Best 20" LCD display

[Adcadet]

As has been discussed here, I'm putting together a new computer sometime between late November and January. After seeing how nice it was to read on an LCD monitor at school, I decided that I really want an LCD. I currently run two ancient 19" monitors in 1280x1024. I think I'd like to replace both 19" CRTs with a single LCD, although I realize that I may want to keep a CRT on the side (yes, my desk is huge). I would love a 20" monitor or bigger, but I think ~$500 is my limit. The Dell UltraSharp 2007WFP is an obvious choice only because it's familiar, and the price seems reasonable at $373 right now. I do some light photowork, some gaming, some movie watching (so widescreen would be very nice) and a ton of reading on my monitor (full chapters from medical texts in a single sitting). I'm generally not a monitor snob, but I really like having a lot of screen real estate. I would also like it to work easily with Linux, although I suspect that's more of a graphics card issue. My next graphics card is likely to be an Nvidia card for better Linux support. What do you guys recommend?

 

[Mercutio]

I'd recommend a 4:3 monitor for any monitor you're going to be using for actual work. 16:9 = a ton of extra scrolling.

 

[Buck]

For the uses you outlined and desired budget, I would recommend the same Dell model. Outside of that recommendation and budget, there is the Samsung 214T, a basic 4:3 aspect ratio (1600 x 1200) full featured LCD. There is also the Samsung 215TW, which is wider with a 16:10 aspect ratio (1680 x 1050). Stepping up from that in size and budget, is the Samsung 244T 24" 16:10 aspect ratio (1920 x 1200) display. All three Samsung displays feature four-way adjustments and a neat feature called PIP or Picture-In-Picture. If those sizes don't fancy your taste, and you decide to blow your budget, then I would recommend the Samsung LN-S3296D 32" LCD display.

 

[ddrueding]

Seconded. Get a 19" 4:3 LCD if you are going to be working on it a lot. I have widescreen LCDs, but only use them on HTPCs.

 

[Adcadet]

For the uses you outlined and desired budget, I would recommend the same Dell model. Outside of that recommendation and budget, there is the Samsung 214T, a basic 4:3 aspect ratio (1600 x 1200) full featured LCD. There is also the Samsung 215TW, which is wider with a 16:10 aspect ratio (1680 x 1050). Stepping up from that in size and budget, is the Samsung 244T 24" 16:10 aspect ratio (1920 x 1200) display. All three Samsung displays feature four-way adjustments and a neat feature called PIP or Picture-In-Picture. If those sizes don't fancy your taste, and you decide to blow your budget, then I would recommend the Samsung LN-S3296D 32" LCD display.

That 32" Samsung won't just blow my budget, it will beat it, kick it when it's down, piss all over it, and then make crude jokes about my budget to other 32" monitors.

 

[Adcadet]

Why is the Dell 2007FP (1600x1200) $449 whereas the 2007WFP (1680x1050) $373.15? Damn Dell.

And is there any reason you guys are recommending 19" displays over 20" displays?

 

[Buck]

Why is the Dell 2007FP (1600x1200) $449 whereas the 2007WFP (1680x1050) $373.15? Damn Dell.

And is there any reason you guys are recommending 19" displays over 20" displays?

The 2007FP is a proper 20" diagonal measurement, hence the 1200 pixel height and 4:3 aspect ratio. The 2007WFP is 20" wide and not as tall as the regular FP model, hence the 1050 pixel height -- you're getting less vertical screen. You'll see the same price discrepency with the Samsung 214T and the 215TW for the same reason.

The reason for recommending 19" displays is that they are reasonably priced and use the user-friendly office-task 4:3 aspect ratio (more height).

 

[Mercutio]

You can probably find two budget 19" LCDs for the price of Dell's high end models.

I like Sceptre monitors a lot, for the money.

 

[Tannin]

I'd love to be able to make a recomendation, but everything these days is wide screen crap. Wish I knew of one. (Hint: I'd be typing this post on it if I did.)

 

[Adcadet]

Buck, do you particularly recommend Samsung monitors, or are those the ones your just most familiar with?

 

[Groltz]

Outside of that recommendation and budget, there is the Samsung 214T, a basic 4:3 aspect ratio (1600 x 1200) full featured LCD.

My home monitor is a 214T. I've been very happy with it in all aspects. It is a true S-PVA 8-bit panel. Some consider it too slow for gaming but I say they're full of crap. Currently playing "Prey" on it and the rendering is fantastic.

My 2¢

 

[Buck]

Buck, do you particularly recommend Samsung monitors, or are those the ones your just most familiar with?

I do recommend Samsung monitors most often if my customer's budget allows. If not, then I'll offer the AG Neovo 19" F-419 (R12) - a simple monitor with only tilt capability. Nonetheless, it has good picture quality and hits that 19" sweet spot with a native 1280 x 1024. I personally use Samung monitors and a previous generation of that 32" TV I mentioned. I also use a 1.5 year old 2001FP Dell monitor, which has good picture quality and doesn't give me any issues with Photoshop or Age of Empires III.

 

[Buck]

I'd love to be able to make a recomendation, but everything these days is wide screen crap. Wish I knew of one. (Hint: I'd be typing this post on it if I did.)

I think the 214T is the largest good quality 4:3 LCD you'll find.

My distributor has other brands, such as Hyundai, Advueu, AOC, Asus, AOpen, KDS, LG, Viewsonic, blah, blah, blah. AG Neovo, Samsung, and Hansol have worked well for me. I don't like retesting the waters every 6 months, especially if I have to pay return on a 15lb or 20lb item and the brands I like work perfectly. It is sort of like Samsung's hard drives.

 

[Adcadet]

My home monitor is a 214T. I've been very happy with it in all aspects. It is a true S-PVA 8-bit panel. Some consider it too slow for gaming but I say they're full of crap. Currently playing "Prey" on it and the rendering is fantastic.

My 2¢

What kind of response time is needed for gaming or action movies? The Dell 2007FP lists 16 ms, and the Samsung 214T lists 8 ms. I remember a number of years ago when LCDs fell below some proposed critical value and were deemed acceptable for gaming - was that 20 ms?

 

[Adcadet]

Any thoughts on the Samsung 204B? Looks like I can pick one up for about $300 after rebates. The 214t looks great but is over $600. Looks like the 214t is slightly bigger (still 1600x1200, but uses 0.27 mm pixels vs. 0.255) and the contrast is slightly better (900:1 vs. 800:1).

 

[Clocker]

I really like my 20" widescreen 2005FPW. The extra width is good for me because I can have a TV tuner window running on the right with my browser on the left. Depends on what you're using it for I guess.

C

 

[Clocker]

See attached image for how I use my layout...

 

[Clocker]

That didn't work so good.

Here's something bigger:

http://www.kevandshan.com/pics/Untitled-1.gif

Note the google search request. LOL Paris Hilton got DWI today. Ha ha!

 

[time]

I'd love to be able to make a recomendation, but everything these days is wide screen crap. Wish I knew of one. (Hint: I'd be typing this post on it if I did.)

In the extremely limited Oz market, I'd strongly recommend Fujitsu FA-19 (yes, I know Fujitsu sold their monitor business). Similar specs to Samsung, much better picture than AG Neovo. And I know you're not a believer, but DVI to boot.

Having said that, it's still only the 'enhanced' 16-bit color that we're stuck with down under, so it's no replacement for a good CRT. Yet I have one in front of me and am perfectly happy almost all of the time.

All of this is of no interest to Adcadet - the Fujitsu is a mere 1280x1024 19" monitor and probabky unavailable in the US anyway. Personally, I won't be happy until the display covers the wall(s).

 

[Handruin]

What kind of response time is needed for gaming or action movies? The Dell 2007FP lists 16 ms, and the Samsung 214T lists 8 ms. I remember a number of years ago when LCDs fell below some proposed critical value and were deemed acceptable for gaming - was that 20 ms?

16ms should be fine, but I have no experience with a 20ms LCD. I own two LCD's with 16ms response time and I have no problem with gaming (one of which is the Dell 2001FP). The problem I've found with the measurements is that each company has its own way of measuring the time. I don't know if by now they've all come to some agreement, but I believe some companies will measure the gray to gray response time vs. color to color. I believe the gray is faster and that's why you may see some LCD's with as low as 4 ms response... Hopefully some others will have more background on that information.

 

[Buck]

Any thoughts on the Samsung 204B? Looks like I can pick one up for about $300 after rebates. The 214t looks great but is over $600. Looks like the 214t is slightly bigger (still 1600x1200, but uses 0.27 mm pixels vs. 0.255) and the contrast is slightly better (900:1 vs. 800:1).

If you can get a 204B for roughly $300.00, I would second the recommendation. For that price, buy two.

 

[mubs]

Anyone know the difference between a 204B and a 204T? is it just cosmetic / color or is there a functional difference? Thanks.

 

[Mercutio]

Personally, I won't be happy until the display covers the wall(s).

That's why I keep buying projectors.

However, it's damned hard to get any work done on a projected screen. They aren't bright enough for text, and it's hard to set up a desk space to really make using your 3 meter^2 screen so that it's actually all readable, anyway.

Personally, I use the largest 4:3 monitor I can find and lots of virtual or remote desktop sessions. I'd rather have the extra space than bother with a second monitor attached to the same PC.

 

[Buck]

Anyone know the difference between a 204B and a 204T? is it just cosmetic / color or is there a functional difference? Thanks.

They have some interesting differences. The 204B is TCO '99, the 204T is TCO '03. Yet, the 204B uses almost half the amount of power during max operation. The 204T has a slightly wider viewing angle but 700:1 contrast ration, instead of 800:1. The 204T has more than twice the 'typical response time'. They both support the same resolution and have the same brightness. So, in the end, when it comes to office work and 2-D stuff, they are very similar but one is more power hungry. When it comes to 3-D stuff, there could easily be a difference because of the response time, and one will still consume almost twice as much power.

 

[CityK]

The 2007FP is a proper 20" diagonal measurement

They are all measured via the diagonal

The 2007WFP is 20" wide

The W does NOT indicate a 20 inch width. It indicates a Widescreen aspect ratio. As mentioned above, all monitors sizes are given by the diagonal measurement, and the 2007WFP is indeed a 20 inch diagonal (20.1 IIRC). Don't make me get all Pythagorean on you Buck

 

[Buck]

Don't make me get all Pythagorean on you Buck

Pythonkorean?

 

[CityK]

You know - that ancient Greek martial art where you try to implae your opponent with a right angle triangle

 

[P5-133XL]

I have found one very signifigent benefit of wide-screen 16:9 over conventional 4:3 and that is for word processing: One can easily see two complete pages side-by-side.

The other much less signifigent benefit is that it is easier to arrange multiple simultanous open windows so that little pieces are always showing and can be clicked to bring a specific window in the forefront.

A second less signifigent benefit is that it is easier to arrange the windows so that left handed desktop icons are always clickable.

 

[Adcadet]

They have some interesting differences. The 204B is TCO '99, the 204T is TCO '03. Yet, the 204B uses almost half the amount of power during max operation. The 204T has a slightly wider viewing angle but 700:1 contrast ration, instead of 800:1. The 204T has more than twice the 'typical response time'. They both support the same resolution and have the same brightness. So, in the end, when it comes to office work and 2-D stuff, they are very similar but one is more power hungry. When it comes to 3-D stuff, there could easily be a difference because of the response time, and one will still consume almost twice as much power.

The 204B lists a 5 ms "magic speed" response time - does this mean that magic on my screen refreshes at 5 ms? Or is that code for "not really 5 ms but we'll fudge a bit"? Is this the gray to gray refresh and not the color to color time? Is there any problems using the 204B for gaming?

And what is the TCO stuff all about? Power savings?

 

[Buck]

The 204B lists a 5 ms "magic speed" response time - does this mean that magic on my screen refreshes at 5 ms? Or is that code for "not really 5 ms but we'll fudge a bit"? Is this the gray to gray refresh and not the color to color time? Is there any problems using the 204B for gaming?

And what is the TCO stuff all about? Power savings?

The TCO rating is to meet that current standard for environment, ergonomics, usability, emission of electrical and magnetic fields, energy consumption and electrical and fire safety.

What type of gaming do you plan on doing? First person 3-D gaming?

 

[Adcadet]

Why is the Dell 2007FP (1600x1200) $449 whereas the 2007WFP (1680x1050) $373.15? Damn Dell.

And is there any reason you guys are recommending 19" displays over 20" displays?

Now the Dell 2007 FP is on sale for $381.65. It's still more expensive than the Samsung 204B which can be had for $300 after rebates. Is it worth it? The specs look less impressive.

 

[Adcadet]

The 204B lists a 5 ms "magic speed" response time - does this mean that magic on my screen refreshes at 5 ms? Or is that code for "not really 5 ms but we'll fudge a bit"? Is this the gray to gray refresh and not the color to color time? Is there any problems using the 204B for gaming?

And what is the TCO stuff all about? Power savings?

Sorry, I misread your post, Buck. "Twice the response time" is twice as bad, not twice as good.

 

[mubs]

Adcadet: Newer Dell monitors have been criticized for a variety of problems; proceed with caution.

Buck: thank you. In India Samsung sells:

19.0" SyncMaster 940B - 16.2 M colors, so methinks this is a lower bpp panel uke-l:

20.1" SyncMaster 204T :cooler:

21.3" SyncMaster 214T :drinka:

24.0" SyncMaster 244T :cheers:

Other choices would be IBM/Lenovo, HP, Sony, Acer, LG, none of which excite me. No Scptre or AG Neovo. Most don't even list specs on their web sites; what do they think we're buying, a bar of soap?

 

[MaxBurn]

Well I like my 204B. It replaced two monster NEC FE1250+ and a IBM P202 22/21" CRT's and I am not missing the dual monitor thing. I am loving the LCD sharpness, text is much sharper at the same resolution on similar size screens vs my old CRT's.

I do some FPS on it and I have never seen a difference between this and my previous CRT's so I think response time is a dead issue these days. I didn't have any stuck pixels at all, and frankly at 1600x1200 I was figuring there would be one or two. I especially like the dual input DVI and VGA, the flexibility is nice and I can see the benefit of DVI in the screen sharpness. In its defense though the sharpness problem on the VGA input is somewhat a KVM issue.

I also like the stand, very flexible for height/angle and you can turn the screen around and show someone on the other side of the desk like the screen was on a lazy susan. You can also turn the screen easily so you can have the traditional page layout, I can't remember but I think they included software to accomplish this resolution so you can type a full page print view text if you want.

Two problems with this screen I have noted:
When switching inputs on my KVM sometimes the screen will go "blurry" and a tap of the auto button brings it back. Also if I switch to another computer and back this will bring back the normal sharpness. Happens rather rare and is so easy to correct I don't care.

The next problem has to be a manufacturer defect. I have something that looks like a piece of tape coming into the screen view on the right between the panel and back light that is casting a shadow on the screen. This very slowly worked its way into view over my first couple months of ownership and then stopped. I was hoping that it would drop off and disappear but it looks like that isn't going to happen. Might have to help it with some canned air but I am afraid it will go to somewhere much more visible, right now it is just obscuring a little of the scroll bar on whatever I am working on. Suggestions?

 

[Adcadet]

Max - thanks for your comments. Very reassuring to hear your views on it. I'm very interested in the Samsung 204B now.

Would you guys recommend getting it through Newegg, or a local place that might (not sure, the place that carries it is someplace I only recently heard of - www.microcenter.com, apparently a national chain with a local store) let me inspect it first for dead pixels? Newegg will be cheaper (mostly due to no tax) vs. my local place by about $30.

 

[Clocker]

For only $30 difference, I think you are better off going with a local store.

I bet Microcenter will let you inspect first. You really should look at one in person before you buy, anyway, so just pick one up there if you like it. Just my $0.02.

 

[MaxBurn]

+2 on the local thing, I was totally prepared to return one or two with dead pixels but pleasantly surprised on the first try.

 

[Groltz]

Would you guys recommend getting it through Newegg...

NO!

Newegg's policy is:

Replacement or Refund for 8 or more dead pixels only

...which is pretty damned ugly.


I gladly paid quite a bit over Newegg's price to a shop that has a "Zero Dead Pixel Guarantee" (at least on monitors under 22", which the 214t is). Unfortunately they no longer carry the 214t and don't carry the 204B either. Linky

 

[Adcadet]

I decided to get the Samsung 904B.

I went to Microcenter, having high hopes. It seemed like it would be a nice combination of a computer specialty store and a large chain that can offer good prices. I found a bunch of sales guys who were less than helpful, and they were sold out. When I asked about their dead pixel policy I got a blank look from two of them, and after I explained my concerns they said "I don't know, go ask Nathan or customer support." I have no idea who Nathan is and they didn't offer any clues, and customer support had one hell of a line. Thanks guys, I'll pass.

I went home, used the Best Buy website to find the nearest store with the 204B in stock, and called. Talked to a guy who seemed to know what he was talking about ("Oh, the 204B? I'm pretty sure I've got a few of them, let me check . . . yeah, I've got 3."). He also explained that if I wasn't happy for any reason I could return it in 30 days without a restocking fee. I asked him to hold one for me, I grabbed an unused gift certificate I had laying around, and drove the 30 minutes up there. When I arrived a Best Buy worker in the computer area offered to grab the guy I talked with (I always prefer to stick with one person if I can to establish some report). He showed up, grabbed a box sitting under the desk with my name on it, and was happy to take it to Geek Squad to check for dead pixels. He also pointed out that him opening it would not void the warranty. I was shocked at that point at how helpful he was. Perhaps it's because I went to a Best Buy a bit outside of the city. He hooked it up at the Geek Squad (tech support) desk, looked at it for a few minutes, and pronounced it good to go. Strange....a Best Buy experience that was not painful to the core. I knew something had to be wrong.

I got home, removed my LG Studioworks 995E (the older of my two 19" CRTs) from the desk, dusted, and hooked up the Samsung 204B. It detected and installed just fine, except for one thing. My now secondary monitor, a Samsung 950p (19" CRT) seemed incredibly dark. Compared to the 204B it was just plain dull. Holy cow, I'm not sure I can use the two together there is such a brightness difference, even with the LCD turned down to 75% brightness. It doesn't help that the 950p's controls are freaking hard to use (no simple brightness adjustment). Maybe I should get a second 204B.

Then I downloaded and ran Dead Pixel Buddy. Oh oh. One dead or stuck on black pixel. Located off to the side. I hadn't noticed it in an hour of use, and since then I haven't noticed it. So far I'm not motivated to try swapping this display for a different one. If more appear in the next 30 days I'll consider it. But for now I'm very happy with my 204B.

 

[Tea]

Shhhhhh! Don't tell Tannin! (I just ordered a Samsung 214T)

(On Buck's recommendation, by the way. Time, I looked up the Fujitsu you mentioned but Ingram Micro don't stock it and I don't have any other Fujitsu supliers that I can think of.)

(I didn't ask the price of the Samsung, in case it seemed like too much.)

Next question, where am I going to hide it where he won't see it?