Bozo
Storage? I am Storage!
I haven't seen a new post since Merc's at 12:18AM.
Something wrong?
Something wrong?
Strange
- Thread starter Bozo
- Start date
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Maybe everyone is on vacation?
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
Shhh, you'll wake the neighbours...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
My posts about Thor and Batman are irrefutable!
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Be careful you fool! Last time someone started a thread like this, it wound up turning into a 1274532312235 page monster!
ddrueding
Fixture
Work as just been crazy. Google rolled out a new update to their apps platform; took several users offline for an hour or more. A couple conflicts with projects that used to be separate and are now integrated (YouTube).
Maybe it is one of those Buchner, Buchner days. :colors:
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Do you mean Bueller?
Stereodude
Not really a
Apparently not. (post 7082 - 7084)
Stereodude
Not really a
Now today is a quiet day.
Ohh yeah. Welcome to the cloud. Clouds can't hurt you. Nothing to be afraid of in the cloud... no....
ddrueding
Fixture
Still beats the heck out of administering those services/servers myself.
Google's longest outage was was shorter than my longest call with MS on an Exchange issue by at least 12 hours.
Google's longest outage was was shorter than my longest call with MS on an Exchange issue by at least 12 hours.
Actually it has been very busy. A good number of dead bodies over the usual and some injuries only. I don't have to work until Tuesday, but I may put in a 1/2 shift on Monday.
ddrueding
Fixture
Is a "good" number of dead bodies high or low?
Yes it probably does. But is it right for the business?
Personally, I'm sick to death of hearing about how the cloud will revolutionise everything. It won't. For some it will work well, for others it won't. This cloud mantra is being pushed by those with something to gain. Or by some lower senior management person who can tie their PKI to cost reduction, while glossing over the business service reduction when an outage hits. Then it becomes a finger pointing game. Meanwhile said management type has departed, making a name for themselves as an efficiency expert. Everything comes at a cost. Including uptime.
As for your second point. No doubt about that as well. So far. The cynic in me says that's what you get for using Exchange, but I know that Exchange has come a long way since it's "Jet engine " roots. I don't consider myself nearly as knowledgeable as many of my peers, but despite having service contracts in place with some "very" large organisations, I have yet to encounter a problem where I've raised a support call with them that I have not solved first. So far.
I deal with data that has some fairly stringent availability and privacy requirements. So far, "the cloud" isn't the answer. And from what I've seen in directions statements, it won't be. Unless some of those restrictions are relaxed. Alternatively, you could probably get a cloud provider to provide the necessary service, but then the cost advantage goes away.
Different requirements, different solutions. I am wary of anybody who says "one size fits all".
ddrueding
Fixture
You are the first I've heard use the phrase "one size fits all" referencing hosted software. I also don't use the term "Cloud", as it glosses over many of the particulars.
There are servers somewhere, run by someone else, that provide us a service. As you have alluded to, this is not the technique that those with stringent availability or privacy requirements.
This is just another tool, though it sounds like you have a dislike of it?
There are servers somewhere, run by someone else, that provide us a service. As you have alluded to, this is not the technique that those with stringent availability or privacy requirements.
This is just another tool, though it sounds like you have a dislike of it?
ddrueding
Fixture
IPOy?
Not a dislike, I just recognise the limitations. And also, the "one size fits all" was a literary exaggeration to illustrate a point. People who have a barrow to push tout "cloud computing" to those that don't understand the limitations and implications of software as a service. Then those people who like the sound of what they have been sold start agitating to implement this "future direction". If I want evangelism, I'll watch early Sunday morning TV. The fact that I don't get up early Sunday mornings to grab my weekly dose of redemption should speak volumes.
I am more than happy to discuss the issues around cloud computing with those that have put in the time to understand the issues. When someone raises the issue because of one hour presentation they heard at a "management retreat", I am less accommodating.
Yes it's a tool, and useful. But only one of many. I did think that I had alluded to that in my first post. Perhaps I was not clear?
ddrueding
Fixture
Sorry, LiamC, I see that we are agreed on the matter.
I find it difficult to get mad at the tools though, the middle managers are the target of my frustrations. Implementing more and more expensive patches and upgrades to cover their butts when the first decision didn't pan out is my least favorite.
I find it difficult to get mad at the tools though, the middle managers are the target of my frustrations. Implementing more and more expensive patches and upgrades to cover their butts when the first decision didn't pan out is my least favorite.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
My other favourite one, is that this "cloud" stuff is new technology... despite the fact people like IBM were renting mainframe space back in the 1960's, 1970s and 1980's...
Heck even Tripod.com where offering web hosting (what is termed PaaS today) from about 1994...
I've certainly seen the "cloud" mantra being promoted quite heavily (especially at Uni), despite the inherit risks with any service. But then again it all comes down to risk management - with the 2 primary points being:
1. How often will an advise effect occur?
2. What is impact if one is to occur?
During a lecture last year on cloud services, I asked the invited guest giving the lecture (who was a cloud evangelist) some very simple questions:
If something does go wrong and you have significant business impact, in which countries court do you sue the provider? (Good luck taking on Microsoft, Amazon or Google in any case).
What are the ramifications of breaking a foreign law in having your data physically located in that country, despite you not really knowing that was the case. (eg you didn't know where your data was, and you had no idea that the data you had in the "cloud" was potentially illegal in some countries).
What recourse do you have, if the cloud provider is bought out by another provider who don't care about any previous provisions or agreements you had with the old provider...
All 3 questions came back with "I don't know" or "that hasn't happened", or "you have an existing contract".
Man I love the cloud...
Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
Did you shoot them?
ddrueding
Fixture
I have an on-site copy of all my "cloud" data in an open and accessible format. I could re-create all the services and data locally in half a day. I could get all the clients redirected and staff trained within a week. This disaster recovery plan has been approved by the boss. I'm thinking that if it wasn't acceptable, having the data pulled directly into backup servers here and scripting the workstation changes would make it a very fast turnaround.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
He's probably more some kind of forensic expert for the FBI or another large law-enforcement organisation.
Huh? You watch too much CSI up there. :-D
time
Storage? I am Storage!
How do you keep that in sync with Gmail?
time
Storage? I am Storage!
You use WHO codes, I imagine? We used to have arguments over how to interpret the PM COD, eg. did death result from gross abdominal trauma or blood loss?
ddrueding
Fixture
An app that logs into each mailbox and syncs with a local message store. I don't remember the name of it, I just googled for something. Yes, I need to know the password to every mailbox, and yes, that is a PITA.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
To be honest, you're probably the first person I heard actually have a good/decent remediation plan if something dos go wrong. Kudos. :cheers:
Besides Google Apps, do you have anything else in the cloud? (If you don't mind me asking)? If so, how are you getting your data, and what alternate service do you plan on using? How easy is the data migration, and have you actually tested it?
Actually, very interested in what your plan is with gmail? You've mentioned you sync each mailbox, but what are you thinking of deploying as a replacement and how to import all that data?
That seems a bit crazy. So if there are 5,000 users you need to do each one manuallly or you have a key file of some kind?
I am only the business owner of one computer system at work, but whoever has the sysadmin role is not allowed to know any passwords. Users are trained not to give out their passwords under any circumstances. Sysadmins can reset passwords, but then the users are forced to change them before working in the system. There is a long precendent of security and legal reasons for that, both in the US and internationally. :spiderman:
time
Storage? I am Storage!
All confected. I'm confident that executives have no idea how much power key IT administrators have in their organizations. DBAs are a classic case; you have to trust them implicitly.
For Exchange, the very first Google match gave me instructions on how to grant full access to users' mailboxes.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
From my experience, most don't.
In small organisations with 2-3 IT staff, then they know all passwords or authority to reset passwords to all key systems if needed.
But from what I've seen in very large organisations, IT itself is very segregated, with you only know what you need to know to get your job down. eg The network guys have no access to the DBs, the DBAs have no access to the network stuff, the ones that look after the file servers, have no access to the network or DB stuff, etc. You may only find 1 or 2 people who have authority and the access to all key passwords or passphrases in order to do something. And 99% of the time, those 1 or 2 people don't know how to do any of it, but only know which safe/vault the envelopes are stored that have that key information.
ddrueding
Fixture
Ideally, I wouldn't know any passwords. I do have the ability to change them, and would use that if I have to. Because this is required for backup, I set the passwords and inform the users. This has the advantage of being good passwords on a reasonable rotation that aren't duplicates.
Having a custom gmail plugin (or FF plugin) that syncs periodically to your local store on its own would be a nice way to roll out to all your end users so you don't have to keep an updated list of their passwords. Doesn't the google apps have an admin account that can get into any mailbox anyway?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
It would not be entirely unreasonable to just have something on-site downloading everyone's E-mail via POP, but that doesn't help for contacts and calendar stuff. One nice thing about Thunderbird is that it's not terribly difficult to make it sync all that stuff so that local copies exist, though I do understand that not everyone wants to use something like Thunderbird.