Backups? SATA or ide? or Firewire?

[Santilli]

Granite Digital has come up with some really cost effective SATA solutions.

www.granitedigital.com

They also have some pretty good ide/firewire solutiont for backup.

http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/products/dvdcenter.shtml

has some really cost effective bundles for DVD drives, media, and backup.

I Have a 160 Maxtor, and I would like to either mirror that in a firewire case,
or go DVD backup.

Many have suggested firewire backup as the way to go.
SATA is faster, cheaper, more or less, but not bi-platform compatible.

I currently have two Lite on Firewire CD RW's, and they rock, with Roxio 5.0, not 6.0.

CD's are insufficent in size for backups, and I need DVD for DVD backups, thanks to girlfriend.

Any suggestions as to complete software options at firewiredirect for the long term DVD copying, and regular data storage?

Thanks

g
s

 

[Santilli]

Forgot to add, as good as the Pioneer looks, Plextor has a 12X DVD writer on the market. So 8x should be yesterday, tomorrow.

s

 

[Fushigi]

Personally, I usually favor higher capacities over higher speeds. So for a DVD burner I'd say forget the 12X and go dual-layer. 8+GB/disc.

 

[ddrueding]

Personally, I usually favor higher capacities over higher speeds. So for a DVD burner I'd say forget the 12X and go dual-layer. 8+GB/disc.

Agreed. Though with this tech being so new, I'd hold off before trusting my backups to an unproven technology. Especially considering Santilli's tendency for "tried and true" hardware.

 

[Pradeep]

FW800 is complete overkill for a DVD burner. Even talking about soon to be 16x DVD burn speeds, at around 15MB/sec, FW400 is more than capable. For HDDs, there is a slight performance increase with FW800, but until the next gen of IDE drives with greater transfer rates is released, I wouldn't pay the price premium compared with commodity FW400 enclosures.

For backups, the DVD+R DL (dual layer) can hold 8+GB, but media is reported to be around the $5 per disc mark, and currently speeds for DL writing are 2.4x, so around 45 mins per DL disc. Compare that to around 15 mins to burn two single layer DVD+R at 8x-12x, perhaps $1 per disc. So if you are around to switch DVDs, single layer is the most cost effective right now.

For dvd backup software, DVDShrink is free and easy to use. All you need.

 

[Santilli]

Still, it would be nice to be able to burn DVD's and have backups avaliable, one to one.

Saw a Sony 8x ide at Costco for 130, but, I still would like to be able to do a flat out copy of our favorite used DVD's.

Another idea I have is I wonder if you can take VCR tapes and copy onto DVD's? I saw on machine for 400 dollars that does that. Still a little steep.

Any ideas on a way to do this?

Sleepy, and sore back...

s

 

[Mercutio]

Lots of ways. It depends on how much work you want to do, how much editing you'd like to do, and how much money you can spend. I'll do my duty as a friendly neighborhood freedom-hating liberal and tell you all about them.

Option 1: ADS Pyro. It's an analog AV to 1394 bridge without the camcorder in the middle. Output is DV, done in hardware (no dropped frames, perfect audio sync), and it works natively with Premier and with iMovie. Down side is that you still need something to turn DV into MPEG2. $150

Option 2: Plextor ConvertX. External USB2. Works with Windows only, and only with its own native software, WinDVD Creator. Upside is that all output comes out as MPEG2 (or divx, even), and everything is done in hardware, so no sync problems. WinDVD Creator is a really nice package for analog to DVD conversions, but I wish it worked with other programs, like Virtualdub or Screenblast. $130

Option 3: Buy a decent DV camcorder. This one is easy and has lots of utility. Costs more than #1, and has the same drawbacks. $300 and up.

Option 4: Hauppauge WinTV PVR250. The worst software package in the whole universe, but it's hardware MPEG2, and it's cheap. $90 or an OEM card.

Option 5: ATI All in Wonder (do NOT buy the TV Wonders) or VIVO cards - These guys are reasonably priced, as little as $70 for a 9000ish VIVO, and have all kinds of flexibility. Plus they work with almost everything, at least in Windows. These are not hardware encoders, though, so they drop frames from time to time, and they can create audio sync issues in the files they record.

Option 6: Dazzle USB crapfest. These things suck. Just don't, no matter how cheap they are. They also come with Pinnacle Studio, which is deeply buggy and completely capable of introducing audio sync problems no matter HOW you capped. Around $50.

Option 7: Conexant-based TV card. Really cheap, almost certainly the lowest quality caps. But really cheap. Most of these will only save to some kind of AVI format, not to MPEG, which means that you'll have files of staggering largeness, poor video quality, AND have to perform a multi-hour encoding process to turn the video into MPEG that can go on a DVD. Did I mention these things are cheap? Around $40.

Generic Video to .VOB conversion software:
Ulead Moviefactory works well, as does WinDVD Creator. Sonic MyDVD leaves me limp. Most true editing packages don't seem to have direct-to-DVD-format-project-saving yet. I imagine that will change very soon.

Generic Video to MPEG2 conversion:
TMPEGenc works pretty well.

Best outright DVD-copying programfor flat-out copies of used movies:
DVD Shrink. I can't believe that program is free. DVD Shrink + Netflix = a good thing.

DVD Burner: Dual Layers = more quality. Avoid S*ny. Or don't. I dunno, maybe you're into anal stretching or something. S*ny's Customer support sure is. "Hi, my name is Cindi, and after breaking your will with 20 more minutes of Air Supply's Greatest Hits on our 'hold' music, I'm gonna be your Top today!"

 

[Santilli]

Merc: Isn't Sony the only one out with a DL writer?

Costco has a 400 dollar unit that takes a VCR tape, and converts it to DVD, probably single layer.

I'll look at the ADS Pyro a bit more, but what I've found is kind of scary.
What,and how, do you converte DV into MPEG2?
Plextor I haven't looked at yet, but will.

s

 

[Pradeep]

Merc: Isn't Sony the only one out with a DL writer?

Newegg have the NEC 2510a in stock for $93 shipped. It's a DL writer.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-023&depa=0

There has been a bunch of 12x-16x burners announced at Computex over the last few days. However they all write at 2.4x to +R DL, so I think the NEC would be a great buy at this present time. Bear in mind that BestBuy stores currently sell DL discs for $30 for a 2 pack! I'm sure this will come down in time but at those prices you may as well buy a second copy of a movie.

 

[Fushigi]

You can always start with a dual-capable burner but use single-layer media and upgrade to dual when the media prices drop.

BTW, apparently there's a firmware upgrade for the NEC 2500 single-layer that'll make it do dual. Dunno if it's a hack or an official. 2500s can be had for $70ish. Personally, I'd pay the few extra $ for the 2510 just to ensure warranty coverage.

Also, for me my 4x burner is fast enough for the moment. No current desire to upgrade to an 8x or faster. Dual-layer would be nice, though, as I have over 300GB to organize & burn right now; DL would cut down on shelf-space.

 

[Jan Kivar]

Nec ND-2510A seems like a winner, if it's as identical to 2500 as they claim. Good media compatibility, cheap. ATM few local shops here are listing a lone LiteOn DL model for ~170€, whereas Nec is ~95€ only.

Is bit-setting an important feature? Nec doesn't support it out-ot-the-box, but there seems to be modded BIOS for 1300A which claims to have support. BIOSs for 2500A should be on the works also.

I think that Nec ND-2510A is a safe choice, even though the faster models are on Computex right now. What's the hurry?

Cheers,

Jan

 

[blakerwry]

I have an NEC2500 and it's an excelllent drive. Fast, quiet, great compatibility.

Bit setting firmware is available, but the feature is really only needed if you want to burn +r disks as -r or -rom and vise versa for compatibility with devices that only accept one type of media. It's something I've never used.

 

[Jan Kivar]

Bit setting firmware is available, but the feature is really only needed if you want to burn +r disks as -r or -rom and vise versa for compatibility with devices that only accept one type of media. It's something I've never used.

Thanks for the info, Blake.

Jan

 

[Pradeep]

NEC 2510A down to $87 now.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-021&depa=0

 

[timwhit]

Where is the dual layer media though?

 

[Santilli]

I found some notes that NEC does not approve of flashing their drives to go to dual layer.

They also are not very good when put in external firewire enclosures.
They say that's not supported, and there are issues.

I don't have links, just stuff from their website, and forums...

s

 

[Onomatopoeic]

If you can wait for SATA-2, it will have an official external connector and hot plug capability (no need to reboot) for SATA hard drives.

A 400 GB or a "cheap" 200 GB SATA-2 drive in an external chassis would be ideal for quick, effective, reliable backups and work as a data shuttle between computers as well.

 

[Pradeep]

At work we will soon be needing to ship several hundred GB of data from East to West coast. Thinking is that hard drives in removable trays would be the best bet. Any other suggestions? Tape would be cost prohibitive as each end would need some kind of LTO drive, and the media isn't much cheaper than HDDs. Internet is out as we are on RR "Business Class" (LOL) and that gives us something like 256kbit uploads.

 

[Mercutio]

Hard drives in trays are easily the fastest and possibly cheapest way to go. The man hours needed for optical media would probably be too high and the density just isn't there.

 

[.Nut]

...Thinking is that hard drives in removable trays would be the best bet. Any other suggestions?...

Yes, I've done exactly this before. It's a 100% viable approach, but you have to take precautions with how you transport it.

Basically, you M*U*S*T have a well-cushioned shipping case, a case that's essentially a little hardshell Anvil® type of flight case with about 7 ~ 8 cm of shock insulating foam inside. Also, it would be a good thing to re-format the hard drive after 1 or 2 round trips, just in case something happens to the media. A SATA drive in an SCA drive carrier will work. Otherwise, you could use a larger heavier USB2 external hard drive.

 

[Santilli]

MADE THE JUMP.

I need reliable storage of last years stuff, and I need it now.

I hooked a 160 GB Maxtor up as an internal ide backup, but it just is not my idea of a good solution. Whenever anything is being done on the ide drive, it takes lots of cpu, and makes the machine unenjoyable.

Ordered the 5 drive, Supermicro SCA/scsi hot swap bay. Total cost, 180.

I see lots of 80 pin scsi refurbs, or new, for reasonable prices, all the time.

I just don't see having to loose using the machine while doing a backup.

No fun.

Now if I can find some SCA drives at great prices...

s

 

[Pradeep]

Once you've gone 80 pin, there's no going back (well perhaps forward to whatever SATA2 is, perhaps they use the 80 pin connector?)