboard error or no keyboard present

Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter SETUP
 

Mercutio

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My personal favorite is a Microsoft Visual Basic 6 (the IDE) Error:

"This error should not have occurred." in a modal "OK" box.

I tried to take a screenshot of it but when I clicked OK, the machine bluescreened.
 

SteveC

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P5-133XL said:
Don't forget that Outlook Express and Outlook are two different programs. Perhaps MS is telling you that if you remove one it will break the other and that would be unexpected and worth a warning. Note, to my knowledge removing OE6 does not break Outlook: But then I haven't tried it either.

Outlook uses OE for newsgroups. It probably will work fine as long as you don't try to read any newsgroups with Outlook (who does anyway?).

Steve
 

Tea

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I should mention that the reason I was removing Outlook Express 6 (and any orher versions of Outlook that happened to be on that machine) was because of the current virus epedimec ("Bugbear" is it? whatever). We have been swamped in virus-removal jobs this week, and every single one has been running Outlook. Not one single non-Outlook user has been infected.
 

Tannin

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Tea, Buck knows that there are lots and lots of email clients, all of which are more secure than Outlook. ("More secure than Outlook? As the Grammar Police would say, that's like being more visually talented than Ray Charles. Whatever.) What he wanted to know whas which one is the best?

I'd vote for PMMail, but Incredimail (which I have never used) seems to be getting a lot of praise lately, and the old steam-driven Netscape Messenger is free, secure, easy to back-up and restore (a major plus) and perfectly practical. Like all the better email clients, it saves messages each in its own more-or-less plain text file, which is a huge advantage whenever your system gets hosed.
 

time

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... what is an excellent email client ...
I assume you mean free? :)

That is a good question. Opera's email client is nice and easy to use, but the current version lacks features that some people want. They've promised big improvements in Opera 7; if they ever release the damn thing we'll find out.

I need to look at Mozilla's client in the next few days to see what they're up to. Who uses it right now?

I'm still using AK-Mail, myself. It's very, very fast and handles the thousands of emails I keep without even a murmur. But I don't recommend it to others because it's a pain to buy and rather expensive by today's standards. And I just noticed I had problems creating HTML emails on this machine, but that's probably because AK-Mail it hooks into IE's rendering engine, and this box only has IE3. :)

You may deduce from this that I'm not a big fan of HTML email.
 

LiamC

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I've been using Eudora for about a year now.

Free if you don't mind an add window.

You can specify (easily) the location for your mail files (makes backups a lot easier)

Gotcha's - you need to disable email (POP3) scanning from most AV vendors as you will never get any email. This isn't an issue as all attachments are saved to a special folder and the real-time virus scanner will pick it up. Certainly this is the case with PC-cillin and NAV.

By default, Eudora uses Outlook/OE preview method. I would disable this "feature" as an added security measure - use Eudora's preview instead.

Never suffered a virus since I started using it, can't say the same for Outlook/OE.
 

Buck

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Thanks for the input so far, more is always appreciated. As the preferred AV client, I'm presently using and pushing NOD32. I'm not sure how this will interact with some of the email clients.
 

CougTek

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I've been using Eudora for almost two years now, with very few problems.

What's NOD32? I know NAV (beurk), but not NOD32.
 

Mercutio

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Mozilla's mail client is the weakest part of its feature set, in that it still has a few observable bugs. Every now and then I get an indexing error between my display and the stuff that's actually on my mail server, which requires me to go read email elsewhere until I get around to closing out of Moz and making the bug go away.

The other, minor problem I have is that every once in awhile I have to click off "Inbox" for my new messages to be displayed. Neither of these things happens with a great deal of regularity.

Mostly I just use elm, a *nix console program, for mail, since it does everything exactly the way I like (ignore MIME crap, 80x24 text, full control over headers, etc). I don't keep an address book at all, use HTML or formatted text in mail, keep a schedule or store my mail in folders of any kind, and I do all my filtering before any of my clients could possibly display my mail.
 

Mercutio

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Mozilla's mail has those features. I just don't use them, owing to a lifetime of having other ways to do all those things.
 

Adcadet

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speaking of mail clients....quick question: I use Outlook 2002. I need to use my work's outgoing SMTP server, but can't check my ISP's email (attbi.com) at work - I think because of the firewall we run. Is there anyway I can get Outlook to not give an error message when at work (and it can't find my ISP's mail server) or home (when I can't use my work's email server)?

And yes, I am embarrased that I use Outlook. But I am typing this in Mozilla.
 

Mercutio

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Er, this is your laptop, then?

Set up two user accounts on your PC (assuming 2000/XP). Configure them for "home" and "work", and set up Outlook with all the same data stores (your Outlook address book, PST etc). You can configure seperate incoming and outgoing servers per user account.

That will work.

There may be another way, but I'll have to ask one of the MOS Masters I work with what that is.

As far as feature-completeness, nothing touches Outlook + Exchange. That is the richest personal information manager I've ever heard of. There are Exchange work-alikes (HP's Homemail, IIRC now supported by Hitachi or Samsung) that can enable the calendaring capabilities in Outlook, but AFAIK, nothing else integrates it so well.

Outlook without Exchange, is a highly mundane product. You can make notes and keep your own schedule. Big deal! There's lots of other ways to get that feature set. Yawn.

Mostly I advocate using a web-based scheduling package (freshmeat has several, and I've tried different ones) + web mail + non-Outlook mail (often Eudora Lite) for workstations.
 

Jake the Dog

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*rubs eyes*

did i just read Merc stating something almost positive about an MS product? i thought Merc followed the belief that anything MS is evil... :p
 

SteveC

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Adcadet said:
speaking of mail clients....quick question: I use Outlook 2002. I need to use my work's outgoing SMTP server, but can't check my ISP's email (attbi.com) at work - I think because of the firewall we run. Is there anyway I can get Outlook to not give an error message when at work (and it can't find my ISP's mail server) or home (when I can't use my work's email server)?
Doesn't clicking on the "Don't show this dialog box during Send/Recieve" box work, or is it a different error message?
 

Mercutio

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Jake, it's a given that Outlook is utter crap. It is. If everything in outlook worked, was not bloated or unresponsive, prone to data corruption and viruses, it would at least have a respectable feature set. I give it that credit.

And that;s as positive as I'll be. I've said a great many hprroble things about outlook, mostly to people who didn't want to hear them.
 

blakerwry

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I use mozilla to keep track of 4 IMAP accounts... it does a great job...

I've used it as a browser since it was called seamonkey at milestone 13 and have used it for mail when it was 1st tarting to be called mozilla.
 

Tea

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Hi Blakewry. Nice to see you around. I still think that Moz looks terrible by comparison with Opera or IE or even Netscape 4.X, but it just keeps getting better and better so far as the practicalities go. As a browser, anyway. I have never used it as an email app. (I'm perfectly happy with PMMail, and I don't like having this stuff integrated anyway - I'm sure I could mess about trying to work out under what circumstances your browser hands out your email address, but by keeping them seperate I don't have to know: it can't hand it out because it doesn't know it in the first place.) Anyway, my question (purely idle curiosity) is this: can Moz handle multiple SMTP/POP email accounts now, or just with IMAP? As I recall, the old Netscape 4.X could only do it with IMAP, not POP.
 

P5-133XL

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I must be a pure simpleton - I use pure Outlook as my PIM and OE for news groups (I wish Outlook could deal with newsgroups directly) and IE for browsing. I find them to be satisfactory with relatively few problems and since I have office, it is effectively free. Not quite sure why I need to go to the effort of changing to anything else. I do note that security is a MS sore spot and needs to be overhauled but my personal virus experiances have been relatively benign.

My experiances with fixing netscape mail after NAV has quarenteened all the mail has not been particularly pleasent (the problem is finding the Email that has the virus in it out of the hundreds recieved that day). My experiances in upgrading netscape while keeping the old mail also has not been particularly pleasent. My experiances with fixing virus with outlook has been a breeze and upgrading outlook and keeping the mail has also been quite pleasent.
 

Jake the Dog

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it's the same for me Mark. i use all the same products and have not had a problem. it's just a matter of using an effective anti-virus tool and keeping it's virus definition database up to date.
 

Tannin

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Jake the Dog said:
it's the same for me Mark. i use [IE and various Outlook flavours] and have not had a problem. it's just a matter of using an effective anti-virus tool and keeping it's virus definition database up to date.

That is the most ridiculous, downright crazy thing I have ever heard. Oh, I don't doubt that you personally have not had a problem yet but you have just been very, very lucky, Jake.

This week alone we have beeen deluged with unwanted extra work. Bugbear is everywhere. And every single Bugbear infected computer was running Outlook. Every single one. The idiots who got Bugbear (and are having to make do without a computer this weekend because we haven't had time to fix their machines yet - real work takes priority over self-inflicted injuries) fell into three categories, and there were roughly equal numbers in each group.

  1. The ultra-moron: This category of customer is running the Internet Explorer 5.0 and Outlook Express that came out of the box with Windows 98SE. They have no patches, no updates, and no anti-virus software. (There are some minor variants, of course, such as Win95B with IE 5.0.) This type, thankfully, is marginally less common than the other two - maybe just under 30% as opposed to about 40% for Type 2 and about 30% for Type 3.
  2. The lazy moron: This one is has no patches but does have an anti-virus program. Unfortunately, the anti-virus program is anywhere between a month and over a year out of date and is effectively useless. They got Bugbear just as readily as their ultra-moron brothers.
  3. The semi-bright moron: These customers are hammering on the the door of sentience but have yet to figure out how to turn the handle and come in. They run a variety of different software but the common factors are easily recognisable just the same: Windows 98, ME or XP with Internet Explorer, mostly 6.0 but some with 5.0 or 5.5. Most have both versions of Outlook (Express and regular), most have done at least some security patching, and every one has a reputable anti-virus product with the latest updates. And thet too got Bugbear, because (as is the case with all new virus epidemics) the anti-virus software updates lag the introduction of the virus itself by a measurable amount of time.

In contrast, I'll list three more types, but lump them all into one category:
  • The rational user: This category of customer actually listened to our standard security briefing when we delivered their machine, or didn't listen but just followed the path of least resistance which, with a Red Hill machine, is to use the email program we put a short-cut to in the system tray (usually Netscape Messenger 4.x in a Tannin-built system, Kristi tends to use 6.x). This type of customer can be running anything from Windows 95 through to Windows XP or 2000, can be using any combination of browsers, can have the latest anti-virus updates, no updates, or no anti-virus software at all. They cover the full range of Types 1 to 3 above, with the sole exception that they do not use any variety of Outlook for email. Many of them have the Red Hill standard setup, which removes Outlook or at least deletes all shortcuts and start menu entries for it, installs Netscape Messenger as the default email client, adds Opera as well as IE 5.0, removes the Windows Scripting Host, and removes the Windows Address Book. But by no means all of them: some of them remove, replace, or reinstall parts of the above, and sometimes we are in a hurry and forget to do all of the above. Some of them have instaled Euadora or Incredimail or another email client. But none of them run Outlook. There are no prises for guessing how many of these people have rolled up this week wanting Bugbear removed from their machines: not even one.
Of all our thousands of non-Outlook using customers, not a single one has called us with the Bugbear virus. You are living on borrowed time, Jake. You too, Mark. Yes, even you guys: you are both smart enough to be right up to date with your patches and anti-virus scanners and thus fairly low-risk as these things go, but you are both at risk nevertheless. You are far, far more likely to get a nasty virus than I am here at home (using PMMail and the latest PC-cillian), and more at rsk than Mercutio too - and last time he mentioned it, Merc wasn't using any anti-virus software at all, he just avoids Outlook and exercises care with attachments.
 

Handruin

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Tannin said:
Jake the Dog said:
it's the same for me Mark. i use [IE and various Outlook flavours] and have not had a problem. it's just a matter of using an effective anti-virus tool and keeping it's virus definition database up to date.

That is the most ridiculous, downright crazy thing I have ever heard. Oh, I don't doubt that you personally have not had a problem yet but you have just been very, very lucky, Jake.

This week alone we have beeen deluged with unwanted extra work. Bugbear is everywhere. And every single Bugbear infected computer was running Outlook. Every single one. The idiots who got Bugbear (and are having to make do without a computer this weekend because we haven't had time to fix their machines yet - real work takes priority over self-inflicted injuries) fell into three categories, and there were roughly equal numbers in each group.

  1. The ultra-moron: This category of customer is running the Internet Explorer 5.0 and Outlook Express that came out of the box with Windows 98SE. They have no patches, no updates, and no anti-virus software. (There are some minor variants, of course, such as Win95B with IE 5.0.) This type, thankfully, is marginally less common than the other two - maybe just under 30% as opposed to about 40% for Type 2 and about 30% for Type 3.
  2. The lazy moron: This one is has no patches but does have an anti-virus program. Unfortunately, the anti-virus program is anywhere between a month and over a year out of date and is effectively useless. They got Bugbear just as readily as their ultra-moron brothers.
  3. The semi-bright moron: These customers are hammering on the the door of sentience but have yet to figure out how to turn the handle and come in. They run a variety of different software but the common factors are easily recognisable just the same: Windows 98, ME or XP with Internet Explorer, mostly 6.0 but some with 5.0 or 5.5. Most have both versions of Outlook (Express and regular), most have done at least some security patching, and every one has a reputable anti-virus product with the latest updates. And thet too got Bugbear, because (as is the case with all new virus epidemics) the anti-virus software updates lag the introduction of the virus itself by a measurable amount of time.

In contrast, I'll list three more types, but lump them all into one category:
  • The rational user: This category of customer actually listened to our standard security briefing when we delivered their machine, or didn't listen but just followed the path of least resistance which, with a Red Hill machine, is to use the email program we put a short-cut to in the system tray (usually Netscape Messenger 4.x in a Tannin-built system, Kristi tends to use 6.x). This type of customer can be running anything from Windows 95 through to Windows XP or 2000, can be using any combination of browsers, can have the latest anti-virus updates, no updates, or no anti-virus software at all. They cover the full range of Types 1 to 3 above, with the sole exception that they do not use any variety of Outlook for email. Many of them have the Red Hill standard setup, which removes Outlook or at least deletes all shortcuts and start menu entries for it, installs Netscape Messenger as the default email client, adds Opera as well as IE 5.0, removes the Windows Scripting Host, and removes the Windows Address Book. But by no means all of them: some of them remove, replace, or reinstall parts of the above, and sometimes we are in a hurry and forget to do all of the above. Some of them have instaled Euadora or Incredimail or another email client. But none of them run Outlook. There are no prises for guessing how many of these people have rolled up this week wanting Bugbear removed from their machines: not even one.
Of all our thousands of non-Outlook using customers, not a single one has called us with the Bugbear virus. You are living on borrowed time, Jake. You too, Mark. Yes, even you guys: you are both smart enough to be right up to date with your patches and anti-virus scanners and thus fairly low-risk as these things go, but you are both at risk nevertheless. You are far, far more likely to get a nasty virus than I am here at home (using PMMail and the latest PC-cillian), and more at rsk than Mercutio too - and last time he mentioned it, Merc wasn't using any anti-virus software at all, he just avoids Outlook and exercises care with attachments.

Without sarcasm, that was an inspiring post. I'm not sure what category I fit into...might I say I'm bad with my updates, even though I run Outlook. My office has been up to date for some time, but my confidence is low in the product's security.

I know many e-mail options have been mentioned, but do any of these better e-mail alternatives have a decent calendar feature?

There are only a few things I need for a pop3 client, that's the ability to monitor multiple e-mails into one inbox, have filtering capability, and a calendar with reminders. I'll have to look through the feature list of a few free e-mail clients.
 

blakerwry

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Can Moz handle multiple SMTP/POP email accounts now, or just with IMAP? As I recall, the old Netscape 4.X could only do it with IMAP, not POP.


the system is a bit more like OE in that respect... you have individual mail accounts.. each of which can have their own incoming and outgoing server, user, pass, mail format, etc.


so, yes.. it handles both multiple smtp and POP accounts as well as the multiple IMAP accounts supported in Communicator.
 

Jake the Dog

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i don't think it's luck at all Tannin, just good, safe practises. as i said, i'm careful and keep my A-V up to date, this traps 99% of the virus ridden e-mails i get however i never open anything with an attachment from someone i don't recognise anyway. i've not been caught out in three years of running Outlook and i fully expect not to in the future. fyi, i recieve about 20 personal e-mails a day. surpisingly enough (or at least to me), my work related e-mails are scanned at the exchange server using a Trend-Micro product which works very well.
 

blakerwry

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I still think that Moz looks terrible by comparison with Opera or IE or even Netscape 4.X, but it just keeps getting better and better so far as the practicalities go

You know it comes with different skinz.. and you can download hundreds more. It has a nice built in interface for doing it also.. just click on the link to the skin and it installs.

More recent version of mozilla on windows require you to restart mozilla for the skin change to take effect.

Moz also has tabbed browsing... less popups.... and has an IRC client (chatzilla)
 

Tannin

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Some people just refuse to learn. You astonish me Jake. Outlook is responsible for around 70% of all virus infections, and people still use it! I guess you think smoking is good for you! Though, if we do the numbers, we discover that only about half of the world's smokers die of smoking-related problems, so in comparison to Outlook it's actually quite safe.
 
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