Which system to sell?

[bahngeist]

Which system would you keep; and which would you sell?

a. Abit TH7II RAID w/P4 2.4 Northwood and 768MB RDRAM

b. FIC AU13 (NForce2) w/Barton 2500+ and 512MB PC2700 DDR


I will be switching other components out so they don't enter the mix; and having RAID is a non-issue for me.

 

[blakerwry]

RDRAM makes me shudder.... I'm guessing the AMD machine will have more life in it, both from a RAM standpoint and a CPU standpoint...

If you plan on keeping the "keeper" for awhile and upgrading it later on, then I'd keep the AMD... if you plan to get rid of the "keeper" in a year OR never upgrade it then I'd think about selling the AMD just because I would assume the better upgrade potential would bring more money.

 

[Howell]

My thoughts to a T.

 

[Fushigi]

Can't speak for the Abit, but I'm running that FIC board with an XP1700 @ 2800. It's very stable running F@H 24x7. Nice bargain board. I'd have no problems keeping it for the long haul .. and in fact I plan on keeping mine for some time to come.

 

[Mercutio]

Why do you need to sell one, bahngeist?

The P4 probably has a higher resale value. That Intel name and the extra RAM are what people would look at.

 

[blakerwry]

informed people or Dell people?

 

[mubs]

Now, now, Blake, don't be mean. I've built all my own systems, and personal systems for my brother, but for his medical office, we've bought Dell on my recommendation. Not because I can't build good machines, but because he can get the Dell with a 4-year on-site warranty, and his life will go on if I get hit by a bus or decide to move to Mt. Everest and grow a long beard. And yes, he's a technophobe, so it gives him a lot of peace of mind.

 

[Buck]

Dell was just knocked down a notch on my list of recommendations. I made a housecall on a Dell system (non-clam shell case). The system would not power on, and after checking the AC cable, we were left with either the power supply or motherboard. Neither of those items are standard, and therefore were out of by realm of support. Why can't dell just use a standard ATX power supply with a standard motherboard power connector? My customer was not happy with Dell after I showed them the differences and that they would need to contact Dell for support.

On an unrelated note, I've been working with a customer's Sony Vaio. Nice little machine, heavy as lead, with plenty of audio and video features. To bad he was conned into buying this overpriced machine as all he does with it is create invoices and use his email.

 

[blakerwry]

Not trying to dell-bash, I'm refering to the vomit box makers in general. They advertise a really fast CPU, but what they don't mention is that they usually pair that CPU with a motherboard that can't handle anything faster.

ex: this abit board is maxed out CPU wise.. or possibly could take a 2.6GHZ p4 CPU.

They're also pretty good at supplying a CPU that's way more than what most of their customers need, but then shorting them on RAM (giving most of their customers half the RAM that they would need in order to boot and then load a couple apps)... of course, Dell is quick to sell more memory if you want it (at 3 times the market price).

 

[bahngeist]

Why do you need to sell one, bahngeist?

The P4 probably has a higher resale value. That Intel name and the extra RAM are what people would look at.

A while back I built the P4 system for what is now my ex, and oriented it to her music editing work. When we divorced I was loath to let her have something that I put together with a fair bit of care (her multiple, simultaneous cases of extended infidelity didn't particularly make me feel generous).

Anyway, I don't have much use for two PCs with comparable performance, and would instead rather sell one and pick-up a laptop.

Everyone's responses are appreciated, and point to the dilemma I've been having in making a choice. To a general buyer the P4 has greater brand recognition; but to someone that is relatively informed, the AMD system would be recognized as being somewhat upgradeable.

One question though as to deciding on the keeper: both CPUs are relatively comparable, apart from the P4 having only 8K L1 memory compared to the Barton's 128K L1 memory. Does anyone know if this presents a real performance difference, given the different archictectures of the CPUs in question?

 

[blakerwry]

I dont think you'll see much performance difference either way.

 

[Mercutio]

The 2.4GHz-equivalent area is more or less where AMD and Intel actually run together in terms of performance (with Intel breaking away over 2.8 or so).

 

[CougTek]

Overall, I would say that it depends on the Pentium 4 revision you have. Sure, some application always run faster on P4 and others on Athlon due to software optimisation (or lack of). But the general trend is that Barton CPU are faster than Pentium 4 with a 400MHz FSB, a tad faster but almost equal to the 533MHz FSB P4 and a little behind the P4C with the 800MHz FSB.

RAM bandwidth affects more performances than the amount of L1 cache if you're looking for a differenciating factor between both of these (very different) architectures.

I would keep the Athlon and sell the Pentium 4. The nForce 2 + Barton is the pinnacle of combos for AMD's 32bit CPUs, while the i850 chipset and 533MHz P4 are a little behind on Intel's side.

 

[bahngeist]

The 2.4GHz-equivalent area is more or less where AMD and Intel actually run together in terms of performance (with Intel breaking away over 2.8 or so).

Thanks for the confirmation (you too blakewry), that's what I figured.

Would $1250 U.S. be a fair selling price for the following:


FIC AU13 w/512MB OCZ PC2700 DDR
Barton 2500+ w/Zalman flower h/s
XP Home
Radeon 9600 Pro (may include Zalman passive h/s if it fits)
Lian Li PC-60 aluminum case (all fans switched to Panaflos)
PC Power & Cooling 400W Silencer PS
Sony 52X CD (IDE)
Adaptec 19160
Pioneer DVD
Yamaha CD-RW
Atlas 10K111 18.4 (boot)
Mylex AcceleRAID 170
(2) Seagate 18XL 18.4G + 1 Maxtor AtlasV 18.3G in RAID5
(will be throwing in an unused AtlasV, same as above)
May include an Audigy1 Platinum (anyone see any point though?)

All cables are round; most are custom lengths to reduce clutter.

 

[Mercutio]

You might do better to switch the SCSI drives for something largish and IDE. The person buying the machine will almost certainly not appreciate the performance and will probably dislike the noise.

If you're selling it locally, absolutely don't try to price your computer higher than what someone can get from Dell or the local Office/Electronics Superstore. The Lian-Li case and Zalman fans are certainly nice premium products but, again, that won't mean much to Joe Sixpack.

BTW, it's good to see you around again, Bahngeist.

 

[bahngeist]

... I would keep the Athlon and sell the Pentium 4. The nForce 2 + Barton is the pinnacle of combos for AMD's 32bit CPUs, while the i850 chipset and 533MHz P4 are a little behind on Intel's side.

I missed your response while editing my last post. A large part of what you are saying is what has made deciding such a dilemma.

But I also hope to use this sale as an opportunity to divest myself of the RAID array (it's been sitting around unused for 1+ year), and it would be hard to justify installing a SCSI RAID array on the TH7II-RAID MB. If the Barton combo was 'hands down' superior to the P4 combo, I would have found another way to sell the RAID array.

And you are probably right about the value of the Barton/NForce2 combo: coupled with a Radeon 9700 Pro, this combo runs Halo silky smooth at 1280 x 1024 (this game has been causing other people w/fairly powerful systems 'stuttering' problems. I had the same problem running the game on the P4 system; but it presently has the Radeon 9600, and the reduced pipelines in the latter 'may' be the actual bottleneck).

 

[timwhit]

If I were you I would part out the system and sell it on eBay all separately. You will get a lot more money that way. It is more work though.

 

[bahngeist]

You might do better to switch the SCSI drives for something largish and IDE. The person buying the machine will almost certainly not appreciate the performance and will probably dislike the noise ...

... BTW, it's good to see you around again, Bahngeist.

Thanks for the welcome back

I was originally going to leave the two 10KIIIs already in the system as is, and was considering acquiring and adding a largish IDE drive (for archiving) to make the system more attractive. However, there is always the chance I won't be able to sell the system, and I don't want to risk holding yet another drive that is surplus to my needs.

I actually have considered everything that you suggested -- and do appreciate your pointing out those potential concerns. The market here in Juneau isn't that large (30K souls), and it is quite isolated to boot. Thanks to the latter there is a solid gaming / media editing community here, so chance exists that someone will recognize and appreciate the system's virtues -- though I may just have to wait awhile for someone's cabin fever to kick in

 

[blakerwry]

i was thinking that piecing up the system might get you more money as well.

Maybe sell the system in a usable state, but take out the RIAD card and drives and sell them seperately...

It's hard to say if that is a fair price... I wouldn't pay that much simply because I'm not interested in RAID 5 or even very interested in the SCSI drives. The rest would be pretty cool through.

 

[bahngeist]

Timwhit:

A local ma&pa shop owner suggested ebay also -- for obvious reasons none of the local shops are willing to take the system on consignment. They think my chances of finding a buyer are good for the reasons mentioned above, but I would have to make liberal use of the bulletin boards that are proliferate throughout Juneau (which is spread out over 14 miles of coastline). I would hate to tear the system apart, but if e-bay turns out to be the only way ...

 

[bahngeist]

Blakerwry:

What is interesting about this dialogue is that it is leading me to something I was well aware of even before starting this thread: that I may well have to outlay funds to acquire a couple of IDE opticals and a large-capacity IDE HD if I wanted to unload the system locally. And I would likely have to mark-it-down to what a comparable Dell, etc. would go for

For the time being (until Feb., can't linger too long in today's market) I will try selling the AMD-based system as is, and mention to potential buyers that the SCSI RAID option exists. If I need to modify to suit, well that was always an option -- within reason. And if neither option flies, well, I also have a bunch of other spare components that would make good e-bay candidates also. In the latter event I would likely keep the AMD-based system, strip out the P4 system (has two 15.3 drives), consolidate the best into the former, and keep the case and PS around for a future build.

I imagine all of us have at times gone through a similar process -- mulling around an issue while knowing what one will likely have to accept and go with. Having this confirmed through the opinions of those one respects is much appreciated. Thank you all for the feedback!

 

[blakerwry]

in that case, dont bother buying anything for the computer you are selling. just strip it out.. The largest part(s) I would sell together are the mobo/CPU as a combo and maybe the RAID card and drives together.

 

[timwhit]

A while back I built the P4 system for what is now my ex, and oriented it to her music editing work. When we divorced I was loath to let her have something that I put together with a fair bit of care (her multiple, simultaneous cases of extended infidelity didn't particularly make me feel generous).

Oh by the way, sorry to hear about this. Can't be a very nice thing to find out. I think I would flip if the same thing happened to me...

 

[Mercutio]

It can get worse than that, of course...

 

[bahngeist]

A while back I built the P4 system for what is now my ex, and oriented it to her music editing work. When we divorced I was loath to let her have something that I put together with a fair bit of care (her multiple, simultaneous cases of extended infidelity didn't particularly make me feel generous).

Oh by the way, sorry to hear about this. Can't be a very nice thing to find out. I think I would flip if the same thing happened to me...

Thanks for the thought Timwhit.

This is the primary reason why I haven't posted much to the forum over the past 1+ year. And also the reason why I relocated to Juneau from South Dakota. One of the people she took up with was a work colleague of mine, who eventually became my next door neighbor. It made the work situation unhealthy and eventually untenable. As it turns out, my current job was a step-up and the natural beauty of Juneau's setting is awesome.

And believe me, I can easily identify and empathize with the grief and self-questioning Mercutio expressed in his 'How do people meet people?' thread. Those reactions are quite natural when one's ego has taken a pounding due to the self-centered behavior of a close loved one. The irony is that much about that (Mercutio's) situation points to fundamental character shortcomings on his ex's part, not his.

If I were to advise Mercutio on his situation, it would be to paraphrase something I read when soul searching after my divorce: when betrayed, the best way to get even is to live well.

 

[bahngeist]

Isn't it kind of ironic that while I was drafting a reply (took a while, timed out) that draws a parallel between my end-of-relationship experience with Mercutio's, he was replying in a similar vein :-?