Samsung WDC buyout rumor

[storageguy]

I was wondering if anyone heard anything on the latest Western dig rumor. I know they have been talking for a while but wanted to see if anyone else had any insight.

thanks.

 

[Mercutio]

We had a thead about it a few months ago. It is just a rumor.
Hopefully, an untrue rumor.

Of course, so was the AMD/ATI merger, until it happened.

 

[storageguy]

I know for a fact that they have been talking for a while. Its probably going to happen but just not sure when. The inquirer had a rumor on it again today.

 

[Dïscfärm]

Allegedly, Samsung is mainly after Dubya Dee's *retail* biz.

For what it's worth, "Samsung Caviar" sounds kinda weird, not to mention "Samsung Raptor."

 

[Mercutio]

You say weird, I say unholy.

Same difference.

 

[P5-133XL]

I don't consider this to be bad news. If true, there are only two possibilites: WD drags Samsung down the proverbial tube or Samsung fixes WD quality control issues and gains much more access to the retail channel.

I am also thinking that there may be future competition with Hitachi or Seagate issues with neither WD or Samsung having an answer to perpendicular recording patents. They may feel that combining forces (research budgets) may help them compete in the future.

 

[sechs]

The consumer drive market needs to continue to contract, but Western Digital seemed to be the ugly girl that no one wanted to dance with. Unfortunately, people have been just stupid enough to keep buying their products.

My feeling is, if Samsung buys Western Digital, it's going to be just like the Hitachi-IBM deal. We'll never see a real Samsung drive again.

 

[GIANT]

...with neither WD or Samsung having an answer to perpendicular recording patents.

As far as industries go, the hard drive industry as a whole is better than average about patent licensing and cross-licensing, so that's not really it. Everyone should have perpy hard drives before the end of 2007.

Samsung's consumer / retail storage sales volume in North America is rather spotty at best. WD has excellent consumer / retail storage sales ranking. This could be what Samsung would like out of a deal with Dubya Dee.

Most of Samsungs desktop storage sales in the USA currently come from selling hard drives on contract to HP. The addition of Dubya Dee's contract could get them into more places.

Samsung does not currently manufacture or market "Enterprise" storage. Heaven forbid if someone in Samsung is thinking they could gain something from Dubya Dee's &#^$%$ "Enterprise" storage expertise!

About the only other thing of value at Dubya Dee is their RMA Department's capability at handling RMAs swiftly and efficiently (I keep hear this is one thing Dubya Dee is absolutely killer at).

 

[Mercutio]

Yes, WD is very good at handling RMAs.
Which it should be, given the staggering amount of practice it has.

Buying WD is flatly unethical. Whether a single drive or the whole damned company.

Has a drive company merger EVER gone well?

 

[Handruin]

What was wrong with IBM->Hitachi? I enjoy my hitachi drives, they seem to work well. There was also nothign wrong with my Maxtor atlas 10K drive back in the day...that worked fine too and I'm sure it still does today (except I don't have a U160 SCSI card to communicate with the drive).

 

[Tannin]

Has a drive company merger EVER gone well?

Seagate - Conner. Gained: some manufacturing plant. Lost: substantial part of their joing market share. Nope.

Maxtor - Miniscribe. Gained: massive market share. Lost: massive number of dollars. Wound up in Chapter 11, as I recall. Nope.

Seagate - CDC/Imprimis. Gained: Enterprise market #1 spot with a bullet. Lost: nothing. Yep.

Maxtor - Quantum. Gained: a SCSI division. Lost: market share to, of all people, Western Digital. Nope.

Not exactly an outstanding record, is it. (Almost) every time there is a merger the merged company has less market share thn the pre-merger companies did. Indeed, you'd have to say that the people with most to gain from, let's say, a WD - Samsung merger are probably the shareholders at Hitachi and Seagate!

 

[Buck]

Indeed, you'd have to say that the people with most to gain from, let's say, a WD - Samsung merger are probably the shareholders at Hitachi and Seagate!

Indeed. With the Seagate/Maxtor merger, WD had plenty of market share to gain, and did. As a matter of fact they became first inline with some OEMs because Maxtor was removed. Samsung has gained as well.

 

[storageguy]

thanks for all your input guys.

Im doing research on the drive Manufacturers from a financial stand point. any more color any of you can shed on these guys in terms of mkt share in nb, dt, enterprise and demand would be incredibly appreciated.

Also, im new to this and still learning... what is an RMA and why does WD have an advantage there and what impact and/or leverage can that create for WD or Samsung if they are merged.

Thanks in advance

 

[Handruin]

RMA stands for Return Merchandise Authorization and is used when you need to return a product for various reasons, but generally for warranty replacement.

The hint about WD having superior RMA service was to imply that WD has more product failures than the rest of the HD companies and therefore has more practice at making it better. The advantage is bitter-sweet in that they make a less reliable product, but offer great warranty service... The benifit would be if WD had reliability like Samsung and continued the same level of RMA service.

 

[Buck]

Also, im new to this and still learning... what is an RMA and why does WD have an advantage there and what impact and/or leverage can that create for WD or Samsung if they are merged.

Western Digital has an easy and simple Return Merchandise Authorization process in North America and Europe. They do not require some type of failure code to prove that the drive is bad. You can either create the RMA online or through their phone support staff.

Some people on this forum have had an amazing amount of WD drives fail, others have not. Nonetheles, those that have were probably releaved to deal with a convenient RMA process. Although this probably didn't impact their negative view of WD. Samsung has a less friendly RMA process, and could certainly benefit by WD's. Although some may say that it doesn't matter because they have virtually no failure issues with Samsung. I've had failures with both, yet both have been low in quantity.

For the past few years, Western Digital has played the follower. They've allowed technology giants like Seagate and IBM pioneer new markets with new technology. Then, if it is to their liking, WD will follow in with a competent product and a lower price. This usually allows them to take a large portion of that established market. Thus, WD has a very large share of the desktop arena. Other markets which they have not wholeheartedly pursued, like the Enterprise (it should be noted that when WD was more aggressive, they tried the Enterprise market with SCSI drives, and failed) and Notebook segement have been ruled by others, such as Seagate. Although I think this may change in the notebook market. I can see WD moving into this well established arena, biting off a big junk.

Although I'm two years behind on my updates, you can read a little bit of product history about WD at my website: http://www.hlmcompany.com/wd-history.php

 

[Buck]

They've allowed technology giants like Seagate and IBM pioneer new markets with new technology.

I use the term "allowed" loosely. WD does not have complete control over Seagate and IBM. Considering their very weak financial position at the start of this century, they had very little choice, but to follow. Nonetheless, they have always had the opportunity to pool their resources and become more aggressive - which they did at other times in their history.

 

[Bozo]

I believe the WD and IBM had a technology sharing agreement a while back. The hard drives were identical inside. You could use IBM hard drive utilities on a WD drive.
I don't know if this is still true though.

Bozo :joker:

 

[Handruin]

They did that about 7 years ago, and I have one. WD's first generation 7200RPM EIDE drives were made by IBM and called the Western Digital Expert series. I still have an 18GB drive in my closet somewhere. I have no idea if they still do this, but my guess is no.

 

[Tannin]

Huh? There is nothing at all wrong with Samsung's RMA process. Vastly better than WD's, especially insofar as Samsung actually send you replacement drives that function as hard drives (i.e., working ones) not bricks (I've had more than a couple of effectively DOA RMA replacements from WD). Samsung replace their RA drives with new product too, not refurbished crap that falls over right away. And finally, you hardly ever have to use it.

Today's courier is bringing me replacement Samsung drives to cover my entire accumulated faulty hard drive stock since May 2005: 3 drives, 2 x 80GB, 1 x 200GB. Yes, three. Remembering that we sell enough computers to keep two people in food, rent, beer, and expensive toys (three people if you count Tea), and every single one of them made in the last three years has at least one Samsung hard drive in it under our warranty, that's a phenomenal record.

 

[Buck]

I believe the WD and IBM had a technology sharing agreement a while back. The hard drives were identical inside. You could use IBM hard drive utilities on a WD drive.

They did this for three generations of 7,200-rpm drives and two generations of 5,400-rpm drives. This all took place in part of 1999 and the beginning of 2000. Then, in 2000, WD released its own, home-grown 7,200-rpm drive with the flagship WD205BA.

 

[LOST6200]

Then, in 2000, WD released its own, home-grown 7,200-rpm drive with the flagship WD205BA.

...and IBM released the 75GXP.

 

[sechs]

What was wrong with IBM->Hitachi?

Seen any drives from Hitachi's pre-merger teams?

 

[Handruin]

No...but does it matter? I don't understand your point.

 

[sechs]

Hitachi buys IBM's drive business; no more "Hitachi" drives.
Samsung buys Western Digitial; no more "Samsung" drives.

 

[Bozo]

I think that is more marketing than anything else. I didn't know Hitachi made hard drives, but everybody has heard of IBM.

Not many outside the enthusiest group know that Samsung makes hard drives, but almost everybody has heard of WD hard drives.


Bozo :joker:

 

[Tannin]

Not many outside the enthusiest group knew that IBM made hard drives.

Oh, an Hitachi made laptop drives and SCSI drives, they didn't do standard IDE.

 

[GIANT]

Not many outside the enthusiest group knew that IBM made hard drives.

Oh, an Hitachi made laptop drives and SCSI drives, they didn't do standard IDE.

I would suspect that a vast majority of the computer illiterati believe that IBM has always manufactured hard drives and still manufactures hard drives. Only the enthusiast crowd has a general understanding that IBM sold off its hard drive manufacturing and design division to Hitachi, along with intellectual property licensing.

As for pre-IBM Hitachi hard drives: Yes, I've dealt with a few older Hitachi SCSI hard drives on a couple of occasions. Hitachi also had an oddball 12kRPM SCSI hard drive for a while (never saw one of those). For what it's worth, I have a really nice Hitachi table saw!



A message from The Grammar Police

MISSPELLING ===> CORRECT SPELLING

abberration ===> aberration
accomodation ===> accommodation
acheive ===> achieve
adress ===> address
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Caucasion ===> Caucasian
cemetary ===> cemetery
committment ===> commitment
concensus ===> consensus
concieve ===> conceive
copywrite ===> copyright
cilinder ===> cylinder
Dalmation ===> Dalmatian
decaffinated ===> decaffeinated
decathalon ===> decathlon
definately ===> definitely
dependance ===> dependence
des(s)icate ===> desiccate
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destory ===> destroy
diety ===> deity
dissapoint ===> disappoint
dispell ===> dispel
embarass ===> embarrass
enthusiest ===> enthusiast
enviroment ===> environment
expresso ===> espresso
extremly ===> extremely
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hieght, heigth ===> height
hygeine ===> hygiene
hypocracy ===> hypocrisy
independance ===> independence
inate ===> innate
innoculate ===> inoculate
intresting ===> interesting
it's ===> its (possessive pronoun)
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las(s)oo ===> lasso
lazer ===> laser
libary ===> library
lightening ===> lightning
managable ===> manageable
millenium ===> millennium
mischievious ===> mischievous
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monkies ===> monkeys
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neccessary ===> necessary
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noone ===> no one or no-one
noticable ===> noticeable
occured ===> occurred
occurence ===> occurrence
omnious ===> ominous
oppurtunity ===> opportunity
opthamologist ===> ophthalmologist
paralell ===> parallel
pasttime ===> pastime
pavillion ===> pavilion
peice ===> piece
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pheonix ===> phoenix
posession ===> possession
pertend ===> pretend
Pharoah ===> Pharaoh
phosphorous ===> phosphorus
potatoe ===> potato
preceeding ===> preceding
pronounciation ===> pronunciation
privelige ===> privilege
publically ===> publicly
rasberry ===> raspberry
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rythm ===> rhythm
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sentance ===> sentence
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speach ===> speech
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thier ===> their
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triathalon ===> triathlon
truely ===> truly
ukelele ===> ukulele
vaccuum ===> vacuum
vegeterian ===> vegetarian
villian ===> villain
Wendesday ===> Wednesday
wierd ===> weird
writting ===> writing
warantee, warunty, weewahwunty ===> warranty

 

[sechs]

I think that is more marketing than anything else.

Except that it isn't. There are no current-model Hitachi drives that have non-IBM heritage. I'm not even sure that Hitachi still has any of the non-IBM design staff left.

 

[Bozo]

Except that it isn't. There are no current-model Hitachi drives that have non-IBM heritage. I'm not even sure that Hitachi still has any of the non-IBM design staff left.

True, but I'm talking about the perception John Q Public has.
In meetings with the people holding the purse strings, on occasion I get ask about what is inside the case. (usually from someone that had his brother-n-law build a box that puked in a matter of weeks) If I tell them IBM hard drive, everybody imediately recognizes IBM. They might not know IBM makes hard drive, but they know IBM. Same with Intel. If iwould mention Hitachi, I would spend the rest of the meeting justifiing my decision.

Bozo :joker:

 

[sechs]

I would expect the opposite. And perhaps it's a question of clientele.

No body ever got fired for buying Big Blue, but it sure cost some money. Hitachi, on the other hand, is well known in consumer electronics. If I build a computer for someone, they know who Hitachi is. If I were to tell them IBM, they might question it.

 

[Handruin]

I would have to agree on the side of bozo, but you're right, it's your clientele. I would think more people know IBM than Hitachi.

 

[sechs]

Nobody has IBM televisions in their living room.

 

[Handruin]

Hitachi isn't a name I'd normally associate with televisions either even know they sell them. IBM is well known for computers in general so their name (IMHO) is more significant in the computer field than Hitachi's is for televisions.

 

[LunarMist]

Bah, even I knew that IBM invented and made hard drives and that was long before I owned a computer or heard of the internet. Until reading the SR review of the Pegasus I though that Hitachi made excavation equipment, e.g., earthmovers and such.

 

[sechs]

Sony isn't a name that I'd associate with batteries, either. But, until the recent debacle, if someone had told a consumer that his laptop had a Sony battery, he'd feel a lot better about it than if it had an IBM battery.

 

[Stereodude]

I've got a Hitachi TV

 

[time]

Turbines nuke Hitachi rating (The Australian)

The company also said it was widening the loss forecast for its hard-disk drive business, which suffered from greater than expected declines in prices. The company expected operating losses of ¥40 billion this year from hard-disk drives, compared with a ¥27 billion loss there last year. The company in April said it expected the loss to narrow this year to ¥8 billion.

"The hard-disk drive business is expected to continue to see downward pressure on prices from fierce competition," Mr Nagao said.

The article also mentions that Hitachi has ¥1.42trillion (US$12billion) in long-term debt.

 

[Ted]

Samsung replace their RA drives with new product too, not refurbished crap that falls over right away.

That's surely only guaranteed applicable from your position as a business?

I had my first Samsung failure a few months back on a SP2504C. Bloody broke my perfect record with them since my first which was a SHD-30420A (420MB) I had in a 486.

The drive I got back I couldn't discern whether new or refurb. I doubt it went to Samsung but was replaced via online stores distributor as I returned to online store I purchased from. So I haven't used Samsungs specific RA process yet.

Drive came back in same box and clamshell I sent without the traditional little pack of screws or piece of paper you would get in a new package so I was immediately suspicious. Drive replacement itself was a much earlier made version/revision and was absolutely covered with fingerprints which I wasn't impressed about at all. However, the replacement has been fine and lives amongst 2 other SP2504C models and a HD400LD.

In case you're wondering the failure first manifested itself as runaway temps via SMART while adjacent drives were fine. This was in the early hours of a very cold morning in OZ and made no sense at all. Physically touching the drive found it to be just warm as expected but certainly not hot.

Had to go to work so I shut things down to investigate later. Downloaded Samsungs diagnostic program and ran first thing after work and drive passed with no errors :weird:

I continued to use the drive (storage drive) the rest of the night while contemplating what to do about this crazy false temp problem and it was otherwise fine. Shut down the PC and went to bed and the next morning when I got up and started PC and got into windows the drive now didn't have a letter assigned and windows is offering to format it. :freaking out:

At that point I dragged everything I wanted off the drive via recovery software (while it was still running and without shutting down again). When completed I shut down and went to work (late).

Next arvo turned PC back on and damn thing is making the odd scratchy grinding sound at boot we all dread to hear.

Reset PC with Samsung diagnostic floppy in A: and ran test again, and NOW it's showing large amount of errors. RA time. Turnaround though for replacement was under 2 weeks which wasn't so bad.

My first Samsung failure, and most recent failure I've had in a new HDD since a pair of U series Seagates went 2 for 2 on me in first week of ownership back in S7 days. Horid drives they were with the rubber cover to shut the things up.

 

[i]

Has anyone mentioned this patch from Samsung before? I did a search here but didn't find any mention of it.

This surprised me:

* Symptom
Release the patch for an error prevention

* Cause
Reason For Patch: Error prevention which might be caused during format or OS install of HDD manufactured between Feb. 2006 and Mar.2006

* Solution
1. Issued Model: 3.5 inch HDD ( SP2014N / SP2514N / SP2004C / SP2504C / HD040HJ / HD080HJ / HD120IJ / HD160JJ / SP1253N / SP1654N )

A similar patch is available for their 2.5 inch models manufactured during the same time frame.

 

[i]

I was considering the SP2504C when I came across that patch. Now I'm not so sure I wouldn't be better off with a cheaper Hitachi.