Thinkpad SL series?

[ddrueding]

I typically tell people to buy from the ThinkPad line if they can afford it, but now it seems there is a cheapo - the ThinkPad SL line.

Is it any good? At that price I can't help but think it isn't.

 

[Mercutio]

Those look like Ideapads that have been upgraded with a subset of Thinkpad features. I don't think Ideapad are awful as far as consumer hardware goes they're probably on par with Inspiron/Vostros from Dell and a step up from Toshiba or Acer.

 

[Mercutio]

Those look like Ideapads that have been upgraded with a subset of Thinkpad features. I don't think Ideapad are awful as far as consumer hardware goes they're probably on par with Inspiron/Vostros from Dell and a step up from Toshiba or Acer.

 

[Tannin]

These are the only Thinkpad you can buy now, unless you are sickeningly wealthy. (Your market may be different, it's certainly the case here in Oz.)

I was doubtful about them but, having no choice, have sold several now. I don't like the DVD arrangement - it's not the excellent interchangable slot bizo that the R Series and T Series use, just an orthodox part that can't be replaced by (e.g.) a hard drive in a caddy. I don't like the missing Thinklight. (I couldn't give a bugger about the stupid webcam, give me a keyboard light that I can use to do something useful!)

Other than that, they are pretty nice. They still have most of the traditonal Thinkpad features, including the magnesium allow roll cage, the water-resistant keyboard, and so on. They feel solid and robust, build quality and finish remains up to the usual Thinkpad standard, the keyboard has a good feel, they finally have a decent number of USB ports ..... I like them.

For myself, I'd spend the extra (quite a lot extra) and get an R or T because I want docking station port, Thinklight, and second hard drive. But I'm happy to sell and recommend them.

 

[Mercutio]

A Thinkpad - or possibly a Macbook Pro, if you swing that way, is only expensive if it's not a professional tool for you. I'm perfectly willing to spend US$2500 on a notebook, knowing how I'm going to use it and how much I'm going to use it.

The biggest problem I have these days is people who want to buy $379 laptops "because I don't need very much for a notebook."

Then they start bitching three months after they bought it about how thus and such broke and isn't covered by the warranty, etc.

 

[Handruin]

Even as a professional tool, the mac book pro's seem rather expensive for what you get. I don't understand why they are worth such a high premium. Why a 4GB to 8GB ram upgrade costs $1000 over is insane (a 4GB stick is about $390 for that notebook).

 

[ddrueding]

Thanks for the relies, it is a shame that IBM is diluting their top-end product line. Now I can't just say "buy a ThinkPad", now I have to add "except the SL".

 

[udaman]

Even as a professional tool, the mac book pro's seem rather expensive for what you get. I don't understand why they are worth such a high premium. Why a 4GB to 8GB ram upgrade costs $1000 over is insane (a 4GB stick is about $390 for that notebook).

^^^Link please

And how much does the asus Lambo laptop cost Handy, if you know?

 

[Handruin]

Here is the configuration link for the macbook pro. There is a selection option to change from 4GB memory to 8GB (a 4GB upgrade) and the price is listed as $1000 USD.

If you go to crucial.com and select apple mac book pro 2.93GHz DDR3 the price is listed as $389.99 for a single 4GB DDR3-1066 SODIMM. Even if I configured the mac book with 4GB and threw away the ram and bought two 4GB crucial sticks that are brand new, it would be a couple hundred dollars cheaper than apple's upgrade from 4 to 8GB.

I have no idea how much an asus Lambo costs on the norm...but it looks to be in the same price range as a mac book pro from quick google searching. It doesn't look to be worth the money unless you like the looks of it over the functionality. If I were to spend multiple thousands on a laptop, I'd consider the Lenovo W series with the expandable monitor and quad core before either the mac book pro or the asus.

 

[Mercutio]

Even as a professional tool, the mac book pro's seem rather expensive for what you get. I don't understand why they are worth such a high premium.

They say Apple on them. That's like $1500 right there.
I'd like to say they're just offsetting the cost of developing the design of the Macbook Pro, but it's a gouging. There are content creation people who will pay whatever price Apple puts on a Macbook Pro, to get the high end screen and support for huge amounts of RAM and whatever else MBPs do.

One of my customer bought two of them instead of new Mac desktops. I'm going to be really interested in finding out how well that works out. I guess they aren't even going to get them for four weeks or more; estimated ship date is in April, anyway.

 

[Handruin]

Didn't you mention a while back that you liked the mac book pro? Cost aside, what was it that you liked about them?

 

[ddrueding]

I like the look of the hardware, but the screens are no longer top-end, according to some recent reviews. If I had infinite money, and didn't have a lot of computing needs, I would consider a MBP. But the Thinkpad W700DS would win, every time.

 

[Handruin]

I know you guys said the ideapads are the lower grade, but the ideapad Y650 looks kind of nice both visually and in spec. I've not seen one in person, but the pictures look nice.

 

[udaman]

Here is the configuration link for the macbook pro. There is a selection option to change from 4GB memory to 8GB (a 4GB upgrade) and the price is listed as $1000 USD.

If you go to crucial.com and select apple mac book pro 2.93GHz DDR3 the price is listed as $389.99 for a single 4GB DDR3-1066 SODIMM. Even if I configured the mac book with 4GB and threw away the ram and bought two 4GB crucial sticks that are brand new, it would be a couple hundred dollars cheaper than apple's upgrade from 4 to 8GB.

I have no idea how much an asus Lambo costs on the norm...but it looks to be in the same price range as a mac book pro from quick google searching. It doesn't look to be worth the money unless you like the looks of it over the functionality. If I were to spend multiple thousands on a laptop, I'd consider the Lenovo W series with the expandable monitor and quad core before either the mac book pro or the asus.

You would have no choice Handy, systems come configured (all manufacturers that I know of have base memory included in base price...no choice) as such, upgrade on a thin MBP, means there are only 2 dimm slots, period. If you want more mem slots, got to go to another company. Go to the cheapy's Dell, there workstation laptops are configurable with quad core, just like asus' lappys, with more slots, can go up to 16GB 4x4GB(wrong point there Merc...typicial ignorance from a *non* power user)...yet at least Dell doesn't offer any 4GB modules or any 64bit OS that could take advantage of more than total 4GB of RAM on their configuration tables for the Dell workstations, lol

Therefore, you *must* pay crucial's price for a 8GB upgrade which is less than a $200 difference. this old apple bashing for too high a price on RAM goes back decades...aren't you bored with that yet Handy ?

Apple used to really gouge on memory upgrades, so anyone with minimal skillz just upgraded with 3rd party memory...that the vendor certs will work in an Apple machine.

Nerds.com are out of stock, but they link to Buycom for $688. When all you SF peeps are used to buying low end, user made, cheapo systems, then you balk at preconfigured systems with limited memory slots and high priced newer memory. The rest, M$ or Apple users just buy what they need, regardless of the price...if they need it. None of you *need* it, so you whine about price, lol

They say Apple on them. That's like $1500 right there.
I'd like to say they're just offsetting the cost of developing the design of the Macbook Pro, but it's a gouging. There are content creation people who will pay whatever price Apple puts on a Macbook Pro, to get the high end screen and support for huge amounts of RAM and whatever else MBPs do.

glass trackpad, multi-touch 'gestures'...kind of like practicing squeezing nipples Merc, you should get one (hey, it's all the rage now, everyone wants an iPhone, even Ms Gates...mean Bill, won't let the kids have any Apple products)


Wrong Merc, typical Apple bashing- but we expect that . People on the M$ side (not you here on SF) will spend just as much, in fact much more than the top-end loaded SSD's drive MBP 17in.

Because on the PC side there are far more options, quad CPU's, bigger screens, 16:9 ratio LED backlit screens with update more accurate colors...blah, blah, blah (all Mac are still at 16:10), Blu-ray drive options, testicle burning high-end GPU's, thick, thick cases-dual drive bays, turbo fans---all those mega dollar, true high-end laptops are for
you Merc, that you can't get in the top Apple laptops

 

[udaman]

AFAIK, Apple's not using Crucial memory in their MBP 17in, I could be wrong. They have historically used the higher grade Samsung memory, which costs *more* than Crucial modules...just a FYI for you Apple bashers .

Now if Apple used crucial, and even a few systems started having any RAM memory problems at all, you can bet Merc would be all over it in a flash. I forget if apple ever used Western Digital drives, anyone?

 

[Handruin]

You would have no choice Handy, systems come configured (all manufacturers that I know of have base memory included in base price...no choice) as such, upgrade on a thin MBP, means there are only 2 dimm slots, period. If you want more mem slots, got to go to another company. Go to the cheapy's Dell, there workstation laptops are configurable with quad core, just like asus' lappys, with more slots, can go up to 16GB 4x4GB(wrong point there Merc...typicial ignorance from a *non* power user)...yet at least Dell doesn't offer any 4GB modules or any 64bit OS that could take advantage of more than total 4GB of RAM on their configuration tables for the Dell workstations, lol

Therefore, you *must* pay crucial's price for a 8GB upgrade which is less than a $200 difference. this old apple bashing for too high a price on RAM goes back decades...aren't you bored with that yet Handy ?

Apple used to really gouge on memory upgrades, so anyone with minimal skillz just upgraded with 3rd party memory...that the vendor certs will work in an Apple machine.

Nerds.com are out of stock, but they link to Buycom for $688. When all you SF peeps are used to buying low end, user made, cheapo systems, then you balk at preconfigured systems with limited memory slots and high priced newer memory. The rest, M$ or Apple users just buy what they need, regardless of the price...if they need it. None of you *need* it, so you whine about price, lol



glass trackpad, multi-touch 'gestures'...kind of like practicing squeezing nipples Merc, you should get one (hey, it's all the rage now, everyone wants an iPhone, even Ms Gates...mean Bill, won't let the kids have any Apple products)


Wrong Merc, typical Apple bashing- but we expect that . People on the M$ side (not you here on SF) will spend just as much, in fact much more than the top-end loaded SSD's drive MBP 17in.

Because on the PC side there are far more options, quad CPU's, bigger screens, 16:9 ratio LED backlit screens with update more accurate colors...blah, blah, blah (all Mac are still at 16:10), Blu-ray drive options, testicle burning high-end GPU's, thick, thick cases-dual drive bays, turbo fans---all those mega dollar, true high-end laptops are for
you Merc, that you can't get in the top Apple laptops

I'm not bashing, I just don't see the value. I didn't want more than 8GB, so 2 DIMM slots is fine. Memory aside, the rest of the hardware specs still don't justify the cost. The touch pad would be disabled, so being glass and multi touch is no selling bonus.

You said it yourself, the high end components on the PC side are what is desirable by me, and the cost is the same as a mac book pro so where is the cost coming from?

 

[Handruin]

AFAIK, Apple's not using Crucial memory in their MBP 17in, I could be wrong. They have historically used the higher grade Samsung memory, which costs *more* than Crucial modules...just a FYI for you Apple bashers .

Now if Apple used crucial, and even a few systems started having any RAM memory problems at all, you can bet Merc would be all over it in a flash. I forget if apple ever used Western Digital drives, anyone?

How do you claim samsung is a higher grade (links?)? I've had great experiences with crucial memory in all the years I've been buying from them.

 

[Mercutio]

I know you guys said the ideapads are the lower grade, but the ideapad Y650 looks kind of nice both visually and in spec. I've not seen one in person, but the pictures look nice.

My brother's company issues Ideapads for some reason (they also don't know how to set up their Exchange server but that's another story), and a couple of my customers have them for personal machines. There's nothing wrong with them. They're solid machines with nice keyboards and good screens. I like that they use some parts in common with Thinkpads. This is particularly helpful for the AC adapter, since those can be found on Ebay for $15 or so.

However, they're still consumer machines.

I like the look of the hardware, but the screens are no longer top-end, according to some recent reviews. If I had infinite money, and didn't have a lot of computing needs, I would consider a MBP. But the Thinkpad W700DS would win, every time.

The place where the MBP wins is in my opinion the extremely long battery life and very high portability for being a 17" unit (3kg). There's an extra $50 cost to get a matte screen, again, that's just Apple dicking people smart enough to care. The available GF9x00 GPUs are also a win, though I'm not sure I would trust them for myself, given the issues with previous-generation chips, but they're unquestionably faster overall for 3D work than the Quadro/FireGL chips that ship in other portable workstations.

The W700DS isn't a notebook. I'm sorry, if something weighs that much and requires THAT much surface area to operate, it's not really portable any more.

 

[Handruin]

I never expected the W700 to fall into the thin and light category, but for a powerful system, it's still more powerful than boxing up your desktop for those who need that kind of power and portability. You're right, I don't think I'd want that on my lap on the couch, but I'd still call it a portable desktop. The Y650 has some nice portability to it. Granted it's not as fast as the W700 series, but it's also close to 1/3rd the cost.

 

[Tannin]

Thanks for the relies, it is a shame that IBM is diluting their top-end product line. Now I can't just say "buy a ThinkPad", now I have to add "except the SL".

Why?

 

[ddrueding]

Why?

Lack of port replicator is a big one. Other than that, nothing I suppose. Just a gut reaction. Perhaps I'll get one in a poke at it.

 

[Mercutio]

Lack of port replicator is a big one. Other than that, nothing I suppose. Just a gut reaction. Perhaps I'll get one in a poke at it.

IBM generally has a low-cost limited feature model in addition a midrange business notebook and an ultraportable. I think the SL is a swipe at some of the dollars that have been going to Vostro notebooks, but Lenovo has such a tiny mindshare in the small business world that I need to spend 10 minutes explaining why I can't just say "IBM" any more every time I bring the company up.

Previous generations of low-cost Thinkpads have been the A- and the R- series. These days Lenovo seems to use Rs as a mid-range product with a few features omitted from the T (my R60 doesn't have a trackpad, only a joy-nipple) with Ts an upper-tier product. I note that they're very proud of the upgraded screens on the T400 and T500, for example.

But Tannin says they're good, and he's obviously sold several of them. OK. Fair enough. That's reason enough to give them a closer look to me.

--

I set up six Latitude E5500s today. I ended up having to remove parts of Dell's Controlpoint software in order to make XP's Wireless Zero Config work. There was no obvious way to turn off Dell's software, and if any part of it initialized it would disable the standard XP Wireless client (and then crash, if any other part wasn't loaded), which is what my customers know how to use and what I prefer to support.

The machines had 250GB 5400rpm Hitachi drives but they were still fairly zippy. They were also a bit heavy for being 15" business notebooks, but that heft did at least translate into a sturdy-feeling chassis. Battery life on a six hour battery was ~4:00.

I bought them for the main reason I ever choose Dell over Lenovo, which is that some Dell configurations ship same-day, whereas it usually takes a month to get a Thinkpad, since I invariably want or need something that isn't in the prebuilt configurations that Newegg or CDW etc. have in stock.

Anyway, an SL500 with two years of accidental damage + warranty winds up being $3 cheaper than the E5500s were with a two year mail-in Dell warranty with generally identical hardware. Not enough to quibble over one way or the other (and I didn't check tax or shipping), but had I not discounted the SL-series I might have been just as well off.

 

[Tannin]

Merc, I think you'll be pretty happy with the SL Thinkpads. They are not T Series or even mainstream R Series units, but they are (in my opinion) a considerable step up from the bottom-level R Series units we used to see. (R60e, was that one of them?) Like the SLs, the bottom-end R Series units had no docking station port, only a joy nipple thing (no trackpad) and .... er ... I can't remember the other details now, but the overall impression they left you with was that of a really spartan, cut-to-the-bone unit. They were the last models to finally get gigabit ethernet, and ... er ... some of the other goodies too.

The mainstream R Series units, in contrast, have always had full connectivity options (docking port, discrete graphics options, trackpad plus joy nipple, all the same things you get on a T Series).

The SLs are in-between. Despite the lack of docking port, they come across as full-featured systems. Doubtless there are things that the bigger Ts and Rs have that they don't (not sure what - frankly, I really only want some CPU grunt, some RAM, full docking options, and as much hard drive as possible in a robust little pakage, so I'm easy to please) but they seem to cover all the important things. They are nicely finished and attractive too.

I'd rather sell what I've always sold: R Series, but people just won't pay the crazy prices they are asking for R Series systems now - they are around 50% more than they were this time last year, and though the dollar has gone down, it hasn't gone down anything like that much. I don't know what Lenovo are playing at, pricing themselves out of the market, it seems. So we are selling SLs and nothing else at present.

As for the lack of brand recognition, I agree: no-one has any respect for "Lenovo" as a brand.

I always say "Thinkpad" - that's a name many people know and respect. Then I explain that Lenovo have been manufacturing IBM Thinkpads under contract for many years and that, a few years ago, they bought the company: staff, offices, patents, intellectual property, head office in Sydney, the guy who answers the phone in Adelaide ... everything. (There is some serious money in China!) To their great credit, they have maintained the exact same policy of making beautifully engineered, very solid, very plain, boring notebooks for the business market that just work: no gimmicks, no frills, just solid engineering. When you think about it, that isn't so surprising: it's the same staff working out of the same R&D facilities after all.

I use pretty much those words. People respond very positively to it as a rule.

 

[Santilli]

Apple expensive? 1320.00 for 32 mb of Memory? That for a 540C. 4000 dollars for the 540C.

I've spent more money on Apple computers then I care to admit.

You pay for the loyal fools that keep buying their stuff, no matter the value, and, that's what keeps Apple in business. Figure they justify the inflated prices as a business write off.

Apple should really have been history when Windows 2000 Pro came out.

I really don't get why a pretty much Linux based OS is so expensive, and, why people by hardware that is inferior, simply because it's stylish. I think that's part of it, as well. People think Apple makes 'cool', 'dope' stuff, so they continue to pay inflated prices for inferior products.

Wonder what it would cost to have a Mac with Dual Xeons, a supermicro motherboard, 5 drive removeable SCSI Supermiro drive bay,
Raid card, 17 drive bays, floppy, removeable Sata drives, and dual DVD burners?
6,566 dollars, and, that's with one Xeon, no scsi, just SATA and a lot of other stuff you can't even get from Apple.

Plus, I'd have to buy their stupid software, and, Photoshop and all that other stuff that I used to have that came with the wonderful MAC Premium as well.

I could kind of understand it back when Apple was lying to everyone, claiming their hardware was THE hardware, and, the only hardware to run their OS on. Now it's just stupid.

EPITHANY!!
Apple is the logical extension of the Kalifornia Nanny State. We make all the choices for you. We decide when you will have SSD's, and that SCSI is out.
We've decided you don't need dual xeons. We will make sure you can't upgrade your computer. Much like Kali cars, we want you to throw the old one away, and buy a new one. It won't go to fast, it won't go too slow, we will choose the speed you need.
We don't trust you with water over 120 degrees in your bathtub, and, we don't want you to be too clean, using over a certain amount of water.
And, God help you if your like David. I'm shocked they haven't locked him up yet...;-)

 

[Mercutio]

Thinkpad T400 torture testing courtesy of Engadget.