Upgrade Core Duo Dell E1505 to Core2 Duo?

Stereodude

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So I have a few year old Dell E1505 with a 1.83gHz Core Duo (Yonah) and I'm trying to figure out if I can upgrade it to a Mobile Core 2 Duo (Merom). From what I I can tell they are both Socket M. Dell also continued to sell the E1505 well into the Core 2 Duo era, so I think BIOS support is there too.

I'm leaning towards a T7400 since the T7600 is so expensive. (shopping on ebay)

I think it's possible, but I'm not 100% sure. Thoughts?

btw, anyone have a T7400 or T7600 processor lying around they want to get rid of? :D
 

ddrueding

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Are their any BIOS updates on Dells website (or possibly the OEM for the motherboard)? Those typically state what CPUs have been added for compatibility. I would also check the FSB speed, to make sure it is the same (or at least compatible).
 

Stereodude

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FSB is the same. Dell was doing Microcode updates all the way into mid 2007 though the bios updates don't explicitly say what CPUs they support.

I found some mentions on other forums as the T7200, T7400, and T7600 are supported.
 

Stereodude

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Financially I'm not sure this makes any sense. A solid SSD would probably make a much more noticeable improvement to the system. :confused:
 

ddrueding

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It could, depending on use. If it is a normal desktop machine, I think the SSD would be the better choice. Hell, I upgraded the SSD in my underpowered Acer Aspire One and got quite a boost from it.
 

Stereodude

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I think I'll wait for the SSD field to settle a little bit more before jumping in. I think I'll try my luck with short stroking a HD with a very high areal density first.
 

blakerwry

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Typical Tom's article...

As one of the comments mentions. You'd likely achieve the same benefit by simply defraging and consolidating the data at the beginning of the drive. The synthetic benchmarks used don't in any way express the benefits (or lack thereof) of short stroking the drives.

Purposely lowering the LBA count of the drive, as was done in the article, seems pretty silly when you can get the same benefit (forced allocation at the beginning of the drive) by partitioning. Partitioning lets you make use of the full capacity of the drive and lets you purposely store lesser accessed data at the end of the drive - which allows the commonly accessed data to be consolidated even further towards the beginning.
 

Handruin

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Hitachi 450GB SAS = ~$650 (without even factoring in the price of a SAS controller)
Intel 32GB X25-E = $420

Hitachi @ 44GB (short stroked) = $14.77 per/GB
Hitachi @ 20GB (short stroked) = $32.50 per/GB
Intel @ 32GB (normal?) = $13.12 per/GB

Short stroking in Tom's example doesn't seem to make much sense from their proclaimed economic standpoint even if the idea is kind of fun to play around with. I realize they test less expensive hard drives, but using the 450GB SAS in the example (even though it showed some nice benefit) I don't see the cost/value in that situation.
 

P5-133XL

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Don't forget, just because you have short-stroked a drive, does not mean you can't add the unused portion of the drive as a seperate partition.
 

Handruin

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Sure, but once you start doing that you now have contention for where the heads go when both partitions are trying to be accessed.
 

blakerwry

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Don't forget, just because you have short-stroked a drive, does not mean you can't add the unused portion of the drive as a seperate partition.

You're right that the drive could have been partitioned to achieve the same effect... but the way the reviewer "shorted" the drives was by lowering their LBA count in the drive settings. To the controller and OS, the drive now appears smaller and any extra capacity the drive had is now inaccessible.

Handy is also correct that if partitions are used to "short" a drive, both partitions should not be accessed simultaneously in order to avoid contention.

One major flaw in the review's testing is that the tests measured the entire (logical) drive surface. Testing 20GB on the 20GB drive, 44GB on the 44GB drive and 450GB on the 450GB drive. This basically assumes that you will fill your entire drive to 100% capacity - which is unrealistic.

A better comparison to gain insight into performance differences between the different setups would be fill each drive with a set amount of data. Say a 20GB on all three drives. I'm guessing the performance differences would be negligible. Though you might find that 20GB on an actual 20GB drive is very slow and 20GB on a 44GB drive is acceptable, and 20GB on a 450GB is very fast. However, the performance gain is not related to short stroking the drive, but rather in having better data consolidation/using a lower percentage of the drive surface.

The end conclusion that one could then draw is that for best performance, one should not exceed more than x% of a drive's usable capacity. Where x is likely 10%. There is no need to artificially cap the drive at this limit, just realize that performance will degrade past this point. Through further testing one could find that performance suffers considerably at y% of the drive's capacity. From my experience, y would likely be 50%.
 

Mercutio

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Am I correct in believing that the windows defrag program moves the data towards the outside of the drive?

I believe it just moves data to contiguous blocks of free space, which would typically be farther out than inner blocks that are used first. From watching defrags, I know that it also moves data back in as it frees up space on the inner parts of the drive.

Or at least it used to; I don't see a band of unused space on the disk analysis of any machine where I look.
 

mubs

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There was a 3rd party defragger in the DOS days that I loved - Super PC-Kwik which read a text file you created and moved one list of files to the beginning of the drive and another to the end. It was an awesome program and I was saddened when I finally tossed it out. I beileve the guy/company that wrote it is no longer in business.
 

blakerwry

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HDD's write from the outside inwards, as can be illustrated by a sequential transfer rate test's degradation in speed from the beginning to the end of a drive.

The defragger in 2k/XP has two steps. First, consolidate files into contiguous blocks. Second, consolidate data towards the beginning (outer) part of the disk surface. This second part is more or less carried out by the 2k/XP defragger, but not 100%. Though 100% consolidation is not necessarily ideal (as it leaves no room for files to expand), and I believe that the MS defragger stopped this practice of 100% consolidation with win9x.

Mubs, I believe diskeeper automatically performs the optimizations you described. It's a great program, but with the inclusion of a decent defrag util in Windows I haven't had the need to install or recommend such software in a long time.
 

Stereodude

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Well, I scored a T7400 for $90 shipped, so I went ahead with this plan.

Also, FWIW, the short stroked 500GB HD made a huge improvement to the performance of the machine. That may be mostly due to the much higher STR, and not the reduced access times, but either way, it's vastly improved.
 

Stereodude

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What size did the 500GB end up being once you short stroked it?
Well, I just more or less picked 80GB out of the air and made the partition that size. :D

This was driven by the STR graph here and the fact that the old drive was ~80GB and still had plenty of room left on it.
 

mubs

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Mubs, I believe diskeeper automatically performs the optimizations you described. It's a great program, but with the inclusion of a decent defrag util in Windows I haven't had the need to install or recommend such software in a long time.
I tried it a few years ago, and felt it didn't do much better than the built-in windows util. Also, the founder/owner is a scientologist, and I'm allergic to them.
 

Stereodude

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Nice. Noticeable difference?
Ok, so I did my FLAC to mp3 test today and it is quite a bit faster. The Core Duo T2400 converted in the ~23x range (using Foobar). The Core 2 Duo T7400 does it in the ~42x range. For reference my Pentium 4 3.06HT did it around 18x, and my Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.0gHz does it at ~120x.

However, in normal day to day usage so far, I can't say I see any noticeable speed up whereas the short stroked 500GB HD made a very noticeable improvement.
 

Mercutio

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In normal day-to-day usage, CPU speed is practically irrelevant. People just don't do much work that's going to hit the CPU harder than some other component in the system. It's difficult for me to subjectively tell the difference between an E2200 and a Q6600 if all I'm doing is browsing the web and listening to music.
 

Stereodude

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In normal day-to-day usage, CPU speed is practically irrelevant. People just don't do much work that's going to hit the CPU harder than some other component in the system. It's difficult for me to subjectively tell the difference between an E2200 and a Q6600 if all I'm doing is browsing the web and listening to music.
I figured as much before I bought it, but decided it was worth the $90 anyhow for the times I need some mobile number crunching muscle.
 

ddrueding

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Most of the time I'm on a laptop I'm traveling. Most of the time I'm traveling I'm working on photos. I'm hoping for some muscle and an SSD in my next laptop.
 
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