Teaching a *consumer* video editing class

Mercutio

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Well, it's xmas time already, and at my training company that means breaking out fun classes in consumer electronics.

This year, because of lab upgrades and student interest, I've been asked to do a short class in video editing.

On short notice. And a stipulation that the software I teach be affordable (i.e. no premier).

So... I went out and blew a bunch of cash on a couple WinTV PVR250s and a couple WinTV PVR USB2s - both do full hardware MPEG2 encoding in real time, a couple of low-end ATI TV Wonder VEs, and all our PCs can handle 1394 already.

But then there's the software.

Microsoft Movie Maker? Only saves in .ASF and .WMV, two of the most useless video formats known to man.

Virtualdub? Complicated in a technical sort of way, and it doesn't really handle clips, which is the idiom that most consumer packages seem to use.

Pinnacle Studio? I hear it's nightmarish to get it working; almost impossible to use with Analog equipment.

I'm thinking of teaching production with the goal of saving back to a DVD or to a VHS tape.

Anyone know of a reasonable consumer-level video editing package that works with analog capture devices, saves in useful formats (AVI or MPEG, ideally), and isn't too hard for a newbie to pick up with 8 or 10 hours of classroom time?
 

Mercutio

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I ended up using Sony's Screenblast MovieStudio. It's a $100 program, but frankly I'm stunned by what they packed in for the money.

Some other cool things: My classroom for this had super-nice PCs, but no Firewire. I paid $8 apiece for Lucent-based 3-port jobs, and they came in a retail kit that included a 6-to-4 pin cable and an OEM copy of Ulead MovieFactory v2.

I figured the cables would be $5 or so and I'd already planned to buy them; I was thrilled to not have to. MovieFactory was icing on the cake. It doesn't have any particular editing capabilities, but I figure I can give the copies away or use 'em as incentives or something. MovieFactory is a pretty decent program for making DVD menus and doing xformat-to-MPEG2 conversion.

Anyway...

Hardwarewise, I bought two WinTV PVR-250s and one WinTV PVR-USB2. These cards are not your father's WinTV! Nary a BT878 in sight. These guys are full-on MPEG2 realtime encoders. Wanna cap 1024x768 8000kbps MPEG2 with no dropped frames? How about a 3% CPU load while doing so? 3%!!! That's about the same load you get from playing Solitaire.
OK, granted, the cards only work with WinTV's stupid and ugly (the RAR of vidcap!) TV2000 application - capture isn't exposed to 3rd party apps, but, holy cow. These $180 cards are almost enough to make me reconsider my AIW fetish.
I also demo'd run-of-the-mill bt8x8 cards from ATI (TV Wonder VE) and from Phoebe. ATI's card won't work with the generic driver - it needs MMC, and, honestly, I've never had such a rough time qith ATI-anything as in getting that stupid thing to work. It kept throwing driver errors on the Video Capture Crossbar. Capped fine from MovieStudio, but MMC7.9 would hard lock its host PC. The Phoebe, despite having the worst video quality of anything I've ever capped with, did its generic best, working well with the "Phoebe supplied" Capture app, the bt8x8 generic app, and MovieStudio.
There was also a SapphireTech Radeon 9000 VIVO in attendence. It worked perfectly with MMC, but it exhibited a problem with my editor...

About half my students had DV or Digital8 cameras. The other half brought in everything from 25lb. Beta camcorders (with weird 13-pin video connectors I'd never seen) to VHS-C to Hi-8. DV people have it easy... You plug in the camera and XP just says "Would you like to Capture from this?"... and you can then choose your application and to do things the easy way (go until I say stop) or by time codes.

DV AVI = 12GB/hour. Only down side to DV.

I had to spend a long time encouraging people to use the high-quality formats. A lot of people were just thrilled to death by Windows builtin MovieMaker, which can barely do anything and only saves in dain-bramaged .WMV/.ASF format (and DV AVI). Some of 'em were just stuck on: So this video I'm putting in is either 12GB an hour or 40MB. I'll take 40MB!

<smacks forehead>

The big troublemakers were the combination of ATI cards and Movie Studio.

As I said, Movie Studio has a stunning array of filters and effects builtin. Three simultaneous video tracks, an overlay, two audio tracks. It's super-intuitive compared to Premier, and doesn't demand that I #$%#$-ing render everything every time I preview a change (It tries to render the preview in real time. Good enough for me!)

Most of my students - who can barely handle making folders or launching Freecell, figured out how to add title cards and tweak brightness and color levels with absolutely zero prompting. THAT'S easy.

Even better, every time you start the program, there's an option to run a tutorial that takes someone through capture, simple editing and rendering output, and it literally isn't obtrusive OR condescending! Sweet!

Capture with DV: Dead simple. Shoot. I'm jealous. Why can't I have a DV VCR? The Phoebe card: Output looked awful, but MovieStudio had some device controls; I could change bit rates, resolutions and which connector I was using on the card.
The WinTV PVR cards wouldn't play at all with MovieStudio. I called their tech support to confirm this (since there's essentially zero support on their site). By the way, to answer a question I've been curious about for YEARS, it's pronounced h@p-AUG (spelled Hauppauge). Capture has to be done through their app. No other.
The VIVO worked with MovieStudio, but Moviestudio could not adjust any parameters for the capture. It defaulted to uncompressed AVI frames, 320x200, a rate that works out to 1GB/min. I found that MovieStudio used my last settings in MMC; Sony's site says they just haven't implemented controls for some analog capture devices yet. I guess ATI's devices didn't make the list, common though they might be.
The VE was hell. I knew I had a problem when the student using that machine told me he had a "Insufficient Disk Space to Continue Capture" on a PC with a 120GB drive. Again, no controls in my editor (even though the Phoebe, which is essentially the same hardware, had lots of options), and the MMC that let me make changes to the capture device's settings was locking up the machine every time I started it. It defaulted to 640x480 30fps uncompressed AVI, at a data rate of about 2.2GB/minute.

The disgusting thing about these 2800s is, even with the crummy analog capture cards, absolutely nobody dropped any frames, ever. 2.2GB/minute and no dropped frames? Sweet Zombie Jebus, Coug's right about SiS IDE drivers! Other comments about the suitability of 8MB-cache Samsung drives are dead-on as well.

So what did we do with our movies? Well, I'm still teaching editing - basically by the seat of my pants, since I've spent exactly twenty times the amount of time it takes to install the program (about 30 seconds on a 52x CDROM) on a PC more than the students have, with the software I'm teaching...

Still, we worked text into the overlay layer, to do titles for our videos, added a couple of clips with a sepia colorization filter, some JPGs in a short slideshow, an looped MP3 for background music, cut some boring bits of ceilings and "Is this thing on?" out of everyone's video, re-ordered other frames within our clips and managed to set up crossfade transitions between clips.

I explained all that to two classes of 8 people, all working with different cameras and capture hardware, plus different video tapes in general, in two and a half hours per class.

When we were done, we output our video straight to DVD-Rs - one of MovieFactory's compelling features is native support for DVD. Most of the movies ended up being about 10 minutes long, and needed about 25 minutes to render and write to 4x discs. Then we took the same project and rendered them as .RV files (realvideo), just for comparison.

"The DVD you made has 250MB of data on it, and looks really good. The RealVideo you made is 900kb, and looks awful. See why we like to keep as much video data as possible? See why we like to use the right format for the job?"

I just sat down and started to write a few words about MovieStudio. As I wrote I realized how cool my class was today. I think I ended up sharing more than I planned but, hoolie doolie, there's just about no part of this class I'm not impressed with (except the TV Wonder VE).
 

CougTek

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Mercutio said:
The disgusting thing about these 2800s is, even with the crummy analog capture cards, absolutely nobody dropped any frames, ever. 2.2GB/minute and no dropped frames? Sweet Zombie Jebus, Coug's right about SiS IDE drivers!
I've said a while ago that SiS' PCI bus was better than VIA's but a tad slower than Intel's. I think it's Blackberry would wrote that SiS' IDE driver was the best thing that ever came to world since sliced bread. I didn't refute it, but I asked for proof/source of claim.

Glad to see SiS cheapsets handle well their IDE channels.
 

blakerwry

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Coug's right about SiS IDE drivers!

you mean blake is?




Yeah, I had a terrible time with my TV wonder, I could have told you to skip over that piece of junk.. it only took ATi 2 or so years after winXP's release for them to release "final drivers" that are still only semi-working. This is while every other manufacturer of conexant BT8x8 cards has perfectly working drivers...

btw, you can get it working using 3rd party programs/drivers but it's a truely painful experience.



I've visited a few HTPC forums and the Hauppage line of hardware cards is highly recomended, but I was thinking you could use external apps besides the hauppage supplied ones.. dont know if you get hardware encoding support with those however.
 

Handruin

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Merc, I also would have enjoyed your class! Sounds like a fun day of playing with cool toys and editing videos. Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for sharing it all.
 

Mercutio

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XP2800
GA7S748 non-integrated motherboard(1)
512MB PC2700
SP1213N hard disk
Aopen realtek NIC(1)
Optorite/Sony 4x DVD burner
LiteOn 48x CDRW/DVD-ROM
Dell 1901 LCD
Crappy Enlight desktop case(2)

(1) - Why that board, in particular? Well, the owner of the company I work for was trying to be helpful. She knew I liked Gigabyte motherboards, and saw a stack of 'em for $85 each at a computer store. She remembered we'd paid $115 for the last batch we bought (7VAXPs), so she bought 'em, thinking they were the same thing.
The 7S748 is a SiS 748 board with, uh, sound. No NIC. No Firewire (contrary to my recollection in the first post in this thread).
I thought about taking them back, then decided it would be easier to use them than to explain to my boss why I don't like them.
I had to add in NICs ($6 apiece) and now Firewire cards ($8) after the fact. That classroom doesn't have internet access anyway. The only thing those PCs do on a network is print.

(2) My boss doesn't like tower cases. She doesn't like having to bend down to put a CD in, and putting a tower case on the desk would probably block someone's field of view. Hence I have a choice of one of maybe three common desktop cases whenever I build something for the classrooms. So we have slate-gray 19" Dell LCDs sitting on top of the most generic-looking beige Enlight desktop in the world. Which is OK, I guess. Everyone stops looking once they see the LCDs.
 

Will Rickards WT

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You mind giving me some hints on rendering?
I can capture just fine (okay this is really as easy as plugging in the camera, starting pinnacle and pressing capture).
But everytime I try to render as mpeg is looks like crap.
For an example, see the clip I put on me page of liam walking:
http://www.willrickards.net/images/test2.mpg

I feel like such a noob with this video stuff.
I surely would like a class like this.
 

Mercutio

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I don't know what brand. They came from UpgradeNation.com, I think. They come in purple boxes with the cable and MovieFactory 2.
 

mubs

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"purple boxes" - then that must be the Barney brand.

My Irish friend told me this one.

Out in rural Ireland, a farmer was going to go into town. He asked his neighbor, who was fixing his old vehicle, if wanted something from town. So the neighbor said, "Yeah, get me a fan-belt for a blue van".
 

blakerwry

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Will Rickards WT said:
You mind giving me some hints on rendering?
I can capture just fine (okay this is really as easy as plugging in the camera, starting pinnacle and pressing capture).
But everytime I try to render as mpeg is looks like crap.
For an example, see the clip I put on me page of liam walking:
http://www.willrickards.net/images/test2.mpg

I feel like such a noob with this video stuff.
I surely would like a class like this.

I think the main problem is it is an average of 255kbps for the video.

With that size and framerate the optimum (file size to quality) bitrate would be ~500kbps


The formula I use is the bitrate /(height*width*fps) = ~ 0.2

So, for example: 500000/(320x240x30) = 0.217

The higher the answer the better the quality. After you get past 0.3 you're really not getting much more image quality for the amount of space that's being taken up.


The audio was fine, mpeg layer II 192kbps joint stero... you could probably make it mono and I wouldn't know the difference though (I assume it was recorded in mono to begin with).. That would lower your resulting file by 96kbps without quality loss.
 

Mercutio

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Will Rickards WT said:
You mind giving me some hints on rendering?
I can capture just fine (okay this is really as easy as plugging in the camera, starting pinnacle and pressing capture).
But everytime I try to render as mpeg is looks like crap.
For an example, see the clip I put on me page of liam walking:
http://www.willrickards.net/images/test2.mpg

I don't know how much help I can be but...

The biggest thing is to use the highest quality settings you can afford on your hardware. Even if your target is 352x240 for a VHS tape, it doesn't hurt to cap 5kbps 720x480 and downsample the result at the end.

Something else: There are a variety of MPEG and MPEG2 encoders out there. One of the reasons, historically, I've liked ATI cards is that they do a very good job of initially encoding MPEG2 at moderate bit-rates. If you're working in software, as most editing packages do, you have to deal with some kind of soft-encoder. These range from really nice to "the deepest level of suck". The good news is, most programs offer some way to select a different encoder. It's very possible that the frustrations your having are brought on by a poor encoder.

It's the height of obviousness, but if possible, don't start out with MPEG as your source format unless you aren't planning to edit. MPEG files have to be processed and (lossy) compression with basically every change. MPEG is a destination format.

Hm. That's all I can think of right this second.
 

blakerwry

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That's true, you should think of DIVX and MPEG in general as a "destination" format... that is, you work with a lossless(or atleast a high quality) format and then when you're ready to publish the results you export them to a lower file size format like mpg.

The same thing is used in image editing... you start of with say a high wuality format like psd (photoshop) and when you want to put the image on the web you'd convert it to a moderately sized jpg or gif.

When I capture, I've found that a lossless format like huffyuv is good because it doesnt take much CPU time to process the compression and it also lowers the amount of info to be saved to disk and thus results in less dropped frames.

If I dont plan on too much manipulation, then a high bitrate mpeg capture is fine... say in the 6Mbit/sec range... capturing to DIVX is hard unless you really lower the quality... it just takes too much CPU time.
 

Onomatopoeic

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blakerwry said:
...you should think of DIVX and MPEG in general as a "destination" format... that is, you work with a lossless(or atleast a high quality) format and then when you're ready to publish the results you export them to a lower file size format like mpg.

If you're running Windows, you're generally better off using the AVI format for capture and editing.

MPEG = .mpg = .mpeg -- unless you are talking about MPEG1 versus MPEG2 versus MPEG4, all of which have different capabilities.


The same thing is used in image editing... you start of with say a high wuality format like psd (photoshop) and when you want to put the image on the web you'd convert it to a moderately sized jpg or gif.

It's completely possible to save a 24-bit JPEG or GIF file at the same quality level that is equivalent to a Photoshop PSD file. However, virtually nobody is interested in using 24-bit GIF or lossless JPEG encoding. Instead, 8-bit GIF is what's hot with GIF and "lossy" (i.e. -- small) is what's hot with JPEG.
 

Onomatopoeic

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mubs said:
Firewire cards for $8! - what brand, and where?

There are a LOT of economy Firewire host bus adaptors, but unless it has a Texas Instruments IEEE-1394 controller, I would stay away from using any of them -- in particular -- for video capture or recording.

The various Via, NEC, Sanyo, and whatnot IEEE-1394 controllers generally work fine for most Firewire storage uses, but they often don't make the grade when doing real-time video capture or recording. Take it from the Pro Video crowd, they only use Firewire host bus adaptors with TI chipsets.
 

Onomatopoeic

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Adaptec and others make good TI-based Firewire host bus adaptors, as well as Firewire + USB2 host bus adaptors.

If you are looking for a very capable host bus adaptor that with 400 Mb Firewire + 480 Mb USB2 (Full Speed USB 2.0) capabilities, I'd recommend this one:


pcicombo.jpg


FirewireDirect 6-Port IEEE-1394 + USB2 Combo Card (US$59)



It has 3-each external Firewire ports, 2-each external USB2 ports, and -- something very important to anyone wanting front panel Firewire and USB2 -- 1-each internal USB2 port and 1-each internal Firewire port. You can optionally attach a drive power connector to the host bus adaptor to provide extra power on the Firewire bus for lotsa unpowered Firewire devices.


http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/products/adapters_pcicombo.shtml
 
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