Athlon 64 3200+ 939?

Handruin

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Am I missing something here? I just noticed they have a 939 pin Athlon 64 3200+ for only a few dollars more than the 754. Newegg doesn't list it with the athlon 64's, you have to search for it to find it.

Is there something wrong with this chip that it should be avoided? I'm thinking that I might want to go the route of 939 pin and this processor doesn't cost an arm and a leg like the 3500+. It's in stock for $218, where as the 754 version (newcastle) is $190 (both OEM). $28 seems worth it to me since I could buy a 3800/4000+ down the road when prices get cheaper.
 

Handruin

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Further reading at anandtech reveals to me that I coincidentally found the athlon 3200+ 939 pin 90nm that came in stock Oct 1st. I also found a review. Now I'm more interested in buying a 939 setup. I'm reading that NForce 4 is right around the corner also.
 

ddrueding

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Man......Why can't I have the coolest stuff for more than a few days at a time? I haven't even finished building mine yet...
 

Handruin

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How is this cooler than what you have? I thought you were working on a silent system.
 

LiamC

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My understanding of the 90nm 939 chips is this.

Model 3000+ s754 = 512KB cache/2.0Ghz/1 memory channel
Model 3000+ s939 = 512KB cache/1.8Ghz/2 memory channels

s939 chips will be 200MHz slower than s754 chips.

By the time 754 EOL's, PCI-e/DDR2 will be the flavour, so buying a s939 board now will be a waste anyway, and they are more expensive than s754 (at the moment).

If you go here:

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000304

you will see some interesting benchmarks comparing s754 & s939

In games, 2 memory channels makes very little difference--clock speed and cache rule.

In 3D rendering/video, it depends primarily on the specific app.

In a lot of others (MP3 etc.) only clock speed matters.

All in all, for what I use a system for--code development & games, a second memory channel does not justify a 200MHz drop in CPU frequency--so I went with a s754 system.

YMMV of course.

Further, the 90nm process is new--which means initial poor overclocks. If AMD could have ramped the frequency on 90nm, they would have--smaller die == more chips per wafer == more profits. All the 90nm parts are at the low end -> this should tell you how mature the process is. The more mature the process, the better the speed binning. It is interesting to note that the 2.6GHz parts (FX-55, 4000+) will be 130nm (mature) products. Of course, if you have no interest in overclocking, this matters not.

Recent tests of 90nm parts show no reduction in core voltage, and slightly higher temps, but I am sceptical of the results. Again, as the process matures, AMD can tune for less power.
 

BooST

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Personally, I'm waiting for nForce4. Welcome back Soundstorm, DDR2, and PCIe. More than enough said.
 

Mercutio

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The disappointing thing about the S3100 is that it's a 32-bit chip. I kind of had an association in my mind between Socket 754 and 64-bitness, but that isn't the case.
 

Handruin

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Anyone have a ballpark when we'll be seeing NForce 4 systems? I read an article at the inquirer saying it would be soon, but you know how reliable they can be sometimes. I was looking to buy before the end of this month, but if it's just around the corner I'll probably wait. I haven't been too excited about the NForce 3 offerings to date. I'd like to venture into the 939 realm, but PCI express isn't something that will make me wait. It'll be nice to have, but given the price of PCI express graphics cards, I'll be waiting to buy one for at least a year, if not two.

With that said, the only other interesting aspect is DDR2 if it is part of NForce4. I'll even consider the VIA K8T890 if I find some good reviews. Do the current via setups have the same lousy GigE implementation as the majority of NForce 3 setups?
 

Buck

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Mercutio said:
The disappointing thing about the S3100 is that it's a 32-bit chip. I kind of had an association in my mind between Socket 754 and 64-bitness, but that isn't the case.
So when do you expect the 64-bit goodness to be of any real goodness for Windows?
 

CityK

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I'm curious, what's the difference between the older A64 2800 (model number ADA2800AEP4AP priced at $138 at Newegg, with a limit of 10 per customer) and the newer A64 2800 (model number ADA2800AEP4AX priced at $137 at Newegg, with no limit order)? Is it just the C0 to CG core change or is the older one more OC friendly or is it a combination of both?

Also surprised that there is such a gap ($25) between the S3100 and A64 2800 now, as I don't think it was that large initially.
 

Mercutio

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Buck said:
So when do you expect the 64-bit goodness to be of any real goodness for Windows?
As an MSDN subscriber I can use XP/64 now if I want. :p
Or load Linux or *BSD on my machine.

But supposedly an x86-64-bit version will be available to consumers next year.
 

CityK

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PS - DDR2 is NOT something we should be looking forward too. Unless them DRAM makers can improve on its latencies we are better served by vanilla DDR, which continues to push (with potential for even more) well past its formerly considered boundry of operation.

Eventually the ceiling will be reached and transitioning to DDR2 will be necessary and make sense (i.e equivalence in performance). In the long run, the consumer should also benefit via lower average pricing, provided the DRAM makers pass along the lower costs of DDR2 production in the form of price reductions. No guarantee on that, but given the commoditized nature of the business, its likely. Of course, there will remain no protection from wild cyclical up-swings generated by collusive behaviours and catastrophic shocks, whether they be real or imaginary.
 

Buck

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Mercutio said:
Buck said:
So when do you expect the 64-bit goodness to be of any real goodness for Windows?
As an MSDN subscriber I can use XP/64 now if I want. :p
Or load Linux or *BSD on my machine.

But supposedly an x86-64-bit version will be available to consumers next year.
And the performance increase with 64-bit Windows is worth it?
 

ddrueding

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Mercutio said:
The disappointing thing about the S3100 is that it's a 32-bit chip. I kind of had an association in my mind between Socket 754 and 64-bitness, but that isn't the case.
Is there any concern about some Socket 754 motherboards not supporting all socket 754 chips (ie. only 32-bit versions?). Not sure how the arcitecture/chipset/layout might provide incompatabilities.
 

time

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That's an awesome effort from AMD!

By my reckoning, the 130nm unit was pulling about the same as a P4 at the same frequency, but the 90nm unit looks to have bettered that by 20% or so! That's actually more than can be explained by the voltage drop from 1.5V to 1.4V.

To put this in perspective, the 90nm Athlon 64 is consuming barely more than half the power of an equivalent P4.
 

CityK

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CityK said:
I'm curious, what's the difference between the older A64 2800 (model number ADA2800AEP4AP priced at $138 at Newegg, with a limit of 10 per customer) and the newer A64 2800 (model number ADA2800AEP4AX priced at $137 at Newegg, with no limit order)? Is it just the C0 to CG core change or is the older one more OC friendly or is it a combination of both?
Answer: (according to this) its C0 vs CG .... which probably also implies the OC'ing guess too.
 

LiamC

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Good to see some reliable numbers. Mind you, AMD's 90nm process is late, so I suspect AMD were better at keeping problems under wraps until they fixed them (I do hear that they had issues with their first attempts at 90nm SOI)--keeps the 'street happy I guess.

Time, that sig is so funny!
 

LiamC

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Heh!

A64 4000+ 939 2.4GHz 1MB $729
A64 FX53 940 2.4GHz 1MB $827

And the difference is? Why would anyone buy the FX53? (Even though it wll be discontinued)
 

Buck

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LiamC said:
Heh!

A64 4000+ 939 2.4GHz 1MB $729
A64 FX53 940 2.4GHz 1MB $827

And the difference is? Why would anyone buy the FX53? (Even though it wll be discontinued)
Because you already blew money on a s940 board? Plus, you know the FX53 will be faster, it has to, the name is different, and it has one extra pin. :D
 

ddrueding

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Who drops $800 on a gaming CPU anyway? I haven't spent more than $300 on a CPU in the last 6 months. For just under $300 you can currently get:

A64 3400+ (2.2Ghz, 1MB)
Pentium M 735 (1.7Ghz, 2MB)
Opteron 146 (2Ghz, 1MB)
Xeon (2.8Ghz, 512KB)
P4 550 (3.4Ghz, 1MB)

I can think of a dozen other places that money could go first to speed up a computer.
 

Handruin

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Someone must be buying them...otherwise the price would drop rather than increase, no?

The most I've spent is $300 on a CPU, and that was almost 4 years ago for my 1.2GHz athlon. In retrospect, had the MB not died, it's still be running right now.
 

BooST

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I have to agree ddrueding, the most I've ever spent on a CPU was a P4 3.06 ($226) for my server. The only reason I bought it was because it's the only 533fsb P4 that has HT. I had a 2.6, but it wouldn't work in the new motherboard.
 

Buck

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LiamC said:
A64 4000+ 939 2.4GHz 1MB $729
A64 FX53 940 2.4GHz 1MB $827

And the difference is? Why would anyone buy the FX53? (Even though it wll be discontinued)
It is possible that this is just a temporary overlap. AMD will soon release the FX-55 (2.6GHz) and then the FX-53 will be quickly discontinued. Is the Hypertransport the same for both chips (800MHz or 1000MHz)?
 

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A64 4000+ 939 2.4GHz 1MB $729
A64 FX53 940 2.4GHz 1MB $827

And the difference is? Why would anyone buy the FX53? (Even though it wll be discontinued)

I thought the FX chips supported Registered memory allowing you to run the PC with more that 4Gb of Ram, eg: 8 or 16Gb in some of the Tyan Skt940 workstation boards.

Cheers
mangyDOG
 

Buck

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mangyDOG said:
I thought the FX chips supported Registered memory allowing you to run the PC with more that 4Gb of Ram, eg: 8 or 16Gb in some of the Tyan Skt940 workstation boards.

Cheers
mangyDOG
Yes mangy one, the 940 CPUs support Registered memory. However, the new FX chips, such as the FX-53, come in the 939-pin variety. Thus, they still support dual channel memory, but without the overhead of buffered RAM. So, here is my confusing take on the situation. You can either find the previous FX 130nm Sledgehammer core with either 940 or 939 pins, or you can find the new generation FX 90nm San Diego core with only 939. Either way, my distributor doesn't carry the s940 version for the FX family. It also seems that, going forward, the s940 will only be used for Opterons.
 

BooST

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Just an update, nForce4 Will debut on October 19th, and the SLI version somtime shortly after. Sounds like an A-64 is on the X-Mas list :)
 

Handruin

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I noticed abit has the new varient of the VIA K8T890 in their newer AX8 motherboard. I was considering the AV8 because it's less expensive (around $100) than most other s939 boards, and it's GigE performance is rather good from one review I read.

The AX8 is an interesting looking board, but the lack of PCI express video cards makes it hard to justify right now. Does anyone know what the "PCI-Express X1" slots are used for? They remind me of the CNR slots.
 

ddrueding

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Handruin said:
I noticed abit has the new varient of the VIA K8T890 in their newer AX8 motherboard. I was considering the AV8 because it's less expensive (around $100) than most other s939 boards, and it's GigE performance is rather good from one review I read.

The AX8 is an interesting looking board, but the lack of PCI express video cards makes it hard to justify right now. Does anyone know what the "PCI-Express X1" slots are used for? They remind me of the CNR slots.
IRC, those are 1x PCI-E slots. Wasnt the spec to include different sized slots for the different speed ranges? The one that replaces AGP is clearly a 16x slot.
 

Mercutio

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There are plenty of PCI-express video cards. ATI makes at least three, and newegg sells them. I'd guess the crap factory that is nVidia likewise makes a couple as well.
 

Handruin

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I've only seen the one PCI-express offering from ATI on newegg, are the others not listed? I'm not even considering the X800XT PCIe as an offering...not for $700. I saw mwave has the other PCIe ATI cards. I'll have to find some reviews to see how well they perform. I was looking for something equivalent to a 9800 Pro.

I also can't find the 90nm winchester A64's on newegg any longer. My links above no longer work.
 

CityK

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Mercutio said:
The X300, X600 and X700 are all PCI express.
And there's at least three variants of the 600 alone: X600SE, X600, X600Superduper-or-something-like-that.
 

Buck

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Just as a note, my impression is that the FX 939 family has unlocked multiplier, whereas the non-FX versions do not. Is this correct?
 
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