The storageforum Audi S4 Thread

[Stereodude]

I can understand the awkwardness. I managed to avoid it (at least in my head) by never even asking for a quote. Tire Rack just ships straight to his shop and I call to let him know they're mine after they arrive.

I've had a little hemming and hawing, but after I tell them what I paid for the tires they usually mutter something about it being well below their cost and they quickly move on.

So according to the Hunter GSP9700 Equipment Locator my shop has a "Road Touch Force". Is that something I would have to ask for?

That depends. If they have multiple balancers they may charge extra for the GSP9700 if you want it, otherwise you don't get it. You'd need to ask the shop.

 

[Handruin]

I made an appointment to get mine rebalanced with a GSP9700 with road force trak and straight touch.

I talked to the guy who sold them to me and he pretty much said they can't be returned because they're now used even though I offered logic which suggests I can't determine balance issues without using them and he only repeated the same statement.

After suggesting my dissatisfaction he said they would pay up to $20 per wheel to rebalance but I need to send him before and after pics of the balancer screen. I then argued my shop charges $25/tire to balance he eventually agreed they'd reimburse me.

He said if it's more than being out of balance I'll have to send the wheel to TSW for warranty work and if it's a tire I'll have to work with my local shop to fill out a warranty claim with Michelin. I'll have to wait until Monday until I'll know more about which direction this will have to go.

 

[Stereodude]

I talked to the guy who sold them to me and he pretty much said they can't be returned because they're now used even though I offered logic which suggests I can't determine balance issues without using them and he only repeated the same statement.

After suggesting my dissatisfaction he said they would pay up to $20 per wheel to rebalance but I need to send him before and after pics of the balancer screen. I then argued my shop charges $25/tire to balance he eventually agreed they'd reimburse me.

He said if it's more than being out of balance I'll have to send the wheel to TSW for warranty work and if it's a tire I'll have to work with my local shop to fill out a warranty claim with Michelin. I'll have to wait until Monday until I'll know more about which direction this will have to go.

Who did you buy from? I want to make sure I never do business with them.

 

[Handruin]

I got them from getyourwheels.com. Seemed like an ok place from initial searching. I'll have a better take on things next week after I go through the process of getting them balanced.

 

[Handruin]

Yesterday I got my windows tinted and while I was their shop I got a taste of a Mercedes SLS AMG Renntech edition. It's here in the area for a Gold Rush Rally event in Boston and they were getting their windows re-tinted because some other installer did a bad job. The guy at the shop claimed the car was north of around $500K and said this is one of 250 made for the USA. It also had some pretty fancy HRE wheels on it which I wouldn't be surprised if they're upwards of $3-$4K each...I bet they don't have any vibration problems. I looked up the Renntech tune and from the little I searched made it seem like the upgrade alone costs around $80K?! I don't know if the $500K is true but I'm sure it has to be at least near $300K or higher for this car.

 

[ddrueding]

Configured correctly an SLS is $250+ all by itself. That number sounds high but not out of the question.

On the first read I made it 6 words in before switching to look at the pictures. First thought: Handy is doing well these days...

 

[mubs]

Cool! DD, I too thought that was Handy's new car before reading. May it come true.

 

[Handruin]

I took my car in this morning to get the wheels rebalanced via their roadforce balancer. The end report was that three of the four had excessive road force above a value of 20 which is what they deem as too high and requires correction. One was at 23, one 24, the other 22, and the fourth was at 17. He also said one tire wasn’t mounted correctly and the fourth wheel needed balancing even though it didn’t have road force issues. Basically all four of the wheels needed fixing which is pretty ridiculous. This means they either don’t road force balance or they do and don’t really care. I have some pictures of the readouts that they were able to take for me to show the results but I don't have it for all four unfortunately.

I’ll be interested to see what happens next. The sales/support guy Jason from their company said that he’d only offer up to $25/wheel for paying for the rebalancing but my local guy charged me $45/wheel. I wasn’t going to drive to the next furthest place to get it cheaper because it’s a pain to get there and I know my local guy does good work. I suspect Jason and I are going to be at odds with this situation so I’m curious if any of you have ever worked with your credit card company on contesting a charge with a merchant in which they didn’t deliver a satisfactory product? Specifically in this case to charge back the price I paid for the wheels and offer Jason to have me return them at his cost.

 

[Howell]

I have not; but your card company might be able to give you advice since it I'd not cut and dried.
Work your way up the responsibility chain if you have the time. They may have an in-house training issue. Also remember you can threaten small claims court.

 

[Stereodude]

I took my car in this morning to get the wheels rebalanced via their roadforce balancer. The end report was that three of the four had excessive road force above a value of 20 which is what they deem as too high and requires correction. One was at 23, one 24, the other 22, and the fourth was at 17. He also said one tire wasn’t mounted correctly and the fourth wheel needed balancing even though it didn’t have road force issues. Basically all four of the wheels needed fixing which is pretty ridiculous. This means they either don’t road force balance or they do and don’t really care. I have some pictures of the readouts that they were able to take for me to show the results but I don't have it for all four unfortunately.

But does it drive smoothly now?

 

[Handruin]

But does it drive smoothly now?

I don't know yet. They're smooth up to 45MPH from what I can tell. My typical commute avoids the highway and is mostly back-roads. I will try later tonight when traffic calms down and see if I notice any issues.

 

[mubs]

I doubt it does with those kinds of roadforce results. Quite a bit out of line, I would say.

 

[Handruin]

I doubt it does with those kinds of roadforce results. Quite a bit out of line, I would say.

Which part? Do you think the road force values are still too high or they should be good now? I'm sure I'll know more once I can get up to faster speeds.

 

[Stereodude]

I doubt it does with those kinds of roadforce results. Quite a bit out of line, I would say.

I presume he didn't just have them measured, he also had them re-weighted and balanced correctly.

 

[Handruin]

I presume he didn't just have them measured, he also had them re-weighted and balanced correctly.

I requested all four to be rebalanced and the info was based on the before and after the work was performed. I wasn't able to watch them do the work but I'm assuming they added new weights were-applicable.

 

[snowhiker]

Hopefully everything is finally fixed Handy. Funny, every time I read this thread and you guys talk about some upgrade option I'm thinking, "that {item} is worth more than my entire "car."

As far as any credit card charge back goes, don't do it. Yes you are in the right, but "shitty-company" may just send the charge back amount to collections, or some other douche-baggery thing. $8000 difference fight'em, $80, not worth the risk, or your time IMHO.

 

[Howell]

Though it may be worth the alternative negative reputation to them if you a have platform somewhere.

 

[Handruin]

I had a chance to get the car up to speed and I don't perceive any vibrations at higher speeds but I'm cautiously optimistic. I'd like to spend a little more time on the highway to feel comfortable this has been solved. I sent him an email earlier today with all the details that I shared here and I worded things much to the suggestion Howell offered which was to route this up their management chain if this guy isn't able to help me. I told him I'm going to need the full cost of this reimbursed. I haven't heard back so I'll likely have to call him tomorrow. I have tried to email to keep a record of events but he hasn't been responsive this way.

Thanks snowhiker for the warning about charge back and collections I wasn't aware that this is what could happen. I'd rather not let it go there but I don't want to lose leverage if time runs out for using my credit card company to help me with this which is why I was asking. I was thinking along the lines that Howell offered again which is to use the Audi forums to voice complaints if he's unable to make things right. He uses their forums to generate business much like my own so offering a buyer beware over there might be worth it if he's going to push me in eating the difference in cost to make this right. I'll propose it to him if $80 if worth the review of my experience with their company.

 

[mubs]

AFAIR, roadforce balance values are always calculated after the wheel has been balanced in the best possible way, unless you ask for a "before" look. And AFAIK, 20+ values are a tad on the higher side; premium wheels and tyres shouldn't be exhibiting these kinds of values. IIRC, the highest on my car is 15 and lowest is 10. Stock alloys, stock tyres changed to Pirelli P7s. Ultimately, if you're happy with highway speeds, that's all counts, screw the RF values.

I go to the guy here who's the distributor for Hunter equipment, so he always has the latest / greatest and knows his stuff.

Eating $100 is one thing, but living with a set of dud wheels / tyres is entirely another matter.

 

[Handruin]

AFAIR, roadforce balance values are always calculated after the wheel has been balanced in the best possible way, unless you ask for a "before" look. And AFAIK, 20+ values are a tad on the higher side; premium wheels and tyres shouldn't be exhibiting these kinds of values. IIRC, the highest on my car is 15 and lowest is 10. Stock alloys, stock tyres changed to Pirelli P7s. Ultimately, if you're happy with highway speeds, that's all counts, screw the RF values.

I go to the guy here who's the distributor for Hunter equipment, so he always has the latest / greatest and knows his stuff.

Eating $100 is one thing, but living with a set of dud wheels / tyres is entirely another matter.

Thanks for the additional feedback on this. I was reading various reports online of people recommending 15lb or less as ideal also but that seemed to come from a specific Miata forum so I didn't know if that was something more noticeable in their cars.

I think what concerns me is exactly what you've described in that living with a set of wheels and tires that will never be able to be balanced more than they are now. It may be possible for another shop to do more but I feel like the shop I go to is pretty experienced with this and likely got them to the best they could get.

I never heard back from the wheel guy today so I'll have to give a call tomorrow. I did call my credit card company to understand their policies and they were ready to jump on the dispute but I called mainly to understand the process if I need to go this route. I also wanted it noted on my account that I'm having issues with a merchant before my 30 day window closes. They said it would be best to call back specifically to the dispute department during their normal business hours to get more info so I'll call and ask about that tomorrow also.

 

[Handruin]

I still haven't seen any confirmation that they will reimburse me to make things right. I've chose to selectively post in the Audi forums the history of my transaction with this company for a potential future buyer. Hopefully my feedback doesn't generate a cease and desist letter but maybe it'll get them motivated to help me.

 

[ddrueding]

Now that I also posses a B8.5 A4-based vehicle, I figure a related question can go in here?

I'm designing a custom phone mount with integrated wireless charging, which I'll have 3D printed out of matte black steel by shapeways.

I want to mount the phone between the MMI screen and the main instrument cluster. Looking at the panel on the oCarbon page, you can see that this is a complicated piece to mount to. Replacements seem fairly attainable, so I don't mind drilling though the panel.

The best commercially available solution seems to be the ProClip USA vent-mounted unit. This is too low and blocks airflow.

What are you guys using? Any suggestions? Do you happen to know where I could get an accurate 3d model of the dash to base my model?

 

[Stereodude]

I just put my phone in the cup holders. I generally don't use it while driving. It's just resting there.

 

[ddrueding]

Mine gets quite the workout; Waze has saved me from a number of tickets already, and Dogcatcher, Pandora or Audible is running 99% of the time.

 

[Handruin]

Now that I also posses a B8.5 A4-based vehicle, I figure a related question can go in here?

I'm designing a custom phone mount with integrated wireless charging, which I'll have 3D printed out of matte black steel by shapeways.

I want to mount the phone between the MMI screen and the main instrument cluster. Looking at the panel on the oCarbon page, you can see that this is a complicated piece to mount to. Replacements seem fairly attainable, so I don't mind drilling though the panel.

The best commercially available solution seems to be the ProClip USA vent-mounted unit. This is too low and blocks airflow.

What are you guys using? Any suggestions? Do you happen to know where I could get an accurate 3d model of the dash to base my model?

I just put my phone in the cup holders. I generally don't use it while driving. It's just resting there.

I'm in the same situation. I usually put my phone in the cup holder also and don't use it while driving. It's usually plugged in and I stream music from Spotify.

 

[Handruin]

Mine gets quite the workout; Waze has saved me from a number of tickets already, and Dogcatcher, Pandora or Audible is running 99% of the time.

I haven't used Waze much. I usually switch between Soundcloud, Spotify, and Pocket Casts for pod cast listening.

 

[ddrueding]

The advantages of Waze tie directly to the density of active users in your area. Around here it is pretty awesome; nearly every accident, traffic jam, road closure, and police trap is updated rapidly.

 

[Clocker]

If you want to scan in your IP look for places local to you that perform white light scanning. That should be plenty accurate for your needs.

 

[Handruin]

The advantages of Waze tie directly to the density of active users in your area. Around here it is pretty awesome; nearly every accident, traffic jam, road closure, and police trap is updated rapidly.

I'm not against Waze, I just haven't spent enough time with it to realize its value. I don't have the population density that you likely have so I don't know how valuable it'll be for me. If I had a decent mount like you've proposed it would probably make things easier.

 

[timwhit]

I'm not against Waze, I just haven't spent enough time with it to realize its value. I don't have the population density that you likely have so I don't know how valuable it'll be for me. If I had a decent mount like you've proposed it would probably make things easier.

Aren't you pretty close to Boston?

 

[Handruin]

Aren't you pretty close to Boston?

I live about 20 miles outside of Boston proper and my work is probably 3-5 miles outside of Cambridge. I don't venture much into the city and take mostly back roads to work so I don't have a ton or re-routing options. I've explored almost all of them at this point.

 

[Stereodude]

I plan to have the DWS 06 tires roadforce balanced via Hunter GSP9700 after I have them mounted. I pick my tire shop based on whether they have a GSP9700 or not. So far so good on the S4.

It only took 6 months after getting them, but I finally got the DWS 06 tires installed this morning. I went to a shop with a Hunter GSP9700. Paid $177.21 out the door for mounting and balancing. Mounted tires were between 18 and 27lbs according to the report. It drives nice and straight with no pull either side, and certainly doesn't tramline like the old tires (P7 Cinturato). Turn in isn't nearly as crisp, but the tires only have a few miles on them, and need some miles on them to wear off the mold release lubricant. They are nice and quiet though. When I get home I will check the lug nut torque and adjust the air pressure.

 

[Handruin]

WHy'd you wait 6 months to put them on? Were they on sale and you couldn't resist a deal or something?

I'm still rolling on summer tires. The temperatures in my area are still warm enough and we haven't had any snow yet. I keep my eye on the forecast but this is the latest into a season that I've been driving on my summers since 2012. Usually the first time we have a snowfall I'll change them over but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Stereodude]

WHy'd you wait 6 months to put them on? Were they on sale and you couldn't resist a deal or something?

Mostly laziness combined with a bit of desire to get as many miles out of the old summers before tossing 'em. I got the tires 6 months ago because I had originally planned to put them on at the beginning of the season. However, the P7 Cinturato weren't quite at the wear bars and still basically drove okay so I got complacent. Also, Continental employees can only buy so many tires per calendar year at a discount, so you tend to do better hitting up friends for tires toward the beginning of the year.

I'm still rolling on summer tires. The temperatures in my area are still warm enough and we haven't had any snow yet. I keep my eye on the forecast but this is the latest into a season that I've been driving on my summers since 2012. Usually the first time we have a snowfall I'll change them over but that hasn't happened yet.

I've often switched by this point in the year also. Usually when I wake up and see slush on the driveway or see a snowstorm in the weather forecast. That hasn't happened yet this year. Now with the DWS 06 I can basically wait as long as I want.

I've got 57k miles on the original rotors and pads and the shop told me they look good. I've never had a set of rotors and pads last anywhere near this long on any other car I've driven. :bomb:

 

[mubs]

I have P7 Cinturatos on my car as well. Decent tyres.

BTW, I read somewhere (AS Technica?) a day or two ago that Audi is in the shithouse for having defeat devices on petrol models as well. Didn't read the whole article.

 

[Stereodude]

There's a recall on my S4 for emissions, but in the opposite way. Apparently, the internal sensors in the car are set too stringently and may throw a CEL when it shouldn't. I haven't taken it in yet.

 

[Stereodude]

I checked the tire pressure and the lug nut torque this morning. They basically inflated the tires to the max rating on the load sticker. I adjusted them down from the target 41/41 to 36/33. The DWS 06 has a higher load rating of 97 vs. the stock P7 Cinturato rating of 93, so I backed off the pressure a few more pounds from the number in the manual. The lug nut torque was way past the expected ~85ft-lbs. I'd say they were >150. I can't say definitively since my torque wrench doesn't go that high. I backed them off and torqued them to ~85ft-lbs.

 

[Handruin]

I usually torque the lug bolts to 90ft-lbs when I swap over my wheels thinking that my torque wrench may be a little off and I'd rather error on the side of a little tighter than loose. After driving around for 25-40 miles I'll recheck them to make sure everything is ok and leave it be until the next time I need to swap wheels. Whoever impacted them to 150+ft-lb is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Stereodude]

Whoever impacted them to 150+ft-lb is kind of ridiculous.

That or they have a gorilla working there.

 

[mubs]

They probably used a pneumatic tool. Even in the best shops, I have to scream that I want the lug nuts tightened by hand with a torque wrench.