what is the point?
- Thread starter honold
- Start date
honold said:
I know this isn't an answer to your question, but why do you want everyone to go back to SR so bad? You've put a considerable amount of time and effort in this forum and it wasn't until recently where you've had several major debates that this seems to bother you.
I'm not taking either side in those events, but is this a question of being ganged up on, or do you truly believe SR is the place we all should be? On the flip side, why not keep it here? I'm open to new ideas and I think everyone else is too. You mentioned something about articles, which I'm not very clear on, did you have something to publish?
Should we put a solid plan together for creating some nice articles. I saw Mercutio wrote something in another thread and I think LiamC mention having some material. If you have something also, maybe we could jump start this place with some solid work?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Actually I thought I'd do a write-up on HTPCs next.
another thing, i never looked for a forum before, i just ran into sr and stayed there. i miss what i once had in terms of technical content, so i'm actually seeking it out now for the first time.
i also don't want to imply that i don't value the non-computing talk (movies/etc) - i think it's a great side-effect.
i also don't want to imply that i don't value the non-computing talk (movies/etc) - i think it's a great side-effect.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Odd thing, that. I think the fact that there's no advertising on this site is a great positive.
Why it is that you don't feel like a member of this community is a matter of some interest to me. Nothing has been done to exclude you from participating on whatever level you feel comfortable. If you wish to be "outside" somehow, that's your business. I'd miss your generally contrarian tone if you left, so perhaps you're more a part of things here than you realize.
Why it is that you don't feel like a member of this community is a matter of some interest to me. Nothing has been done to exclude you from participating on whatever level you feel comfortable. If you wish to be "outside" somehow, that's your business. I'd miss your generally contrarian tone if you left, so perhaps you're more a part of things here than you realize.
i think there's a clear separation between the founders and the users, and i don't see how it would change. it doesn't mean that i haven't enjoyed threads or interactions, just that i have relationships with individuals here, not the site itself. the only community i see is the founding one, and well, it's hard to be a founder after something's been founded 
Prof.Wizard
Wannabe Storage Freak
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
- Messages
- 1,460
I'll prolly continue to drift in and out between the two communities, responding to the most stimulating threads. No place completely satisfies me, but this is the only way not to lose the advantages of either.
I'll put all my effort to be a regular contributer to both but SR is diffucult to deal with and SF sometimes lacks the number of new threads I'm searching...
I'll put all my effort to be a regular contributer to both but SR is diffucult to deal with and SF sometimes lacks the number of new threads I'm searching...
Prof.Wizard
Wannabe Storage Freak
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
- Messages
- 1,460
Now it's our moment. Hit SR's frontpage and vote YES...Eugene in SR said:
Please!
Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
Are the polls always so hidden?honold said:
fool
Learning Storage Performance
Very interesting link Will.
Three things I want to say,
First off, I should have phrased that thing about referencing SF better. What I should have said was something along the lines of, if for example there’s a question about the effect memory has on a systems performance, mention the thread Honold started to which CityK (and others, who I hope aren’t offended by my poor memory) contributed so much. As it was, what I said was pretty despicable.
Secondly, and with particular reference to Wills link, If SF is to expand and retain the quality which makes it somewhere special shouldn’t you (I would say we, but there’s no way I should be included) form some kind of “old hats” council?
Thirdly, I think that the articles need to be brought out of the threads and placed somewhere they won’t disappear.
I guess SR’s polls are always that hidden, since when I went to vote in this one there were a whole bunch of others whose existence I was ignorant of.
Three things I want to say,
First off, I should have phrased that thing about referencing SF better. What I should have said was something along the lines of, if for example there’s a question about the effect memory has on a systems performance, mention the thread Honold started to which CityK (and others, who I hope aren’t offended by my poor memory) contributed so much. As it was, what I said was pretty despicable.
Secondly, and with particular reference to Wills link, If SF is to expand and retain the quality which makes it somewhere special shouldn’t you (I would say we, but there’s no way I should be included) form some kind of “old hats” council?
Thirdly, I think that the articles need to be brought out of the threads and placed somewhere they won’t disappear.
I guess SR’s polls are always that hidden, since when I went to vote in this one there were a whole bunch of others whose existence I was ignorant of.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I completely missed this thread since I haven't looked in the feedback section for a long time so I hope my thoughts aren't too untimely(I know PW and honold are both gone). I'm a regular visitor to both sites for different reasons. I don't feel obligated to post on either unless I feel I have something worthwhile to add. Two main concerns have been raised. Number one, has SR been diluted due to many old-timers posting mainly, and sometimes exclusively, on SF? Number two, has SF become more of an old boy's club than a place where genuine debate and exchange of ideas can take place?
The tone of the original SR forums was set by a core group of regulars, most of whom had 1000 posts or more. They would answer newbies questions, instruct them on proper forum etiquette, welcome any contributions they had. In short, they fulfilled a function that for whatever reason Eugene and Davin are unable/unwilling to do. Many posts by these regular were worthy of publication in my opinion but a fresh influx of new members always kept things interesting as well. As such, I'll concur that it was but a small price to ask that the database be carefully protected. This was little to ask in return for the traffic that these regulars helped bring to SR. Sadly, when the database was lost many regulars felt betrayed, and in my opinion rightfully so. This much is a matter of record. Adding to that feeling of betrayal was SR's imminent closing. At that point many regulars ceased being a part of SR at all, while others remained but contributed less. This loss brought close to an effective end to the site's self-moderation. This wouldn't have been a problem if SR had not attracted many new members but due to it's high name recognition the membership continued to increase. If there is anything to blame for whatever problems SR's forums now have I submit that it is more due to the quality(or rather lack of it) of a large percentage of the newer members than to the departure of the old guard(and I hope I don't sound elitist by saying this). I'm not sure even if everybody here posted exclusively on SR that we would be able to get things under control. What's happening on SR is a microcosm of what I've seen happening all over the Internet. As something becomes more popular, and attracts more users, sooner or later it falls to the level of the lowest common denominator. The Internet has grown enormously in even the three years that I've been on it. The crowd that SR is attracting is the same crowd many sites are attracting. The only other site that I post on besides SR and SF, train-sim.com, has had the same problem to an even greater extent than SR. Flames, fights, cursing, excessive moderation, tons of newbie questions, and the like have been the norm over there for quite some time. As such I've been inclined to visit the site less and less. Many regulars who contributed much when the site first started have done the same. Moderation has helped to an extent but I dislike the overzealous moderation there. I posted rather lengthy technical material in a few threads only to come back and see the entire thread deleted because two other posters started a flame war. Of course, by habit I immediately save anything I might need in the future(including threads over here) so the material wasn't gone but it wasn't on the site any more for those who might have been helped by it.
On to the second question. Has SF become just a old boy's club? I don't think so. I feel free to post not only when I agree but also when I disagree vehemently. I'm never averse to stating my opinion and letting the chips fall where they may. I'll do this on SR amongst almost complete strangers and I'll do it here amongst people I know very well. However, I feel little need to restate opinions of mine over here which the regular membership is well aware of. For example, I'm not going to come into the car thread honold mentioned and start saying we should ban SUVs or start using fuel cells immediately. What would be the point? It would disrupt a perfectly good thread to regurgitate opinions I've stated many times in threads where it was more on topic. To someone just stumbling upon this site such relative lack of conflict might make this place seem like an old boy's club but nothing could be further from the truth. If it's fairly fresh material that hasn't been covered before, and I disagree with someone, they can count on hearing from me. By the same token my opinions can be modified if a good enough case is made, and indeed I consider this aspect of discussion very important. The same can be said for most of the regulars here but not those on some other sites I've been to. I like debating but not with completely close-minded people who don't hear a word I say. To be sure some of the regulars are dogmatic about certain things, but not about everything. Does the conversation around here sometimes get stale? Perhaps, but such is the price for having a high signal to noise ratio. If I want to discuss something intelligently I come here. If I want to talk to new people or chat lightly about new topics I go to SR. I have little doubt that SF will experience some of the same problems SR is having if it were to grow as large. Perhaps the moderation policy that exists here was set up with that thought.
The tone of the original SR forums was set by a core group of regulars, most of whom had 1000 posts or more. They would answer newbies questions, instruct them on proper forum etiquette, welcome any contributions they had. In short, they fulfilled a function that for whatever reason Eugene and Davin are unable/unwilling to do. Many posts by these regular were worthy of publication in my opinion but a fresh influx of new members always kept things interesting as well. As such, I'll concur that it was but a small price to ask that the database be carefully protected. This was little to ask in return for the traffic that these regulars helped bring to SR. Sadly, when the database was lost many regulars felt betrayed, and in my opinion rightfully so. This much is a matter of record. Adding to that feeling of betrayal was SR's imminent closing. At that point many regulars ceased being a part of SR at all, while others remained but contributed less. This loss brought close to an effective end to the site's self-moderation. This wouldn't have been a problem if SR had not attracted many new members but due to it's high name recognition the membership continued to increase. If there is anything to blame for whatever problems SR's forums now have I submit that it is more due to the quality(or rather lack of it) of a large percentage of the newer members than to the departure of the old guard(and I hope I don't sound elitist by saying this). I'm not sure even if everybody here posted exclusively on SR that we would be able to get things under control. What's happening on SR is a microcosm of what I've seen happening all over the Internet. As something becomes more popular, and attracts more users, sooner or later it falls to the level of the lowest common denominator. The Internet has grown enormously in even the three years that I've been on it. The crowd that SR is attracting is the same crowd many sites are attracting. The only other site that I post on besides SR and SF, train-sim.com, has had the same problem to an even greater extent than SR. Flames, fights, cursing, excessive moderation, tons of newbie questions, and the like have been the norm over there for quite some time. As such I've been inclined to visit the site less and less. Many regulars who contributed much when the site first started have done the same. Moderation has helped to an extent but I dislike the overzealous moderation there. I posted rather lengthy technical material in a few threads only to come back and see the entire thread deleted because two other posters started a flame war. Of course, by habit I immediately save anything I might need in the future(including threads over here) so the material wasn't gone but it wasn't on the site any more for those who might have been helped by it.
On to the second question. Has SF become just a old boy's club? I don't think so. I feel free to post not only when I agree but also when I disagree vehemently. I'm never averse to stating my opinion and letting the chips fall where they may. I'll do this on SR amongst almost complete strangers and I'll do it here amongst people I know very well. However, I feel little need to restate opinions of mine over here which the regular membership is well aware of. For example, I'm not going to come into the car thread honold mentioned and start saying we should ban SUVs or start using fuel cells immediately. What would be the point? It would disrupt a perfectly good thread to regurgitate opinions I've stated many times in threads where it was more on topic. To someone just stumbling upon this site such relative lack of conflict might make this place seem like an old boy's club but nothing could be further from the truth. If it's fairly fresh material that hasn't been covered before, and I disagree with someone, they can count on hearing from me.
By the same token my opinions can be modified if a good enough case is made, and indeed I consider this aspect of discussion very important. The same can be said for most of the regulars here but not those on some other sites I've been to. I like debating but not with completely close-minded people who don't hear a word I say. To be sure some of the regulars are dogmatic about certain things, but not about everything. Does the conversation around here sometimes get stale? Perhaps, but such is the price for having a high signal to noise ratio. If I want to discuss something intelligently I come here. If I want to talk to new people or chat lightly about new topics I go to SR. I have little doubt that SF will experience some of the same problems SR is having if it were to grow as large. Perhaps the moderation policy that exists here was set up with that thought.That was very well said jtr. Even though I couldn't express it nearly as nice, I feel the same as what you wrote.
I think the difference here is that you are passionate about the things you believe in, and because of this you dig for that greater knowledge to know more about those important topics. Because of this, you are ready and armed to defend your stance. That right there is proof of knowledge equaling power. Power in a sense that you can constructively argue your topic without resorting to abusive comments eventually leading you to disband a site because you won't get your way.
I think the difference here is that you are passionate about the things you believe in, and because of this you dig for that greater knowledge to know more about those important topics. Because of this, you are ready and armed to defend your stance. That right there is proof of knowledge equaling power. Power in a sense that you can constructively argue your topic without resorting to abusive comments eventually leading you to disband a site because you won't get your way.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Exactly the point, Doug. I believe in winning arguments based of facts. I also think there are times when if others present convincing evidence or facts you weren't aware of you need to be flexible enough to modify your beliefs. Sadly, I see this facet of online discussion deteriorating in many places. Too many people take it personally if you contradict what they say. I've been on forums where one person will say something totally ridiculous, or will present their opinion as fact. The minute others come in and prove them wrong the flame wars start. It is this type of chldish behavoir that turns me off, and drives me away from a place. To be sure, SR in its present state is still better than many forums I've seen but can be improved substantially. That doesn't mean you still won't get the occasional troll. I'm also aware that moderation can help but in the end there's a fine line between censorship and creating a forum for open discussion. Too little moderation and fights will break out but everybody will be able to express their opinion. Too much moderation and you'll eventually end up with people only sticking to safe but boring topics for fear of getting censored.