problem Toshiba laptop's touchpad malfunction

[apairofpcs]

Hello all,

My two laptops and desktop pc have been working well since my last forum post on Apr. 29, 2015. This is a miracle in itself, since I use all three every day. But the miracle ended today.

I've had my Toshiba A505-S6965 Satellite laptop since Aug. 2009. I replaced the factory HDD with an Intel 530 SSD about two years ago. I can't say enough good about the SSD, but most of you already know the merits of this technology. Everything else is stock.

I've been having sporadic, very rare, failures of the Synaptics touchpad over the last six months or so. The symptom is that the mouse pointer jumps to the upper right corner of the display when I tap on the touchpad to select something. I can use the laptop this way, as long as I use the touchpad to move the mouse pointer and then click on the left button once the pointer is over the item I want to select. This gets to be a burden really fast, though. My touchpad settings have served me well on both laptops, especially the "Momentum / Glide" feature.which is part of the "Pointing" menu.

There were two actions that I took to return the touchpad to normalcy. One was to restart. The other less time consuming one, was to give a brisk tap to the touchpad with my middle finger knuckle. Needless to say, the latter action was a little "extreme", but it always fixed the problem with no negative consequences.. By the way, the problem occurred so rarely that I never asked for advice.

This morning, I took my laptop out of sleep mode and the mouse pointer was moving erratically with every finger slide on the touchpad. In fact, when the problem occurred, the mouse pointer froze wherever it was at the time. It never froze at the dead center of the display, as is customary when a mouse pointer freezes. Once it freezes, I have to navigate with the keyboard. I shut down a few times and the mouse pointer would be normal for a minute. Then it would start acting erratically and freeze. Thinking the touchpad driver may be corrupt, I went to Device Manager and saw that the driver was working properly. I checked for the latest driver and already had it.

Getting desperate, I found a System Restore point I made two days ago. I checked to see if using it would invalidate any installed programs since then. I installed the latest AVG Free 2015 AV program since I made that restore point. But I didn't care that using the most recent restore point would revert AVG to the previous installed version. Unless I do a restore in Safe Mode, it will be unsuccessful in GUI mode. I initiated the restore operation from Safe Mode and it was successful. However, the problem persisted. In fact, the problem appeared in less time of use after the restore operation. I also noticed that when I pressed down hard on the touchpad, the pointer froze where it was at the time. I know that it had nothing to do with the restore operation. I'm sure that my problem is a touchpad hardware problem. I say this with some certainty, because when I press down on the touchpad hard enough, the 4" illuminated bar between the touchpad and the keyboard turn on. When I reduce pressure or remove my finger, it turns off. This never before seen symptom, started today.

I get the feeling that somebody here will advise me to remove the top cover and inspect the switches under the touchpad. I never opened either of my laptops to the extent necessary to get inside, although I replaced the HDD with the SSD and added a memory card to my other laptop. To be truthful, I'm a little squeamish about dismantling the laptop, even though I've been a hands-on guy my entire life. Rest assured that I'm not about to wimp out and take my laptop to a technician, paying big bucks for work that I can perform.

Does anybody have a suggestion to solve the problem, prior to dismantling the laptop? When I troubleshoot using your advice, I'll attach a mouse and follow your instructions.

 

[ddrueding]

My first step would be to confirm that it is a hardware (rather than software) thing. Probably the easiest way to do this is boot to a Linux CD. I'm leaning towards hardware, but this is a pretty painless way to check things out.

 

[apairofpcs]

My first step would be to confirm that it is a hardware (rather than software) thing. Probably the easiest way to do this is boot to a Linux CD. I'm leaning towards hardware, but this is a pretty painless way to check things out.

Concentrating on a hardware problem. What does it mean to you that the problem also exists in Safe Mode w/networking, which is what I discovered when I ran my latest restore point? Based on this, I'd say that the touchpad has a faulty mechanical connection with the electronics below it. Regretably, this would require dismantling it.

 

[ddrueding]

I'd agree that it is most likely, but I use three different criteria for deciding which troubleshooting step to try next.

1. Likelyhood
2. Difficulty
3. Possibility of repair

An OS issue is less likely, but it is easy to check and easy to repair if it turns out to be the case. The more likely scenario (busted touchpad) scores very low on both the other criteria.

 

[apairofpcs]

Yesterday after I wrote my last post, I called Toshiba's tech. support to find out if they offer a Service Manual for my laptop on their website. They DO NOT. At that point, I decided to be brave and dismantle the unit. After removing all of the screws from the bottom and front of the case, carefully documenting their positions, I was NOT able to totally separate the keyboard assembly from the case. Something near the display was keeping the parts attached. I looked high and low for hardware that I may have overlooked, and couldn't find any. But I was able to see the touchpad assembly, since the keyboard could be somewhat separated from the case near the front. However, the attachment point near the back of the keyboard was not allowing me the full access I needed to work on the touchpad assembly. I'm confident that I'd be able to repair or replace the touchpad assembly if I had better access to it. Accepting defeat as a novice in laptop disassembly, I returned all screws to their proper locations and surprisingly didn't have any screws "left over."

Can anybody take a guess as to why the touchpad stopped working? I should add that the touchpad is not visible in Device Manager, meaning that it's not being detected by the Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit OS. Entering Safe Mode doesn't solve the problem. The Synaptics software installed properly, and is always visible in Control Panel's Programs and Features applet. The mouse pointer is frozen at the center of the display, whether I log off, exit sleep mode, restart or shutdown. What electro-mechanical system is used to translate a swipe of a finger or fingers, into the motion of a pointer? Does anybody make a Service Manual for the unit, besides Toshiba?

Until I get guidance from somebody experienced with laptop repair, I'm going to buy a small wireless / optical mouse since the Dell corded / optical USB mouse I'm using is so burdensome. I was looking for such a mouse about two years ago, but decided that the touchpad was good enough. A touchpad doesn't need a special surface to function, as does an optical mouse.

 

[sdbardwick]

A505 disassembly video. This is the first one I found; there must be others.

 

[ddrueding]

I never pull apart a laptop without a YouTube video, but with one I feel very confident.

 

[apairofpcs]

A505 disassembly video. This is the first one I found; there must be others.

Thank you for giving me the guts to disassemble my laptop, via a very informative YouTube clip. My level of disassembly was much less than the person's laptop in the clip. I was able to get my hands on the panel that houses the touchpad components and look it over. My biggest worry was the disconnection and reconnection of the small flat cable connectors that I came across. There was one connector in particular that was disconnected from a socket. For sure, I thought that this was the problem. I reconnected it and reassembled as much as was necessary to start the pc and test the touchpad. Unfortunately, I still have the problem. In fact, the illuminated bar between the touchpad and keyboard was illuminated when I turned on the pc. I always had it off via a setting in BIOS setup. I restarted and turned off the bar. However, now the light remains on even when I turn it off in BIOS setup. I believe the disconnected connection that I reconnected, should have remained disconnected. By reconnecting it, it may be that I set the bar to stay on no matter what is the setting in BIOS setup. Even when I Load defaults in BIOS setup, the bar stays lit. It turns off when I go to sleep mode.

Back to the touchpad panel. It wasn't clear to me how I could get to the part below the actual touchpad surface, which I believe is a resistance or capacitance based surface that works with the human touch. So as not to do damage to any other part of the laptop, I closed up the unit and once again didn't have any left over screws. My greatest fear all along was that those tiny flat cable connectors would break as I disconnected and reconnected them a few times.

As I stated in one of my posts, I'm using a Dell wireless / optical mouse. Since my work, I notice that wherever I left the mouse pointer, when I unplug the mouse's USB plug, the pointer remains where I left it, but the touchpad and buttons are still unresponsive.

Just in case the problem is software based, I removed all instances of the Synaptics software from the registry and from the SSD. I installed it and uninstalled it many times, while finding a fix. I figure the registry was crowded with too many versions of the software. I installed the most recent drivers for Windows 7, from the Toshiba website. The touchpad is still missing in Device Manager. Doesn't this mean that it's not recognized by the OS? I tried to "Install New Hardware", but the scan performed by the OS found no new devices. I believe that the touchpad is dead to the OS. I'm confident that I reconnected all connectors when I closed up the unit. My visual inspection upon having access to the guts below the touchpad surface, showed that everything was in order except for the disconnected flat cable connector.

The stress of this situation is enough for me to buy a small wireless / optical mouse, surrender to my situation and "call it a day." I'm due for a visit with jtr1962, so I'll ask him to take a look with his trained eyes. Being an electrical engineer, he'll be able to see things that I won't see.

 

[apairofpcs]

I never pull apart a laptop without a YouTube video, but with one I feel very confident.

Both you and sdbardwick taught me a lesson, NOT to depend on a pc's manufacturer for help. YouTube will be my new source of tutorials when I come across a similar situation.

 

[apairofpcs]

Is there a place besides Toshiba's parts depot. from where I can order a part and install it myself? Toshiba's repair "starting price" is $252, return shipping included.

 

[sdbardwick]

Quick note on the touchpad. Toshiba BIOS like to disable internal pointing devices if it detects another pointing device; happens before OS boot, so OS never sees the internal device. You can alter this behavior on some machines in BIOS setup. Make sure you change the BIOS setting or remove the external device when rebooting.

 

[apairofpcs]

Quick note on the touchpad. Toshiba BIOS like to disable internal pointing devices if it detects another pointing device; happens before OS boot, so OS never sees the internal device. You can alter this behavior on some machines in BIOS setup. Make sure you change the BIOS setting or remove the external device when rebooting.

Thank you for the heads up on the capabilities I have in BIOS setup. When the touchpad was working, I was able to go to the Synaptics setup tab in Control Panel's Mouse applet, and check the box disabling the touchpad when a mouse is connected. I have no such capability, since the setup tab is not available in the Mouse applet, even though the Synaptics software is visible in Control Panel's Programs and Features applet. In fact, when I looked at the title of every version of Synaptics software after I installed it, the title bar showed that the device it controls was a "pointing device", not a "touchpad." The title of the installation executable has "touchpad" in it. I think that when my mouse was plugged into a USB port, and I installed the Synaptics software, it looked for hardware, found the mouse and installed the device drivers for the mouse.

Regarding a reference to the touchpad / mouse selection in BIOS setup.....there is none! I've restarted many times from the desktop and from a shutdown with the mouse disconnected, and the touchpad is frozen at the center of the display. I've also toggled the enable / disable button below the bottom of the keyboard, with no success.

Bottom line.....the OS doesn't detect the touchpad. Until it does, I'm dead in the water!

Since I'll surely buy a 2nd mouse, what do you members recommend that's not chock full of functions? My current mouse is the Logitech Performance MX, which I use with my desktop pc. It's worked flawlessly for about four years. I want a smaller mouse with less functions, whose optical scanning device can work on a cotton sheet. I use the laptop in bed.

 

[LunarMist]

Thank you for the heads up on the capabilities I have in BIOS setup. When the touchpad was working, I was able to go to the Synaptics setup tab in Control Panel's Mouse applet, and check the box disabling the touchpad when a mouse is connected. I have no such capability, since the setup tab is not available in the Mouse applet, even though the Synaptics software is visible in Control Panel's Programs and Features applet. In fact, when I looked at the title of every version of Synaptics software after I installed it, the title bar showed that the device it controls was a "pointing device", not a "touchpad." The title of the installation executable has "touchpad" in it. I think that when my mouse was plugged into a USB port, and I installed the Synaptics software, it looked for hardware, found the mouse and installed the device drivers for the mouse.

Regarding a reference to the touchpad / mouse selection in BIOS setup.....there is none! I've restarted many times from the desktop and from a shutdown with the mouse disconnected, and the touchpad is frozen at the center of the display. I've also toggled the enable / disable button below the bottom of the keyboard, with no success.

Bottom line.....the OS doesn't detect the touchpad. Until it does, I'm dead in the water!

Since I'll surely buy a 2nd mouse, what do you members recommend that's not chock full of functions? My current mouse is the Logitech Performance MX, which I use with my desktop pc. It's worked flawlessly for about four years. I want a smaller mouse with less functions, whose optical scanning device can work on a cotton sheet. I use the laptop in bed.

My work laptop touchpad became worthless in less than a year. I have a bunch of the M325 travel mice, which are cheap and have great battery life.

 

[sdbardwick]

Regarding a reference to the touchpad / mouse selection in BIOS setup.....there is none! I've restarted many times from the desktop and from a shutdown with the mouse disconnected, and the touchpad is frozen at the center of the display. I've also toggled the enable / disable button below the bottom of the keyboard, with no success.

Dammit! They keep changing things. My early Core2 Toshiba had it (tripped me up more than once) as well as numerous other earlier Toshiba notebooks/laptops. But I just checked and my last Toshiba (2009? AMD AthlonII-M or something) doesn't. Wonder if that was because they switched to USB from PS/2 or because they got rid of external PS/2 ports.

 

[apairofpcs]

My work laptop touchpad became worthless in less than a year. I have a bunch of the M325 travel mice, which are cheap and have great battery life.

Since I don't have that much confidence that jtr1962 and I will be able to fix the touchpad, today I bought the Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX. Here is the manufacturer's product page..... http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/anywhere-mouse-mx-p?crid=7

The mouse comes with two Duracell AA batteries. Either one or two can be used. They claim that two cells will last four months, with the usual "your mileage will vary" warning. They state "do not use or recharge damaged rechargeable batteries." They don't state that rechargeables can or can't be used. I need advice that the manufacturer has not provided. Can I use AA eneloop batteries?

I have many such cells and use them in almost every device. A pair of AA eneloops delivers 2.4v, while a pair of Duracells delivers 3.0v. Since the voltage of eneloops is less, I can't see any harm in using eneloops. Needless to say, if I use eneloops I will have to remove them from the mouse and charge them. I have three MAHA MH C-9000 four bay NiMH chargers, waiting to go to work!

 

[apairofpcs]

Dammit! They keep changing things. My early Core2 Toshiba had it (tripped me up more than once) as well as numerous other earlier Toshiba notebooks/laptops. But I just checked and my last Toshiba (2009? AMD AthlonII-M or something) doesn't. Wonder if that was because they switched to USB from PS/2 or because they got rid of external PS/2 ports.

Sometimes a BIOS update goes overboard and adds or removes a feature that we found to be useful. In the case of the illumination bar between the touchpad and keyboard, I can't turn it off. It turns off in sleep mode and when restarting. It's pretty bright and is an eyesore. This was the most recent side effect of the touchpad failure.

 

[time]

Eneloops should be fine in a 2-cell configuration (single cell may not provide enough voltage for some low-drain devices, although older 2-cell cameras were problematic as well). However, I don't favor using them in mice because they're too heavy and too much hassle when they need charging at no notice.

Where did you read that the MX mouse can run with just one battery? I've never tried that.

Unfortunately, the Anywhere Mouse MX was the last straw that stopped me buying Logitech products. I had two in a row develop problems with the switches; I remember one would double-click when I single-clicked - which turned out to be catastrophic. The first one was outside warranty and I just binned the second one. Hopefully you will fare better with yours.

Coincidentally, I bought my first Logitech product in a year the other day: a M235 mouse to replace a useless trackpad on a Dell laptop.

For normal use though, I've abandoned cordless mice and use Steel Series gaming mice. Way less strain on my body, which is a bit of an issue given how many waking hours I spend clutching a mouse.

 

[mubs]

How do the Steel Series mice help, time? I could use some advice on that!

 

[apairofpcs]

Eneloops should be fine in a 2-cell configuration (single cell may not provide enough voltage for some low-drain devices, although older 2-cell cameras were problematic as well). However, I don't favor using them in mice, because they're too heavy and too much hassle when they need charging at no notice.

Where did you read that the MX mouse can run with just one battery? I've never tried that.

Unfortunately, the Anywhere Mouse MX was the last straw that stopped me buying Logitech products. I had two in a row develop problems with the switches; I remember one would double-click when I single-clicked - which turned out to be catastrophic. The first one was outside warranty and I just binned the second one. Hopefully you will fare better with yours.

Coincidentally, I bought my first Logitech product in a year the other day: a M235 mouse to replace a useless trackpad on a Dell laptop.

For normal use though, I've abandoned cordless mice and use Steel Series gaming mice. Way less strain on my body, which is a bit of an issue given how many waking hours I spend clutching a mouse.

Since the mouse doesn't come with a charger, I'm going to use two eneloops in it for maximum runtime. As for the additional weight of the 2nd battery, I'll use the mouse for "hand weight training!"

Almost every Logitech mouse I bought eventually failed, with many failing and being replaced within the three year warranty period. But I still like the way they put together their products. Beware, they've reduced their warranty period on some models and where they retained the three year parts warranty they reduced the warranty on labor. This is in addition to having them manufactured in China, where they save a mint on labor costs.

My current wireless / optical Logitech Performance Mouse MX works flawlessly, five years later. Like you, I use it daily for many hours.

I attached a file of a picture I took from the "Getting Started" foldout included in the box. Look at the top of the picture. I'm surprised that their suggestion can't be found at any other source of product information. Logitech shouldn't be so sneaky about the number of batteries that can be used, or the "type" of batteries that can be used. This is the "latest trend" in deceptive advertising, keeping info from the public to avoid potential legal issues.

 

[time]

How do the Steel Series mice help, time? I could use some advice on that!

Smoother and lighter (no batteries of course). Good switches, well-designed 'feet' and precise response.

Not sure whether these are all still available, but the range was divided into 3 sizes with variants:

* Kinzu - small, great for most females. I use one at home so my wife is happy when she uses it.
* Kana - medium, suits my short fingers. I use this one when at my day-job office.
* Sensei - large, suits most males. Despite its awesome features, I found this one slightly tiring because of its size, but my hands are atypical.

They all have great contours, and really, I enjoy using any of them. But when you start to get persistent weakness in your arm from clenching a mouse, it's time to be a bit fussier about sizing etc.

 

[mubs]

Thanks. I'll consider them for my next mouse, because I have the same problem with my right hand from mousing all day long.

 

[Mercutio]

Have you considered a Trackball at all?

 

[apairofpcs]

time,

Were you able to view my attached file, with the reference to the ability to use either one or two batteries in my new mouse?

 

[apairofpcs]

Have you considered a Trackball at all?

NEVER! I like being on the move and in the groove! The new mouse doesn't require that much movement to navigate across a 15.6" diagonal laptop display. I can adjust the pointer's speed and it's acceleration, to optimize it's usage.

 

[ddrueding]

In the constant battle against RSI, I have a mouse, trackball, and touchpad that I switch between. For me it is a trade-off between accuracy/speed and pain.

 

[sedrosken]

I personally run an M310 because it's bigger than the M315's and M325's that litter the house so they fit my hands properly, but aren't covered in buttons I'll never find a use for. Battery life is as superb as any other Logitech wireless mouse of this day and age.

 

[LunarMist]

I personally run an M310 because it's bigger than the M315's and M325's that litter the house so they fit my hands properly, but aren't covered in buttons I'll never find a use for. Battery life is as superb as any other Logitech wireless mouse of this day and age.

I also use an M310, but on the desktop at home. I'd use a smaller mouse in bed. At work I'm often moving from one room to another, so the smaller mouse is more convenient as it is for travel.
I have two M310s and at least five M325s, though at any one time one or two are typically MIA.

 

[apairofpcs]

I failed to mention an incident that occurred when I disassembled the laptop. When I was eye to eye with the panel above which the touchpad assembly was located, I noticed a narrow flexible cable that was disconnected to a socket very close to it. Hoping that reconnecting it would solve my problem, I did so. I reassembled everything and found that the narrow "illumination bar" between the touchpad and the keyboard's spacebar was on. I remember a setting in BIOS setup allowing it to be on or off. I restarted, went to BIOS setup and made sure the setting was off. It was, since I've had it off from the beginning. I exited and found the bar to be on. Just for kicks, I went back to BIOS and set it to on. Whether set to on or off, the illumination bar can't be turned off. It remains on, until I put the pc into sleep mode. I never saw any cable on a pc that wasn't connected to a socket somewhere near to it. Therefore, this makes no sense to me.

Is it possible that the cable was purposely left unattached to a socket by the manufacturer, to allow the user to set it to on or off via BIOS setup? I'm fortunate enough to be visiting jtr1962 this Fri. We can experiment with the flat cable, connected and disconnected. I hope he can get into the guts of the touchpad assembly.

It's worth mentioning that when the touchpad started behaving erratically, I noticed the illumination bar would come on briefly after I applied a little pressure to the touchpad. When I released the pressure, the bar was off. Maybe the problem escalated to a condition where something within the touchpad assembly completed an electrical connection that wasn't supposed to occur, and the connection is permanently on.

In the event that the touchpad is damaged, I'll be fine. I'm right handed, but I'm getting used to the new Logitech mouse in my left hand. The two AA eneloop batteries are working fine. They're being drained slowly, per the battery status indicator in the Logitech Setpoint dialog box.

Does anybody know if Toshiba sells every part to the general public for self-repair, or if they insist that the user send in the pc to their servcie department for an exorbitantly priced repair?

 

[ddrueding]

Toshiba (or any laptop manufacturer) doesn't sell parts to laptops to regular customers. You'll be depending on 3rd party resellers, and may not be able to find the part at all. I have ~75% success finding parts for consumer-grade laptops and 95% for pro-grade stuff.

 

[Mercutio]

Sometimes direct replacements are available. I looked at a ~14 month old HP (too new to have DOA spares, too old to be in warranty) with fully broken hinge assembly. Since there were no parts, I actually got the quote from HP Spares: $331 for a display cable, metal hinge assembly and the plastic hinge clamshell. Plus shipping. The laptop was $279 new