The Atom is here

[Bozo]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21410351/

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

Been around quite a while actually. This is the second version. Tempting, but darned expensive.

 

[Bozo]

I didn't think they were available in the US until now????

And, yes, they are very tempting. But for about the same money, I'd buy a 'vette.

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

It's a little too extreme for my older self. I'm seriously considering a Lotus Elise, though.

 

[Will Rickards]

What do you do if it rains?
If I had 52K to waste.... I wouldn't buy this.
But I think Chuck Norris should drive one. I don't know why.

 

[ddrueding]

If it rains you drive your Ferrari, of course

This isn't for people with 52k to waste, this is for people with 500k to waste. It fills a niche in the collection next to the Caterham and the Elise.

 

[LunarMist]

So where is the reactor core of the Atom, perhaps under the testicles and causing genetic damage?

 

[Chewy509]

I wonder what the atom would look like if I drove over it with this.

About the size of an atom? :rotfl:

 

[ddrueding]

I'm specifically looking for cars by weight. Any suggestions on where to search, or what cars to look at? Under 2500lbs (1134kg) is mandatory. Ideally under 2000lbs (907kg). Ones I'm looking at now:

Ariel Atom 2 - 1005lbs
Lotus Elise - 1975lbs
Mazda MX-5 (Miata) - 2414lbs
Honda CRX Si - 2174lbs
Honda Civic - 2650lbs

I hate that new cars weigh so much...

 

[Chewy509]

I'm specifically looking for cars by weight. Any suggestions on where to search, or what cars to look at? Under 2500lbs (1134kg) is mandatory. Ideally under 2000lbs (907kg). Ones I'm looking at now:

<snip>

I hate that new cars weigh so much...

Get a bike?

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.aspx?id=266&content=photos
or
http://www.ducati.com/en/bikes/my2007/ModelPage.jhtml?family=Superbike&model=SBK1098S-07

Should satisfy power/weight, come in under your weight requirements, and have decent mpg?

PS. Why the weight requirement?

 

[ddrueding]

I've been tempted to buy a bike for years. The last time I had one I was too young and stupid. But I think I'm still stupid enough...

Why the weight requirement? Because I hate the waste inherent in moving around 10x my own weight when the only thing that needs to get there is me.

I could get a motorcycle with 50hp, a Miata with 120hp or an SUV with 300hp and still accomplish the same thing. Granted, hp != consumption, but they are linked most of the time.

Not sure if the GF will accept me getting a bike; she was actually on me to get something with 4 doors (kids?). If so, I'm looking at an STI/Evo or a Civic.

 

[ddrueding]

PS. One of my clients is a Harley Davidson dealership. While I'm not an old fogie, they do also market Buell Motorcycles

 

[Chewy509]

Cheap a cheap SUV for family stuff, and a bike for the work commute? Best of both worlds... wneddnce:

 

[ddrueding]

Yeah. I was actually thinking of getting a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited for towing the boat, having a motorcycle could cure some of the guilt...

I'm now comparing a Buell Lightning XB9SX, a Honda CBR 600RR and a Ducati Monster 695. They all weigh in at around 400lbs fully loaded (so 600lbs with me and a full tank of gas). That makes the power/weight ratio...acceptable.

 

[Bozo]

I'm specifically looking for cars by weight. Any suggestions on where to search, or what cars to look at? Under 2500lbs (1134kg) is mandatory. Ideally under 2000lbs (907kg). Ones I'm looking at now:

Ariel Atom 2 - 1005lbs
Lotus Elise - 1975lbs
Mazda MX-5 (Miata) - 2414lbs
Honda CRX Si - 2174lbs
Honda Civic - 2650lbs

I hate that new cars weigh so much...

SCION XB, TC, XA

Bozo

 

[ddrueding]

Scions all around - 2400lbs

Thanks.

 

[Bozo]

If it makes any difference, Car and Driver says the Scion Xb is in the top 10 safest cars under $25,000. Mine was ~$18,000 loaded.

Bozo :joker:

 

[MaxBurn]

I would rather have a kit cobra from factory five. I helped a friend build one years ago and it is a very slick kit. Fastest car I have ever ridden in.

 

[LOST6200]

I hate that new cars weigh so much...

I think the opp[posite - many cars are too small lightwieght. What will happen when you smash into a decetbn size of vehicle, maybe 4500 lsb.?

 

[ddrueding]

So the solution to heavy cars is to make them heavier? I don't see the logic there. If a Miata hits an Elise, what is the problem?

Besides, speed and maneuverability are pro-active safety features.

 

[Bozo]

So the solution to heavy cars is to make them heavier? I don't see the logic there. If a Miata hits an Elise, what is the problem?

Besides, speed and maneuverability are pro-active safety features.

If a Miata gets hit by an Suburban, you're toast.
99% of the drivers on the road can't handle anything over 50MPH and then they rely on the car to 'handle' for them.
Ralph Nader's book "dangerous at any speed" applies to most drivers as well as the cars.

Bozo :joker:

 

[LunarMist]

I agree with the clown and the loser. Tin can cars are scary. My main vehicle weighs about 3600 lbs without any bodies in it. It is a reasonable compromise between safety, comfort, and parkability, and has good fuel economy compared to the SUV.

 

[ddrueding]

How can you possibly talk of efficiency and saving the world when you drive a 2-ton car?

 

[P5-133XL]

If a Miata hits an Elise, what is the problem?

Besides, speed and maneuverability are pro-active safety features.

The problem with accidents between small cars and large cars is that the amount of force imparted upon the vehicles is inversely proportional to their mass. In an impact, the car with 1/2 the mass will receive 2x the force of the larger car. The net result of the physics is that the small cars have a large scale disadvantage and have to be designed at a more extreme engineering level to be equivalently safe.

 

[ddrueding]

I'm aware of that, Mark. But does that mean we are doomed to an escalation of vehicle weights until we are all driving tanks?

If a Miata (2400lbs) hits an Elise (1975lbs) it isn't that big a deal. It isn't until some fool shows up in an Escalade (5665lbs) or H1 Hummer (7213lbs) that there is an issue.

I'm one to keep the government out of things, so let's just say I can't wait until gas hits $10+ a gallon.

 

[Howell]

The problem with accidents between small cars and large cars is that the amount of force imparted upon the vehicles is inversely proportional to their mass. In an impact, the car with 1/2 the mass will receive 2x the force of the larger car. The net result of the physics is that the small cars have a large scale disadvantage and have to be designed at a more extreme engineering level to be equivalently safe.

And the contents of the car still decelerate at the same rate.

 

[udaman]

I'm aware of that, Mark. But does that mean we are doomed to an escalation of vehicle weights until we are all driving tanks?

If a Miata (2400lbs) hits an Elise (1975lbs) it isn't that big a deal. It isn't until some fool shows up in an Escalade (5665lbs) or H1 Hummer (7213lbs) that there is an issue.

I'm one to keep the government out of things, so let's just say I can't wait until gas hits $10+ a gallon.

One of the few times I'll agree with Ralph Nader, all vehicles and drivers are dangerous (including me, but I at least try to keep my mind on driving in a safer manner).

Not a "big deal", in your narrow view I see? Or until some fool driving @90-100mph, hits me from behind while I haven't been able to focus on every last vehicle of the hundreds that surround me on the freeways, and that fool is in such a hurry to reduce their boring long commute (like dd ) that they are driving to fast that they are 30mph faster than me @70mph, such that a minor error in concentration from being tired, not enough coffee in the morning, too much of a hangover, etc; that they plow into/clip, just barely touch my rear end such that I get whacked out of control inot other cars which starts a chain reaction where I end up getting killed...no matter if I drive the safest rated car out there.

Safest rated cars of any size/weight can only do so much. There are plent of dead people you are unaware of that could testify to this fact, if they were not dead, lol. Hmm, is jtr around to tell us how safe modern engineered cars are, so it's a really low risk to drive @100mph, just like he uses ever excuse in the book to irrationaly avoid flying in jets across the oceans?

PS, that 2ton BMW 5 series just got a mediocre review in the latest ISTH tests, don't get into an accident (ie. never cross and intersection, where you are a sitting duck unless you have bug like 360 rotating eyes, and a brain that will out multi-thread an Penryn CPU, in processing every angle of view at an intersection such that your 'safety' manuverable/performance car can allow to you avoid getting hit broadside...don't be talking to the g/f either, you don't have 8-core enabled software update for multi-threading processes like that ) where the side of the vehicle gets hit, same for many SUV's.

I'd like to see a door on any current or future car that can prevent death or serious injury while hit straight on @45mph (typical speeds around LA for example, I've seen 50-60 regularly, and a few deadly accidents too) from the side by a 3 ton SUV...that would be engineering impossibility, and I challenge jtr or anyone else to show me how it could be accomplished. Might as well just be falling from 40,000ft to your death in one of the few airplane crashes per thousands of flights per year across the oceans.

BTW, we had the last political elections, Dems took control of the Congress, even though the cynics said that the rapid decline in fuel/gas prices for autos had something to do with Republicans trying to keep control of the Congress, after record high prices per gallon. Now prices are back to nearly the same. Guess what, no matter that f_vo on his trip to LA did not see the agressive A-hole drivers in this town, back then and every week since then, I have seen or almost been in an accident with countless A-hole drivers, mostly younger males. But there was that 20/30's something female driving a late model Audi A4 sedan. I was signaling at an intersection to make a righthand turn, from a stop at a intersection controlled by lights. Red for me, so cross traffic has the right of way. All lanes where clear except for this one woman coming in the direction of the street I wanted to make a turn into. She must have not been paying any attention, probably talking on her cell phone (which is epidemic in LA, hell, even the Spanish illegal alien maids waiting at the bus stop are busy talking into their hands free microphones attached to their cell phones while waiting for the bus to arrive) so she seemed to be slowing down as she came up to the intersection, and I thought the be-otch was going to make a turn down the street I was at, without signalling her intentions as is standard protocol . So I edged out slightling into the intersection to indicate I was making my turn initiation and even though the street she was on had 3 lanes open to her...Olympic Blvd is 6 lanes wide in some sections...she crossed the intersection slowly, and honkin at me and as she passed by I could see her open side windows to which she took the time to turn her head at me and yell at the top of her lungs "Fuck You!!" LMAO, can we say aggressive a-hole driver? At stop lights virtually everyday, where parked cars are allowed along busy business streets, you will alwasy find a young punk, in a performace car usually, but they all do it no matter what care they have, a young male driver will pull over and an intersection where there is a red light, pretending like they are going to turn right on to the side street, when in fact as soon as the light turns green they punch that accelerator pedal to the max, risky smacking into the parked cars ahead or playing Russian Roulette that they will be able to rudely force their way ahead of startled cars in the normal traffic lanes.

Every Effin week I see this, every street I drive on...and do those drivers get to their destinations any faster? Many times they do this, and it's only a few intersections later they are turning onto a side street and they saved but mere seconds, not even a whole minute of time. Fuel economy, saving the world, get serious. Only people who have very large fuel costs because they drive long distances for their jobs (and they have to pay for those fuel costs) worry about $4 or more per gallon. The A-hole driving SUV's, economy cars, Hummers; NONE of them could care less about the way they drive. Some of them may bitch if they price of fuel goes up a dollar or two, but I can gaurantee you @10/gal, they will still be driving the same way, causing accidents that are sometimes very deadly for the victims of their selfish attitudes.


http://www.iihs.org/news/default.html

New crash tests: some midsize SUVs perform worse than many cars in side testshttp://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr101107.html



Popularity of high-performance motorcycles helps push rider deaths to near-record high
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr091107.html



New side tests of large luxury cars: luxury doesn't always buy safety (BMW 5 series)
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr081607.html




Bumpers on luxury cars aren't luxurious: worst is Infiniti G35; 4 of 11 cars sustain more than $10,000 damage in 4 minor bumps (sorry dd, I disagree, gov. should mandate even stricter safety crash regulations as well as fuel economy rates, failing these which would cost all of us in insurance rates over time, you have to look at the big picture, not just your own selfish desires for go-cart cars, lol)




http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr080207.html

 

[ddrueding]

Wow, uda, I hope you type fast, because that must have taken a while.

I read at least the first couple sentences of each paragraph, honest

Weight/Mass is the easiest way to add safety, but it isn't the only way, and it isn't a guarantee of safety.

Look at Formula One cars or the McLaren F1 as examples. I recall a story of someone who was driving a McLaren @ 200+ and wrecked for "about a mile" and walked away. Expensive? Sure, but plenty possible.

 

[ddrueding]

Looking at the DTS, I hope I get an "or similar". 4.6L engine that produces less than 300hp? A 4-speed automatic? I didn't even know they still made those! What crap.

 

[LunarMist]

Good grief! Why should anyone care about the transmission of a rental car? Are you planning to take the passengers to the race track or drive like a maniac in the city? If anything you will create the negative impression of being spoiled and snobbish.

 

[ddrueding]

I'm not thinking about them here, I'm the one that has to drive it. Having 4 forward gears (vs. Mercedes' 7) will make it that much harder to accelerate smoothly and deal with the hills in the city. And I am paying for gas, so some sense of efficiency would be nice.

 

[e_dawg]

You are taking a bit of a chance with safety when getting a lightweight car. You don't have to participate in weight escalation and get a bigger car just to be safer, but you don't have to lead the reduction movement either. A hybrid or diesel does a good job of reducing fuel consumption without having to go all "tin can" I wouldn't sacrifice safety just to be environmentally responsible, as most accidents are simply unavoidable no matter how nimble your car and hands are.

Civic Hybrid would be a good choice. Good blend of safety, size, features, performance, practicality, styling, fuel economy, and price.

I wouldn't mind seeing all non-compact (i.e., bigger than RAV4, CRV) SUV's and "minivans" classified as light trucks (the truck based ones already are) and requiring a different license to operate them. Even big cars like the Town Car, some Caddies, Lexus L, BMW 7, Mercedes S, Audi A8 could benefit from a different license. Too often, you see some idiot who can't even keep the damn thing in the lane. Just this morning, some idiot in a Honda Pilot was driving with his right wheels on the line / just inside the next lane for a while. I was tempted to call it in to the cops but he eventually centered the Pilot in the lane after about 3 minutes.

 

[P5-133XL]

When dealing with mass vs. efficiency and safety the issue, to some extent, becomes how do you use your car.

If most of your mileage is on the freeway, the mass issue isn't a significant efficiency issue because most of your mileage loss is through air resistance. However, in accidents on the freeway, mass matters alot. The more energy that is transfered to the other car and the less on yours, the safer you will be.

However, in the city, where stop and go is the norm then almost all of the efficiency loss occurs because you are accelerating and decelerating mass and thereby smaller is much better. Further, in the city, the accidents that happen are much more likely to be at slower speeds so that there is far less energy to be dissipated so you are more likely to be safe.

 

[ddrueding]

I'll agree with e_dawg and Mark on all counts above. It is with great joy that I announce the impending end of my insane commute. Within a couple months, my commute will be down to 5-15 miles. This has me looking to more "normal" cars, where extreme efficiency isn't as big a factor.

Then again, the driving I do will be more "city" driving, so a smaller, more maneuverable car would be more beneficial. I still want an Elise.

But the GF is very concerned that I'm not looking at 4-door cars, as it's clearly a sign that I don't want children (the jury is still out on that one).

So I might give her what she wants and get an Evo X.

 

[Fushigi]

The more energy that is transfered to the other car and the less on yours, the safer you will be.

Just be prepared to live with the potential for increased injuries you might inflict upon others in that situation. You may save your life at the intentional (the vehicle was your choice to buy/drive) cost of another.

So I might give her what she wants and get an Evo X. :wink:

Yeah, I like the new Evo's style much better than the last couple of generations and I like it way better than the WRX. And I currently drive a Mitsu that has been very reliable so I've no problem with the brand. Not sure I could get the WAF on an Evo, though.

 

[timwhit]

Then again, the driving I do will be more "city" driving, so a smaller, more maneuverable car would be more beneficial. I still want an Elise.

I know someone trying to sell a Lotus Exige. It's in Chicago though. Bright Yellow. Apparently the ride is pretty harsh. He's a big guy and can't fit into it very well. I have no idea why he bought it in the first place. I think it has less than 2k miles on it.

 

[e_dawg]

Then again, the driving I do will be more "city" driving, so a smaller, more maneuverable car would be more beneficial. I still want an Elise.

Oh, come on, dd! Stop using the cloak of practicality and utility to justify your choices. You just want a cool, stylish, fun car! Admit it, we all do!

But the GF is very concerned that I'm not looking at 4-door cars, as it's clearly a sign that I don't want children (the jury is still out on that one).

LOL... What else is new? Women...

So I might give her what she wants and get an Evo X.

Giving her what she wants? Oh dear. You're going down a dangerous road, my friend. First thing it's a 4 door, next it's wedding bells. And what's that I hear? Waaah! Waaah! You're going to be a daddy soon enough Just bugging you, man...

 

[P5-133XL]

Just be prepared to live with the potential for increased injuries you might inflict upon others in that situation. You may save your life at the intentional (the vehicle was your choice to buy/drive) cost of another.

Ahh, the moral/ethical issue: Your life vs. someone else's.

I would argue several points. First, I am responsible for my own life; my families; my friends; and finally others: In that order. Second, I can only control my own actions, not of others and thereby am not responsible if the they did not optimize their choice of car for safety, while I did. Third, I would argue the reasonableness in my choice: As long as the mass is within reasonably expected values (which is a quite broad spectrum considering there are loaded semi's sharing the road with me), then the other guy is knowingly accepting the risk by simply being on the road.

Please note, that I am not underestimating the emotional damage that occurs if, during an accident, I live while the other person dies. However, which is the preferable outcome -- Me dead, and the other guy alive? I believe that me suffering the emotional trauma is preferable over my death.

 

[ddrueding]

I also don't think that maneuverability/small size can be discounted as a safety factor. At least once a week I get out of a situation another car put me in; merging into me, spinning out in front of me, cutting me off, etc. Many of these were situations that would have led to contact if it weren't for me having a maneuverable car and good reflexes. When I was riding a CBR600F4i in San Francisco it was a daily thing. Yes, a heavy car makes you survive accidents better, but I'd rather avoid them in the first place.

 

[P5-133XL]

Top Gear - Pearl P50

DD's ultimate automotive choice!