AGP 8X, either Xeon, or Athlon motherboard, cpu recommend?

[Santilli]

Hi guys, here we go again.

Existing components are Seasonic 500 watt power supply, with 20 pin connector, not 24, Matrox P650, two sony 19's, Adaptec 29160N scsi card, connected to a variety of 15.3 or 4, Cheetahs, from 18 to 36 gig.

All this is connected to a dying Asus A7M266, with 1.4 ghz athlon, running at 1 ghz.

I just backed up all my data, but, I need a case, motherboard, ram, and cpu combination, combined with Zantec Stealth fans, and, Swiftech cpu cooler.

Options I've looked at are Supermicro e7501 motherboards, for, down the road, a possible dual solution, which, considering it's a school computer, doing nothing more then running email, virus s....software, and Novell, Photoshop 7,
lots of scanning, lots of word documents, and, it's either XP, or 2000, not server.

Others are gigabyte boards, with Nvidia 3 chipsets, and an Athlon processor.

I'm after either a gigabyte, or supermicro motherboard, and, either an athlon dual core capable motherboard, or, a dual capable motherboard.

I would like agp 8, as well.

On board scsi is nice, but not vital, and, onboard supported raid 0, with an old Adaptec 2010S, or something like that, might work as well, letting me use to death my 18 gig Cheetah 15.3's.

Another possibility is a scsi SCA box capable box, but, it has to be quiet, and capable of taking the Seasonic 500Watt power supply.

Suggestions? Ideas?

Thanks
Gs

 

[Buck]

Off the top, I'm thinking you might want to look at the following:

Motherboard: GA-K8NSC-939 Supports 4 GB memory and has 5 PCI slots.
CPU: ADA3800 non-dual core
Memory: KVR400X64C3A/1G (2 sticks)
Case: Antec SLK3700BQE (inspite of the retarded door; nice cooling and drive setup; pretty quiet)

I'm sure others will have beneficial input.

 

[Sol]

Any socket 939 nForce3 board should meet those requirements. They will generally not widely advertise that they are duel core capable but as long as they have a reasonably recent bios they'll work fine. I currently run a duel core opteron on an nForce3 board from DFI and that works very well. Gigabyte offer several similar boards with minor variations of onboard extras.

 

[Santilli]

Off the top, I'm thinking you might want to look at the following:

Motherboard: GA-K8NSC-939 Supports 4 GB memory and has 5 PCI slots.
CPU: ADA3800 non-dual core
Memory: KVR400X64C3A/1G (2 sticks)
Case: Antec SLK3700BQE (inspite of the retarded door; nice cooling and drive setup; pretty quiet)

I'm sure others will have beneficial input.

IIRC: that'w whats in the other room, with a 3000, and two gigs of ram, and, an Antec 180 that girlfriend thinks is really cool, since the blue lights tell her it's on.

For me, it does some functions, scanning in particular, half as fast as Dual xeon 2.8, with 2 gigs of ram, and scsi dual 15.3s, in raid zero, with a bunch of other stuff, SCA 5 drive, with swap and page on other drives.

The cpu you suggest is high on the price curve, the 3000, and 3200 are value wise, best, IIRC.

I'm really wondering if for business, and Epson, or cannon scanning, the
Intel supermicro solutions might be both better, and faster...
s

 

[Buck]

You can always go the Opteron route with a Tyan Thunder K8W board.

 

[Santilli]

You can always go the Opteron route with a Tyan Thunder K8W board.

Links? Prices?
Not an abstract project.

gs

 

[Buck]

Sorry, the K8W uses a 24-pin connector.

 

[Santilli]

Sorry, the K8W uses a 24-pin connector.

Is there a 20 to 24 pin adapter?

gs

 

[Bozo]

Yes, there is a 20 to24 pin adapter

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812183045


Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[time]

For me, it does some functions, scanning in particular, half as fast as Dual xeon 2.8, with 2 gigs of ram, and scsi dual 15.3s, in raid zero, with a bunch of other stuff, SCA 5 drive, with swap and page on other drives.

Huh? How is this possible?

 

[CougTek]

Re: AGP 8X, either Xeon, or Athlon motherboard, cpu recommen

...combined with Zantec Stealth fans,...

It's Vantec, not Zantec.

...considering it's a school computer, doing nothing more then running email, virus s....software, and Novell, Photoshop 7,
lots of scanning, lots of word documents, and, it's either XP, or 2000, not server.

Greg, the tasks you mention would be be adequately accomplished with a Sempron and a gigabyte of RAM.

What's the connection used by your scanner? If it's parallel, then I don't see how the scanning speed could be affected by the platform (Intel or AMD). If it's USB 2.0, then perhaps you could see a difference, but it will be related to the chipset, not the processor. And nVidia's USB 2.0 performances are excellent. VIA's are so-so and ATI's are simply bad. But even if we take into account the difference in efficiency between the various USB controllers, a scanner is a relatively slow peripheral and it shouldn't be affected that much by the controller since it won't cap a USB 2.0 channel by itself (unless scanners have tremendously improved since last time I paid attention).

The cheapest way to go dual-core is with an Opteron 165. There's also the Pentium D820, but it's so poor a solution that you shouldn't even consider it.

The DFI nForce 3 motherboards were excellent. But IMO, you should sell the Matrox P650 and go for PCI-E rather than investing in a dead platform with an AGP 8X slot. If you use the DVI output, Matrox or not, it won't matter.

 

[mubs]

Many motherboards will not work with a 20 to 24 pin adapter; they require a native 24-pin connector. This has nothing to do with connector mechanicals, but the juice that's being supplied by the power supply.

 

[Santilli]

CT:

The scanning speed was running in Photoshop 7, importing from a cannon 1220 scanner, through USB one, on my Asus266 1.4 ghz Athlon, excuse me.
Doing the import, the software would take 100% of the processor.

With the duals it was something like 10%, or less.

What I have noticed with the Athlons is they were considerably, like half as fast, doing ripping and burning, that with a Athlon 3000+. Still for all other functions, it's fine. May just do the same again. Good, consistent solution.

With the Novell, and anti-virus software they use at work, the Athlon 1 ghz is borderline, and, I'm just sort of waiting for the entire deal to go south, since it's already not functioning as it should.

gs

 

[time]

Many motherboards will not work with a 20 to 24 pin adapter; they require a native 24-pin connector. This has nothing to do with connector mechanicals, but the juice that's being supplied by the power supply.

I have a theory that therefore it's only a limitation with P4 or dual CPU boards - any comments?

 

[mubs]

Don't know, time. AFAIK, even before dual core A64s came out, there were A64 motherboards that REQUIRED 24-pin power supplies. If you used a 20pin + 4 pin and the board didn't work, you'd get no sympathy from the mfr. I haven't bothered to keep up with the ever-changing specs. I'll be building a dual-core A64 system, and I'm buying a Seasonic S12-500 for it.

Unless Greg is sure that his existing power supply will work with whatever he buys, he might be looking to buy another power supply once he buys the rest of the stuff.

 

[time]

I've installed an Asus SLI board (24-pin) with a 20-pin power supply without any ill effects whatsoever. Whether or not that extends to dual core is a moot point.

 

[time]

BTW, please note I didn't use a 20-24 pin adaptor at all. Just left the extra socket holes empty.

 

[time]

Greg, I agree wholeheartedly with CougTek. AGP is obsolete, I'd only use it for a low-end system or a repair.

Of course, with a shortage of Athlon 64 below 3500+ and the abence of Socket 939 Semprons, that does raise the cost.

 

[CougTek]

Opteron 144 for socket 939 are still relatively easy to find around here and they are quite cheap.

 

[Santilli]

Don't know, time. AFAIK, even before dual core A64s came out, there were A64 motherboards that REQUIRED 24-pin power supplies. If you used a 20pin + 4 pin and the board didn't work, you'd get no sympathy from the mfr. I haven't bothered to keep up with the ever-changing specs. I'll be building a dual-core A64 system, and I'm buying a Seasonic S12-500 for it.

Unless Greg is sure that his existing power supply will work with whatever he buys, he might be looking to buy another power supply once he buys the rest of the stuff.

Well, make sure your seasonic comes with the 24 pin, since I made that assumption, and, I was wrong. I still have a 600 watt sitting in storage, that is noisy as hell, but, it is 24 pin.

I ordered from Newegg, and assumed it would come with both. I was wrong.

I'm out to lunch on this. What I'm after is near 900 dollars, and, I'm not sure that's a great idea. I could do most of the work on my dual at home, and hope tech support comes up with something decent.

As for the agp8 being obselete, since the Matrox p650 does what I need it to do, and, it plays video, and, it has no fan, why is AGP out the door?
You really have to see a 19 inch sony, or two, at billions of colors, and how clear, and beautiful it is, to say that.

Also, boards are still made that support agp, and, they are decent, for what I need to do. What it comes down to is Novell, and the garbage anti-virus software, require a greater then 1 ghz processor, and, the scanning stuff does as well, but not much.

Another way to view this is instead of investing 900 dollars, I go dual xeons, and figure over years, the cost plays out. I have little doubt that the machine I have, with supermicro X5da8, ATI 800 XL, etc. will be adequate for what I do for a long time.

A similar setup might be worth doing, in the long run. I do have a lot of 68 pin scsi drives, and, I do wonder how quiet the Supermicro cases are, with the SCA housings???

For what this machine will have to do, an agp matrox P650 should last for at least 5 years.

I just came up with a low cost solution: do everything at home, with my existing rig. Not the right answer, but, in the short term, it works...

I can scan all the stuff I need, either burn it to DVD, or, save it to memory stick, take it to school, and print copies, or overhead stuff, using their lexmark, that I just hooked up to my lame duck athlon.

May have to move soon, otherwise I would have already built this machine...

GS

 

[CougTek]

I still have a 600 watt sitting in storage, that is noisy as hell, but, it is 24 pin.

A 600W Seasonic? Noisy as Hell? Not supposed to be. Fan must be defective. Or the fan controller.

 

[time]

Also, boards are still made that support agp, and, they are decent, for what I need to do.

You'd better be quick, then. I just checked a supplier catalog:

• AMD 754 - two VIA AGP models left (one is mATX with IGP). Everything else is finished.
• AMD 939 - four out of five are PCI-e.
• Intel 775 - 10 out of 12 are PCI-e, one is AGP, and the remaining is PCI only.

What it comes down to is Novell, and the garbage anti-virus software, require a greater then 1 ghz processor, and, the scanning stuff does as well, but not much.

Although anti-virus software can definitely bring your PC to its knees, you're talking through your ass about Novell Netware. Try changing the same server to WindBlows and see how you like it.

I do have a lot of 68 pin scsi drives, and, I do wonder how quiet the Supermicro cases are, with the SCA housings???

I'm sorry, in the same sentence you talk about old SCSI drives and quiet? :wink:

For what this machine will have to do, an agp matrox P650 should last for at least 5 years.

Yes, probably. However, I think it's time you accepted that your beloved Sony monitors will not last this long.

Seriously, Greg, I think you're focusing a little too much on recycling components rather than forward planning. If you want to re-use, keep a lid on the cost.

 

[CougTek]

You want two CPUs or a dual-core.
You want to use your existing 20pin PSU.
You want an AGP 8X graphic card.

You could buy this motherboard. Here are the specifications.

I downloaded the user manual and on page 2-10 (page 26 of the pdf), it is written that although the ATX power connector (JPR1) is 24 pins, you can use a 20 pins connector.

The board costs 200U$. It will work with your current hardware. You can either buy two low-end single-core socket 940 opteron (or even just one) or you can go for two dual-core Opteron for a total of four cores if you want to.

The main drawback is that you'll need registered memory. The Corsair sticks will cost you around 70$ per 512MB or 125$ per GB.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=86017
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=86037

 

[CougTek]

I forgot to tell you to replace the POS small fan on the north bridge by something more appropriate. I've used it and it is good enough, although a bit tedious to install.

 

[Santilli]

I still have a 600 watt sitting in storage, that is noisy as hell, but, it is 24 pin.

A 600W Seasonic? Noisy as Hell? Not supposed to be. Fan must be defective. Or the fan controller.

No, it's a Sparkle or something like that. It was REPLACED by a 600watt seasonic in the server, and, the Seasonic is very quiet.

gs

 

[Santilli]

Also, boards are still made that support agp, and, they are decent, for what I need to do.

You'd better be quick, then. I just checked a supplier catalog:

• AMD 754 - two VIA AGP models left (one is mATX with IGP). Everything else is finished.
• AMD 939 - four out of five are PCI-e.
• Intel 775 - 10 out of 12 are PCI-e, one is AGP, and the remaining is PCI only.

What it comes down to is Novell, and the garbage anti-virus software, require a greater then 1 ghz processor, and, the scanning stuff does as well, but not much.

Although anti-virus software can definitely bring your PC to its knees, you're talking through your ass about Novell Netware. Try changing the same server to WindBlows and see how you like it.

Whatever. The two are on the machine, they weren't before, and it was much snappier before. It was also running at 1.4 ghz, not 1 ghz.

I do have a lot of 68 pin scsi drives, and, I do wonder how quiet the Supermicro cases are, with the SCA housings???

I'm sorry, in the same sentence you talk about old SCSI drives and quiet? :wink:

15.2 and 15.3 Cheetahs are music to my shell like ears, and, not really all that noisy.

For what this machine will have to do, an agp matrox P650 should last for at least 5 years.

Yes, probably. However, I think it's time you accepted that your beloved Sony monitors will not last this long.

You certainly have a point there. These are refurbs, about 60-80 each, but, one has gone bad. the other 4 still work. Don't think schools will change over to LCD's for teachers computers anytime in the near future.

Seriously, Greg, I think you're focusing a little too much on recycling components rather than forward planning. If you want to re-use, keep a lid on the cost.

Thanks for the heads up on the 939's going away. I have noticed the processor price has actually gone UP for the 939 3000+, and the 3200+ can be cheaper.

GS

 

[Santilli]

If Mercutio thinks it's that good, I'll give it a try:

Gigabyte GA-K8VM800M
AMD Sempron 64 3300+
BUFFALO 1GB PC 3200
Seagate 7200.7 80GB SATA
Antec SLK1650B w/350W PS
LITE-ON SHW-160P6S DVD-RW

Right now $399.42 at Newegg.

David is nice enough to pick it up, and, I can swap parts, and move over the P650, Seasonic 500 watt, Sata removeable drive bay, and use the other two for Nec 3540A's I bought awhile back.

I can use one of the PCI slots to boot from a 36 gig Cheetah 15.3, and I'm in with enough machine, and, cheap. Thanks all for the suggestions.

Greg