Windows .Net Server?

[The Giver]

On a lark I signed up for MS beta program for Windows .Net server a few days ago. Surprisingly I received a positive response from them today (what were they thinking?) and as I write this I am downloading the ISO for RC2 now. Has anyone else tried this program here? If so what your thoughts?

I have no idea what I will use it for (ha!) so if anyone has any ideas let me know. I am mildly interested in seeing how it handles hyper-threading with my xeons hence my initial interest in it. But aside from that it's going to go to waste on my PC here. Of course I can't install it anywhere but on my own PC but if anyone as a use for it we could put it through it's paces together. I have an Atlas 10K III SCSI drive I'll be installing it on.

 

[Handruin]

I installed Windows server 2003 the other day, it didn't mention .NET anywhere so I wonder if I installed a newer version then you downloaded.

My initial impression is that it is slow. I installed it on a Dell 1550 dual PIII 1GH with 1 GB ram and I found it to be less responsive than W2K Advanced Server or W2K Datacenter.

One annoying part is that you have to fill out a form every time you want to reboot/shutdown. Other than that I haven't done anything of significance with it. The interface is similar to XP in respect to disabling the fancy UI in XP. So it basically looks like W2K pro/AS/DC except that the start menu is larger.

Server 2003 also has a "server roles" wizard. I don't know if I'm using the correct name, but that's the impression it gives me. Basically MS has setup a wizard to define a role for your server.

Now if MS has more than one version of RC2, then this is the newer one because I installed .NET RC2 months ago before the name change. The version I have now reflects the name change.

 

[Jake the Dog]

this years release of .Net has been offically renamed Windows Server 2003. if that what you see, then yuo have the latest candidate.

btw, doesn't it annoy you that M$ call it a RC when it's obviously not a candidate for a GA release?

 

[Pradeep]

I got my RC2 in the mail yesterday, I will install it tomorrow and see what the SCSI performance is like compared to XP Pro.

 

[CougTek]

Slower than W2K Server? How shameful! Have you tried to disabled a few unused services to see which ones cause the slugginess?

I have both W2K Server and Professional here and I have noticed that Server is something like 20-30% slower on the same systems than Professional. I haven't played with the services either...maybe I should.

 

[Pradeep]

w2k adv server is definitely very slothy.

 

[Handruin]

I'm primarily familiar with W2K AS and W2K DC. I use them just about every day on the same host that I install 2003 on. But after installing 2003, the UI seemed slower in response. It could be the integrated ATI graphics card, or it could be background services.

All I did was install it for compatibility testing and I've done no other work with it. I can't say how it compares as a server OS because we don't always put our setups in situations with high loads.

W2K is slower than pro, but I think it has to do with the CPU time being set to background services rather than set to foreground. I'm rather impressed with the stability of W2K AS. (security issues aside)

One of my domain controllers (Dell 1550 Dual PIII 1GHz) is closing in on a 1-year anniversary of continuous 100% uptime. (About a month away) I know it's silly, and many servers are capable of this, but I'm damn impressed that this domain controller/ file share server has sustained this amount of uptime with no problems.

 

[honold]

uptime is a great metric of insecurity!

 

[The Giver]

Well I installed it and it works fine. I don't notice any difference in performance from XP Pro. The Boot screen calls it "Windows.Net Server 2003" - what a mouth full. It's build 3718. I'll leave it on the drive and fool with it later but for now I'm back on XP Pro.

 

[CougTek]

I don't notice any difference in performance from XP Pro.

Well, on a dual Xeon 2.2GHz, it's quite difficult to feel a difference between two OSes, given that you have plenty of free juice before you'll notice the bloat of your softwares. I'm pretty sure Solaris would fly on this box too, even though it's hardly a symbol of lightness.

 

[Handruin]

I believe the version I have is newer than yours. I installed the version you currently have, and between the two I noticed a performance decrease. It isn't a huge decrease, but noticable. I'll look up the version number when I get to work.

 

[The Giver]

Where the heck did you get that Doug?

 

[Handruin]

The version says on the desktop: "Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition" Evaluation copy, Build 3763.

I got this version from my boss who in turn downloaded it from someone inside the redmond office I believe.

 

[Mercutio]

That's the build ID for my Microsoft Gold Certified Partners version, too (mine is called Windows 2003 Server Edition, and I just dug it out from a pile of crap on my desk).

 

[flagreen]

Ah! That explains it. I have the Standard edition, not the Enterprise so that must be it. There are two versions of the Enterprise available as well for a total of three all together.

 

[Pradeep]

Well I have .Net Enterprise Server build 3178 running. It needed some pursuading tho, didn't seem to like being told to install on a SCSI disk when there were IDE drives attached. So it's running off a 5400rpm WD 1200AB.

First thoughts:

Built-in drivers for Radeon AIW 7500.

PowerDVD 4.0 refused to create overlay, and would shutdown.

Win DVD worked eventually after I played with DXDIAG.

Windows Explorer performance is far superior to winXP. So snappy, it's like win2k. Haven't timed file copies yet. I have ticked the "advanced performance, only use with a UPS" option on all drives.

 

[The Giver]

I've been it using again today and have noticed that setting the HDD properties to advanced performance eliminates the slow SCSI writes seen with XP Pro. The guys at SR would love that.

I've installed DX9 with no problems haven't had any problems really with anything so far.

 

[Pradeep]

I wonder what Eugene will say when faced with the sad reality that SCSI and winXP really is a shit combo. :mrgrn:

Another I like about .NEt Server is that the networking seems much more intelligent. I just told it to connect to the Net via LAN (ICS on the winXP laptop) and it worked out the gateway settings etc automatically.

 

[flagreen]

Pradeep,

Now that I've changed the HDD properties I too notice everything is even snappier than before. The more I use .Net the more I like it. I saw the times you posted at SR and the improvement was impressive.

 

[Pradeep]

http://forums.storagereview.net/viewtopic.php?t=5734&p=85513

That's the link to the results I had if anyone else is interested. Just scroll to the bottom. Three times faster copying a file to the same drive, when compared to winXP Pro. I remember why I bought SCSI again

 

[CougTek]

Can't access SR right now. Where can I get that .Net special edition yet(either Enterprise or Standard)? I have a SCSI rig that's just waiting for an OS that can handle its drives properly. Even Win2K doesn't, at least not for the small files transfers. It feels slow too. SP3 and all the patches, blablablabla...not enough.

 

[CougTek]

Forget my previous question. I just registered.

If the performances of SCSI devices is better and if I can disable enough of the bloated services to make it bearably fast, .Net won't be that bad on only one of my boxes. There remains the issue of the shitty PA, which still bugs me quite a bit.

 

[Pradeep]

I got my copy of RC2 thru my Action Pack subscription. Comes with a product key that is good for 10 activations, and it works for 360 days.

It comes with all server services turned off, you have to use the wizard to select the things you want to run. It boots just as fast for me as winXP did. Definitely no 2 minute boot as is the case with win2k AS. It's all good.

 

[CougTek]

Got it. The Enterprise Edition, RC2, build 3718, with product key MRD..-...Heermmm, you get the idea.

Installed it without much trouble on my bastard box (2 64bit PCI cards on a PCChips motherboard and an ATI Charger 4Mo graphic card).


A few comments :

• I could not upgrade my Win2000 Pro installation. .Nut Server 2003 Enterprise Edition can probably only upgrade Win2K Server and Advanced Server.
  
  During the initial setup screen, it asked me, like Win2K and WinXP do, to press F6 if I had to install SCSI devices. I did so, since my drives are connected to an Adaptec 39160 on this system. Couldn't get it to accept the drivers for the controller card. Told me that it cannot install mass storage device. I ignored this and continued the installation. Apparently, .Nut ignored it too since it detected my two SCSI drives just fine and let me create a new partition, format it in NTFS and continue like if nothing happened. Weird, but as long as it works, I don't give a damn.
  
  I have the habit of entering the product key with CapsLock enabled. I forgot to de-Caps after I finished typing the product key and when the Admin password step arrived, it warned me that CapsLock was enabled. Nice. I don't remember Win2K to do that. WinXP...cannot remember either. Last time I installed it was three weeks ago (Win2K is my favorite).
  
  Once all is said and done, .Nut takes 1.58GB on my hard drive. Not that phat compared to its predecessor.
  
  Folding@home works fine on it Mozilla 1.3b too.
  
  The only thing I had to install manually was the integrated audio on my motherboard. I used the drivers for WinXP and now sound is ok (at least for a cheapo SiS AC'97 codec).

Overall, I don't find it as bloated and sluggish as some of you guys said it was. On a ­­­­[Thunderbird 800MHz / SiS735 / 256MB PC133 / Atlas 10K3] platform, it is reasonnably responsive. Certainly more than Win2K Server was. F@h client step times are similar to those achieved by Win2K Pro and better than those posted by Win2K Server.

I think I'll keep it for the one year period I'm allowed to.

 

[Handruin]

One other thing I forgot to mention about the build I installed is that MS clamps down on security for internet explorer. Every time I launched the browser, I received a warning that I would not be able to visit normal sites until I adjusted the security level.

I couldn't even get to MS's site with the security set so high. I couldn't figure out how to turn this feature off, I also didn't spend a lot of time with it. I will be spending more time on this platform in a week or so. I have to do some testing with server 2003.

WinXP does inform you if the caps lock is on when logging in. I've done it a few times and a little popup box informas me.

 

[Pradeep]

One other thing I forgot to mention about the build I installed is that MS clamps down on security for internet explorer. Every time I launched the browser, I received a warning that I would not be able to visit normal sites until I adjusted the security level.

I couldn't even get to MS's site with the security set so high. I couldn't figure out how to turn this feature off, I also didn't spend a lot of time with it. I will be spending more time on this platform in a week or so. I have to do some testing with server 2003.

Try under Tools->Internet Options-> Security. Perhaps it is default set to Restricted or something like that.

One thing I have found is that sometimes .Net Server will lose Internet connectivity. I have to delete, then recreate the Network connection and it goes away happy again for a few days more.

 

[flagreen]

Here is a way to do away with shutdown logging.

a.. Go to Start and then Run

b.. Type mmc

c.. Click File and then Add/Remove Snap-in

d.. Click Add..., find the Snap-in Group Policy Object Editor and click Add

e.. Click Finish, click Close, click OK

f.. Navigate to Local Computer Policy/Computer
Configuration/Administrative Templates/System, right click Display Shutdown Event Tracker and click Properties

g.. Click Disabled, click OK

Note - Worked fine for me.



To disable "Ctrl+ Alt +Del" at startup;

Start->run-> type mmc

File->Add/Remove snap-in Click Add Find the Group Policy Object Editor and click Add Click Finish Click Close, click Ok

Navigate to: Computer Configuration\Windows Settings\Security Settings\Local Policies\Security Options\
and find the "Interactive logon: Do not require Crtl+alt+del and enable it

If you want to automatically logon, take a look at:
http://www.ilopia.com/windowsDotNet/search.aspx?query=automatic+logon

I haven't tried either of those yet.

 

[flagreen]

Coug,

Have tried enabling the advanced performance setting for your 10K III yet?

 

[CougTek]

No I didn't. Thanks for remindering me to do it. I forgot about it and wondered why my ATTO results didn't improve under .Nut versus Win2K.