Beating Dell

[Tannin]

Honold, I haven't ever read those "deals" above. I've had this conversation at numerous times in several places and taken the trouble to document the details at those times. If you didn't believe my figures then, why would it be any different now? I have not the slightest intention of doing it all over again. In any case, it would be meaningless: this is a different market, with different components, and different customer requirements. You'd need to compare Dell prices in this market (whch you have not given) - and most important of all, it's not valid to take one particular unrepresentative combination and compare that. I could equally well take an item that we are doing at a special price this week and use my price on that to "prove" that Dell (or anyone else is "too dear".

The fact remains that in ... er .. 12 years of retailing I have never had a customer come in with a system deal from Dell/IBM/HP/Compaq/Acer/Olivettii/Amstrad/Commodore or any other vomit box maker that I couldn't beat without raising a sweat. And we are not even especially cheap! We are a mid-price dealer. There are plenty of places broadly similar to us that are 5% lower-priced than us, and some that are close to 10% lower. (IMO, their quality leaves something to be desired, and their service is no better than Dell's - but you get what you pay for. Except with vomit boxes, where in the vast majority of instances, you get over-priced, under-performing systems made from second-rate components. Who sold all those Quantum Bigfoots and those i815 chipset motherboards and those incredibly crappy software modems? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.)

 

[honold]

tannin, we're talking about entire systems here, not individual items. i can order a great deal from dell with a specific combination of components, and then add what i needed. you cannot touch those prices unless you were prepared to lose money on the deal.

if you haven't ever "read" the posts in the thread you have no right to respond to them.

 

[honold]

brand new Dimension 8300 Intel 875P chipset Desktop. Pentium 4-2.6Ghz/800Mhz Bus, 256MB Dual channel DDR 400 Memory/30GB 7200RPM HD, 48x CD, AGP 8x, 10/100 Ethernet, 6 months ISP, Integrated 5.1 channel audio, Free Office Small Business, XP Home $849 - auto $100 - $150 rebate = $599 shipped free.

Super high performance ATI Radeon 9800 128MB AGP video card with TVout and DVI costs only $110 more

just for you tannin, a requote from a system quote 2 days ago. you can feel free to go above it in features/components however you like, and i can buy components aftermarket to match - it will still be better bang for the buck.

office and xp alone costs $250, the cpu costs $220, the motherboard costs $150. that's already over $600us pricing against pricewatch.

 

[Tannin]

Excuse me! Could a moderator please delete all those illegal posts of mine?

I'll read those posts when there seems to be a reasonable chance that they are not yet another rehash of the same posts you made in another thread already. The "Dell = source of all value" argument didn't stand up against the commercial reality then, so there seems no reason to expect it to do any better now.

Specials? Complete systems, components, no problem. It applies both ways, doesnt make a great deal of difference.

 

[honold]

i'll take your lip flapping as a 'no, i cannot match those prices' if it's something i rehashed in another thread, where was your price quote then? where is it now?

today i actually passed on a pe600sc because i've seen better deals.

serverworks ddr/533 chipset board with 4x64bit 2x32bit pci and gigabit intel ethernet, 2.4/533 p4 cpu, 128mb ecc pc2100, wd400bb hdd, onboard video, keyboard/mouse, 1yr warranty - $360 with $100 rebate to make it $260 shipped.

wanna sell me something remotely close?

several months ago i got the same system with 2 wd800bbs for about $300.

i ended up buying an nec 1760nx-bk from dell instead - best price on pricewatch is $474.

NEC/MITSUBISHI
MultiSync LCD1760NX-BK 17-inch Black LCD Monitor Qty: 1 Unit Price: 501.95

Sub-Total $501.95

Discount -$139.29

Shipping $14.00

Shipping Discount -$14.00

Tax $15.32

Total Price $377.98


wanna sell me one of those instead?

seriously, your posts are completely worthless in this thread. the others are bringing up conversation-worthy stuff like debate over quality of warranty. i've got prices, real quotes, from this afternoon. take your pick on the server or the monitor. or don't, if you can't. in either case, please try to actually include substance in your next post.

 

[Pradeep]

Do all the P4 533 based 600SCs have the Serverworks mobo with gigabit ethernet? I can get the 2.4 for $399 today, with the $100 MIR to make $299+tax. I guess I should wait for one of the better deals on the 1600SC models.

 

[honold]

Do all the P4 533 based 600SCs have the Serverworks mobo with gigabit ethernet? I can get the 2.4 for $399 today, with the $100 MIR to make $299+tax. I guess I should wait for one of the better deals on the 1600SC models.

yeah. metal case, removable drive cage for 4 drives (no rails), 2 free 5 1/4 bays, single 80mm fan up front, single 120mm fan in back, low noise for a server

i've got a few 1600scs as well. the deals on those have been awesome, last one was a dual-capable xeon 2.4/533 with 2 73g 10k drives

 

[Pradeep]

Thanks honold.

Tony would have no probs competing with Dell in Australia, because they don't have the incredible deals that they run in the USA. Just have a look at the Software&Periphs site at www.dell.com.au It's pathetic.

In Aus the same config of 600sc is going for AUD$999, around US$666. No doubt many would consider that a sign of the devil :mrgrn:

 

[Howell]

honold, as I do not buy hardware often enough to visit the "deal" sites I'll have to ask your opinion.

Using the deal sites how feasable is it to buy 5-15 of the same system or one today and one tomorrow and one the next day?

In other words, pretend you are a network/location designer who does not actually build systems. You farm that work out to say Dell (through coupons and such if need be) or someone local like Tony.

Can you get the parts when you need them and in the quantities you need going soley through Dell? In your own words, what are the drawbacks.

 

[honold]

Using the deal sites how feasable is it to buy 5-15 of the same system or one today and one tomorrow and one the next day?

depends on the deal. many involve one-time coupons and/or rebates, so doing bulk is not an easy option (short of collecting coupons, using multiple addresses, etc). there are still plenty that involve instant rebates/discounts and volume discounts (e.g. additional $300 off any order over 2k, etc). for the most part, the truly exceptional deals are for single systems.

as for the one today/one later thing, it depends on the expiration. dell clearly states when coupons and drops/rebates expire, but there are also the more extreme short-lived ones (case in point: merc's $70 p4 2.4/533 with rdram) which arise out of unintended stacking of deals or outright pricing mistakes. they honor those, but they usually don't last long. most of the 'great' deals stay up for at least a few days.

In other words, pretend you are a network/location designer who does not actually build systems.

no pretending necessary!

You farm that work out to say Dell (through coupons and such if need be) or someone local like Tony. Can you get the parts when you need them and in the quantities you need going soley through Dell? In your own words, what are the drawbacks.

i only advocate the deal stuff for low budget people or businesses i'm more friendly with. i have been in situations where i suggested each employee individually buy a cheap pc with rebates, etc and expense it. most of the time i simply pass them on to a reasonable buy online and suggest they consider a lease for upgrade/tax purposes.

 

[honold]

forgot to address the last part, sorry

i wouldn't consider going through somebody local because of the fact that they can die, go out of business, decide to go into another business, etc and the fact that almost every business i work with already uses or would trust to use dell.

so, there aren't any drawbacks for me. i'm glad i don't build the systems myself for thin margins because i would have to support them. anytime they have a hardware problem, they sometimes call me, and if so i politely tell them to call dell.

all of my time spent is billable, so there are no support surprises. i don't get $x up front and then wonder how much time it will take out of my life over the next few years, and how much it works out to be for an hour after everything's said and done. i don't believe this holds any drawbacks for me. everything i do is billable, and when i finish, it's finished.

 

[honold]

i would like to observe that the 'can't beat dell under any circumstances' talk is specifically addressing singular systems, singular components. for businesses, i think it's closer, but dell wins because of the reliability of the company, competitive pricing (call a rep - they will discount, especially as you do more business with them), and leasing options.

 

[honold]

another thing heh

'for businesses' meaning business workstations, not servers. dell completely smokes mom&pop in that arena (see yesterday as an example).

 

[CougTek]

As far as I know, Dell's coupons are only valid in the States.

weird, have you tested?

Not long ago, Dell's canadian site, also deserving Québec, didn't even include a spot to write couppon codes. Now they do, but I admit I haven't tried since. Next time there's a super-duper deal, please post a link to the coupon combo so that I could try to include it with my order. In fact, my fake order, since I don't plan to buy another PC before this Fall. Still, I would like to know for sure if the coupons that make those Dell systems so attractive in Yankees land don't officially work here too.

 

[honold]

you could try the 15% + 15% thing that's on techbargains.com right now

200gb/8mb maxtor = $92, lite-on multi-dvd burner = $189, etc

 

[CougTek]

And many written coupons obviously exclude non-US residents. Why obviously? Take a look at the address form. City : ok. State : screwed. Zip : here, it's a postal code, not a zip (ex : G1Q 1Q9 instead of 66024).

So, Honold, please realize that when Tea, Time or myself write that Dell aren't as strong in the neighborhood as you shout all around like a school boy during recreation, well it's often the case. I'm not saying you're wrong. You do have a point...as long as your point concerns the States. I grant you, some of their deals are very hard to beat even without coupons. But a bleeding edge box for 70U$ from Dell outside US is IMO just a dream and nothing more. Dell without coupons and Dell with coupons are two different things for us to compete against.

I still hope online coupons will work on the canadian home page though. But I doubt it.

 

[honold]

So, Honold, please realize that when Tea, Time or myself write that Dell aren't as strong in the neighborhood as you shout all around like a school boy during recreation, well it's often the case.

gotcha. perhaps somebody should make a company to act as an in-between for international customers just because of us-only deals heh.

with regard to tannin's posts, his lame authoritative 'if you can't beat dell you suck' and 'don't go into retailing pcs' were speaking to me, understanding that i'm across the ocean. thus, he knows of the deals and still claims that it's beatable in the us. don't speak for all of the posters

 

[CougTek]

Meh, it works. Online coupons work on the canadian web site. Shit, if I only knew.

So does it mean I could have had the 500$ PowerEdge 1600C Doug spitted on in February with the two 73GB SCSI drives in and the ServerWorks motherboard? Why didn't you told me? ARRGHH!!! I hate you all! Oh, want a second, the place to enter the coupon numbers wasn't there in February on Dell's canadian page.

Now I'll have to lose even more time every day to browse techbargains.com, like if I had no better to do... Honold, you jerk, you just made my life more miserable.

 

[honold]

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/categories.cfm?catid=18

don't forget that too

really, it's only 5 minutes a day

i just bought a 256mb lexar jumpdrive for $40

 

[CougTek]

Correction, it doesn't work. I confused the 15% coupon with another promotion that reduces the price of notebooks depending on the price of the portable computer.

So no luck for outsiders. Dell's still beatable over here.

 

[honold]

MultiSync LCD1760NX-BK 17-inch Black LCD Monitor

1 $426.66 $426.66

36.7 GB 10000 rpm WD Raptor Enterprise Serial ATA Internal Hard Drive

1 $133.41 $133.41

256 MB USB JumpDrive 2.0 Pro

1 $65.17 $65.17
Sub-Total $625.24

Discounts -$120.36

Shipping1 $16.00

Shipping
Discount1 -$16.00

Tax1 $21.33

Total Price1 $526.21

and the jumpdrive has a $15 rebate

:O

 

[Tannin]

My point, Honold, is that:

(a) I have been beating Dell as a matter of routine for many, many years, and there ain't anything in the least difficult about that - amost anybody can beat Dell.

(b) I have documented this at considerable length on at least three, more probably about six occassions, either here or over at Storage Review.

Nevertheless, you keep returning to your pet obsession every few months, simply ignoring the evidence that was raised against it last time and pleading for "just one more re-trial".

Mate, I've got better things to do with my time. If you can't remember how comprehensively I (and numerous other contributors) demolished the "Dell is great value" myth, that's your problem. My time is shorter than it used to be and I don't participate in "is the earth flat?" threads either anymore. Not to the extent of proving it for the ninth time, anyway. Raise an interesting question, one that hasn't been thrashed out a dozen times over, one for which the answer isn't abundantly clear already, and I'll be delighted to particpate.

 

[honold]

Nevertheless, you keep returning to your pet obsession every few months

uh, i didn't start the thread

blah blah blah

beat the prices or shut up, okay?

 

[e_dawg]

Seems that there is a fundamental communication breakdown between you two...

Let me settle it for you guys (as Coug has already tried to do):

1. Dell is unbeatable in the US if and when you take advantage of the ridiculous amount of discounts possible with their stackable coupon system

2. Dell is beatable anywhere else except for the US as Tannin and company have proven over and over

(Believe me, I have tried the coupon thing at dell.ca every few months over the past couple years hoping that us Canadians would get a little bit of that coupon love that has been going around in the US... but alas, deep discounts are an American thing...)

3.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I didn't quite get your 3rd point, dawg.

 

[Handruin]

Well, if you're serious about not getting e_dawg's descriptive 3rd point...


The expression, "Beating a horse to death" comes to mind.

 

[EdwardK]

Lets hope that person in the picture holding the baseball bat is just not e_dawg :lol:

 

[e_dawg]

Doug, how's the TSX? Update us in the car thread.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

The expression, "Beating a horse to death" comes to mind.

Damn. :rnd:
Didn't know that.

 

[CougTek]

Lets hope that person in the picture holding the baseball bat is just not e_dawg :lol:

IIRC from the picture thread, e-dawg is from Asian origin (probably south-east, like Laos) and wear glasses. Forget the blond air bloke, who looks like a typical Ontario guy.

 

[fool]

The expression, "Beating a horse to death" comes to mind.

Beating a dead horse.
The expression is "Beating a dead horse".
[/pedantry below and beyond any conceivable need]

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Hanruin, the Englishman has spoken! :wink:

PS. And yes, I now recall fool's expression.

 

[Handruin]

That's what I meant...I'm losing my mind.

 

[Handruin]

Doug, how's the TSX? Update us in the car thread.

I picked up the car a couple of weeks ago. It took a month to arrive in the states. I've been having a blast with the navigation. I know it seems like a pointless option since mapquest is free...but it doesn't even compare.

I took a trip into Boston today (which I know squat about the roads there) and this thing worked like a champ even with all the construction.

I'm also happy with the gas mileage even after 600 miles I'm already getting 28 MPG for all around driving. It should go up once the car breaks in more.