Replacement for Word, and Excel

Primate

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http://www.software602.com/products/pcs/

I found this free suite of applications when looking for a MS Works replacement for a friend.

I've installed it and it appears stable and supports the MS file formats and has a lot of features.

I thought I'd post it and let you all know about it in case you wanted a free alternative to the MS stuff.
 

Jake the Dog

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it all good, except that it really doesn't have too many features ionce you get into it. slo crostic used it for a while, he'll be able to tell you more about it if yuo need.
 

blakerwry

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OpenOffice is good... infact somtimes better than word... however I have to disagree with AbiWord... I have never found AbiWord to be as compatible as OO.. and it has issues displaying things on the screen as they would print.

WYSIWYG is a pretty basic thing in a word processor and has been available since DOS 5.0, I expect all decent word processor packages to be able to do this corerctly.
 

Pradeep

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I never got WYSIWYG until I moved from Word for DOS to Word for Windows. My god now that was an improvement.
 

blakerwry

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yes, the DOS version of word never supported WYSIWYG (as far as I can recall).. but there were other programs that were designed for "desktop publishing" that were WYSIWYG. I may still have one on 640k floppy.
 

NRG = mc²

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I use openoffice, its good, but I find it loads up slowly, and also in a couple of my word documents the test did not display exactly as it did in the latest version of Word
 

SteveC

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I'm using OpenOffice more and more, and I haven't had any major incompatibility problems yet. However, the documents I create are usually fairly simple, without many complex elements. It has a quickstart to help the load time, but I disabled it on my system since it eats up RAM (about 25-30 megs).
 

jtr1962

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I just installed it and it does seem to be a reasonable replacement for MSOffice. There are some compatibility problems, at least with Excel. The graphs on a few of my spreadsheets were messed up, but other than that everything's OK so far. Maybe it's just a matter of getting rid of a few custom color schemes. I haven't played around with it too much yet. I'm sure MSOffice has more features, but many of them most people don't use anyway.
 

Primate

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Their claim is that they didn't include the features many people don't use anyway.

I would say they have included enough features for it to be a useful and money saving alternative for someone who has to receive the MS file formats and work with them.

From what I've seen in a few days of working with it, it's far better than MS works.
 

Cliptin

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Interesting article from Mike Magee. It addresses something I have been thinking about myself. I am beginning to wonder what utility I am actually getting out of MS Office. I originally found a reason to use Word when it first introduced the Mail Merge thingy.

I've since not needed this feature and I'm beginning to wonder if Wordpad wouldn't be all I need. I suspect many people don't need anything more either.
 

e_dawg

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OpenOffice.org ROCKS for a free program. This is the most capable piece of freeware I have ever used. While it cannot replace MS Office for advanced use in an enterprise setting (cross-file compatibility especially with advanced formatting and the lack of VBA are the only significant areas it is lacking in after a brief test drive with the spreadsheet and word processor modules), for most home users, it does an excellent job. Indeed, it has more power and features than most people will ever need.

If they would only develop an e-mail/scheduling program to add to the spreadsheet / word processor / presentation / drawing modules, this would be darn near perfect as a freeware replacement for MS Office. I am begging the folks at Ximian to port Evolution to Win32. E-mail and scheduling are so crucial to everday life -- an Outlook equivalent is just too important to overlook!
 

timwhit

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The two things I need in a word processor is a good spell check, and secondly a good grammar check. My writing needs lots of corrections and without these two things, my writing starts to suffer.

So other than Word does any other free package have a grammar check?
 

The Grammar Police

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There is no such thing as a competent grammer checker, bar the one on the top of your neck. No computer program written so far or in the forseeable future can remotely approach the ability of a human being. Humans are hard-wired to check grammer: one of the very few things that set us apart from our close relatives in the genus Homo is the part of our brain that understands and creates grammer. This is unique: no other animal has it. Further, it exists and is functional even in completely untrained people.

If you lack confidence in your grammer, then training is the answer, not software. A little training - and I do mean a little - can turn any human into a competent grammerian. There may be better methods, but the best one that I am aware of is simply to write and have a competent teacher review your text and make appropriate corrections until you are writing perfectly. Most - probably all - people with "poor grammer" actually have excellent grammer, and are very consistent with it. Their problem is not at all that they have "poor grammer", it's simply that the grammer they learned as a young child is grammer from a language that is not quite the language they are "supposed" to speak. (such as English or French).

One does not need to teach such a person "how to do grammer", they already know this, one merely needs to teach them the slightly different rules of grammer for the language they wish to speak or write in. (Such as formal English as opposed to colloquial or reigonal English). So if you "can't do grammer" and "need a computer to help", do not despair! You don't need to do the grammatical equivalent of learning to drive a car, you only need to do the equivalent of learning to drive a Ford when you have grown up driving Volkswagens.

This inbuilt, hardwired ability we humans have to create and apply grammatical rules is not only fundamental to our ability to think, conceptualise, communicate and build civilisations, it is astonishingly robust. One of the most graphic illustrations of this is the rapid metamorphis of pigeons and creoles. When you throw together a group of people who do not have a common language (such as on a construction site with many foreign laborers), they rapidly develop a pigeon - a made-up and very rudimentary language, usually based on one or two or three of the languages that the people do speak but do not share, which has very little flexibility and is hopeless for expressing abstract concepts but gets them by in the short term.

However, pigeons never last very long. The adults will carry on speaking pigeon for as long as they remain in the language-poor environment, but their children do not. These children grow up without the benefit of a common language to use amongst themselves. The lucky ones speak (say) Italian or Malay in the home, but must make do with pigeon outside. The unlucky ones don't even have that much - for their parents themselves do not have a common language (he speaks English, she speaks Bantu, say) and even in the home the only language spoken is pigeon.

So what happens? The children invent a new language! Incredible, but true. A real language, complete with all the complex forms and rules that characterise English or Mandarin or Russian or Bantu, and equally capable of expressing fine shades of meaning and abstract concepts. It has been studied and documented many times. Children have an innate ability to absorb linguistic rules, to understand verbs and nouns and pronouns and all the tenses, and this ability is so much a part of the human being as hard-wired at birth that language-deprived children will invent their own new language, and independantly turn their parent's clumsy pigeon into a true creole, with the same sort of rules that English has.

One does not need to consciously understand these rules in order to be able to use them. I certainly don't! Cliptin does - he can cite the component parts of any given sentence and give them their proper names - but that formal schooling is not needed - as witness the fact that Cliptin and I have roughly equivalent ability to express ourselves correctly, despite the fact that he knows how he does it and I don't. In fact we all have this ability, every last one of us. A Cliptin, with his formal schoooling, can quickly adapt to a new and different grammer (or at least I think he would be able to do so), where I must rely on my ingrained exposure to the language that I grew up speaking (fairly formal and correct English) and would have to take longer practicing to speak a different language were I called on to master it.

But master it I would - for like all humans, I was born with the ability to do so. Computers do not.
 

timwhit

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I know, but it's nice when the computer tells me not to use passive participles or run-on sentences.
 

The Grammar Police

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I don't know what a passive participle is, but I bet you I don't use them - and as for "run-on sentences", this is a silly rule that a computer is utterly incapable of judging with any reliability or sense of clarity, and even humans should be wary of, as it is perfectly possible to create a very long and "run-on" sentence (like this present hundred and one word one, by way of example) that is perfectly clear, readable and breaks none of the so-called inviolable rules of "good grammar" as interpreted by a mindless, artless box of C code errors.
 

The Grammar Police

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Errr ... in my quest to wind up witth exactly 101 words in that last post, I think I just mangled my sentence. Serves me right for not previewing properly. :(

Excuse me, I have to go and lock myself up now. Tea? Would you mind letting me out in the morning? Danke.
 

timwhit

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Just to get this back on topic...

A spreadsheet is just about useless to me without macro capabilities. I like to be able to do things using code in Excel. I am always writing simple VBA code to do things that would take me many times longer to do by hand. I do not care about writing macros for Word, but in Excel it is a necessity.
 

Mercutio

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There is nothing wrong with using what MS Word calls a passive sentence. It's considered a no-no by some business writing style guides, and business writing is the default for the Word grammar checker (which also checks style, and if you don't believe that, watch what happens when you but the word "whore" in something you type in word).

I have no training in grammar at all. I never had to diagram sentences or find the verb or any of the other things people are taught in grammar class. Still, I write reasonably well, and do so by intuition. This suggests that there's some truth to GP's notions.

Also, the word is "pidgin", GP. Pigeon is a bird. Pidgin is a simple language. ;)
 

The Grammar Police

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Ha! Just goes to show that, deep down inside, I really do have a little tiny bit of spelling inside me. All the way through that post, I had to keep crossing out the letter "d" and forcing myself to write "pigeon". As I did so, I was vaguely wondering why my fingers seemed to want to keep on putting a "d" in there. Obviously, they knew something I didn't.

Oh, and it's not just a notion, Mercutio. It's very much an established fact. We are hard wired for language. Many psuchologists and linguists believe that it is this very mental wiring (unique to Homo sapiens) is the thing that made it possible for our remote ancestors to suddenly start down the path to worldwide domination. For between two and three million years, we lived on the edges of forests, walking upright but otherwise very little different to apes. Then, quite suddenly, about 125,000 years ago, we started making tools, changing the environment, developing recognisable cultural practices (such as burial customs, which are taken to imply religion, cave paintings, and the like). There is no discernable difference between a human skeleton of 200,000 years ago and one of 200 years ago, and very little difference between one from two years ago or one from two million years ago - only the size of the brain cavity changed, and that very gradually. But there was a massive difference in our behaviour, and it happened quite quickly. No one can say why for certain, but the development of language is just about the only theory that stands up. There are two aspects to it. The first suggests that it was language itself that was the factor, the second that, although language is important, the more important effect was that the brain modifications that were required to enable complex human language were themselves fundamental enablers of higher-order thought, and it was this newfound ability to think that is more critical. Still others maintain (following Noam Chomsky, I think, though linguistics is not my area) that general mental ability and language ability are not simply intertwined, but inseperable: in this view, laguage is thought and thought is language, or nearly so.

Now all this significance of language stuff is speculative and hotly debated. But the fact that humans are hard-wired for grammar is not: that is well and truly a proven fact.

BTW: does Word have a series of different grammar rules that you can switch between? (I don't use Word (unless you count Word 6.0 for DOS) and have never used a grammar checker in my life, bar once or twice out of curiosity and for a laugh.) There are lots of different situations where the appropriate rules to use vary. If you are writing a scientific paper, for example, you must use passive voice. But I should imagine that they have long since covered that angle.
 

Tannin

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Also, we should note that having a fancy new German title does not absolve one from the duty of checking one's post for gibberish. You are supposed to be doing time behind bars, GP. Tea? What did you let him out for?

(Sorry, Tannin. I screwed up.)

(Here. You better give me the key. You can't be trusted.)

GP? Go to your cell and stay there!
 
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