problem WD PATA hard drive in a desktop pc detected in Win 7, but not in Win XP

[apairofpcs]

Hello SF colleagues,

I found a vintage 2/8/2009 Western Digital Caviar Blue, 250 GB, 5,400 RPM PATA hard drive (WD2500AAJB) in an old Dell case, and am having trouble getting it to be detected in Windows XP, although it is detected in Windows 7. Both drives are mounted in a desktop pc. I need advice on how to partition/format it. It has a non-functioning Windows XP OS on the 1st partition and no bootable OS on the 2nd partition. My goal is to eventually make the drive a single partition, with Windows 7 as a non-bootable drive for general data storage.

I did a study of it's impact on my CMOS and each of the 2 OSs on the desktop. Choosing either the slave or cable select jumper setting, the end connector of the EIDE cable attached to the drive and the middle connector unoccupied, here are the findings:
1. After a boot to Win 7, the PATA drive is visible in Windows Explorer. In Device Manager, 4 drives are listed. (1 Samsung SATA, 2 WD SATAs, 1 WD PATA)
2. CMOS shows 4 drives in the Boot tab's, Hard Drives section. But the only drive visible in the Boot Devices list, is the first drive in the Hard Drives section. The other Boot Devices choices are Removable device and ATAPI CD-Rom. When the PATA drive was not connected, the list had the other 2 SATA drives as a choice for a 2nd and 3rd boot device. The fact that I have never seen a Removable device listed in the Boot Devices list when the PATA drive was not connected, means that the PATA drive is considered to be a Removable device. How can this be? A reminder that it's boot partition is corrupt and unusable, so I won't select it as the 1st entry in the Hard Drives section.
3. When restarting, by choosing the primary boot drive with Windows XP from the F8 initiated Boot Selection Menu screen, the rectangular progress bars that scroll from left to right on the Windows XP logo page as it loads, moves normally and then stops for 1 1/2 min. It starts again and proceeds to the XP desktop. In XP, the PATA drive is not visible in Windows Explorer. In Device Manager, the 3 SATA drives above are listed, but not the PATA drive.

One more question. Why isn't the PATA drive detected in CMOS, when the EIDE cable is also connected to a DVD-CD Rom drive? Which device gets the end connector, and what would be the proper jumper setting for the PATA drive?

Thank you.

 

[LunarMist]

Do you have the correct XP drivers for the USB to EIDE bridge or whatever passes for an EIDE controller in boards nowadays?

 

[apairofpcs]

Do you have the correct XP drivers for the USB to EIDE bridge or whatever passes for an EIDE controller in boards nowadays?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I think that Device Manager may have the answer. Where would the info be found there?

Note that I have been using the Rom drive since the desktop was built in Apr. 2009, but it was the only device on the EIDE cable when I attached the hard drive last week. Also, I did have 2 Rom drives on the cable at one time and they both worked. Does this help?

 

[BingBangBop]

WD drives are jumpered differently than all other manufacturers. For every one else you have a Master jumper, a Slave Jumper, and a Cable select jumper. WD uses single drive jumper, master or slave jumper, and cable select jumper. If the WD is the only drive on the cable use the single jumper. If there are two drives on the cable then use the master/slave jumper and its Master/Slave status will be determined by how the the other drive is jumpered. See: WD jumper settings.

Normally, CMOS setup is rather picky (compared to Windows) about the jumper settings. If you get the jumpers wrong, CMOS will tend to take a long time to detect the drives and often there will be missing drives. However, Windows is more flexible in its detection routines and can often detect drives that are mis-jumpered. If a drive is being detected in Windows but not in CMOS then look at the jumper settings to see if they are correct. Specifically, look to see if there both drives are set to be masters or both slaves (both of these settings are no-no's) for in a non-WD world there should be only one master device and one slave device and if there is only one device it should be set as Master. If you are using the WD drive make sure that the WD drive is jumpered properly (Master/Slave if there are two drives on the cable) and Single if it is the only drive on the cable. The position on the cable does not matter unless you are using a cable select cable where pin 28 being grounded determines the Master (typically the inside plug) and pin 28 being open will be the slave (typically being the last plug).

#2 there is no standard when dealing with your boot tab. Different bioses operate differently. Early PC's didn't even have a boot tab. From your description yours seems rather screwy.

Windows XP has a boot.ini file that is created when installed that contains a line that specifies the controller, which HD and the partition to boot from. It looks like this: multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect. There is a line like that for each choice that you can boot from. It does not require CMOS to detect the drive. The device manager should have the PATA drive listed. My first suggestion is that you reinstall your MB's chipset drivers. Next is to check the drive manager (right click My computer and pick manage->disk management. The top section will show the list of all partitions and the bottom should show the drives and their partitions. If you see the missing drive/partition there with its partitions make sure it has a drive letter assigned to it (preferably C



I avoid cable select because it isn't reliable as a standard for it is considered optional standard. Not all drives support it, not all bioses support it and it needs a non-standard cable.

 

[apairofpcs]

WD drives are jumpered differently than all other manufacturers. For every one else you have a Master jumper, a Slave Jumper, and a Cable select jumper. WD uses single drive jumper, master or slave jumper, and cable select jumper. If the WD is the only drive on the cable use the single jumper. If there are two drives on the cable then use the master/slave jumper and its Master/Slave status will be determined by how the the other drive is jumpered. See: WD jumper settings.

Normally, CMOS setup is rather picky (compared to Windows) about the jumper settings. If you get the jumpers wrong, CMOS will tend to take a long time to detect the drives and often there will be missing drives. However, Windows is more flexible in its detection routines and can often detect drives that are mis-jumpered. If a drive is being detected in Windows but not in CMOS then look at the jumper settings to see if they are correct. Specifically, look to see if there both drives are set to be masters or both slaves (both of these settings are no-no's) for in a non-WD world there should be only one master device and one slave device and if there is only one device it should be set as Master. If you are using the WD drive make sure that the WD drive is jumpered properly (Master/Slave if there are two drives on the cable) and Single if it is the only drive on the cable. The position on the cable does not matter unless you are using a cable select cable where pin 28 being grounded determines the Master (typically the inside plug) and pin 28 being open will be the slave (typically being the last plug).

#2 there is no standard when dealing with your boot tab. Different bioses operate differently. Early PC's didn't even have a boot tab. From your description yours seems rather screwy.

Windows XP has a boot.ini file that is created when installed, that contains a line that specifies the controller, which HD and the partition to boot from. It looks like this: multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect. There is a line like that for each choice that you can boot from. It does not require CMOS to detect the drive. The device manager should have the PATA drive listed. My first suggestion is that you reinstall your MB's chipset drivers. Next is to check the drive manager (right click My computer and pick manage->disk management. The top section will show the list of all partitions and the bottom should show the drives and their partitions. If you see the missing drive/partition there with its partitions, make sure it has a drive letter assigned to it (preferably C

I avoid cable select because it isn't reliable as a standard, for it is considered optional standard. Not all drives support it, not all bioses support it and it needs a non-standard cable.

OK, the drive has the following jumper choices...
1. Single or Master.
2. Master with Slave
3, Slave
4. Cable Select

Based on your post, I chose Single or Master. Nothing has changed from my other 2 jumper settings. The CMOS scenario is the same. The 2 partitions cannot be seen in Win XP in Windows Explorer. The drive is not listed in Device Manager. The PATA drive is not listed in XP's Disk Manager, but it is in Win 7's Disk Manager.

Per your last paragraph, Win XP's boot.ini file in the root directory has the following lines.
[boot loader]
timeout=60
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

You wrote of a choice in EIDE cables. Mine is made by ASUS and it "looks like" it has 80 wires. I took a shot of it with my digital camera and zoomed in. I counted 40 wires at the midpoint of the cable. I'm sure that it has 80 wires. How can I tell a cable select cable, from a standard cable?

You know what, BBB. How about you tell me how to make the WD PATA drive a single partition drive, and forget about working with it in it's present form? This is what I want anyway. Will a fresh start make matters better? I'm wasting everybody's time with the drive as is.

 

[BingBangBop]

Cable select cables are ones that pin 28 was cut at the middle plug. You can't really visually see the difference because they are normally cut in the plug. Originally all PATA cables were 40 pin, but to enhance speed they created 80 pin cables with a ground wire in between each data wire but each plug is still 40 pin. The ground helped eliminate crosstalk between the data lines so allowed for higher speeds. Most 80 line cables are cable select cables, but I can't guarantee that so I just avoid the cable select option and jumper them manually.

The issue at this point is how it is wired on the cable. Do you have one or two devices on the cable? If you have, then use Single. If you have two, then which one you use depends for the WD on the other device: Use Master with Slave (If the other device is set to Slave) or Slave (If the other device is jumpered as a Master) depending upon the status of the other device.

Since you will be installing XP from scratch the first thing you will need is some formatted floppies or a thumb drive to store all necessary drivers (uncompressed unzipped). Fill these while you still have a working XP install with an internet connection. Normally you will have a network driver, the MB chipset driver, an audio driver, and potentially others. If you have valid original floppies containing them that is fine but getting updated drives off the internet is normally better. The most important one is your network driver. A fresh install typically doesn't have a working network driver and if you can't access the internet then you won't be able to get any others unless you have them ahead of time. A frustration learned from experiance

Since we are going to delete all the partitions of the drive I would prefer it if there were no other HD drives installed. It would be best to have only a single cable with the CD-ROM on one plug and the WD HD on the other with both jumpered properly. I don't want you to accidentally remove a partition on a different drive.

Also note that before you actually install XP, you will want to re-add those drives. Since Windows uses relative controller, HD, partition numbers to decide what to boot from, adding a drive after you install XP can cause Windows to lose track where to boot from which can be an outright pain to fix. So do the actual XP install after all the drives are installed in their normal configuration

Do what is necessary in CMOS setup so that it will boot to your CD-ROM in preference to all else.

Put your XP CD in your CD-Rom drive and reboot.

It should boot to XP setup which starts out asking you to press F6 if you have any 3rd party drivers (raid drivers and the like) that need to be loaded. You don't have any do you? If so, then you need to press F6 and give setup those driver floppies.

After a few seconds waiting for F6 setup will continue to a welcome to setup screen. Press enter then press F8 to accept the Windows License. Then if Setup detects a previous Windows installation it will offer to repair it but just press Esc to skip it.

You will now see a screen listing all the partitions that Windows sees. This is important: If you see partitions from other drives DO not select those partitions! You can use the up and down arrows to select a partition. Press del to delete the partition and the L to confirm. Repeat till all the partitions are gone on that drive and you only have unpartitioned space.

Now press C to create a new partition. Press enter to select the default of using all the space.

Now to interrupt this process. After you have successfully created a partition Now is the time for you to add back any drives that you pulled at the start. So if you have other drives that need to be added back to your computer, shut down and add them back. When done you will reboot with the XP install disks still in your CD-Rom and repeat the above steps till you get here again. just don't delete any partitions and you should be fine.

Now select a partition to install XP on and press enter. This will be the partition that XP will install upon.

Setup will give you a choice to format the partition. Since this is an old unknown drive choose "Format the partition using the NTFS file system" and press enter followed by waiting for it may take hours to format the drive and check it depending up how fast the drive is, how big the partition, and if it finds any errors. You can use "Format the partition using NTFS file system (Quick)" but only if you trust the drive to work because it does no validity checking of the drive.

When the format is done follow further instructions to finish installing XP.

When XP is finished installing, you will still need to install those drivers that you collected and stored on floppy or thumb drive at the start of this process. Depending upon the driver you may just have to run their setup program, or you may have to use the device manager and install from there.

 

[apairofpcs]

Cable select cables are ones that pin 28 was cut at the middle plug. You can't really visually see the difference because they are normally cut in the plug. Originally all PATA cables were 40 pin, but to enhance speed they created 80 pin cables with a ground wire in between each data wire but each plug is still 40 pin. The ground helped eliminate crosstalk between the data lines so allowed for higher speeds. Most 80 line cables are cable select cables, but I can't guarantee that so I just avoid the cable select option and jumper them manually.

The issue at this point is how it is wired on the cable. Do you have one or two devices on the cable? If you have, then use Single. If you have two, then which one you use depends for the WD on the other device: Use Master with Slave (If the other device is set to Slave) or Slave (If the other device is jumpered as a Master) depending upon the status of the other device.

Since you will be installing XP from scratch the first thing you will need is some formatted floppies or a thumb drive to store all necessary drivers (uncompressed unzipped). Fill these while you still have a working XP install with an internet connection. Normally you will have a network driver, the MB chipset driver, an audio driver, and potentially others. If you have valid original floppies containing them that is fine but getting updated drives off the internet is normally better. The most important one is your network driver. A fresh install typically doesn't have a working network driver and if you can't access the internet then you won't be able to get any others unless you have them ahead of time. A frustration learned from experiance

Since we are going to delete all the partitions of the drive I would prefer it if there were no other HD drives installed. It would be best to have only a single cable with the CD-ROM on one plug and the WD HD on the other with both jumpered properly. I don't want you to accidentally remove a partition on a different drive.

Also note that before you actually install XP, you will want to re-add those drives. Since Windows uses relative controller, HD, partition numbers to decide what to boot from, adding a drive after you install XP can cause Windows to lose track where to boot from which can be an outright pain to fix. So do the actual XP install after all the drives are installed in their normal configuration

Do what is necessary in CMOS setup so that it will boot to your CD-ROM in preference to all else.

Put your XP CD in your CD-Rom drive and reboot.

It should boot to XP setup which starts out asking you to press F6 if you have any 3rd party drivers (raid drivers and the like) that need to be loaded. You don't have any do you? If so, then you need to press F6 and give setup those driver floppies.

After a few seconds waiting for F6 setup will continue to a welcome to setup screen. Press enter then press F8 to accept the Windows License. Then if Setup detects a previous Windows installation it will offer to repair it but just press Esc to skip it.

You will now see a screen listing all the partitions that Windows sees. This is important: If you see partitions from other drives DO not select those partitions! You can use the up and down arrows to select a partition. Press del to delete the partition and the L to confirm. Repeat till all the partitions are gone on that drive and you only have unpartitioned space.

Now press C to create a new partition. Press enter to select the default of using all the space.

Now to interrupt this process. After you have successfully created a partition Now is the time for you to add back any drives that you pulled at the start. So if you have other drives that need to be added back to your computer, shut down and add them back. When done you will reboot with the XP install disks still in your CD-Rom and repeat the above steps till you get here again. just don't delete any partitions and you should be fine.

Now select a partition to install XP on and press enter. This will be the partition that XP will install upon.

Setup will give you a choice to format the partition. Since this is an old unknown drive choose "Format the partition using the NTFS file system" and press enter followed by waiting for it may take hours to format the drive and check it depending up how fast the drive is, how big the partition, and if it finds any errors. You can use "Format the partition using NTFS file system (Quick)" but only if you trust the drive to work because it does no validity checking of the drive.

When the format is done follow further instructions to finish installing XP.

When XP is finished installing, you will still need to install those drivers that you collected and stored on floppy or thumb drive at the start of this process. Depending upon the driver you may just have to run their setup program, or you may have to use the device manager and install from there.

I don't know how to break the news to you, loyal colleague. I never intended to install any OS system on the PATA drive, definitely not the dinosaur Win XP. My only purpose of refurbishing the drive was to make it a data storage device. It would allow me to free up much of the WD SATA drives and move the data from there to the PATA drive. You must have missed this in my first post. Thank you anyway, and know that I have copied and pasted all your detailed instructions into a notepad .txt file and stored that file on both WD SATA drives. I will eventually install another OS on a hard drive and I will use your input when I do.

I was able to transfer all data from the drive to the other 2 WD drives, go to Administrative Tools, Computer Management, Storage, Disk Management, delete the volume and do a Quick Format of the unallocated space on the drive, which was all of it besides the small space for disk management. NTFS was the file system and I checked Enable file and folder compression. Now I have a functioning drive. Regarding the problems I had before. I found another EIDE cable and connected the end connector to the drive. The jumper is still at Single or Master. The drive is visible in Windows Explorer and Device Manager in Win 7. But nothing has changed when I boot to Win XP. The loading is still delayed by 1 1/2 min. The drive is still not visible in Windows Explorer. The drive is still not listed in Device Manager. The drive is still referenced in the same places in CMOS, as before.

In your next to last post, you asked me to reinstall the MB chipset driver. Would that be on the ASUS support CD? A reminder that I once had 2 functioning DVD/CD Rom drives on the original ASUS EIDE cable, and they worked in both OSs. If you question the integrity of the drive, I used HD Tune on it and everything came back good. I also did a chkdsk /R scan, with no problems reported as seen in the Event Viewer. What more can I tell you?

 

[BingBangBop]

For chipset drivers, It may be on the ASUS CD but it would be better to get an updated version from the ASUS download site for your specific MB.

If you can access the drive from disk management, then go there and give its formatted partition a drive letter. It then should then become visible in explorer. That won't help with the boot delay, or finding the drive in the device manager though.

 

[apairofpcs]

For chipset drivers, It may be on the ASUS CD, but it would be better to get an updated version from the ASUS download site for your specific MB.

If you can access the drive from disk management, then go there and give its formatted partition a drive letter. It then should then become visible in explorer. That won't help with the boot delay, or finding the drive in the device manager though.

I worked on the drive in Win 7, where it has always been visible. The drive was assigned the letter "H" by the OS, when I proceeded with the quick format right after I deleted it as a volume. If it wasn't for me right clicking the area of the drive named "unallocated space" out of curiosity and seeing my options, then the drive would exist in Device Manager and in CMOS, but nowhere else. I wouldn't be able to use it, since it would be inaccessible without a drive letter.

If it is in the list of drives in Win 7's Disk Management, then shouldn't it be in the list of drives in Win XP's Disk Management? I will check for this later. I see no reason why it shouldn't. So why is the drive delaying the arrival at the desktop for an extra 1 1/2 min., compared to when it is not connected to the EIDE cable? The first time this happened, I pressed the case's reset button, thinking that it "froze." But the next time i was patient enough to let it continue, in the chance that it was taking a long time to detect the drive. I never had any delay in this process, before I connected the drive. This drive is creating big problems for me, and I know that I am doing everything I have always done with any other drive in this pc, in the past. It's being stubborn!

A reminder that when in Win XP, when the drive is invisible in Windows Explorer, it is not listed in Device Manager. This must mean something about it's inability to be detected in this OS on any level. But why?

 

[apairofpcs]

BBB.

I forgot to inform you that I went into Device Manager to update the driver of every component, finding that the latest drivers were already installed. Does this meet your requirement of "latest chipset driver? Also, does Device Manager in Win 7 have any link to Device Manager in Win XP, meaning does my above procedure have to be repeated in Win XP after it is completed in Win 7? I can see the same components in both OSs, but I can disable a device in one OS and keep it enabled in the other. I am keeping the TV tuner card disabled in Win 7 and enabled in Win XP, because I haven't installed it's software on Win 7.

 

[BingBangBop]

No, Windows XP is a separate OS to Win7. The association between drive letters and the partitions are stored in their respective registries. Since those registries are separate the fact that Win7 had the drive letter as H: means nothing to Windows XP. I've actually gotten a dual boot machine to list the system drive C: to list as S: on one OS while the other one it was C: (and no I don't know how I did it and was not able to undo it till I wiped the OS and re-installed it). I will repeat myself, since you didn't get it before. In XP drive manager, format a partition (which you've done) then right click on the partition and give it a drive letter which will enable explorer to see the formatted partition. No drive letter means explorer will not list the drive, so just give it a drive letter.

Next, is the issue with the drive not being seen in the device manager. Devices are ID'ed in Windows by their drivers. The driver for PATA drives (off the motherboard) is normally your MB's chipset i.e my suggestion to update your chipset driver. If it is the most recent driver, perhaps it is corrupted. The fact that the drive is normal in Win7 but only in XP is it a problem also implies a possible driver issue. Just as a dumb question are you possibly using the Win7 chipset drivers on your XP install?

It is also possible that there is a driver conflict. Each OS will independently configure each driver and store that data in the registry. The fact that Win7 works but XP doesn't could simply be that the OS's have configured the drivers differently causing a driver conflict. I'm talking about interrupts, ports, or memory addresses here. Normally when that happens, you will get some indication in the device manager when that happens rather than a just missing device though.

The extra 1 1/2 minutes during bootup is likely Windows just trying to find the drive. Most of the time that is an issue with Jumpers. You say the WD is jumpered as Single Master which is fine, but you don't say if it is the only thing on the cable which it must be for that to work. The fact that it is normally seen by Win7 but not XP would imply that the jumpers are fine and that it is a driver issue. Regardless, the delay is an obvious indication that XP is having a problem ID'ing the drive. What it doesn't indicate is the source of the problem.

 

[apairofpcs]

No, Windows XP is a separate OS to Win7. The association between drive letters and the partitions are stored in their respective registries. Since those registries are separate the fact that Win7 had the drive letter as H: means nothing to Windows XP. I've actually gotten a dual boot machine to list the system drive C: to list as S: on one OS while the other one it was C: (and no I don't know how I did it and was not able to undo it till I wiped the OS and re-installed it). I will repeat myself, since you didn't get it before. In XP drive manager, format a partition (which you've done) then right click on the partition and give it a drive letter which will enable explorer to see the formatted partition. No drive letter means explorer will not list the drive, so just give it a drive letter.

Next, is the issue with the drive not being seen in the device manager. Devices are ID'ed in Windows by their drivers. The driver for PATA drives (off the motherboard) is normally your MB's chipset i.e my suggestion to update your chipset driver. If it is the most recent driver, perhaps it is corrupted. The fact that the drive is normal in Win7 but only in XP is it a problem also implies a possible driver issue. Just as a dumb question, are you possibly using the Win7 chipset drivers on your XP install?

It is also possible that there is a driver conflict. Each OS will independently configure each driver and store that data in the registry. The fact that Win7 works but XP doesn't could simply be that the OS's have configured the drivers differently causing a driver conflict. I'm talking about interrupts, ports, or memory addresses here. Normally when that happens, you will get some indication in the device manager when that happens rather than a just missing device though.

The extra 1 1/2 minutes during boot-up is likely Windows just trying to find the drive. Most of the time that is an issue with Jumpers. You say the WD is jumpered as Single Master which is fine, but you don't say if it is the only thing on the cable which it must be for that to work. The fact that it is normally seen by Win7 but not XP, would imply that the jumpers are fine and that it is a driver issue. Regardless, the delay is an obvious indication that XP is having a problem ID'ing the drive. What it doesn't indicate is the source of the problem.

I get it. Win XP and Win 7 are totally independent in the way they detect and list a drive. I just checked Win 7, and the drive is visible in Win Explorer, Device Manager and Disk Management. Just wanted to be sure before restarting in Win XP. However, in Win XP the drive is not visible in Win Explorer, Device Manager or Disk Management. I cannot right click on the drive and give it a drive letter, for obvious reasons!

Did I mention that this PATA drive has never been connected to this desktop pc before?

Yes, the drive is alone on the EIDE cable.

No such thing as a dumb question.....
Win XP Professional was installed on the 2 WD SATA drives as a RAID mirror array in April 2009. When I mistakenly interrupted a System Restore in this OS, I lost the RAID function. The 2nd WD SATA drive is used for data storage, even though it's first partition still has the OS on it. Win 7 Ultimate was installed on the Samsung SATA drive in February 2011.

I am not sure if I was doing the right thing with the chipset driver. I found 2 chipset entries in Device Manager's System Devices section. I used Update Driver for each entry. In case I was looking at the wrong items, the ones I saw were Intel (R) 4 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port - 2E21 and Intel (R) 4 Series Chipset Processor to I/O Controller - 2E20. If these are not the ones you suggested, then I don't know what I am supposed to do to fulfill your request!

Regarding this "I'm talking about interrupts, ports, or memory addresses here. Normally when that happens, you will get some indication in the device manager when that happens rather than a just missing device though." I don't know what to do if any of these are creating a driver conflict. For sure, there is no PATA drive in Win XP's Device Manager. You were probably looking for a red or yellow warning icon to the left of the drive, IF it was visible in Device Manager, right?

I'm sure that if I can get the drive to be detected by the Win XP OS, then it will be visible everywhere and the 1 1/2 min. loading delay will disappear.

A friendly reminder that I am not a slouch when it comes to complicated pc matters. But I don't know EVERYTHING, and most of what you have suggested I do to solve my problem is new to me. Be patient with me as I claw my way along the righteous path!

Oh, I just remembered this, which shouldn't mean anything since the drive functions as the others in Win 7. When I deleted the PATA volume, not a smart move if I want get anywhere, I found the drive with difficulty as one with 232 GB of space listed as "unallocated.". It had no volume name or drive letter. When I right clicked on the unallocated section of the drive, the only choice that made sense to me was "format," So I did a quick format. There was no "create partition" entry in the right click menu. The fact that the quick format worked, should mean that all is well. So is all well, even though I didn't actively create a partition on a logical drive that I also created?

What now?

 

[time]

Why isn't the PATA drive detected in CMOS, when the EIDE cable is also connected to a DVD-CD Rom drive?

Yes, the drive is alone on the EIDE cable.

These statements are mutually exclusive. Assuming the first is true, pull the DVD drive and check its jumper settings. As BBB said, if it's set to Master, change the WD drive to Slave; if it's set to Slave, change the WD drive to Master. However, my preference is that the WD should be the Master and the DVD the Slave.

Getting it wrong will have little effect on the DVD drive but will affect detection of the hard drive - at least in XP or earlier.

 

[apairofpcs]

These statements are mutually exclusive. Assuming the first is true, pull the DVD drive and check its jumper settings. As BBB said, if it's set to Master, change the WD drive to Slave; if it's set to Slave, change the WD drive to Master. However, my preference is that the WD should be the Master and the DVD the Slave.

Getting it wrong will have little effect on the DVD drive, but will affect detection of the hard drive - at least in XP or earlier.

My good man. You extracted the above 2 statements from 2 different posts and they represented 2 different times in my quest to solve my problem. When I saw that the PATA drive was not behaving well with it connected to the same EIDE cable as the ROM drive, I disconnected the hardly used ROM drive. This is the reality as we speak. All my tests and posts on the PATA drive have represented findings with ONLY the drive connected to the cable.

Therefore, your advice doesn't apply in my situation. But if, with the help of my colleagues here, the PATA drive works as well in Win XP as in Win 7, then I will reconnect the ROM drive, set the jumper to Slave and move the PATA jumper to Master with Slave. One big happy family!

 

[BingBangBop]

It was my understanding that the XP explorer and device manager couldn't see the drive but Disk manager could. Now I know that none of them can see the drive in XP while Win7 has no problems on the same dual booting machine. That tells me that either the chipset drivers are bad or the XP install is bad and not HW.

Were those drivers specific to XP or Win7 or unspecified? Did you get the drivers from your ASUS support CD or download them from the ASUS web site?

What I would wish is for you to go to the ASUS download site and get the Win XP chipset drivers and install the new ones.

If this does not fix the problem, what I'd do is do an inplace reinstall of XP so as to re-detect all the HW and replace all the drivers for everything.

 

[Bozo]

Is AHCI enabled on the motherboard? If so, XP won't see the drive until the correct AHCI drivers are installed.

 

[time]

Since you changed the cable and ditched the DVD drive, are the drive options in your BIOS setup any different?

I found 2 chipset entries in Device Manager's System Devices section.

Rather than System Devices, look under IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers. There would normally be an entry for the ATA controller, followed by one each for the primary and secondary IDE channels. Your SATA controller on the other hand is probably under the SCSI and RAID controllers section.

Assuming you can identify the correct IDE controller entry, right-click on it and choose Uninstall (or try each channel if that's not an option). After a reboot, Windows should rebuild the entry.

 

[time]

Is AHCI enabled on the motherboard? If so, XP won't see the drive until the correct AHCI drivers are installed.

That would be a great explanation, except isn't AHCI only available with SATA drives?

 

[apairofpcs]

It was my understanding that the XP explorer and device manager couldn't see the drive but Disk manager could. Now I know that none of them can see the drive in XP while Win7 has no problems on the same dual booting machine. That tells me that either the chipset drivers are bad or the XP install is bad and not HW.

Were those drivers specific to XP or Win7 or unspecified? Did you get the drivers from your ASUS support CD or download them from the ASUS web site?

What I would wish is for you to go to the ASUS download site and get the Win XP chipset drivers and install the new ones.

If this does not fix the problem, what I'd do is do an inplace reinstall of XP so as to re-detect all the HW and replace all the drivers for everything.

For the record, JTR1962 and another friend assembled my desktop pc, with me not paying as much attention to them as I should. I regret this lack of enthusiasm. I have the ASUS CD, but found the chipset driver files you seek below at the link. The ones I have may be the latest, but if you think that they are corrupt, how do I uninstall the present ones and install the replacements? Note that the guys installed Win XP on the 2 WD drives. The Win 7 OS on the Samsung drive was done by me.

If the chipset drivers replacement doesn't work, then re-installing Win XP is out of the question due to it's age as an OS. But I don't know what you mean by "inplace install". Is it an install on top of the current OS on the drive? I can live without the PATA drive in Win XP, if it looks like this problem is getting too hot and heavy FOR ALL OF US!

Here is some info on the chipset drivers, as viewed in Device Manager:
Intel (R) 4 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port - 2E21
File Version: 5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp 080413-2111) The similar file in Win 7 has a win7 reference in the code in parenthesis, making me believe that this one is XP specific.
When I click the Details tab, I get this..... PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2E21&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_03\3&11583659&0&08
Driver version: 9.0.0.1009

Intel (R) 4 Series Chipset Processor to I/O Controller - 2E20
File Version: Not available.
When I click the Details tab, I get this..... PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2E20&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_03\3&11583659&0&00
When I click the Driver tab, Driver Details button, I get this message....."No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device."
In both cases, "This device is working properly." Does this mean anything?

More confusion for me. On this ASUS page, you will see the various chipset utilities for my MB. The top choice looks like it applies to my MB, and is a later version than mine..... http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=P5Q SE/R&p=1&os=17 Which one should I use?

Does this info help you help me?

 

[apairofpcs]

Is AHCI enabled on the motherboard? If so, XP won't see the drive until the correct AHCI drivers are installed.

More confusion. How do I find out the answer to your question? Maybe in the CMOS settings?

 

[ddrueding]

More confusion. How do I find out the answer to your question? Maybe in the CMOS settings?

Yup, they will be in either IDE, RAID, or AHCI mode.

 

[sdbardwick]

PATA/IDE drive issues are not fun.
I'm assuming you have the Asus P5Q SE motherboard referenced in post 19.
That board uses a separate Marvell chip for PATA, so the Intel drivers won't help.

The big red flag to me is the extended time it takes to recognize the IDE drive, so I'd start from the bottom up. Here's what I'd do:
1. Verify that the IDE chip is enabled in BIOS. It is located under Advanced tab => Onboard Device Configuration => Marvell IDE Controller
2. Configure the HDD for cable select.
3. Plug blue end of 80 conductor (40 pin) into motherboard.
4. Plug black or (endmost connector if not black) into HDD.
5. Power up and see if POST time is about normal. If not, then double check HDD jumper settings.
5a. If it boots normally, XP might find a driver automatically, and render the following moot.
6. Download and install the Marvell driver. Asus has a Marvell driver listed under the SATA section; I'd try that one first (despite the fact it is listed as SATA) before looking for one elsewhere. If you go looking elsewhere, you will iwant to know what Marvell chip it is; copy down the markings on the physical chip package.

HTH

 

[apairofpcs]

Yup, they will be in either IDE, RAID, or AHCI mode.

Indeed, I chose IDE with the other choices being RAID and AHCI.

 

[apairofpcs]

Since you changed the cable and ditched the DVD drive, are the drive options in your BIOS setup any different?

Rather than System Devices, look under IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers. There would normally be an entry for the ATA controller, followed by one each for the primary and secondary IDE channels. Your SATA controller on the other hand is probably under the SCSI and RAID controllers section.

Assuming you can identify the correct IDE controller entry, right-click on it and choose Uninstall (or try each channel if that's not an option). After a reboot, Windows should rebuild the entry.

I'm looking there right now. I see the following list of items:
Primary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Primary IDE Channel
Device usage: Grayed out area.

Secondary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Secondary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Device usage: Grayed out area.

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Let me guess. The entries that have Device usage: Use this device (enable), are the ones that are in use and the ones I will Uninstall, right?


SCSI and RAID Controllers
Generic Marvel 61xx RAID Controller
Device usage: Use this device (enable).
There is no SATA entry here.

Note: The Marvell controller is Disabled in CMOS, I believe that I was told to disable it, because the RAID mirror array was no longer functional. Logic dictates that it should stay Disabled. Am I being "logical?"

 

[apairofpcs]

I'm looking there right now. I see the following list of items:
Primary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Primary IDE Channel
Device usage: Grayed out area.

Secondary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Secondary IDE Channel
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Device usage: Grayed out area.

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Device usage: Use this device (enable).

Let me guess. The entries that have Device usage: Use this device (enable), are the ones that are in use and the ones I will Uninstall, right?


SCSI and RAID Controllers
Generic Marvel 61xx RAID Controller
Device usage: Use this device (enable).
There is no SATA entry here.

Note: The Marvell controller is Disabled in CMOS, I believe that I was told to disable it, because the RAID mirror array was no longer functional. Logic dictates that it should stay Disabled. Am I being "logical?"

Oops, I made a mistake. The Marvell controller is Enabled. I was confusing it with the Express Gate, under the CMOS's Tools pulldown. This is Disabled. What does this do?

 

[apairofpcs]

PATA/IDE drive issues are not fun.
I'm assuming you have the Asus P5Q SE motherboard referenced in post 19.
That board uses a separate Marvell chip for PATA, so the Intel drivers won't help.

The big red flag to me is the extended time it takes to recognize the IDE drive, so I'd start from the bottom up. Here's what I'd do:
1. Verify that the IDE chip is enabled in BIOS. It is located under Advanced tab => Onboard Device Configuration => Marvell IDE Controller
2. Configure the HDD for cable select.
3. Plug blue end of 80 conductor (40 pin) into motherboard.
4. Plug black or (endmost connector if not black) into HDD.
5. Power up and see if POST time is about normal. If not, then double check HDD jumper settings.
5a. If it boots normally, XP might find a driver automatically, and render the following moot.
6. Download and install the Marvell driver. ASUS has a Marvell driver listed under the SATA section; I'd try that one first (despite the fact it is listed as SATA) before looking for one elsewhere. If you go looking elsewhere, you will want to know what Marvell chip it is; copy down the markings on the physical chip package.

HTH

Who sez they're not fun? Not exactly my MB. It's the P5Q SE/R.

1. Marvell controller is Enabled.
2. I had it at cable select in the beginning of my ordeal. That was when I discovered the 1 1/2 min. restart delay.
3. Had blue end of EIDE cable in MB all along.
4. Had black "end connector" of EIDE cable in HDD all along.
5. The 1 1/2 min. delay in loading Win XP existed when following the above steps. Jumper setting "triple checked" to be cable select, that is when I was using cable select. Now using Single or Master jumper
5a. Doesn't boot properly. No driver found, unless it is done in the background without notification.
6. I will have to get back to you with the ASUS website download/install of the Marvell. I will do this later. I don't have any packaging for the Marvel controller, but I think it is listed during the POST. I will hit the Pause key to stop it in it's tracks and write down it's number.

I just checked Device Manager. I already have the Marvell V1.2.0.68 controller installed that is seen on the ASUS website.

 

[BingBangBop]

All those different downloads for the chipset drivers are different versions. All you do is get the most recent one. If you can, install the whole thing using its install rather than replacing each driver individually.

An in-place re-install is also called an upgrade install re-installs Windows XP over top of the current install. It shouldn't affect any installed applications or the data but it does replace all the Windows files and re-detect all HW and replace all drivers to their original state. Like always back everything up first just in case it goes south.

After doing an in-place reinstall, you should then update all ASUS supplied drivers, and do repeated Windows updates to get Windows up to the maximum service pack and collect all the otherwise recommended updates. Those updates can take quite a while of downloading. I personally get everything but the Media center updates because the early ones don't have the DRM crap that Microsoft added later.

 

[BingBangBop]

Instructions on doing an in-place or repair install of XP

 

[time]

That board uses a separate Marvell chip for PATA, so the Intel drivers won't help.

Good pickup, at least someone took the time to check (I didn't ).

Your motherboard uses something of a bastard child from the Marvell range: 88SE6102 PATA controller. There is no specific driver available for this chip; you have to use a generic driver for a number of Marvell chips, most of which are primarily SATA controllers with RAID capability. Hence the description in Device Manager, even though your particular Marvell chip supports neither RAID nor SATA.

There is no point in fiddling with the storage settings in the BIOS; they all refer to the onboard Intel controllers that are pure SATA. The only parameter that affects your PATA port is whether the Marvel controller is enabled or not. You've already confirmed that it is.

It might still be worth trying to uninstall the Marvell controller from Device Manager so as to reinitialize it as I described. On top of that, I found a more recent driver than the one listed on the Asus site. That would definitely be worth trying.

The bad news is that I noticed other people had reported similar problems to you even under Windows 7.

 

[apairofpcs]

Good pickup, at least someone took the time to check (I didn't ).

Your motherboard uses something of a bastard child from the Marvell range: 88SE6102 PATA controller. There is no specific driver available for this chip; you have to use a generic driver for a number of Marvell chips, most of which are primarily SATA controllers with RAID capability. Hence the description in Device Manager, even though your particular Marvell chip supports neither RAID nor SATA.

There is no point in fiddling with the storage settings in the BIOS; they all refer to the onboard Intel controllers that are pure SATA. The only parameter that affects your PATA port is whether the Marvel controller is enabled or not. You've already confirmed that it is.

It might still be worth trying to uninstall the Marvell controller from Device Manager so as to reinitialize it as I described. On top of that, I found a more recent driver than the one listed on the Asus site. That would definitely be worth trying.

The bad news is that I noticed other people had reported similar problems to you, even under Windows 7.

Time.....you dunn did it!

Your link to the latest Generic Marvell controller driver worked like a charm. I uninstalled the existing version, restarted and installed the drivers with your self-extracting exe file. I restarted again to make sure it took hold. The Generic Marvell 61xx RAID Controller is listed in Device Manager's SCSI and RAID Controllers section. The Marvell Virtual Device is listed in Device Manager's System devices section.

The restart to Win XP moves along as it should, without the 1 1/2 min. delay. The drive is visible in Windows Explorer. It's listed in Device Manager's Disk Drives section. It's listed in Disk Management.

Should I use the same procedure in Win 7 as I did on Win XP?


BingBangBop,

I thank you for all your help in this matter. As before, I saved your link to the Microsoft Support website titled "How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP." I will use the steps, if I should get into another pickle with XP.

 

[BingBangBop]

Should I use the same procedure in Win 7 as I did on Win XP?

Why? you don't have an issue with your Win7 install. The general repair rule #1: Don't fix that which isn't broken.

 

[apairofpcs]

Why? you don't have an issue with your Win7 install. The general repair rule #1: Don't fix that which isn't broken.

You are as right as 2 rabbits. No wise guy actions from me. You must have taken your quote from Confucius!

 

[apairofpcs]

My PATA drive is doing everything the other 3 drives are doing in my desktop pc, so I'm going to close out this thread with thanks to all of you who have suggested "possible" solutions, and a special thanks to time "who nailed it." Let all PATA and SATA coexist in peace!