Realtek ALC650 Onboard 6-Chennel vs. SBLive!

[Clocker]

Hey guys-
For the gift system I'm eventually going to build, I have an old SBLive! card that I got off eBay for something like $5.00

If you were using a VIA based Athlon motherboard (i.e. KT333 or KT400) that had the Realtek ALC650 (or is is 6550?) onboard sound, would you use the onboard sound or the SBLive! ?

I remember a while back there were some issues with the SBLive! and VIA chipsets but I think they are probably resolved by now.

Anyway, the SBLive! seems like a sure bet for compatibility and mature drivers but I was wondering what you guys thought....

Thanks,
C

 

[Tea]

I don't have an opinion, not really, as most of my computers don't even get the sound driver software loaded, let alone have speakers plugged into them ... er ... I think I have 8 machines at present, and only one of them (this one) has any speakers or sound drivers. (It's an Albatron KT-400 with a Sound Blaster 128. I like the SB-128 because I don't have to stuff about changing drivers when I swap motherboards, and it's compatible with all the games I play ... er ... all one of them.)

But it would be interesting and useful to know how the on-board sound that KT-400s have rates against an SB Live. Also, while we are at it, comment about the Nforce I and Nforce II on-board sound as cmpared to SB Live, SB Audigy & KT-400 would be welcome. Always nice to know how things rate against one another.

 

[flagreen]

Seems like there are problems with SBL and a lot of things. I've seen many complaints over the years about problems with them particularly with smp systems. I use my onboard AC97 and it's good enough for me.

 

[Mercutio]

I'd probably use ACL650 unless I had a compelling reason to do otherwise. Only a gamer or a multimedia hobbyist would likely notice the difference. For everyday sound, the Live has a little bit better SNR, but without expensive speakers, you're not going to notice that, either. In short, the added quality of the Live isn't normally something that's going to make a difference.

 

[Mercutio]

Using the RealTek as a baseline, yes, everything that's out there sounds better. Sound tends to "skip" when your CPU is under high load, something that doesn't seem to happen with PCI based sound cards or soundstorm.
When does your average PC user, even your average gamer, max out their CPU on a 2GHz machine?

The Live and first-gen Audigy sound "pretty good". There isn't particularly a difference between them. My main knock against those card at present is the fact that they need add-on boards for digital I/O support. ACL650s may or may not support digital I/O, but at least I don't have to buy a "Platinum" version of a card to get those connectors. Another knock for the Live/Audigy is that there's no way to force multichannel sound. Most sounds in Windows are stereo. In some circumstances (games, basically), they can support 5.1 sound. There's no way to set things to 5.1 and leave them there. At least, there's nothing built into the card that will do that.

Audigy 2 is a bit of an improvement. It DOES sound better. It handles DVD Audio with included software, which is neat for me and the other six people in the world with a collection of DVD Audio discs. It has some builtin digital I/O. Not perfect, but better.

The Philips Acoustic Edge can upsample to 5.1. It doesn't sound quite as good as a Live, generally, and I understand there are some goofy bugs with that card's drivers. Also, it's lacking digital I/O. Still, always-on 5.1 is not a bad thing.

I'm not particularly a fan of ESS-based stuff like the TBSC or Hercules Theater cards. They're pretty vanilla IMO. Step up from Realtek. Sound on par with the Acoustic Edge. Some support for digital I/O. I don't think those cards do quite enough to justify being add-in boards for a computer with integrated sound.

SoundStorm (nforce2, at least) sounds good. Like the Audigy 2. Its internal upscaling of stereo sound to Dolby Digital 5.1 seems to work better than Pro Logic II (the technology built into newer amplifiers to do the same thing), and the sound quality is generally there. Knocks against it are that most nforce2 boards don't have much support for digital I/O (I'm sick of saying that), and every once in awhile, there are "glitches" in the sound that's sent to one's speakers, which on my setup sound like someone blowing air over a microphone. I turn off my receiver for a few minutes and all goes back to normal.

My listening is normally done with sound hardware connected digitally to a home theater receiver. That's a very different perspective than an office user with a 2.0 or 2.1 speaker set, or a gamer with analog 5.1s.

 

[Piyono]

As sound quality is so highly subjective, and can only be properly gauged, for a particualr listener, by that listener him/herself, and only through direct comparison of components, I have formulated the Universal Determinant Condition Law of Audio Upgrades (UDCL/AU) to help people faced with the choice to upgrade. It is deceptively simple yet brutally effective. The decision to upgrade is made by evaluating the answers to this series of three questions:

1. Does listening to audio through my current configuration bring me great distress?
2. Really?
3. REALLY?

The upgrade may proceed if and only if all of the three questions above is answered with a truthful "yes".
While my method may seem oversimplified or even incomplete, it is, in fact, a very accurate measure of one's True Need To Upgrade (TNTU), and will prove effective for 99% of people 99% of the time. I encourage everyone to apply this method freely to audio purchases and everything else.
Royalty and License-free.


Piyono

 

[blakerwry]

While my method may seem oversimplified or even incomplete, it is, in fact, a very accurate measure of one's True Need To Upgrade (TNTU), and will prove effective for 99% of people 99% of the time. I encourage everyone to apply this method freely to audio purchases and everything else.
Royalty and License-free.


Piyono

Then maybe it should just be titled "Universal Determinant Condition Law of Upgrades"

 

[mangyDOG]

I use sound cards in the following way:

1) Play music in office or home environment on standard 2 or 2.1 speakers = Onboard (generally Realtec AC97) sound chip

2) Gamers who want EAX sound and are using 4.1 or better speakers = SB Live

3) Serious music listeners or serious gamers = Audigy2 card


Personally, in my office I use Logitech z340 2.1 speakers on an onboard ac97 chip and I cannot really notice any difference with a SB Live card (so I sold the SB Live and went back to the AC97) At home I have Altec Lansing 5.1 speakers on an Audigy2 and the sound is noticably better both in music and games.

To answer your original question though, if you have an SB Live for $5 you may as well use it!

Cheers...

 

[Prof.Wizard]

To answer your original question though, if you have an SB Live for $5 you may as well use it!

Why throw it? As long as there is official support from Creative you should use it. Sounds good...

 

[Tea]

Mercutio, thankyou for that instant update on the sound card scene. I need to re-read it to make sure that it's all sunk in, but overall I guess it more-or less confirms our current practice: on-board of it doesn't matter, SB 128 or SB Live if it does (because they are so cheap now and - sure - the drivers are pox, but at least they are pox we are used to. Or something. errrr wasn't there supposed to be a closing bracket there somewhere? No matter, I'll pretend I'm Tannin.

 

[Clocker]

just incase you decided to comment but not vote....PLEASE VOTE! :roll:

 

[Tea]

OK, OK. I voted. Are you happy now, Mr Gumpy Nohair?

 

[Tannin]

Tea, be nice to Clocker.

 

[Tea]

zorry clocker

 

[Clocker]

heh heh Tea I'm going to make a rug out of you! :lol:

 

[Tea]

Why thankyou, Clocker. I always like to share a hug with my best friendz. Over here we call it "giving you a hug" not "making a hug" but that's OK. I know that you Americans talk a little funny sometimes, but that you are actually very nice people on the inside.

By the way, did you spot your typo where you misspelled "hug" and wrote "rug"? One of these days, when Tannin finally finds me a good lexdixia coach, I'll send you his address. Sounds like you could use some help too.

PS: I'm getting better at the "z"s lately. Tannin zays he thinks the Valium is working, but it's probably just because I wore the "z" key out on two or three of the keyboards and I have to zubstitute for it with an "s" sometimes.

Do you know anybody who wants to buy some slightly used keyboardz? Guaranteed to work perfectly 25/26ths of the time, good price?

 

[time]

Piyono, your UDCL/AU or UDCLU is just wonderful!

I'd probably use the onboard sound because the SNR and THD are more than acceptable, and why the hell should I stuff around with Creative Crap?

Okay, seriously, with computer speakers no-one will be able to tell the difference. Use whichever keeps your karma kool.

 

[GMac]

I went with the onboard option, although I can see the logic of throwing the SBLive in if you picked it up cheap - the drivers are the usual weak spot (I've had too many bad experiences with Creative drivers to recommend them :x ). Most systems I build for other people utilise the onboard chip, as they don't need or want anything more complex (my own box has a Hercules DigiFire 7.1, which is a cracking little card for gaming and audio listening).

GM

 

[Clocker]

Doesn't M$ have drivers for the Creative card that are pretty mature, stable, etc (by now....that is)??
C

 

[Adcadet]

I am facing a similar dilemma 3.5 years later. I listen to lots of MP3s, mostly at 160 kbps through headphones (Sennheiser 280 pros), and I do play some games. With headphones I'm guessing EAX is a non-issue? Or is it? Anyway, my new motherboard, a Asus P5N-E SLI has an onboard Realtek ALC883 outputting to my Antec P180s front ports. I get a little hiss unless I mute the various channels that I don't use, but otherwise it's just fine so far. If the EAX deal is significant maybe when I play more games in the coming months I'll notice a difference. I've got an old SB Live value card laying around, and am debating installing it. I've tried installing Ubuntu Linux on this board, but so far no go - perhaps when it does support the board I'll have to switch to the SB Live card for better support. So far I haven't since I can't use my Antec P180's front headphone jack with it. Anybody have some thoughts on the comparison between the Realtek ALC883 (which is advertised as "HD audio," which I'm pretty sure is an overstatement) to an old SB Live value?

 

[Clocker]

I ended up using the SBLive! in the end. It did sound better in games and I think the cpu utilization was lower IIRC. If you have the room for it, I recommend using the card. Plus, the M$ drivers via WindowsUpdate seemed to have full functionality so there was no need for the Creative drivers.

 

[Handruin]

<waitsformercutiotocommentontheevilnessofheadphones>

 

[ddrueding]

<waitsformercutiotocommentontheevilnessofheadphones>

...and SB cards in general...don't forget that...

 

[Mercutio]

Soundblaster cards are pointless.
Headphones are uncomfortable and damage your hearing and make you more prone to ear infections.

And actually, all my comments from the beginning of the thread still apply.

 

[LunarMist]

I like headphones. I never had any infections, but did get some unpleasant, disturbing electric shocks from the high voltage electrostatic headphones many years ago.