Storage Forum New York City Tour Guide

jtr1962

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OK, it's official. I'm now Storage Forum's New York City tour guide(an unofficial title I have bestowed upon myself), and I'll explain how this came to be.

Several months ago Cliptin e-mailed me and expressed a desire to see NYC for himself. I offered my opinions on some things of personal interest besides the usual tourist traps since I think anyone visiting a place should get a good perspective on it, not just the narrow-minded view that visiting only tourist spots brings. Several e-mails later, he was able to set aside a week to tour the city, and we spent the better part of a day together seeing some sights of interest. Initially, we hadn't planned to meet personally, but he suggested it and I thought it was a good idea as well. I enjoyed his company and I was quite happy with the way things turned out other than a slight transportation-induced fiasco likely caused by weekend/holiday subway track work.

First, he took the 7 train to downtown Flushing(i.e. Chinatown II). I gave him the grand tour, and we had a bite to eat. Afterwards, we hopped the subway to Ground Zero, and spent several hours touring the general area(yes, it can take that long due to all the little things of interest in the most unlikely places, and it changes every time I come). I then showed him Battery Park where the Sphere sculpture(officially called Commerce Through Peace, actually) is temporarily on loan, and we had a rather bizarre hour-long dissertation from a man who apparently knew every fact about the Twin Towers. This encounter was very interesting, informative, unexpected, and very New York. You just never knew who you'll bump into randomly walking around.

Afterwards, we walked to Chinatown to get a bite to eat(more for him than me since I was still full from my late lunch), toured around a bit more, and then decided to call it a night around 10. This was when the subway fiasco began. We boarded the E train at Canal St., and he had to transfer to the downtown #5 at 53rd and Lexington. The E-train was actually fine to get me most of the way home, but I went with him to make the transfer because the station is rather cavernous and poorly marked. As you would know it, the downtown #5 wasn't making all stops(i.e. it wasn't stopping at that station), so we went uptown to 86th with the intention of crossing over and taking the #6 express back downtown. Of course, as luck would have it, the 86th station didn't have a cross-over so it was either exit and re-enter on the other side(at the cost of a fare) or wait maybe 15 minutes for the next train and cross-over at 125 Street. I did the latter, he did the former since he had an all-day subway pass, and as of this writing I assume he got to his destination OK within perhaps half an hour. As for myself, without going into more boring details, a series of delays and late night subway operations meant that I didn't get home until 2 hours later. I didn't care too much since aimlessly riding the subways is an occasional pastime of mine, I just wasn't in the mood to do it at 11 PM that particular day.

I'm sure we'll both fill you in on more details as this thread develops, but my reason for writing this is to extend an open invitation to everyone at SF to come and visit New York. If you like, and if it fits both our schedules, I can even give personal tours. :). I've gotten certain impressions of the people here from their posts, and it's really interesting to see how the real person differs from the online persona. Perhaps some day, I can even return the favor and visit some of the people who come here. So come one, come all, bring your friends, girlfriends, wives, kids, whoever. The more the merrier, and I personally think the city is at it's best during the Christmas holidays. :mrgrn:
 

Mercutio

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I'd ask for advice prior to travel in your neighborhood, but truthfully I'm not much of a face to face sort of person, jtr. Like Faust before Mephistopheles, I'd rather learn from books than learn from living.

Other than the single branch of the Smithsonian I've never visited I don't think there's much in NYC that holds my interest. The Met, I suppose.

Truth is, I live 40 miles from another world-class city and I only visit the one so close to me a couple times a year. Usually someone else's idea, too. Working doesn't count, of course.

Is "Ground Zero" as maudlin as I think it must be?

Perhaps our tourguide should be a travel agent and promoter as well.
 

jtr1962

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Mercutio, I definitely understand where you're coming from. I'm a self-described introvert myself(with new people, anyway), so I was initially a bit hesitant about the whole thing of meeting Cliptin face-to-face, but it worked out OK. If it didn't, I would just have added it to the long list of things that didn't quite work out in my life. I personally prefer learning through books and discussion boards like this one. I really don't like talking on the phone much for some reason. I just seems rather impersonal, and there's only so much you can get across verbally as opposed to in writing, or face-to-face. And one thing I would never do would be to go on a blind date. I can't think of anything more awkward than being stuck with someone for a few hours if it turns out that they're not your type, so I would never put myself in that situation.

I know exactly what you mean about living near Chicago since I'm in a similar position. Truth be told, I've only traveled to a handful of states, and went to Canada once(when I was 11) for the simple reason that NYC has just about everything that I find of interest. I'm sure I'd like Chicago if I ever actually got around to doing some traveling, but that's not in the cards for the near future. I like one-day local excursions, but I'm not that thrilled about living out of a suitcase, so it'll likely be a while, if ever, before I do any serious traveling.

Regarding Ground Zero, you still see signs everywhere of what went on. It hit home for Cliptin when he saw a makeshift triage sign spray painted on a wall. There are also pictures of dead people everywhere, and you occasionally here some rather unsettling stories. The man we met in Battery Park was talking about how one of his co-workers was cut to shreds while he was manually shutting down the elevators. A friend of one of my mother's friends decided to go down while one of his co-workers went back up. He later found out that they found one of her hands in the rubble. So it's not a tourist spot like Disneyland, but people feel a need to come either out of morbid curiosity, or perhaps because it makes them feel more connected to the whole thing.
 

flagreen

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Good Man jtr1962.

I don't know if I'll ever take you up on it but it's damned decent of you to offer.

[Midnight Cowboy flashback] How did a country bumpkin from Tennessee like Clipton make out in the big city? [/Midnight Cowboy flashback]. :)
 

CougTek

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jtr1962 said:
A friend of one of my mother's friends decided to go down while one of his co-workers went back up. He later found out that they found one of her hands in the rubble.
Cool, can we bring back this sort of souvenirs if we find one?[/jk]

They are supposed to start to resconstruct the first building that'll fill the empty space left by the Towers soon. The site must be almost clear by now, isn't it? Is there still the nasty odor there was after the attack?
 

James

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Well, as mentioned before I'm going to Boca Raton FL at the end of next month (June) for the annual sales conference.* I think I owe Bill a bottle of nice wine or somesuch for his efforts with the TiVo, and I might hook up with Eugene if he's nearby.

And if anyone's coming to Sydney, we'd be very happy to put you up (two spare beds!) and give you the unofficial tour. Sharon's really not that bad, despite the fact that computer storage doesn't really interest her. ;)

I still think a get-together in (say) Melbourne for the several Aussies is a good idea. I realise that I'm the one organising it, so I should get my crap together and do something about it. I know Jake, Tony (et al) and Pradeep expressed some interest when I raised it about 9 months ago (okay, okay, going to Japan for three months stuffed up my timetables).

* Due to the general downturn we didn't get a conference last year; it was supposed to be in Malta. I'm sad we didn't go, I've always been fascinated by Malta and the Knights of St John - great story! The year prior we went to Kota Kinabalu in Malaysia (on the island of Borneo) which was terrific and sort of depressing at the same time.
 

jtr1962

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CougTek said:
They are supposed to start to resconstruct the first building that'll fill the empty space left by the Towers soon. The site must be almost clear by now, isn't it? Is there still the nasty odor there was after the attack?

Actually, that's WTC 7 you're referring to, and it's on the block next to the main site. I think they're going to start rebuilding within a year, and it's scheduled to be finished by 2005.

The main site is just about clear(the last standing beam of WTC1 is going to be removed in a ceremony on May 30). The first order of business will then be rebuilding the subway tunnels, and this was already started a few weeks ago. As for what will eventually be built there, who knows? I just hope it is not the awful idea of 4 55-story buildings.

The odor you're referring to lasted for a few months after the attacks, basically until the last fires were put out. It was a rather acrid combination of burning fuel, plastic office furniture, and flesh, so you can imagine the atmosphere down there. I first went two weeks after the fact. Besides the odor, many stores were closed and filled with several inches of dust, all of the nearby buildings were covered in ash as high as twenty stories, and nearly all the windows of nearby buildings facing the site were blown out. What was left of the towers was clearly visible, as were the burned out hulks of WTC 4, 5, and 6. Combined with the presence of the soldiers and National Guard, it was like a scene straight out of a disaster movie. There was also the indescribable feeling of impending doom being there at that time, which thankfully has subsided. I'm now able to look at the whole thing in a much more objective fashion than 6 months ago.
 

jtr1962

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James said:
And if anyone's coming to Sydney, we'd be very happy to put you up (two spare beds!) and give you the unofficial tour. Sharon's really not that bad, despite the fact that computer storage doesn't really interest her. ;)

Sounds good, although as I mentioned above I don't know when I'll get around to doing some serious traveling. I'll definitely take you up on it should I go to Sydney, however. :)

P.S. I really wish I could offer people coming here some spare beds, especially with New York hotels being as expensive as they are, but as I currently live with my parents, that's not really up to me.
 

Jake the Dog

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i just had my trip to rochester cancelled (no o/s travel in q3) so i miss out on the opportunity to take you up on your offer jtr :(


james, i'm still keen to get togther with everyone. if you give me a few months i'd be happy to organise it. just a but busy atm. one of these days i'm going to take the car for a nice long drive and pop in and see tony. of course i won't fess up as to whom i am for a while :p who knows, maybe i will buy a V40 (or V60 if tony has them) and become a customer anyway.
 

CougTek

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I might visit old Bill someday. Take him for a ride in a park and push his wheelchair ;-)

But for the next two or three years, trips aren't part of my agenda.
 

Buck

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Jake the Dog said:
i just had my trip to rochester cancelled (no o/s travel in q3) so i miss out on the opportunity to take you up on your offer jtr :(


james, i'm still keen to get togther with everyone. if you give me a few months i'd be happy to organise it. just a but busy atm. one of these days i'm going to take the car for a nice long drive and pop in and see tony. of course i won't fess up as to whom i am for a while :p who knows, maybe i will buy a V40 (or V60 if tony has them) and become a customer anyway.

Hehehe, yeah, stop by Redhill and cause a ruckus in the store. Although, you probably won't find Tony at the store, just Kristi.
 

Mercutio

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I guess we 'mericans wouldn't be able to get away with anything like that, were we to make the trip. Oz is a place I would visit, if for no other reason than to prove to myself that it isn't really like all those damn "Crocodile Dundee" movies.

On SR a few days ago, Tannin mentioned that, when he's depressed, he thinks Oz is a "second rate" knock-off of the US. I hope it's not that bad. I'm thinking it's more like a knock-off of Canada, if Canada were populated by a majority of jocks.

At least, better that that Tannin's notion.
 

jtr1962

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flagreen said:
Good Man jtr1962.
[Midnight Cowboy flashback] How did a country bumpkin from Tennessee like Clipton make out in the big city? [/Midnight Cowboy flashback]. :)

Funny you should ask. :lol:

Actually, I thought he was getting along quite well. He even said he was able to get around better by subway than above ground. Of course, he and his family still need to dress the part(i.e. wear black, the unofficial New York City color, and no, it has nothing to do with mourning about the WTC disaster-people have been wearing black here ever since I could remember).

I sure he'll fill you in on more details when he gets back home later this week or next week.
 

Jake the Dog

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Mercutio said:
On SR a few days ago, Tannin mentioned that, when he's depressed, he thinks Oz is a "second rate" knock-off of the US. I hope it's not that bad. I'm thinking it's more like a knock-off of Canada, if Canada were populated by a majority of jocks.

At least, better that that Tannin's notion.


tannin is 100% wrong. tannin in evil. shame on tannin.
 

CougTek

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Mercutio said:
. I'm thinking it's more like a knock-off of Canada, if Canada were populated by a majority of jocks.
Could you please tell me what "jocks" means? I won't take it personal BTW, I'm not Canadian.

jtr1962 said:
(i.e. wear black, the unofficial New York City color, and no, it has nothing to do with mourning about the WTC disaster-people have been wearing black here ever since I could remember)
I would probably feel more like home in New York than here then. It means I have looked like a New Yorker for the past several years without even knowing. Do New Yorkers wear steel cap boots all the time and leather coats too? Just wondering.
 

Mercutio

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From dictionary.com:

jock2 Pronunciation Key (jk)
n.
An athletic supporter.
Sports. An athlete, especially in college.
Slang. One characterized by excessive concern for machismo.

[Short for jockstrap.]
--
I meant it in the last sense. Personally I'm not too fond of that type of individual.
 

CougTek

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i said:
You're not Canadian?
My ancestors were from French (long, long ago) and Scottish (relatively recent) origins. I have nothing in common with the British-loving Loyalists that have been kicked out North by the Americans more than centuries ago and who have become what the rest of the world associates to "Canadians".
 

jtr1962

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Mercutio said:
I guess we 'mericans wouldn't be able to get away with anything like that, were we to make the trip. Oz is a place I would visit, if for no other reason than to prove to myself that it isn't really like all those damn "Crocodile Dundee" movies.

I don't know about you, but I've always visualized Tannin looking like Crocodile Dundee. :lol: I know that's probably 100% inaccurate(just the product of my overactive imagination). As for what Oz would look like, I've always thought of either the "Mad Max" movies, or what I saw of it on TV during the last summer Olympics. I'm sure that impression isn't 100% accurate, either. :)

Hopefully, I'll see for myself one day.
 

jtr1962

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CougTek said:
I would probably feel more like home in New York than here then. It means I have looked like a New Yorker for the past several years without even knowing. Do New Yorkers wear steel cap boots all the time and leather coats too? Just wondering.

Leather is fairly popular among the under 30 crowd, but I'm not sure about the steel cap boots. I just never notice what people are wearing on their feet for some reason. If black is your color, you'll fit right in, especially in the Asian sections of the city(Chinatown and Flushing), which is where I usually hang out.

BTW, Montreal is the only city outside the United States that I visited. It was a nice city when I went there in 1973. How is it these days? Maybe I'll come up again sometime since it's just a few hours by either road or rail.
 

i

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CougTek said:
My ancestors were from French (long, long ago) and Scottish (relatively recent) origins. I have nothing in common with the British-loving Loyalists that have been kicked out North by the Americans more than centuries ago and who have become what the rest of the world associates to "Canadians".

But you live in the country called Canada though, right? Were you born there?
 

i

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jtr1962 said:
I don't know about you, but I've always visualized Tannin looking like Crocodile Dundee. :lol: I know that's probably 100% inaccurate(just the product of my overactive imagination). As for what Oz would look like, I've always thought of either the "Mad Max" movies, or what I saw of it on TV during the last summer Olympics. I'm sure that impression isn't 100% accurate, either. :)


Heehee. I'd guess most Americans think of Paul Hogan when someone mentions Australia. If you find someone especially bright, they'll add, "oh yeah ... and Nicole Kidman." Or maybe, "hey ... isn't Mel Gibson from Australia too?"

Personally, my image of Australia includes a lot of semi-desert land, and more recently, hundreds of types of poisonous insects. :wink:

Oh wait ... don't they have a lot of sheep in Australia too? Do they roam the streets? If so, what do you do about them Tannin? Do they make a mess in the shop? :wink:
 

CougTek

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i said:
But you live in the country called Canada though, right? Were you born there?
I'm born in Québec, which isn't in the Canadian constitution since 1982 (or was it 1981, I never remember). Although not officially a country, Québec is also not really Canada either. Of course, I'm born well before 1981 when both Québec and Canada shared a common constitution, but no matter what I look that is "canadian" (people, flag, RCMP, beaver), I don't feel I'm concern/related to it.

Canada has always been a forced wedding between two people who were not made to live together. It's more than time to do a divorce. The same is true for Scotland and England IMO. But that's a whole different story.
 

CougTek

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Canadians aren't Frenchies. If you dare to speak French in Canada, people will, most of the time, either ignore you or answer in English, even if they understood what you said. But they expect you to talk to them in English IN Québec though, a behavior that makes me see red, turns my skin to green and pumps me so much that my clothes tears up.
 

Prof.Wizard

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Wait a sec... isn't Québec the French-speaking part of Canada? Well, not 100% but at least almost everyone is bilingual and the region's history is culturally tied with France.

I, from the other hand, get angry with all these kinds of situation. Oh please don't get me wrong... I don't say that Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Catalunya, Pais Basque, Padania (Northern Italy), or every other "forced married" region on this earth is rightly occupied... but since you're part of a group, either you want it either not, you have to cooperate...

I like Federalism. For example, I like how the German Länder and Spain's Comunidades Autónomas function...

Spain's example?
That's why Catalunya (Barcelona's region) thrives!
That's why Pais Basque will never become independent...

Conserve your language. Conserve your culture. Conserve your customs. But since all fronts are falling are falling, just bear with it.

VV Toronto! :p
 

CougTek

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Prof.Wizard said:
but since you're part of a group, either you want it either not, you have to cooperate...
Did I read you have to? I don't have to do anything for Canada and Canadians. As for cooperation, fine, but they better be very humble and very polite with me when they are on my land.

Prof.Wizard said:
I like Federalism.
Yeah, you like Microsoft too.

Prof.Wizard said:
Conserve your language. Conserve your culture. Conserve your customs. But since all fronts are falling are falling, just bear with it.
Bear with it? Bear Canadians? Bear Canadians telling me how to run MY business in MY country? NEVER! As for keeping our customs and our language, well that's the main reason behind separatism. Every attempt to make them understand that we need special rights to control our culture has failed so far. It doesn't seem to get into their heads that it's a lot harder to preserve a culture when you're just 6 million French-speaking people surrounded by 300 million of English than it is for other parts of their so-called Canada. I don't really put the blame on the back of Canadians, I blame the bunch of stuck imbeciles who lead them for it (canadian politicians, in which I include the betrayers like Chrétien/Trudeau who shit on our heads as much as the blokes). Since words cannot convince them, the next step would be to try our middle finger and get rid of their intrusion in our bunisesses (where they have nothing to do, despite what they seem to think).

I'm a lot more at ease with Aussies and Americans than I'll ever be with Canadians.

Anyway, it's a vain discussion.
 

Prof.Wizard

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CougTek said:
Yeah, you like Microsoft too.
OT, untrue, but... whatever!
Anyway, it's a vain discussion.
I know. Since you have Canadian passport...

-------------
Federalism has worked in many parts of Europe... I don't see why it can't work in Canada. However you gave me an insight I wasn't aware of....
 

CougTek

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Prof.Wizard said:
I know. Since you have Canadian passport...
You know what? I don't have any passport. I don't even need one to go to United States either.

Prof.Wizard said:
Federalism has worked in many parts of Europe... I don't see why it can't work in Canada. However you gave me an insight I wasn't aware of....
Here's another insight : U.K. AFAIK refuses to share a common currency with the rest of Europe. U.K. doesn't want to have their currency controlled by anyone else than themselve and especially not by France. I'm not sure, but I don't think U.K. is/wants to be part of E.U.

If you Europeans can't find out how to agree with the British (and contrarily to us, you outnumber them on your side of the Atlantic), what makes you think that we should/could with their american relatives? With them, it's always their way or no way. That's fine with me, as long as they let us do the same.
 

Prof.Wizard

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CougTek said:
You know what? I don't have any passport. I don't even need one to go to United States either.
Yeah, but that's how far you can go pal.

Prof.Wizard said:
Here's another insight : U.K. AFAIK refuses to share a common currency with the rest of Europe. U.K. doesn't want to have their currency controlled by anyone else than themselve and especially not by France. I'm not sure, but I don't think U.K. is/wants to be part of E.U.
LOL. I don't blame you. You don't know the latest developments. Now most British want the monetary union and most (open-minded) already blame their goverment of NOT accepting the Euro.
If you Europeans can't find out how to agree with the British (and contrarily to us, you outnumber them on your side of the Atlantic), what makes you think that we should/could with their american relatives? With them, it's always their way or no way. That's fine with me, as long as they let us do the same.
You know this is exactly the problem with the British. They sometimes step on earth and believe they're doing her a favor. They think all the rest of the world is driving on the wrong side... and stuff like that, you get the picture!
You are right. It's a matter of power and who's on the steering wheel of the EU. However, the UK has already lost even if they don't accept it. The game is between France and Germany. UK might compete with Italy if it wants... (LOL, watch out for Spain... it's coming fast from behind!)
Britain has been accused many times by us, the rest of the EU, of NOT being 100% heart and soul European. Of course, Britain (the last empire!) needs a special treating, but they have to decide on which part of the Atlantic they are.

Coug, I'll contact a friend of mine (French... er, Quebecean from your city) on ICQ and ask him his point of view.

BTW, I didn't know that the Commonwealth was creating such major problems. Tannin, can you explain me why on earth a couple of years ago you voted to maintain the Queen's head on your currency?! :-?
 

i

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I'm American. I decided (unwisely) to go to university up in Canada. I say unwisely because my decision was founded primarily on the notion that it was the furthest I could afford to get away from my parents at the time. :wink: What happened of course was that I wound up with a heck of a lot of debt anyway, and a degree that generally does less for me back here than something from an American college would have. Anyway...

While I was there, a number of people offered their viewpoint about Quebec. Many immediately complained that every year Quebec accepts a truckload (yes I know, a technical term) of cash from the federal government - what's called a transfer payment; an attempt at redistributing federal tax dollars from provinces that are doing well, to those are not doing so well. The only part of Canada that gets a larger payment than Quebec is eastern Canada (so the story went anyway). What they complained about this Quebec "sovereignty" plan was that Quebec essentially wanted to become its own country, but still be associated enough with Canada to accept cash from the Canadian government. I don't know what the details were supposed to be, but they seemed to have a problem with that.

CougTek said:
Bear with it? Bear Canadians? Bear Canadians telling me how to run MY business in MY country? NEVER! As for keeping our customs and our language, well that's the main reason behind separatism. Every attempt to make them understand that we need special rights to control our culture has failed so far.

Umm ... I was in Ontario in what, 1995? The year that Quebec held a referendum to decide whether to separate or not. It was a close vote, but Quebec voted against separation. Against! Even admitting it was a close vote, it would mean that 50% of your neighbors voted to stay in Canada.

The only personal comment I can add to any of this is that I balk at that "your" country / "my" country stuff. It's land. It's been inhabited by people from different cultures for thousands of years. You remember the native Americans, right? Whether you believe they came from Asia or Europe (or both), they arrived here in North America waaaay before most of us did. Don't they get any recognition? Isn't much of northern Quebec mostly populated by native peoples, even today? I'll bet they'd like to separate too.

CougTek said:
It doesn't seem to get into their heads that it's a lot harder to preserve a culture when you're just 6 million French-speaking people surrounded by 300 million of English than it is for other parts of their so-called Canada. I don't really put the blame on the back of Canadians, I blame the bunch of stuck imbeciles who lead them for it (canadian politicians, in which I include the betrayers like Chrétien/Trudeau who shit on our heads as much as the blokes). Since words cannot convince them, the next step would be to try our middle finger and get rid of their intrusion in our bunisesses (where they have nothing to do, despite what they seem to think).

I also remember the speech from that Parizeau (sp?) guy after the referendum failed. The problem is the "ethnics" in Quebec. Nice! I can't believe he said that on national TV.

And as for this English vs. French argument that keeps coming up, it always makes me laugh. Languages change. Cultures change. Cougtek, look at me here in North Carolina! There are more and more days when I think to myself that I need to learn Spanish!

Closer to home, have you been to Toronto? I have ... and in some places it seems as though English and French are totally irrelevant! Same goes for Banff out in Alberta (is it Alberta? I've never been there but a friend went, and he had frequent opportunity to practice his Japanese while he was there!)

The admittedly few people I ever talked to from Quebec about all this, usually just rolled their eyes when I brought up the subject. A few spoke more French than I could interpret. Actually, come to think of it, maybe that was their point. Anyway, thanks for trying Coug, but I don't think I'll ever figure Canada out.
 

flagreen

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Actually there are no "native" people in the Americas. Those referred to as "native" migrated from Asia during the last ice age. IMO they have no more claim to any land, nor right to any special privileges than any one else living in the Americas today.
 

Prof.Wizard

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Actually after all these population movements of the last 4-5 centuries (especially the last!) it's really hard to say who's native or not...

Do you really know who was banging your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-mother?
You may even have 1/32 Iraqi* genes without even knowing it... :eek:


*insert here the disturbing population you WOULDN'T want to be part of...
 

Prof.Wizard

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Jan 26, 2002
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CougTek said:
You know what? I don't have any passport. I don't even need one to go to United States either.
Come to think of it... why don't we all give up our national passports and use only our Microsoft .NET ones?! :roll:

Do-oh!
 

i

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Feb 10, 2002
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1,080
flagreen said:
Actually there are no "native" people in the Americas. Those referred to as "native" migrated from Asia during the last ice age. IMO they have no more claim to any land, nor right to any special privileges than any one else living in the Americas today.

That was my point, Flagreen!

No one has any right to any special privileges than anyone else living in the Americas today.
 
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