Rethinking the Meat-Guzzler

[sechs]

Things that make you go, "hmmmm...."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?_r=2
(probably requires a log-in... you guys know how bugmenot works)

 

[udaman]

Things that make you go, "hmmmm...."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?_r=2
(probably requires a log-in... you guys know how bugmenot works)

Mark Bittman, who writes the Minimalist column in the Dining In and Dining Out sections, is the author of “How to Cook Everything Vegetarian,” which was published last year. He is not a vegetarian.

You did see Merc's latest pizza cravings where he said he was going to go for the 'cheese, hot dogs, and bacon' did you not? Don't think you'll change many minds, just like the Abortion issues (though we do note that Whole Foods has eliminated plastic grocery bags from their stores...off on a tangent, like Merc, I don't care...what I do care about is that young thang and her cleavage at the check out ).

No need for bugmenot as NYTimes recently went full freebie, FYI. If only we could get the LATimes to do the same, while they are currently trying to cult staff/budget dramatically.

 

[jtr1962]

I'd say I'm already well below the average American's meat consumption. I'll get a pair of whopper juniors maybe every 3 weeks on average. That's the extent of my hamburger and fries fix. Outside of that, the only meat I eat is occasional meatballs with pasta and sauce, or meat otherwise used as a small part of a mixed dish (i.e. Chinese food). I'm finding nuts to be a great source of protein. They also satisfy my increasing cravings for non-processed foods (I eat either peanuts or almonds, both roasted in the shell without any further processing).

I'd rather we eat less meat as a nation so we don't have to have grain-fed cattle. A cow is supposed to eat grass, not corn. And the growth hormone we're adding to cow feed seems to be having the same effect on the humans eating the cow. :bounce: Another thought in all this is genetic engineering may save the day. We may well soon be able to clone 50 foot trays of perfectly tender meat, with no fat or bones, and under 100% sanitary conditions, free of all these additives.

BTW, isn't kelp a huge source of food in some places? Seems that's something worth exploiting as it's plentiful and easy to grow. Well, if all else fails and the food supply runs dry, there's always Soylent Green.

 

[Tannin]

Buck posted a great link on this topic a few years ago. Worth digging out and rereading.

 

[jtr1962]

Here's the thread Tannin is referring to. The links to the article no longer work.

 

[Fushigi]

I read the article and it seems like some details are missing. First and foremost, while the costs, wastes, & inefficiencies are mentioned for meat, the costs, wastes, and inefficiencies for what would replace meat in our diet is not mentioned.

Also, we would not as a society wholly or significantly replace meat with the same grain being fed to the animals; the flavor and nutrition differences are far too large. Even the 'fake meat' products from Boca, Morningstar Farms, etc. only do a fair job of mimicking the texture and a sub-par job on taste.

Second, the 800 million "hungry humans" argument is a straw man. It has never been about food production. It has always boiled down to politics, local economics, and distribution.

I'm not defending the meat industry. My personal and our household meat consumption is pretty low. As someone battling moderately high cholesterol without drugs (but under a doctor's supervision) I have cut way back on meats in my diet. I haven't eaten a real egg in a couple of years. Breakfast is either cereal with skim milk or a mix of fruit & granola. Lunch is either salad or that childhood favorite PB&J. Dinners vary but may have meat or just be vegetarian. It's easy to eat vegetarian at most restaurants - vegan would be another matter - like Mexican, Italian, and Chinese/Japanese/Thai/Indian/anything Asian.

My second & fourth paragraphs appear to contradict each other, but my food tastes are many and varied. I like virtually all cuisines and am just as comfortable with chopsticks as I am with a fork & knife. Most people seem to have a comfort zone and stick to that instead of being open to trying new things.

 

[Tannin]

But, Fushigi, there is no question that the costs, wastes, and inefficiencies of growing vast amounts of vegetable protein in order to produce small amounts of animal protein are of a different order of magnitude to those of the alternative. I can't remember the figures now, but the difference is huge.

On your second point, the aim should not be to produce second-rate fake meat, it should be to introduce people (for the first time in their lives, in many cases) to the tase of first rate real vegetables. In other words, education. Improving the human, not pandering to artifical tastes developed in a food-deprived McEnviroment.

For the record, I eat meat as often as I feel like it, which is seldom, perhaps three meals a week on average, and when I do it is often (but not always) a small part of a predominately non-meat dish. I do eat a lot of dairy products though, which I probably shouldn't. As Tea is to chocolate, gin and bananas, so am I to cheese.

 

[ddrueding]

I grew up in the "Salad Bowl of the World", where lettuce was grown in fields starting one block from my house and stretching on to the horizon. The best lettuce, celery, artichoke, strawberries, any many more are grown there year round. This produce has never been iced, the tractor towing a flatbed truck from the fields pulls up to the grocery store directly sometimes more than once a day. This is as good as it gets for salads.

I eat meat at least twice a day, I just don't stay full otherwise. All the meat I buy for the house is free-range organic. They aren't certified happy cows but they are as good as I can get without developing a direct relationship with a farmer/rancher (as my sister has done). When we eat out, most of the restaurants we go to serve only the "good stuff", with the exception of the Asian places, who only guarantee "No MSG!".

The fast food that I have a couple times a week is bad stuff, and I know it. But it is better than smoking or chocolate, so as far as vices go, I can live with it.

What is it with Australians and cheese? I know quite a few (most from the Melbourne area), and they all love cheese.

 

[Handruin]

I love cheese. I make it a point to try all the different imported varieties I can find when I go shopping at the super market. One of my favorites is Mahon made in Spain.

 

[sechs]

Some years ago I decided to only eat grass-fed beef.

First, feedlot conditions are ridiculous. This is beyond chickens pooing on each other and billions of gallons of pig manure; these things are a blight upon the earth.

Second, cattle simply aren't designed to eat all that grain. Their digestive systems don't work with it correctly, and they get sick. So they have to pump them full of vitamins and other supplements *and* antibiotics.

Finally, grass-fed beef is better. It tastes better and is better for you. Grain-fed beef has more fat -- and people have been brainwashed into thinking that's good and tasty.

 

[Tannin]

This is probably the same article reprinted. But you can read this one without buggerising about with logins and such.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...may-be-numbered/2008/02/03/1201973737372.html

 

[LunarMist]

You can buy organic beef at some of the finer groceries. I'm not sure how much better it really is.

 

[ddrueding]

There is no way a cow could survive standard feedlot conditions unless it was pumped full of chemicals. So I'm guessing the organic beef is decently humane. Whole Foods has excellent meat, but at 4-star restaurant prices.

 

[sechs]

If you think of cattle as existing to turn something that I can't fruitfully eat (grass) and turning it into something that I can (beef), then things seem to make a little more sense.

I've purchased from this place before:
http://www.americangrassfedbeef.com/

Not cheap... but, then again, neither is a triple bypass.

 

[Striker]

Why exactly is it more expensive to raise grass fed beef than the alternative of grain and all the hormones and antibiotics and crap? Is it just the land required to hold the animals and have grass for them to eat?

 

[ddrueding]

<guess>

Land, and the manpower of herding, branding, rotating fields, etc.

</guess>

 

[sechs]

It takes longer to get the cattle to market. More than a year, if I recall correctly. And time *is* money in this industry.

 

[Tea]

Also because the places where grain fed beef is popuar also happen to be places where the land and climate is ill-suited to raising grazing animals. Whether you are talking Europe or the northern USA, the winters are long and hard, but the growing season is short and yet very productive (because of very good soils and plenty of rainfall). These are conditions that strongly favour crop production over broadacre grazing.

So what do stupid humans do?

(a) Raise crops because this is good cropping land. (This is very sensible.)

(b) Feed those crops to cattle instead of doing something efficient and economically useful with them. (This is very stupid.)

 

[udaman]

Also because the places where grain fed beef is popuar also happen to be places where the land and climate is ill-suited to raising grazing animals. Whether you are talking Europe or the northern USA, the winters are long and hard, but the growing season is short and yet very productive (because of very good soils and plenty of rainfall). These are conditions that strongly favour crop production over broadacre grazing.

So what do stupid humans do?

(a) Raise crops because this is good cropping land. (This is very sensible.)

(b) Feed those crops to cattle instead of doing something efficient and economically useful with them. (This is very stupid.)

Please provide links to authorities you rely on for such statements, pro- vegetarian biased maybe...just a guess ?

Beef Myths & Facts

Meat production is wasteful

http://www.beeffrompasturetoplate.org/mythmeatproductioniswasteful.aspx