Bang for the buck in AMD's 64-bit CPUs

[ddrueding]

(prices from newegg)

AMD Opteron 140, 1MB L2 Cache (1.4GHz) - $175
AMD Athlon64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache (2Ghz) - $219
AMD Opteron 142, 1MB L2 Cache (1.6GHz) - $222
AMD Opteron 144, 1MB L2 Cache (1.8GHz) - $270

From what I know, these are the only "entry level" 64-bit CPUs out there.

I'd like to get a 64-bit system to use as my primary rig, but would like to wait for the prices to settle before getting a faster CPU. My main tasks aren't that intensive, the heaviest usage probably being gaming (all kinds, except solitare).

So is the relative performance of these CPUs roughly equivalent to their price? I can't remember this ever being true, which is why I ask

I'm also curious for basic server apps (I build quite a few of those). A good example would be a full-blown SBS2k3 install with 30 users on it. What about this application?

 

[Mercutio]

You don't need to go there, David. No reason whatsoever.

Yup, The Althon64s are fast but... they're fast. That's it. You're not going to do anything "64bit" until this spring at the earliest, unless you make a dramatic change in your opinion of Linux, and even at that you won't find out that things are faster in 64 bit, especially not for gaming.

Besides, aren't these chips all the soon-to-be EOL'd Socket 940? Second-gen x86-64 chips will be on 939, right?

Basic server apps live and die on network bandwidth, RAM and storage subsystems. Unless you're doing clustered rendering or weather modeling or DB queries with multiple inner joins or something, you aren't going to make an opteron do enough work to be worthwhile in "basic server task"-land.

And I know you know that.

 

[Mercutio]

One more thing: The 80386 was the first 32-bit x86 chip. It was made available to the public in 1988. The first 32-bit DOS-compatible, protected mode games were released in 1994.

I thnk it'll be a while before we see a 64bit game, other than (possibly) Doom3*.

*Carmack's stuff is usually very easily and quickly ported to 64-bit platforms.

 

[Pradeep]

I don't think socket 940 is going to kick the bucket, the difference is that socket 939 will allow use of non-ECC/registered memory or something like that. 940 will continue to be used for ECC/registered. Or single/dual channel memory. Or I could be completely wrong.

 

[LiamC]

Socket 754 seems to have the most limited lifespan - but AMD will need a price leader for some time to come - so maybe not.

Socket 940 is AMD's server platform, so any Opteron should work in current Socket 940 boards at least, though AMD has said that they will support the 940 pin FX (consumer) platform for at least until the end of 2004 and into 2005.

Socket 939 is the way of the future for AMD consumer systems - dual channel memory and unbufferred memory.

AMDZone has tests of the 3000+ (512KB L2 cache) versus the 3200+ (1024KB L2 cache), and as AMD's K7 and K8 are largely cache size agnostic (compared to Intel), the 3000+ doesn't loose too much to the 3200+ so it must be considered a "bargain". Whether the increased performance of the 64 platform justifies the higher cost over a Barton and nForce2 platform is another matter - they can be had real cheap.

For basic server use, the low latency memory subsystem is a boon - but this really depends on how you are going to load the server. Just file and print - get a faster disk system and any current proc will do (within reason). DB apps/frequently accessed "always on" mail server running on the server- go with the AMD64 (and fast disk of course).

0.05

 

[Buck]

Good analysis LiamC. For the end user, the Gigabyte GA-K8VT800M would be nice. Small form factor, quiet, and nice when combined with the an Athlon 64 3000+. The full size brother, GA-K8VT800, is nice too.

 

[ddrueding]

Yeah, I know the 64-bit aspect of it is pretty useless at this point (as was a 386's 32-bit capability) for these kinds of tasks. But from what I've seen, it's pretty darn fast @ 32-bit as well. And I do enjoy playing

AMDZone has tests of the 3000+ (512KB L2 cache) versus the 3200+ (1024KB L2 cache), and as AMD's K7 and K8 are largely cache size agnostic (compared to Intel), the 3000+ doesn't loose too much to the 3200+ so it must be considered a "bargain".

Thanks I'll have to check that out.

 

[freeborn]

One more thing: The 80386 was the first 32-bit x86 chip. It was made available to the public in 1988. The first 32-bit DOS-compatible, protected mode games were released in 1994.

I thnk it'll be a while before we see a 64bit game, other than (possibly) Doom3*.

*Carmack's stuff is usually very easily and quickly ported to 64-bit platforms.

At the Athlon 64 launch, Unreal Tournament 2004 64-bit was being demoed, so I expect it will be the first 64-bit game available.

Free

 

[Fushigi]

Just thought I'd mention that today's Best Buy ad has an eMachines Athlon64 3200+, 512MB RAM, 17" LCD, Radeon 9600, DVD/CD-RW for $1500.

 

[ddrueding]

Just thought I'd mention that today's Best Buy ad has an eMachines Athlon64 3200+, 512MB RAM, 17" LCD, Radeon 9600, DVD/CD-RW for $1500.

Wow, e-machines on the 64-bit bandwagon....that's pretty amazing.

 

[Buck]

So, now I'm thinking, maybe it is time for me to upgrade my 1400C Thunderbird to an Athlon 64 3000+.

Athlon 64 3000+
GA-K8VT800M
1 GB Memory
PA410210 Case
SP1614C

Hmmmm.

 

[CougTek]

Wait for more SiS755-based motherboards to arrive. For now, only ECS has one and typical ECS boards aren't very speedy and often not reliable. But the SiS755 is the fastest chipset for the Athlon64 platform yet. I'm sure GigaByte will release one and probably Asus too. Just wait a month and you'll save some cash on the motherboard while getting something marginally faster, with very possibly better IDE performances.

 

[Buck]

Wait for more SiS755-based motherboards to arrive. For now, only ECS has one and typical ECS boards aren't very speedy and often not reliable. But the SiS755 is the fastest chipset for the Athlon64 platform yet. I'm sure GigaByte will release one and probably Asus too. Just wait a month and you'll save some cash on the motherboard while getting something marginally faster, with very possibly better IDE performances.

How inexpensive do you expect the SIS755 based boards will be?

 

[Buck]

By the way, I just priced out a high end workstation from Dell. Xeon 3.2 GHz, Windows XP Professional, 1GB DDR 266, fancy keyboard, mouse, speakers, 19" LCD, 64MB Quadro Video, 120GB sATA HDD . . . after all was said and done, they want $4,453.00 for the whole kit n' kabootle. Hoolie Doolie! For that price, I can build a dual Opteron 240 system, with 2 GB DDR memory, and for a couple hundred dollars more, we can throw in 2 Samsung 192T monitors running off a P65 video card. For half the price, I can build a high end Athlon 64 3000+ system.

 

[Buck]

For more then $1,000.00 less than that Dell system, I can go with the overpriced Athlon 64 FX51 chip!

 

[ddrueding]

Yup, that's where Dell makes their money. They don't care about selling thousands of low-end/older designs at break-even or lower, so long as it wins them customers for the high-end/server market.

 

[ddrueding]

I just spec'd a Dell dual XEON 3.06 w/2GB RAM and 2x36GB 10k drives....

$4,600+, no OS...just the box.

I agree that for many people Dell's support makes it worthwhile...but I sure ain't one of 'em...

 

[Buck]

I just spec'd a Dell dual XEON 3.06 w/2GB RAM and 2x36GB 10k drives....

$4,600+, no OS...just the box.

I agree that for many people Dell's support makes it worthwhile...but I sure ain't one of 'em...

Dell's support is nice, but how can their support beat me? My customer's need help, I drive on over to their location - warranty or not.

 

[ddrueding]

I just spec'd a Dell dual XEON 3.06 w/2GB RAM and 2x36GB 10k drives....

$4,600+, no OS...just the box.

I agree that for many people Dell's support makes it worthwhile...but I sure ain't one of 'em...

Dell's support is nice, but how can their support beat me? My customer's need help, I drive on over to their location - warranty or not.

Indeed, I provide the same support. And considering I also handle all software installations and all software licencing, AND all user training...they have themselves a one-stop shop for everything. And I have agreements in place with other local contractors to "cover" for each other in bad times (like my current flu). I still get a cut of any hourly work that goes on at my client's sites.

 

[CougTek]

How inexpensive do you expect the SIS755 based boards will be?

The first ECS motherboard costs 80U$. I expect offerings from more reputable brands to cost about 10$ to 20$ more. I know that you'll tell me that this only matches the price of the KT880-based GigaByte board, but my answer will be that it will offer better performances at the same or slightly lower price.

 

[Buck]

I know that you'll tell me that this only matches the price of the KT880-based GigaByte board, but my answer will be that it will offer better performances at the same or slightly lower price.

You mind reader.