surfs up, lets go!

flagreen

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That must be Steve Irwin on the board. Get 'em Stevo! Where's Terry?
 

CougTek

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Nope, it's a shark. And by the shape of the fin and its size compared to the swimmer (around 4 meters long I would say), a great white. Dolphins' fin is lower on their back and it isn't as sharp. Dolphins have a horizontal tail, while this one is vertical. Also, Dolphins' body near the tail is much larger than shark's. The fish on the picture has a slim body near the tail, so it's a shark.

I will add that the guy is pretty stupid to wear a black suit (seal-like) in water where this kind of killer roams.
 

jtr1962

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CougTek said:
Nope, it's a shark. And by the shape of the fin and its size compared to the swimmer (around 4 meters long I would say), a great white.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Anybody remember Jaws? I never went to the beach again after I saw that movie. Since I was a kid when I saw it I was even afraid in the bathtub for a few months afterwards.

Assuming this picture isn't Photoshopped that guy is nuts to be anywhere near the water.
 

CougTek

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If being in the same water where great whites live is nut, then several thousands of people in South Africa, Hawaii and southern Australia are nut. Jaws is a movie. While there are great white sharks of the size (in lenght, head size in the movie was greatly exagerated) of the one in the movie, the majority are much smaller. IIRC, the shark in Jaws (at least the first one) was 21 feet long. Most great whites are around 12-16 feet long.



Most of the shark attacks on people are mistakes. Shark believes it is about to bite a seal (often because of the surf board shape and dark swimmer clothes). There is around 2-3 deaths per year caused by great white sharks IIRC. There's only been a few cases in history when white sharks have been known to select humans as preys (South Africa's beaches in the early 50's comes to mind).



The nastiest sharks on Earth are probably those (found in only one place) called the "flying jaws". I've seen a documentary about them on the Discovery channel last year. Those are really scary and they would probably attack a human swimmer NOT by mistake. The only place they are found is around an island where there's a seal colonny.



Humans have killed far more sharks than the other way around.
 

SteveC

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CougTek said:
Most of the shark attacks on people are mistakes. Shark believes it is about to bite a seal (often because of the surf board shape and dark swimmer clothes). There is around 2-3 deaths per year caused by great white sharks IIRC. There's only been a few cases in history when white sharks have been known to select humans as preys (South Africa's beaches in the early 50's comes to mind).
Yep, it's very rare. There was a case in 1916, where a shark killed 4 people in Jersey, and created a panic, but the vast majority of the time, they will have nothing to do with humans. Last summer, I went tuna fishing and sharking on my Godfather's boat, about 60 miles off the Jersey shore, and we had a 15-20 foot, 1,000 pound Tiger shark swim slowly by our boat. But it completely ignored us, and the chum bait, and kept swimming on its way.
 

Jake the Dog

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from the Florida Museum of Natural History; The International Shark Attack File 2002 Summary:

Three fatalities occurred in 2002, down from five in 2001 and 13 in 2000. The 5% fatality rate was significantly lower than the 1990's decade average of 13%. The three fatalities occurred in Australia (2) and Brazil (1).

As in recent years, the bulk (82%: 48 attacks) of incidents occurred in North American waters, including 47 from the United States and one in the Bahamas. The 47 attacks in the United States were less than the 2001 (53) and 2000 (54) yearly figures. Elsewhere, attacks occurred in Australia (6), Brazil (3), South Africa (2), and Costa Rica (1).
read more here.
 

CougTek

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Steve, I hope this was meant to be funny. Hammerhead sharks are mid-size sharks. They rarely mesure more than 10 feet long and they are much ligher than great whites.

The only shark that could have been that big was the now extincted carcharodon megalodon, a 60 feet long great white shark that lived a few million years ago.
 

Prof.Wizard

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CougTek said:
Steve, I hope this was meant to be funny. Hammerhead sharks are mid-size sharks. They rarely mesure more than 10 feet long and they are much ligher than great whites.

The only shark that could have been that big was the now extincted carcharodon megalodon, a 60 feet long great white shark that lived a few million years ago.
Although it pains me, I have to agree with CougTek.
That's definitely a home-made photo.
 

CityK

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No it is a dolphin.

- The perspective of the guy on the board is misleading, nonetheless our friend flipper is a big one.

- The tail is not vertical, its horizontal and is what is know as a "fluke" - which is what flippers have. Even if we were to argue that the tail is vertical, its shape is inconsistant with that of a sharks - in particular Great Whites. The same applies to the dorsal.

- note the close proximity of the pectoral fins to the head of the animal. Now look at those on the GW

- note the tapered snout. GW have fat stubby heads

- many species of dolphins can have skinny tapered tails


- Also note that the www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/34951+kurt+jones+dolphin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]photographer Jones [/url] calls it a dolphin first and then puts shark in parenthesis (perhaps to drum up business??)

This surfing page
 

Groltz

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CougTek said:
Steve, I hope this was meant to be funny. Hammerhead sharks are mid-size sharks. They rarely mesure more than 10 feet long and they are much ligher than great whites.

The only shark that could have been that big was the now extincted carcharodon megalodon, a 60 feet long great white shark that lived a few million years ago.
Yes Coug, I know that it is an intentionally doctored photo. It is meant for a laugh.
 

Santilli

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Malibu?

Sorry guys, but that really, REALLY, looks like a dolphin, but, the more I look at it, the weirder the dorsal fin looks, and the more I think it looks like a fake picture.

I don't know of a single spieces of shark with such a dorsal fin. It looks like a dolphin dorsal fin, yet the tail is small, and the head does look like a shark.

The other question is if it's a dolphin, what spieces? Looks sort of like, in size, and layout, an Atlantic Bottlenose dolphin.

Pacific dolphins have a different profile.

If it's a shark, no spieces has a dorsal fin like that I know of in the Pacific.

The lack of the clear, lower part of the tail fin, and where are the pectoral fins? It looks like a bad fake...


Try here for a real white shark eating a surfer, or training the baby of the family how to hunt, on slow targets, like surfers...

http://www.surfermag.com/vids/sattackmov/

I've got to be rather an authority on sharks in the North Pacific/San Francisco area.

Been chased out of the water by a Great White at Big Sur Rock, and, I've noted blue shark fins a couple times.

I have been within spitting distance of a school of small pacific dolphins off Makaha Point on a huge day(Hawaii, Oahu).

I've also had experience with a friend petting a local harbor seal, and, the really fun one is being in the middle of a bunch of very large pacific sea lions during mating season.

This picture just reminds me of how small and vulnerable we really are.

I climbed Seal Rock at Steamer Lane once, thinking all local residents had departed. However, it was about 15 feet high, and one of the locals, a good 1500 pounds, didn't like me on his rock. I had a real good, eye to eye with him, and realizing I was at least 10 times lighter, and, his mouth, and teeth were much bigger, I jumped off the rock.

Try walking around on Ana Nuevo Park. Turn a corner, and look a 4-5 ton male bull elephant seal in the eye, or, I should say, look UP at him, and suddenly you feel very small. Jump off the rock, and you can visit the White Sharks in the Red Triangle, a phrase for the Davenport to Farralons, to San Francisco area.

Why? Protected area for White sharks, Elephant seals, Sea lions, sea otters, and seals. End result: more food source, more sharks and bigger.

Another fun story. Friend of mine lives at Ocean Beach in San Francisco. He's walking on the beach at about 11 am, and what does he see? A beached baby white shark. Knowing the sharks are protected, he walks out, carefully picks the shark up, which is more then 3 feet long, and lets the guy back out in the deep water.

The entire time, the shark is trying to bite him.

Reminds me of another tape of, IIRC, live birth of baby tiger sharks.
The little sharks come out of mom, kicking, and bite, and shake, the first thing they see, a wooden stick the photo guys had...

If you don't believe any of this, you can take trips to watch white sharks at the farralon Islands off San Francisco, 26 miles, for only 775 a day.

http://sfbayadventures.com/great_white_sharks.html

Below has a couple good pics of Great Whites, and info:

http://www.zoo.co.uk/~z9015043/farallons_main.html

If you just have to see your great white from a cage, up close and personal...


http://www.incredible-adventures.com/sharks_farallons.html


GS
 

Dïscfärm

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Santilli said:
Sorry guys, but that really, REALLY, looks like a dolphin, but, the more I look at it, the weirder the dorsal fin looks, and the more I think it looks like a fake picture.
No, it's definitely a shark. The tail and head are definitely shark.

I don't know about any of the rest of you here, but I have been in the water surfing when sharks were around -- 3 times in my life. Every time I saw them, they sure as hell were not INSIDE a wave like that (above). They were always well back behind the crest prowling around at high speed. In 2 of the 3 cases, these were Bull sharks, which I would say are quite dangerous. Bull sharks are sneaky bastards and they tend to run in groups that love to bite like hell at everything that moves and eat anything. They can and do swim up fresh water rivers often, so you aren't safe anywhere from these damned things.

Well, I've also seen plenty of other sharks up close in the wild, but usually on a boat, on shore, or on a bridge. Sharks like Mako, Hammerhead, various "sandbar" and "reef" sharks.
 

Santilli

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We don't have a spieces that looks like that on the west coast.

Bull Sharks, which the dorsal fin Kind of resembles, are on the east coast, not Malibu.

Show me a Pacific Coast shark that resembles that one, and I'll sort of buy it.

The other reason I don't buy it is the sharks I've watched cruise in waves were at Moss Landing, and they were in much larger waves, coming out of a deep trench, further from shore.

s
 

.Nut

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Santilli said:
Bull Sharks, which the dorsal fin Kind of resembles, are on the east coast, not Malibu.
Don't bet on it. The bastards are nearly everywhere.

Bull sharks are a major problem on both the Atlantic side and the Pacific side in (nearby) Mexico as well as Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama -- including in Lake Nicaragua (fresh water).

Bull sharks are probably the worst sharks overall.
 

Prof.Wizard

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flagreen said:
.Nut said:
Bull sharks are probably the worst sharks overall.
You mean the worst without a law degree don't you?
Mwahahahhahah @flagreen.
(I may need to shut up now cause my gf is a law student, if she gets me on this thread... :roll: )
 

Santilli

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.Net

However, USUALLY not in cold water. Bull sharks are a wide spread, very dangerous shark.

Some famous shark guy was saying many attacks in Africa are bull shark attacks, but, they get pinned on Great Whites.

Around here, Great Whites do do the majority of attacking, mainly on shortboard surfers, who look very tasty, from below.

Have a look here for bull sharks, and you can see the dorsal fin is VERY different from the dolphin in the picture.

http://www.geocities.com/leojags/bullshark.html

This site says bull sharks are third only to great white and tigers in attacks on humans...

s
 

Splash

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Santilli said:
Around here, Great Whites do do the majority of attacking, mainly on shortboard surfers, who look very tasty, from below...
Oh ya, I'm familiar with the perfectly logical reasons why White sharks can't help themselves for chomping down on surfers in black wetsuits; they're seal eating machines.


...Have a look here for bull sharks, and you can see the dorsal fin is VERY different from the dolphin in the picture...
Well, I've always generally looked for TWO dorsal fins (sharks) versus ONE (porpoise, dolphin) when doing sudden quick checks on just what the hell that is "over there" when I was in the boat / sailboat, snorkel diving, or surfing. That picture at the beginning sort of shows a secondary dorsal -- maybe -- but the sharp-appearing nose keyed me in on shark more than anything else. One thing about the large dorsal fin or tail of a shark is that they can sometimes be bitten half off by, yes, another friggin' shark!

I never recall seeing dolphins or porpoise when I was surfing. What I saw was usually a LOT of Bluefish -- which in some cases might've really been small sharks, sharks that can bite the hell out of you about like what a dog could do. I knew of a young girl that got the hell bit out of her by a pint-sized shark in the surf. Anyway, when surfing, some of the things that alerted me to the possibility that there just might be a freakin' shark close by was that if I suddenly saw more than one Bluefish jumping out of the water or any number of Bluefish doing radical swimming manoeuvres. Fins sticking up out of the water would be an obvious clue, but I've seen some large Bluefish do this. So, at times you might think a small finger-biting / toe-biting / calf-biting shark was heading in your direction when it turned out to be a large Bluefish prowling the surf for minnows.


...This site says bull sharks are third only to great white and tigers in attacks on humans...
When I've seen sharks in action, they all sort of seemed like they had a plan of action in mind, and didn't really do much if any biting. These short, fat, fast, aggressive-swimming Bull sharks I've seen would swim around kind of erratically and then start biting quickly at nothing! Some people that I known that have seen plenty of Bull sharks in their lives said that the damned things just simply love to bite. And, the younger they are they worse they are about "exercising their jaws." So, chances are probably pretty good that if they are swimming along the shoreline and you just happen to be standing there in the surf, you'll at least get nibbled on as they pass by. Some other shark species would probably make an effort to go around you in search of fish.


CougTek said:
Steve, I hope this was meant to be funny. Hammerhead sharks are mid-size sharks. They rarely mesure more than 10 feet long and they are much ligher than great whites.
Well, I disagree with you Coug on the hammerhead being mid-sized. Even though, supposedly, hammerheads are rare, more than once I've seen hammerheads from above on a large bridge over an inlet in Florida (Sebastian Inlet), and I thought those were large (maybe 3 meters / 10 feet long). But once -- from a boat offshore, and probably not coincidentally, near Sebastian Inlet -- I saw a pair swimming along fairly close to the surface and one was *quite* large at about 5+ meters (16 feet) in length. That was easily the largest shark I've ever seen personally.

Out deep-sea fishing, I've caught by accident maybe a total of 4 sharks. I've seen friends / family accidentally catch sharks as well. These were reef sharks -- probably Whitetip and Blacktip -- once a Mako shark that came up close to the surface still hooked up with loose line wrapped around him. A Mako is definitely not a good shark to be around in an open boat, because they might just jump into the boat with you! At that point, the boat was put in forward, the line was cut and we left the immediate area.

It's not hard to accidentally catch a shark, because if you are pulling up a snapper, grouper, or sea bass from the bottom, prowling sharks will sometimes spot your fish and latch onto it hooks and all -- then you are screwed.

So, then you might want to pull up the shark somewhat, if you can, and cut the line so that you at least don't lose any more line than you need. They always fight like crazy, so you might just decide to go ahead an cut your line and lose 200 feet of good expensive steel line (not to mention your expensive deep sea leader and weights for reef fishing -- ARGH!) and save your arm muscle for the rest of that day.
 

Prof.Wizard

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Splash said:
So, then you might want to pull up the shark somewhat, if you can, and cut the line so that you at least don't lose any more line than you need. They always fight like crazy, so you might just decide to go ahead an cut your line and lose 200 feet of good expensive steel line (not to mention your expensive deep sea leader and weights for reef fishing -- ARGH!) and save your arm muscle for the rest of that day.
But if you do manage to raise it... :king:
 

Santilli

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Splash!!!

An authority on sharks. Dolphins can kill sharks by ramming them in the gills, though Great White Sharks are a bit much to attack.

My personal preference for protection are whales. Amazing what an angry grey, or right whale can do to get the area cleaned out.

One day, surfing Kaena Point, on a 20 foot day, we hear a sound like a canon going off. Since we are close to the army base, we figured that's what it was.

Next time down in the trough, coming up, we see about a 60 foot whale, tail walking, and coming down, on his side. Looked like a full size grey, just playing...
Followed by a HUGE boom as that flying 90 ton, 6 story building landed.

Two spieces of hammerheads, regular, and Great Hammerheads. Guess what? The Great Hammerheads are huge, and dangerous.

Splash, the guys that catalog the GW's in the Farrallons name sharks by their dorsal fins, and the bites on em.

Also, they have taken short surfboards, put a camera on them, facing down, and dragged them accross the surface, behind a boat.

My question is this: If a Great White can weigh 2000-2500 pounds, on land, what does it weigh when it's stomach is filled with water, and it's coming up from the deep at about 25 miles an hour?
What's the kenetic energy of a 5000 pound shark, coming up at 25-30 miles an hour, and hitting your board?

Perhaps the real Moby Dick was a great white...

By the way, the films from the towed surfboard, seeing the shark come up from deep water to hit it, make you realize what an minor morsel you are in their world...

They also go airborne on attack mode from deep water, aiming at the surface...

s

s
 

Splash

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Prof.Wizard said:
But if you do manage to raise it... :king:
...Then you'd shoot it in the top of the head with a rifle, such as a 30-30 or 30-06, as you pulled it up to the surface because only a fooking idiot would pull a live shark into their boat and have this mutli-toothed (and razor-sharp-toothed) beast thrashing around biting everything in sight.

But, like I was saying before, all sharks fight like goddam crazy when you hook into one and then try pulling it up. Every thrash of the tail seems like a blow of a hammer.
 

Splash

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Santilli said:
An authority on sharks.
I don't know about being an authority on sharks, just experienced with them to a degree -- from angling, surfing, and boating around them.


Two spieces of hammerheads, regular, and Great Hammerheads. Guess what? The Great Hammerheads are huge, and dangerous.
Well, I must've seen a Great Hammerhead that one time. It looked like a long torpedo with a hammerhead head on it. The place I saw these 2 large (Great) Hammerhead sharks -- Sebastian Inlet -- is well known to be a dangerous place for shark and barracuda. There are signs all around the inlet and the beach on the ocean side warning of sharks. The inlet is deep and has a swift flow out of the Indian River into the ocean. All sorts of fish -- including sharks, large devil rays, porpoise, dolphins -- hang out in the inlet as well as just offshore to scoop up all the baitfish and other fish goodies streaming out of the inlet.

The adjacent beaches to Sebastian Inlet are also quite dangerous. The surf in the area is usually quite excellent, so there are some surfers around. The county sheriff had the beaches for about 3 miles on both sides of the inlet banned to swimmers and surfers for a while, but it got overturned in court. I always personally avoided the area, but I knew many surfers who couldn't resist going there. They always ended up getting spooked after seeing "something," or just about as often got stung by a jellyfish. The riptide in that area was/is notorious for sucking people out to sea. I read about one idiot, in the local newspaper, that quickly got sucked out about 5 miles (on a surfboard) before the rescue people got to him in a boat. He reportedly had some sharks making passes at him on his "journey" out to sea... heh heh.


Splash, the guys that catalog the GW's in the Farrallons name sharks by their dorsal fins, and the bites on em.
By the way, there are Great Whites off Florida, but always well out in the ocean. The dead one in the movie Jaws was caught off the east coast of Florida and hauled up to then movie location.

Back to Bull sharks, briefly: I knew a couple of nuts that were surfing and spotted a shark in knee-deep surf. They managed to come up behind it, grab it by the tail and pull it out of the surf. So, this 3-foot Bull shark laid there on the beach for passersby (and tourists) to ogle.


They also go airborne on attack mode from deep water, aiming at the surface...
Well, that was the reason we chose to cut the Mako loose I was talking about earlier. Once we identified it as a Mako, we knew it was time to cut it free. Mako sharks can attack by going airborne as well. There was an incident that was making the rounds back in the day about some fishermen having a Mako "to jump into the boat" after catching it -- down in the Florida Keys. Er... one of the fisherman didn't live to see port again. Makos are fast moving sharks.

When I caught it, I didn't pull it up from the bottom, it came up under its own power, and it managed to get itself wrapped up in my fishing line and was swimming around somewhat erratically near the surface. We had the rifle out, but I quickly snipped the line (steel line) and we motored about a half kilometer away and resumed our deep-sea reef fishing. That Mako eventually shed the hook that was in his mouth about 2 or 3 weeks later, so he wasn't hurt.

I did a pretty fair amount of offshore fishing in those days, but I had friends that went out fishing more often than I did. Some of them had some dandy shark encounters, including encounters with Tiger, Mako, and Blue sharks -- including one where the transom go a chunk bitten out of it by an enraged Tiger shark being reeled in.
 

Santilli

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Nice to hear about Sebastian Inlet.

Just changed any inclination to move to Florida :wink: .

We have our own version of crazy stuff.

Fort Point, a surf spot under the Golden Gate Bridge, is right in the food chain. The currents go in and out of the gate at up to 8-9 miles an hour, depending on tides. Baker Beach, just out from Fort Point, is closed, water wise, due to shark attacks. Seems large ships bring large sharks trailing them in. Not to mention that 26 miles out is the Farrallons, with many Great Whites, and, they do cruise in for the occassional sea lion dinner inside the gate.

Since the Great White shark, and it's food sources are now protected, the GW population is on the rise, sea otters are going down, and I don't know about sea lions...

On large swells, 60 foot waves break over a deep water pinnacle outside the bridge called the Potato Patch. Impossible to line up, a couple guys tried with jet skis, but the waves came at them from the wrong direction, and, their session was interrupted by a surfacing nuclear submarine, during a huge swell.

Our local giant wave break, Mavericks, at Half Moon Bay, seems to close out at about 100 feet. However, swells this size are rare, and, it's only happened once that I know of. The lifeguards story, running out to sea, at max speed, to get over feathering 100 foot waves, on jet skis, and then barely being able to time coming in, are really great stuff.

Since this is off Half Moon Bay Harbor, Great Whites are also part of the equation.

And then their is my friend that took the baby, protected white shark, beached, at Ocean Beach, and picked him up, and put him back in the water. The shark, was of course, trying to bite him the entire time...
s
 

Explorer

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Santilli said:
Fort Point, a surf spot under the Golden Gate Bridge, is right in the food chain...
I was near or at Fort Point once (the park land under the bridge) and there were a lot of streetpeople hanging out. Needless to say, I didn't stay long.



...their session was interrupted by a surfacing nuclear submarine, during a huge swell...
When I was jotting out some of those deep sea fishing experiences (above), I did recall the 4 or 5 times that I looked up to notice a large black US Navy submarine just sitting there not too far away. Those relatively-rare instances of spotting those submarines nearby got me thinking about the possibility of one of them passing below us and our fishing lines getting snagged on one. We typically fished the deep reefs (50 ~ 80 meters deep) close to the continental shelf where the grouper and red snapper were large, and where the territories reef sharks and certain open water sea going came together.


Just as a side note to the submarine, I once (1970) recall seeing -- *well* offshore from Satellite Beach and Cocoa Beach (just a bit up the coast from the Sebastian Inlet) -- a large sea-going naval artillery exercise. All the action was over the horizon, so you couldn't see any ships. Nonetheless, after midnight you could see what looked like absolute hell on the horizon! Lots and LOTS of huge aerial explosions, and every once in a while a some faint rumble -- but usually not, because the wind almost always blows out to sea at night in that part of Florida (and the opposite in the daytime, except a lot stronger).


After a week of this curious nightly activity, I finally read in the local newspaper that the Navy was performing exercises some 100 ~ 120 miles offshore. Well, I had a telescope, and could see details of these explosions. More than once, it seemed that some of these destroyers or battleships were firing just totally uncorked at 100% for up to 20 minutes solid! After a day or two, I kinda doubt there were any sharks in that area.



Our local giant wave break, Mavericks, at Half Moon Bay...
It seemed like the 8 or 9 or 10 times that I've been to Half Moon Bay, it has always been foggy. So, if there are rocks just offshore, I never saw them. Are you talking about the beach area near the airport? P.S. -- To tell you the truth, I like the beaches more on down in Santa Cruz County.


 

Santilli

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Explorer:
You opened a can of worms, and, I'm in a mood to remember.

I grew up in Manhatten Beach, from 2 till 11.

Went to NKalifornia, and, at 18 moved to SC. Suffice to say, I surfed, and chased big waves.

In 1984 I moved to Oahu for 10 years.

When I arrived, no waves until the beggining of the season. It Started at 8 feet, and, for 20 days, never went below that.

I bought a 9'4" Pat Rawson, on about the third day, and paddled out at Sunset.

Sunset has sand in the channel from the summer, on the early days.

I paddled out, at dusk, on a VERY large, nearly closing out, Sunset day.
YOu cant really get a feel for what it's like, until you paddle over a sandbar, with escalating waves, startin at 8 feet(24 foot face, Hawaiian style), escalating to 20 feet, as you paddle over each, sand sucking, super thick, top to bottom barrel, with the rip from the beach, flowing over a very shallow sandbar, in the middle of the sunset channel.

As I got to what I thought was the outside in the channel, a giant set jumped up in front of me. My first, really good wave at sunset beach, was a giant, maybe 18-20 foot wave that broke in the middle of the channel, so far out, the outside sunset peak was a beach break. I figured go, or maybe drown, seeing as 3 more waves coming in behind it, had already broke, and I was facing 25 feet of white water, if I paddled over.

I was the ONLY one in position, rode, it all the way to the beach, got out, and went home, as dusk settled.

Sunset STAYED, 8 foot or better, for 20 days. You either rode it, or didn't surf.

I rode Sunset, for 3 hours, with the girl that owns the surfshop, Roger Ericksen(I still have a pair of his shorts, I traded for), and two other guys, in the middle of the day, and solid 8-10 foot, for 3 hours.

Jeff Clark was the first rider at Mavericks. As you drive by the jetty, outside the second jetty, outside the rocks, is a big wave break. That fog, and the lack of clear view, is what saved it from so many big wave guys, like me, for so long. It takes a clean, huge swell, to break, and, on those conditions, 2nd peak at the lane is FIRING, at 12 plus feet.

Last time I went by their, the surf sucked. Onshore winds, crowded, and I kept going to Santa Cruz.

Paddled out at the lane, on my 10'2" Rawson gun designed for the Bay,
and just killed it.. 2 guys out, and they are laughing at me as I take off, thinking I'm going to fall off. Keep in mind, I've surfed maxed out bay, 20 foot, 20 seconds on the buoy, with closed out sets, in Hawaii, so 12 foot Center Peak is a f....g piece of cake.

They are yelling to late, and I'm going, easy.. make the drop, and connect all the way to Cowell's.

I, along with Ken Bradshaw, Dan Moore, and a few others, are the few people to really read the buoys, figure out the swell, and be there when it arrived.

One day, I called Bradshaw, and told him a 20 foot, 20 second Bay swell was going to hit at 12 in the afternoon.

I paddled out at the Bay at 11:30. Mark Foo was out. From 12, till 3 pm, Foo and I traded set waves, with no more then 5 guys out, the entire session. Every 15 minutes, I caught a 20 plus foot wave, on my 10'2" gun. Mark, caught the others on his shorter board.

At 3 PM, 30 guys paddled out, literally. Ken Bradshaw had been stuck on the beach the entire 3 hours, doing a National Geographic Documentry.

He also paddled out, as I caught my last 20 footer, and came in(Bradshaw and I had long argued over wave size. This ended that argument. "Ken, if the buoy is 20 feet, 20 seconds, and the bay is closing out, the waves I caught HAD to be 20 feet." No argument.

The finish to this dialogue was as he paddled out, and I rode in, 20 minutes later, the ENTIRE BAY closed out, from one side to the other,
murdering the 30 wannabe Bay riders, and Ken, in the process.

Bradshaw loved it, since after the set, 30 guys floated out in the channel, while he caught set wave, after set wave, on a perfect 20 foot day...


If you REALLY get me going, I'll tell you about Makaha, and 25 foot waves, Brian K, Hammerheads, and other outer reefs.

I'm really thinking about moving back, and, I may do it. I want warm water, my friends, jet skis into big waves, and to finish my days doing what I love...

Last Bradshaw story. I went out to an outer reef, 20+ feet, and got caught inside. I tried a technique recommended by a VERY famous big wave rider at Sunset. I got sucked over the falls, 3 times, and dragged for 200 yards, and almost drown.

This prompted me to ask Bradshaw what his worst wipeout was.

He told me he took off on a 30 foot plus wave at the bay. He rode it to the middle of the bay, where it closed out. He, riding huge boards, prowned out, and managed to get in front of the 30 plus foot of white water. However, the white water caught, and tumbled him on his giant gun. When he came up, he found himself pushed through the middle of the bay, over the beach, and in the stopped up river part of the bay, maybe 200 yards from the normal beach.

I hope you guys that have surfed the bay can relate to how huge, and how powerful that wave must have been to put Ken in that position.


Mavericks is out the front of the jetty, out the channel, and to the right as you go out the channel.

It's on the right side, in front of the harbor, not in front of the airport.

There is a summer break, on the right side of the point, away from Mavericks, that goes left.

Last time I surfed there, I had a 9'8" gun. Wonder why the guys didn't like me catching all the waves, on an 8 foot south swell?

s

s
 

Explorer

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Messages
236
Location
Hinterlands

Earlier, I think I was trying to say:

Explorer said:
...where the grouper and red snapper were large, and where the territories of reef sharks and certain open water sea-going sharks came together.



Santilli said:
I grew up in Manhatten Beach, from 2 till 11.
I know someone from Manhattan Beach. They eventually got tired of listening to LAX jet noise and moved.

...I figured go, or maybe drown, seeing as 3 more waves coming in behind it, had already broke, and I was facing 25 feet of white water, if I paddled over...
Wouldn't most people get killed trying to deal with a 25-footer? The problem with a lot of Hawaii is that there's solid coral on the bottom -- not nice beach sand.


...Paddled out at the lane, on my 10'2" Rawson gun designed for the Bay...
Hmmm.... that sounds like a huge board. I once rode a 9-foot or 9.5-foot Hobi Straight Arrow and just about ploughed it into someone because the damned thing was so long and unresponsive (not to mention heavy).

I once had a green Gordon Twin Fin and a tricked out homemade yellow Hobi clone -- both at 6 foot length. Those were big enough.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
Wouldn't most people get killed trying to deal with a 25-footer? The problem with a lot of Hawaii is that there's solid coral on the bottom -- not nice beach sand
You have to used to it, and pretty flexible. Ricky Gregg, when he was about 50, cracked a vertebrae in his neck from a whiplash at Wiamea Bay.
Plus, you have to be able to hold your breath.

Most people's worst wipeouts come at Sunset Beach. Over 8 feet, any wipeout can plant you on the reef, and the force of the wave can hold you down for a very long time, since it's moving onto a shelf in places, and the white water holds it's size, and force, for a long time.

The Bay reef is deep, about 20 feet seems to me. Takes a very big swell to even get it going. However, I have been slammed off the reef, on my right shoulder, once. I tried to take off behind the peak, on a very large wave, and dove into the face, as it closed out on me. I went up and over twice, and the second time hit the reef. I tried swimming up, and ran into the bottom, since it was pitch black. I climbed my leash just in time to get hammered by another large bit of white water. However, it backed off, and I went back to surfing.

Most big wave breaks are in deep water, breaks on the reef, and expends nearly all of it's energy, and disapate quickly. There are a few noticeable exceptions.


Big surfboards are designed, fins and bottom, to work at a certain size.

The funny part is that my Bay boards are designed with the same rocker as a giant beach break board. Plus the 22" wide really helps get you moving, and makes the board plane quite easily.

If I want to use a giant board, on little waves, like at Rice Bowls on a 3 foot day, I either take out the back fin, put in a small back fin, or use smaller side fins. This can open up some really intresting waves.

Rice bowls was in front of my apartment in Diamond Head. Couple days I caught it on a low tide, and maybe 3-4 foot island size swell. Bigger it becomes very hollow. At this size it lines up nicely, and, on low tide, can connect, if you can make it over this giant flat spot, with another wave that runs to the Outrigger canoe club, some 300 yards or more, and, it breaks right on the reef, so you don't want to fall off. Still, it's a very perfect, long, hollow little wall, that's a real blast to ride.

I had a friend that always rode a longboard, so I would take another gun I have 10'8" out, and we would catch these waves, with no one else around.

The little boards couldn't compete for waves with us, so if anyone came out, we would take off outside, line up and drive. The big boards would connect over the 30 foot flat spot, to the other break, and short boards had NO chance of doing so. Great memories.

Anyway, if you want to catch waves at Sunset Beach, and most big wave breaks, you need to be able to paddle quickly, and get into the waves early enough so you can get down the face, prior to being pitched. With the offshores at Sunset, you can end up putting your head down, paddling hard, feeling the board pick up speed, and the bottom of the wave drop out. You jump up, blind, since the spray blinds you, and pray your board is on the wave, and you land on it, and that some idiot hasn't paddled underneath you from the time you lost your vision to the spray. If not, you get oriented, hit a hard turn, rocket back up the face, snap, and try to figure out if it's going to line up, close out, or you just caught a big peak, with no shoulder. My standard Sunset board was 9'6" long, and was shaped in 1988. I still have it. Carbon fiber cloth, 1/2" spruce stringer, and a green blank have kept it together.

With smaller fins, it works great for 8-10 foot ocean beach. A little sketchy when it's 12 feet, and hard offshore, or, a bigger swell, reduced in size by a big high tide, that's very thick, and fast moving.

As for weight, my standard Jack Reeves glass job was double sixes on the deck, and a 6 and 4 on the bottom, free lapped over the rails. In other words, no cutline, and 22 oz of cloth, in a 180 degree wrap, providing great strength.

I have a 108 with 3 6 on the deck, and 2 six on the bottom, but, along with the 1" plus spruce stringer, this one came out a bit heavy, and is only fun when you can get going from a long way away, and time it just right, on 20 foot plus waves, or giant, lined up walls, like maxed out Makaha, which I have also surfed with Brian Kealauna, and two others.

I saw, and tried to catch, what is considered the biggest wave ever ridden, Greg Nolls 35 foot close out at Makaha. It's a wave that came in on a day when the point was solid 20 plus. It came in more parrallel to the cost then anything we rode, and, it was at least 150-200 yards outside the normal 20 foot break. I saw it coming, and Brian was inside. I paddled as hard as I could, but my board was too short, it wouldn't get over the ledge.

I told Ken Bradshaw about the wave, and he said that's exactly like the wave Noll caught, but he had a 23" wid, 11'2" gun.

Apparently there is a big difference in paddling power when you get into the 11 foot board range. I can confirm that, since I had a 11'3" gun built, just for that wave. Sadly I've never used it for that, but it sure is fun on small days, for torturing rude shortboarders.
:mrgrn:

My last board shaped by John Carper, is 21" wide, and 6'10" long, 3 inches thick. Surfed it once at Ocean Beach, but the fins were too small, and it was REALLY loose.

Now have a bigger set of fins, and can't wait to try it...

s
 

iGary

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Nov 22, 2002
Messages
236
Location
iLand
Unfortunately, as for surfing trends and technology, I come from a period of antiquity when more than one skeg was bizarre and nobody used leashes; this would be the mid-to-late 1960s.


 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
So did I, Gary. Problem was, in Santa Cruz, without a leash, it was either low tide, or no surfboard, if you got caught inside, or fell off.

Waves were way to good not to use a leash...at high tide.

Fish actually worked well, and I made a substantial income polishing fish, to send to Florida.

s
 

Splash

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
235
Location
Seaworld
Santilli said:
However, USUALLY not in cold water. Bull sharks are a wide spread, very dangerous shark...

...This site says bull sharks are third only to great white and tigers in attacks on humans.
Here's someone who sez that Bull sharks are THE most dangerous (sorta what I was thinking, since they show up places you'd least expect them, they're cunning, unpredictable, don't fear humans, and love to bite any and everything).

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bilsons/Sharks2.htm


 

Dozer

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
299
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Website
planetdozer.dyndns.org
Been gone awhile...Surf's always up in the summertime in the south, with many premiere whitewater rivers including the Gauley, The New, The Ocoee (just 45 minutes from me), and the Nantahala, just to mention a few--and no sharks (although some of the rocks are probably as sharp as a shark's teeth). Summer finds me on the river quite a bit.

Me paddling this weekend on the Nantahala River (Wesser, North Carolina):



Hope everyone is doing well. Sorry it's been so long.
 
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