98SE setup BSOD?

sedrosken

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Every diagnostic tool I can find points to it being a regular 440BX. And now I have it running 768MB RAM right now with no issues... because reasons. I mostly just wanted to see if I could pull it off. I don't know how I'm doing it given those specs you just rattled off.

It's 3x256MB DIMMs. I guess it must be a GX, but why would everything tell me it's a BX?
 

time

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440BX could handle a specific variant of 256MB DIMMs, but 4 DIMMs required the use of registered RAM. Three appears to be OK (at least on some motherboards), based on user reports.

There's a lot of useful detail here.
 

Bozo

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Although Windows is reporting 768MB of ram, the proof would be if you can actually access and use that much. But how?
 

snowhiker

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I've used two different BX chipset motherboards. ASUS P2B and P3B-F and I'm pretty sure they supported 256MB x 3 RAM configurations. I think all three modules had to be dual-rank (vs quad-ranked) DIMMS. Or something like that. Been decades....
 

sedrosken

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Am I insane or something? I've decided to test this by using Opera 11.50 and seeing how many tabs I can open before it falls all over itself. Right now I've got the RAM usage at 33% with some 11 tabs open. Honestly it's a bit more light than I anticipated. Posting from it now.

Running Windows 98SE so I can run my DOS games without VDMs or DOSBOX as both of those tend to lag a fair bit. Using KernelEx I can run Opera 11.50 and access this site. I squeezed a little more performance out of this machine by enabling DMA for the HDD and CD-ROM drive. The latter of which I have finally replaced with a model appropriate for the rough era in which this machine would have existed. It works, even analog CD audio works! I think the drive is one of the first 52x models, with a manufacture date in March of 1999.

I'm a bit more obsessed with this than I should be.
 

timwhit

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That era wasn't that rough. DOS 5.22 with Windows 3.0 was rough. I'm sure some of the older members remember much rougher times than that.

When Windows 95 came out my friend got an Acer that came with an OEM CD. I borrowed it to install on my Pentium 90. That was a revolutionary upgrade for me.
 

Chewy509

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That era wasn't that rough. DOS 5.22 with Windows 3.0 was rough. I'm sure some of the older members remember much rougher times than that..

Let's see the rough stuff...
Manually setting IRQs and DMA ports via jumpers on expansion cards and ensuring no two cards had the same...
Stuffing up the BLASTER environment variable so your games couldn't find the included Sound Blaster 2.0 card.
Attempting to maximum convention RAM to get games like Falcon 3.0 to run.
Having multiple boot menus for different things you wanted to do, like one for game that needed XMS, one for games that used EMS, one for Windows, etc.
 

Tannin

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DOS 4 was rough.
Windows 95 first generation plug and play was rough. (Setting IRQs with jumpers on cards was way easier. For one thing, if you got it right, it would actually work. Yes, every time.)
Dealing with f*&(^&$ing pox-ridden Quicktime was rough.
Relying on f*&(^&$ing Iomega zip drives for backup was rough.
Managing a legitimate install of 123 or almost anybloodything else sold on hardware copy-protected floppy discs was rough.
Data recovery off corrupted MFM hard drives was rough.
Looking at the output of CGA graphics cards was rough.
 

snowhiker

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^^^ I actually skipped CGA and went right to 16 color (out of 256) EGA. Princeton EGA monitor, 640x350 12" monitor. Text looked amazing compared to CGA and TVs at the time. Circa 1985.

The monitor and video card was $200 more than a complete XT computer: XT mobo, case, PSU, keyboard, 8 MHz 8088, 640KB ram (18x256kb + 18x64kb INDIVIDUAL chips) 360k half-height floppy + controller.
 

ddrueding

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Attempting to maximum convention RAM to get games like Falcon 3.0 to run.
Having multiple boot menus for different things you wanted to do, like one for game that needed XMS, one for games that used EMS, one for Windows, etc.

This was my first real geek adventure (that I remember), I was 12.
 

Mercutio

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The first PC I built from parts for myself had a Hercules (high res mono-green) screen. I couldn't afford EGA and 4 color palettes are lame.
 

sedrosken

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The earliest tech I've had hands on was a 486DX2-66 with 20 MB of RAM. I realize most had around 4 to 8, but the one I had ahold of had been dramatically upgraded.
 

snowhiker

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My (parents) 386 was only 33MHz, but the 486DX4 was 100MHz. That was an awesome number to reach at the time.

And the whole issue of "clock-tripling" and ....well my 50 MHz 486 is a "true 50", while your 66MHz is only a clock doubled 33MHz. Yada, Yada, Yada.

Who would have thought back then that we'd be dealing with 30-50x clock multipliers!!!
 

sedrosken

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I thought true 50MHz 486s had issues with VL-bus. Not that much of an issue if your system was ISA all the way, but then you were bottlenecking your video and IO and might as well have gone with a clock-doubling 486DX2-66. Couple that with the fact that motherboard speeds of 50MHz were barely on the ragged edge of the possible in the 486-era and it seems as though living on the bleeding edge would screw you in the end back then. Especially as the first-run Pentiums were pretty much lemons all around.

Say what you will about 98SE's failings but they certainly make it easy to transfer an install from one hard drive to another. Just make sure you can see hidden files, copy everything except %windir%\FONTS and %windir%\win386.swp as both are in use and will stop the copy operation when come across, then make the second drive be C: and reinstall Windows into the same directory as before. It should keep everything, including installed programs and drivers. Moved over from the 20GB HDD to the 80GB (which, incidentally, is completely fine after having been repartitioned) so I could have more than 2.3GB free space after all my games were installed. I'd have gone with a 40GB if I had one available.

Also dug out my old CRT with an optimal res of 1024x768 @ 85 Hz. It can go up to 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz. I got it out because I felt my old Ultrasharp wasn't reproducing colors quite as well as I think it should be with VGA. Also, I can only go up to 1280x1024x16bpp with my amount of VRAM and 4:3 resolutions are subtly stretched on a 5:4 monitor.

At 85 Hz it's tolerable, thankfully. 60 Hz is like looking into a strobe light for me.
 

Tannin

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Correct, of course, Tim. MB, not GB.

VLB didn't really get going properly until after the 486DX-50 was on the way out. For that reason, it was seldom an issue. When the DX50 was around, it was ISA all the way. But don't think that this meant it was trouble-free. DX50s were very troublesome indeed. Dreadful bloody things. (Well, actually, the trouble was that most motherboards just couldn't hack running at 50MHz. The CPU itself was presumably OK.

VLB problems were much more prominent with the 486DX-40, which came out about 18 months later. (By then, VLB had gone from weird but promising new development to full-on mainstream.) The DX-50 was hard enough to get working with ISA, never mind VESA. The DX-40 was fine on ISA but VESA was scary.

The real answer was the 486DX/2-66 which had been theoretically available since six months before the DX-40 debut, but only if you were a successful stockbroker or a Middle-eastern princeling. In practice the DX/2-66 became available to normal people six months after the DX-40. It went from being a mega-expensive Intel-only product to a still pricey but not unreasonable performance chip of choice overnight when AMD brought their one out. At that point you could buy one for a semi-sensible price (Intel or AMD, didn't matter, the price was about the same, as was the performance), plug it into pretty much any motherboard, and expect it to just work. Well, as much as you could expect anything to just work in those days. You often had to fiddle. If you wanted work-first-time, every-time, nothing matched a 386DX-40 until about the time of ... oh ... let's say well into the PCI era. Hell, RAM remained the usual problem child right up until about 2005 or so.
 

sdbardwick

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I guess I was lucky back in the day. My 486DX-50 never gave me any problems, but it was on an ISA only board. Summer '92 I splurged and bought 8 megs of RAM (30 pin SIMMs with parity [remember parity? now known as ECC {ok, part of ECC}]) for IIRC $38/meg. 8MB was so I could run OS/2 and Win3.11 in whatever that weird hybrid mode was that allowed OS/2 and Win apps on the same desktop without thrashing the 120MB HDD. ATi VGA Wonder (512K) recycled from my 286 and SoundBlaster (original flavor) made Wing Commander fun.
 

Mercutio

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My 486 machine of that era was a dual (SMP) DX/33. It had EISA for a Fast SCSI controller and a VLB slot for a pro-grade 2MB Tseng Labs video card and it had an unthinkable 16MB RAM. It had been an engineering workstation before I got it. I believe it was manufactured in 1991. By the time it turned in to a hand me down, it was still a sweet, sweet machine in its day and I think it's still sitting in my parents' garage. I used it to run OS/2 and Linux my first year of college before I upgraded to a 128MB dual Pentium 133.
 

Mercutio

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The 486 was a hand me down from my dad's engineering company. The two Pentium 133s and dual CPU board were cheaper at the time than buying one Pentium 166. I also had a dual Pentium Pro 200, albeit as my first "server" machine and well after the point they were considered high end, and a Celeron 300a (450MHz Pentium 2, in other words) machine. Having the SMP machines was definitely nice for me, but I gave up after Intel moved the capability to Xeons and didn't pick it back up until the Athlon X2.
 

sedrosken

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Just upgraded the 350MHz Pentium II to a 500MHz Pentium III. Absolutely NOTHING subtle about the extra snap the machine has now.

Funny thing about it is that I had to take the retention mechanism out of the machine to get the processor to fit, but now the power supply (which is mounted directly on top of the CPU in this case) is serving that function -- the new processor has a taller heatsink, and the power supply, when properly mounted, holds it in using the heatsink as leverage.
 
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