Media Player Appliances

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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I use the Boxee with SMB, but don't use mount points. Works perfectly for me.

Mount points should be irrelevant on that level. Only the machine that's maintaining them should even know they're a shortcut in the filesystem in the first place.

I'm actually not sure if the issue at this point is something weird about Samba or the fact that my clients are running whatever retarded version of it they put on Boxees and PCH C-200s.

I told all the appliances I could that they need to re-index my server. Maybe that will help with access.
 

ddrueding

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If it is supposed to be transparent to the client, doesn't that mean that the problem must be with the server implementation?
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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If it is supposed to be transparent to the client, doesn't that mean that the problem must be with the server implementation?

It's supposed to be transparent to everything except the person making the mount point. They're normally made using Disk Management; that's not something end users should be messing with.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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I quite like Boxee in its Windows version. I figured it would just be a straight copy of XBMC with a Boxee-looking skin on it, but I like that it integrates with my browser so I can tag things for viewing in the app or the appliance.

It found art for all the movies in my Movies folder (only about two dozen titles I probably ripped for other people). It has a much, much harder time with my music collection, but after a five minute pause it did bring up images around half the composers or performers.

Sadly, it doesn't really seem to know what to do with playlists for videos, which means it's not great for seamless episode viewing, but it's a very nice interface for bringing up an album or a movie and playing it, and I like its remote enough that I'm considering a move to it from the Rii keyboard I use at home now.

Does anyone have any experiences with or strong preferences for one or other File Renaming Tool for Windows?
 

ddrueding

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At one point someone here recommended one that could recognize various season/episode headers and standardize them.

Many years ago I had a program/service that could sample the audio of an MP3 and correctly fill in the ID3 info.

I don't remember the names of either of these, though I would love to have them again.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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theRenamer is actually quite functional. I set it loose on some of the videos I've acquired from the internet and I found that it mostly worked well.

In a few cases I had to switch the database it was using to pick up something or other. Files with truly idiosyncratic naming I found I could more quickly rename with Filebot, which is actually made to do the same kinds of lookups but doesn't automate as easily.

The consensus of my students seems to be that a relatively powerful HTPC for ripping and storage with XBMC for a GUI and Mezzmo to handle additional viewing locations, and with a Lenovo or Rii wireless keyboard is the best way to go. I didn't even mean to bring up using a PC in that context, but I did demo the Windows version of Boxee, which started us down that path regardless.

They're more split on client devices. I figured there would be more interest in the Popcorn Hour as a DLNA server but apparently its on-screen interface and "limited" (only one internal drive bay) expandability is a turn off.

The other odd note I have is that Boxee not-infrequently hangs up when browsing shared content via DLNA or SMB. I've not observed it do that when talking to NFS, but that might just be because the little Vortexbox I'm using only has about 50GB of stuff on it.

My students have almost zero interest in non-premium internet content, which is sad. Khan Academy and TED Talks by themselves should be pretty compelling arguments in favor of that sort of thing. That's probably the last big thing I need to document.

Everyone I show this stuff walks away with a techie boner or the lady equivalent. Apparently consumer electronics manufacturers haven't figured out how to let people know they can do this stuff or how easy it is.
 

Adcadet

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theRenamer
My students have almost zero interest in non-premium internet content, which is sad. Khan Academy and TED Talks by themselves should be pretty compelling arguments in favor of that sort of thing. That's probably the last big thing I need to document.
I'd add PBS Frontline to that list. Amazing in quality and price if you ask me. But I'm sort of into that type of thing.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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I have discovered one of the reasons I haven't been as enchanted with the Boxee box: While it has (some) support for uPnP, it's not actually DLNA certified. Apparently that is the cause of my weirdness with playback and browsing performance. It's better with SMB, which is fine other than the fact that SMB is complicated to explain and extremely inconsistent from one version of Windows to another.
 

Mercutio

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Plex is another interesting new development and yet another fork off of XBMC. Boxee has a social aspect in that you can tag videos to watch later and share what you've been watching with your OrkFaceSpace friends.

Plex is a media service that lets you share your library through its media hub with whomever you choose. It's still beta code but in addition to the server (available for Windows, *nix and OSX), there are clients for pretty much everything. They're charging $5 for the Android client. I'm not ready to make that leap but I'm definitely going to play with it some more.
 

Mercutio

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Anyone know of a tool that can scan and create .pls or .m3u files for all the directories in a tree? Does Foobar do that? Or MediaMonkey?
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Playlist for each folder.

I can probably script something, but since this is partially to answer a question for someone else, I don't really want to bother.
 

Sol

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Anyone know of a tool that can scan and create .pls or .m3u files for all the directories in a tree? Does Foobar do that? Or MediaMonkey?

According to Wikipedia an m3u is just a list of absolute or relative path names so it's almost not even a script as much as a command...

i.e.
Code:
find . -name "*.mp3" -execdir readlink -f {} >> playlist.m3u \;

On windows it'd be something like
Code:
dir /s > playlist.m3u
wrapped in whatever one uses to iterate through directories in windows.

Of course you have to decide if you want absolute or relative paths, do you want the m3u files in the directory with the files they refer to or in the base directory and what OS you want to run this on. But with that info it should be pretty simple.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Hopefully, I'll have a Logitech Revue for the pile by the end of the week. I'm looking for something to plop down in the second bedroom at my parents' house. With any luck I'll be able to hook it into Plex and stream content from my apartment, but even if I can't, I can see that it has a great built-in web browser and the usual Android experience for things like Email, so it would work as a tertiary internet access device.

I just started my second go-round on this stuff. It's a shockingly popular class, though even after I demonstrate the devices and what they can do, many of the guys still want to plug a computer in their TVs.

New observations relating to this subject:
1. My issues with Boxee apparently stem from the fact that it is not in fact a DLNA certified device. It kinda-sorta has UPNP functionality, but DLink admits that it doesn't work very well. They told me that I'm better off with SMB or NFS. Which is fine for me, but for my students that's kind of a huge gotcha since I don't really want to spend a class period explaining all the inconsistencies in Windows networking.

2. Likewise, Roku players don't support DLNA. There's an application you can install to make some local media content available to a Roku, but it's not DLNA. I hadn't even noticed, but one of my students asked me about it and sure enough it's not there.

3. Of all the devices I've tried, the Boxee has the best presentation for music. That said, it's still absolutely awful. Everything seems to be built around the idea of having playlists, but if you actually have hundreds of playlists, it's still atrocious to manage on a set top box. This is a place where an HTPC is vastly better.

4. The Popcorn Hour player is a functional Linux machine of some kind. With its software installed, it's visible via SMB and NFS and it's a DLNA service, too. But for some reason, that software isn't in the box's firmware. It needs to be installed on a drive that's formatted with a Linux-ish filesystem. I had been using an NTFS drive in its caddy, so the software wasn't working until I plugged in a 1GB thumb drive and allowed it to format it. Whatever. Seems like a silly limitation.

5. Because the interest in HTPCs is so high, I'm spending more time on XBMC. Unfortunately, what I'm finding is that a lot of XBMC is kind of hack-y and not very functional for anything but local media. It's great for your enormous collection of video files. It's not so good if you'd like to watch streaming content. Services like Netflix, Youtube and various first party streaming sites like PBS and Comedy Central all appear to be completely broken. In theory, that's not a big deal because you're using a computer, but of course it would be nice to have one interface for everything. Having to dig through the list of addons to find the one you want is kind of a PITA, too. This is someplace where Windows Media Center does a better job. I hated typing that sentence.

6. There's a DLNA server addon for FreeNAS. That's not really something I'd teach in class, but it seems to work and it's free.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Hopefully, I'll have a Logitech Revue for the pile by the end of the week. I'm looking for something to plop down in the second bedroom at my parents' house. With any luck I'll be able to hook it into Plex and stream content from my apartment, but even if I can't, I can see that it has a great built-in web browser and the usual Android experience for things like Email, so it would work as a tertiary internet access device.

I just started my second go-round on this stuff. It's a shockingly popular class, though even after I demonstrate the devices and what they can do, many of the guys still want to plug a computer in their TVs.

New observations relating to this subject:
1. My issues with Boxee apparently stem from the fact that it is not in fact a DLNA certified device. It kinda-sorta has UPNP functionality, but DLink admits that it doesn't work very well. They told me that I'm better off with SMB or NFS. Which is fine for me, but for my students that's kind of a huge gotcha since I don't really want to spend a class period explaining all the inconsistencies in Windows networking.

2. Likewise, Roku players don't support DLNA. There's an application you can install to make some local media content available to a Roku, but it's not DLNA. I hadn't even noticed, but one of my students asked me about it and sure enough it's not there.

3. Of all the devices I've tried, the Boxee has the best presentation for music. That said, it's still absolutely awful. Everything seems to be built around the idea of having playlists, but if you actually have hundreds of playlists, it's still atrocious to manage on a set top box. This is a place where an HTPC is vastly better.

4. The Popcorn Hour player is a functional Linux machine of some kind. With its software installed, it's visible via SMB and NFS and it's a DLNA service, too. But for some reason, that software isn't in the box's firmware. It needs to be installed on a drive that's formatted with a Linux-ish filesystem. I had been using an NTFS drive in its caddy, so the software wasn't working until I plugged in a 1GB thumb drive and allowed it to format it. Whatever. Seems like a silly limitation.

5. Because the interest in HTPCs is so high, I'm spending more time on XBMC. Unfortunately, what I'm finding is that a lot of XBMC is kind of hack-y and not very functional for anything but local media. It's great for your enormous collection of video files. It's not so good if you'd like to watch streaming content. Services like Netflix, Youtube and various first party streaming sites like PBS and Comedy Central all appear to be completely broken. In theory, that's not a big deal because you're using a computer, but of course it would be nice to have one interface for everything. Having to dig through the list of addons to find the one you want is kind of a PITA, too. This is someplace where Windows Media Center does a better job. I hated typing that sentence.

6. There's a DLNA server addon for FreeNAS. That's not really something I'd teach in class, but it seems to work and it's free.
 

BingBangBop

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Hopefully, I'll have a Logitech Revue for the pile by the end of the week.

I thought the Revue was recently discontinued. I would think that including a discontinued product in your class wouldn't be your best idea. Perhaps one of the other Google TV set top boxes would be a better alternative.
 

Mercutio

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1. People are cheap. Discontinued products are cheap. There is an overlap of interests there.

2. None of this stuff is going to be on the market forever. The truth is that anything I'm talking about in November 2011 is going to be in the retail channel for a while yet, but by November 2012 I bet all or almost all of it will be obsolete.

3. I'd be buying it for personal use anyway.
 

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I think the ideal is to find something that does DLNA + Netflix + Amazon + Hulu + a decent interface to Youtube and Vimeo + Pandora + Last.fm/Spotify/whatever other music streaming.

And basically nothing does that. All those miss working with one thing or other.

The other thing to watch out for is that handling of DLNA content can be incredibly inconsistent or slow depending on not just the server but also the device.
 

ddrueding

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My next project is trying to get my HomeRun HD to tie directly into my Boxee. Apparently there is an XBMC trick to make it work. Maybe next week.
 

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Apparently the current software version of Boxee will be the last one. I'm not sure if the project is open enough for anyone else to pick of the banner, and it's an xbmc derivative anyway, but find that annoying.

The Logitech Revue is down to $80 now, so I finally ordered one. I figure it will be a small, hackable computer even if I don't wind up using it for anything else.

And the LG Smart TV Upgrader supports Plex as of its most recent firmware upgrade (maybe it did before, but I didn't notice it). I was able to stream DVD-quality video from my office where I have a Plex server set up to my apartment with no problems, though that did require me to manually configure the firewall at my office beforehand.

I still haven't found a set top box I'm actually happy with.
 

Mercutio

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It strikes me that media player appliances are just like mobile phones and home routers: They all suck. It's just a matter of which compromises to make to get some level of functionality.

I ran across a discussion of the NBox player today. There are several different revisions of them at price points between $60 and $120. They don't appear to do native DLNA, but the high end model runs Android, which means it should have good support for premium streaming services and cloud connectivity.
 

MaxBurn

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I think I agree, I'm focused on devices that do one or two things really well as nothing just does it all. The Dune player does blurays and everything I get through other means over the network file browser, it doesn't have any real cloud services I'm interested in. Apple tv does netflix (though I let that go a while back) and the tv shows I get via itunes legitimately now wherever possible. I actually play music very rarely through the stereo but that is airplayed over the computer or the phone to the apple tv.
 

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The insult to injury would be to need two or three appliances to get full functionality. That seems to be the case right now. The devices that can auto-rip mostly suck as players. The devices that stream premium content don't do local data very well. And the devices that do handle local data don't rip or stream very well.

The biggest aggravation to me is that most devices that stream music seem to only want to deal with either single files or through shared playlists. Most of them aren't smart enough to advance to the next file in a directory structure. That sucks for people (like me) who don't make use of playlists.
 

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That's been my central thesis all along, but of course I'm actually getting paid to mess with this stuff right now. It would be nice to come up with a workable, inexpensive system I could actually recommend.
 

Mercutio

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I finally had the opportunity to test a Google TV under conditions that involve its actual feature set.
The good: It DOES control your TV and your receiver. The program guide is kinda spiffy. The web browser is fully functional. The keyboard is a good size.
The bad: Basically everything else.

There's about two dozen GoogleTV compliant apps. That's it. I was able to load in the Amazon App Store, only to find that the majority of apps from it won't load on a GoogleTV either, though I'm not sure if the difficulty is due to the screen resolution or the different input options. Eventually I made myself a big bundle of .apk files and emailed them to myself, which let me load some applications, but only about half of what I tried actually worked.

As a standalone device, everything depends on getting Apps going on it. Once they're there, it's a crapshoot if they'll run or not.
As a companion or overlay to TV service, it's more interesting but there's no way in hell it's worth more than $100.

The use case that I see for it is basically someone older who doesn't want to fool around with a desktop or laptop and who doesn't like tablets, who wants to check emails and watch the occasional bit of Youtube content. That's about it.

Out of all the stuff I've ever worked with, my favorite appliance is absolutely the LG Smart TV upgrader. It's $50 and it talks to Amazon, Netflix and Hulu. It supports DLNA, NFS and SMB. Nothing else has that complete feature set, even at four times the price.
 

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XBMC is kind of a swiss army knife media player front end. It integrates with internet services, supports ridiculous numbers of file formats and it's standardized across almost everything that can run it... which is almost everything with a general purpose CPU and a reasonable amount of RAM at this point. It'll kind-of run on an original Xbox or a Nintendo Wii, for example.

The interesting thing about this device is that it's a very low cost way to get something that we basically have to use a PC or some loud, stupid game console for right now. The Pi setup will cost maybe $45 and needs about $2 worth of electricity to operate for a year, so it's a very smart way to go with this stuff.
 

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The Boxee People sent me an email today about their new cloud storage application Cloudee. The idea is that it's a service for limited sharing of videos among friends and family members, but beta testers get unlimited free storage such that used space carries over to the product launch.

Boxee also just launched a second generation product, the Boxee TV. It has a built in digital TV tuner for OTA and unencrypted cable but I can't find anything that indicates that it supports DLNA or some equivalent service as either a client or a server. It's physically smaller and it's substantially cheaper.
 

Howell

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Roku has a Plex client now. Reports are its not a great experience.

I got rid of the Roku because of wireless issues but I'm looking for a new system.

I'm looking for a small/lean client to plug into the tv and I've been looking at Plex.
 
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