Best DVD Burner for less than $200.

[InFeRnO]

DVD Shrink will rip and recompress at the same time. Saves a little time to do it that way.

I just started using DVD shrink to rip DVD's for use in converstion to .avi. I used to use a conglomerate of apps to rip back in the day. I was wondering if you could elucidate why it is that I am unable to rip sound properly, or actually at all. The rip turns out high quality VOB's, but there is no sound at all. Just wondering if you knew of some setting that might need changing.

 

[flagreen]

DVD Shrink will rip and recompress at the same time. Saves a little time to do it that way.

I just started using DVD shrink to rip DVD's for use in converstion to .avi. I used to use a conglomerate of apps to rip back in the day. I was wondering if you could elucidate why it is that I am unable to rip sound properly, or actually at all. The rip turns out high quality VOB's, but there is no sound at all. Just wondering if you knew of some setting that might need changing.

Just be sure the Audio section on the right hand side of the window has the stream you want checked. I assume you can hear the audio when you play the DVD normally on your PC?

 

[InFeRnO]

DVD Shrink will rip and recompress at the same time. Saves a little time to do it that way.

I just started using DVD shrink to rip DVD's for use in converstion to .avi. I used to use a conglomerate of apps to rip back in the day. I was wondering if you could elucidate why it is that I am unable to rip sound properly, or actually at all. The rip turns out high quality VOB's, but there is no sound at all. Just wondering if you knew of some setting that might need changing.

Just be sure the Audio section on the right hand side of the window has the stream you want checked. I assume you can hear the audio when you play the DVD normally on your PC?

I figured it out...my AC3 decoder/encoder was a p.o.s. so I got the .70 codec and it worked fine. Just having a problem finding a good .avi splicer/paster.

 

[blakerwry]

virtualdub works well once you get used to cutting/pasting in it... It's free and deson't require that you recompress the video to cut/paste intoa final compilation.

 

[CityK]

In case you didn't catch any of the headlines during the week:

Forthcoming DVD burners

8x media coming to a store near you....soon

CK

 

[Jan Kivar]

In case you didn't catch any of the headlines during the week:

Forthcoming DVD burners

8x media coming to a store near you....soon

CK

Thanks, those were interesting.

Maintaining 16X DVD (roughly 21 MB/s) is something that screams for defragging before burn... Or a separate burning partition...

Cheers,

Jan

 

[timwhit]

I found a firmware for the Pioneer A06/106 that makes it region free and is supposed to improve ripping speeds. If anyone is interested here is the link. I installed it on my drive and it works perfectly. I didn't test the ripping speed yet though.

 

[timwhit]

The new firmware that I linked also works with the ripping speed. I am ripping something right now at about 5x and that is at the beginning of the disc (It's going up).

 

[Fushigi]

OK, so I got to open a Christmas present early. In addition to another 512MB RAM and a 160GB 7200RPM Samsung, my wife bought me the Pioneer 106 DVD burner. Basically all the tech toys on my list except an AIW card, which I already bought the other day. Happy Christmas! :santa:

After the Pioneer is up & running I'll check into the firmware flashes tim mentioned.

So, what's the best 4x media to use? I'll be burning predominantly data but may do the occasional straight DVD copy for use on a normal DVD player (Pioneer Elite DVL-91).

 

[Pradeep]

I find the Memorex 4x DVD+R in 25 pack spindles from Amazon.com currently for around $30 work fine. I assume the 4x DVD-R works well too.

 

[Handruin]

I bought a 50 pack of Memorex DVD-R 4x media for $60 and they seem to be fine with data. I haven't used them for video yet.

 

[ddrueding]

Vendor shirts are great. I wear them when gardening, painting, working on cars, helping people move, and in any other circumstance where clothing can get ruined.

Same here. I have a ton of T-Mobile shirts, thanks to my sister, and I like not having to worry if anything gets on them.

I have a whole box of "compu-surplus" t-shirts....they were advertising a free shirt with $100 purchanse, and I bought about $10,000 worth of stuff (used 4-way Proliants) and one of the boxes was full of these damn shirts...

 

[CityK]

After the Pioneer is up & running I'll check into the firmware flashes tim mentioned

As Tim's post is now a couple of months old, its quite possible newer firmware updates are available...both official Pioneer, and 3rd party hacks.

So, what's the best 4x media to use?

There is no one best media. The results with a specific media type in a one drive (and its associated firmware) will quite possibly be very different then that produced in a completely different burner/firmware combination. In fact, to provide an even more specific example, the difference between firmware revisions for a given drive/burner model can by itself account for vastly improved (or possibly even hindered) results seen with any particluar media.

Also be aware that "Memorex", "Maxell", "Fuji" etc., etc., aren't the actual manufacturers of the discs....they are just brand names. The real question, and item of imortance, is which media manufacturer produced those (insert Brand Label here) discs. The other thing to consider is that many of the brand name companies are not necessarily consistant with their choice of media provider ... indeed, many brands switch between the various media manufacturers quite regularly. So while one batch of (say) Memorex discs might contain media produced by (say) Ritek, another two months down the road could see those exactly same packaged Memorex brand discs utilizing media produced by (the hypothetical) Joe's No Frills Disc Manufacturing and Co.

----

So, to sum it up, I would search the optical-disc-centric user forums (such as CD-Freaks, CDR-Labs) to see what media (and under what various brand labels it sells as) produces the best results for your specific combination of drive and firmware.

CD-Freaks also has a collection of user submitted DVD media test results.

I believe that it is VCD forums who have a large database regarding the compatibility of various DVD -/+ discs with different set top DVD players.

 

[i]

... as long as you don't get one of the communist dain-bramaged also-locked-at-2x Lite-On "16x (but we really mean 2x)" drives, like I have.

Uh oh. I was a bit suspicious as to why NewEgg was selling Lite-On 16x DVD-ROM drives for $27.00 with free shipping last month.

I'd ask if this held true for the model XJ-HD166S units, but given my general luck, I'm sure I already have my answer.

 

[Fushigi]

I realize there aren't many manufacturers; just a lot of companies who buy whatever's cheapest that day & put their label on it. Beyond Ritek, who actually manufactures the discs?

Another question. My rig already has a LiteOn CD-RW and the bundled version of Nero (V. 5.5.8.0 bundled). Without paying to upgrade to the full Nero, will Nero work with both drives? By all rights I should be legally licensed to use Nero for either drive, but I'm wondering if the Pioneer-supplied Nero will overwrite the LiteOn-supplied Nero and cause Nero to only work for the Pioneer. Any thoughts before I just try it & see what happens?

 

[Tannin]

Hmmmm ... A good question, Fushigi. If I had one in stock, I'd try it out, but I don't. In fact, we have hardly sold any DVD burners at all, and I remain reluctant to start pushing them for one overwhelming reason: warranty.

Take any quality brand of optical drive: Mitsubishi, Lite-On, Panasonic, whatever you like. (I'll work in Oz dollars retail and from memory for the prices.)

CD-ROM: $40, 24 month warranty
CD burner: $80, 24 month warranty
DVD: $60, 24 month warranty
DVD burner: $300, 12 month warranty

What gives? Do the manufacturers know something we don't? Are DVD burners less reliable than other optical gear. There are two possibilities:

(a) Yes, they are unreliable. In that casse I don't want to sell them

(b) N, they work just fine and fail no more often than CD readers and the like - in which case I still don't want to sell them because I hate manufacturers that rip people off with substandard warranties.

-------------------------

Next question. I am a DVD-dummy. I have never owned one, not even a reader. (Woops, my laptop had a CD-DVD-CDRW drive, but I don't have (or plan to get) and DVD discs to put in it, only regular CDs. (If it was a DVD burner, that would be different: I could get two or three days' photography onto one disc.)

I have no plans to become a DVD expert. Hell, I don't even own a VCR, let alone a DVD, I haven't been to a movie for maybe five years, and I haven't watched TV since ... um ... since the Rugby World Cup in October. Moving pictures just ain't my thing, in other words.

Given that, the reality is that people will buy DVD burners from me more and more over the next year or so, especially now that the price has become vastly more reasonable and (I hope and expect) the warranty will go up to 24 months before too long. Not knowing anything about them, I'm inclined to stick with the brands that I know do good optical stuff. (Currently we use Lite-On CD burners and DVDs, Mitsubishi CD drives.)

If I buy Lite-ON DVD burners (because I trust my Lite-On wholesaler and they give great warranty service), are these close enough to best-of-breed that I can ignore the finer points?

PS: I don't trust Pioneer optical products, not since their slew of weirdo interface problems back in 32X and 40X CD reader days. I have easy access to Lite-On, Mitsubishi, Samsung, and BenQ/Acer/A-Open. Prefer to stay away from the BenQ/Acer/A-Open stuff if I can. Samsung is a big question mark: their DVD readers are good, their CD burners seem OK, their CD readers suck big time. Lite-On seems the best bet, or failing that Mitsubishi. Are either of these OK?

 

[Mercutio]

LiteOn in this case means the evil S-word; LiteOn drives and indeed about 3/4 the dual-format units on the market appear to be OEM'd S*ny drives.

I have gobs of Optorite (OEM'd evil) drives in service, a handfull of that which shall not be named, a LiteOn or two, and an I/O Magic drive that I just bought for $75.

Evil
S*ny
LiteOn
Optorite (some, at least)
NEC
Mitsumi
TDK

Pioneer
Teac
Asus
Optorite
Memorex


Ricoh
HP
MSI
I/O Magic

LG
AOpen
Benq

Those are my guesses anyway. The top list no longer fills me with warm fuzzies; the bottom two lists are pretty low my personal list as well, although it's tough to argue with $75 for a DVD writer.

 

[Tannin]

Are you saying to pick something from the second of the four lists?

 

[Tannin]

BTW, I do happen to know for certain that the TEAC and the Pioneer are the same drive, if that meand anything. I can probably only get the Pioneer out of them though, and I have a prejudice against Pioneers. Anything else aside, they don't come from the wholesalers we trust the most.

 

[Fushigi]

No VCR or DVD player? While I can't fault you for not watching TV as 99+% of it is dreck, there are some fine films out there. Check the Best Movie thread sometime.

I put Pioneer on my xmas wish list as the majority of people around the net seem to favor the Pioneer 105/106 drives and the Sony 5xx drives. While my dislike for Sony is not as close to a religious experience as Merc's, I still lean away from their products whenever possible. Plus, I've never personally had any bad experiences with Pioneer optical products. So, Pioneer it is. Given the choice, I'd go JVC if I could; I've also had great luck with their products and they have a factory repair center not 10 minutes from my house in case something does go wrong.

Anyway, barring any suggestions otherwise, I will attempt to install the Pioneer-bundled Nero in a different directory instead of over the LiteOn-bundled Nero. Maybe that'll work.

 

[CityK]

LiteOn in this case means the evil Sony-word; LiteOn drives and indeed about 3/4 the dual-format units on the market appear to be OEM'd S*ny drives.

Not true.

While the very first LiteOn DVD burner, the LDW-400D, was indeed a rebadged Sony 500A/X, LiteOn has gone on to produce three of its very own drives:

LDW-401S .... reviewed here and here
LDW-411S .... reviewed here
LDW-811S .... reviewed here

As for the other brands, there are plenty of other cases of rebadged Pioneers, Plextor (Sanyos).... Not a big deal really, and just an exact repeat of what we see for the media used for these drives - few manufacturers, many resellers.

As further to the past, present and future states of the LiteOn-Sony relationship, see here and here.

If I buy Lite-ON DVD burners (because I trust my Lite-On wholesaler and they give great warranty service), are these close enough to best-of-breed that I can ignore the finer points?

Yes.

Having dispelled LiteOn from Merc's evil list, I would stick with LiteOn for the following reasons:
1) Dirt Cheap
2) Release firmware (for most drives) fairly often. This is a very important point. In case the subtlety of my earlier comment to Fushigi ("the difference between firmware revisions for a given drive/burner model can by itself account for vastly improved (or possibly even hindered) results seen with any particluar media.") may have been missed, I'll illustrate the point with an absolute concrete example:

When the LiteOn 411S was released, it had a lot of trouble with DVD- media. Many people, in the optical-disc-centric user forums, were flaming away at LiteOn. But after a few firmware revisions, the problems have been rectified, and a lot of praise has since been heaped upon the drive. In fact, it is probably worthy to quote a bit from the CD-Freaks' review conclusion:

The out-of-the-box performance of this drive was not very good as there were a few serious DVD-R/RW writing issues present. But thankfully Lite-On released firmware FS0F that cured these problems and made the drive become a strong competitor to most other DVD-Writers. So if you have not already upgraded the firmware to version FS0F (or newer) we suggest that you do that to get the best experience with the drive......Excellent CD writing and bundle as well as good DVD-Writing, plus better specifications than most competitors at a lower price – what more do you want?

3) err, I was thinking of something else but forgot.


Another one you might want to consider Tony is the LG drives.

 

[CityK]

Beyond Ritek, who actually manufactures the discs?

Mitsubishi Chemical Co. (MCC), Leadata, TDK, Princo, Plasmon, Ricoh, Taiyo Yuden..... Just have a look through that link I provided earlier for some more.

Another question. My rig already has a LiteOn CD-RW and the bundled version of Nero (V. 5.5.8.0 bundled). Without paying to upgrade to the full Nero, will Nero work with both drives? By all rights I should be legally licensed to use Nero for either drive, but I'm wondering if the Pioneer-supplied Nero will overwrite the LiteOn-supplied Nero and cause Nero to only work for the Pioneer. Any thoughts before I just try it & see what happens?

And so, what was the outcome?

As a tertiary tale, I sold my LiteOn 48246S burner last month but had yet removed the older installation of Nero (that had come bundled with the 48246S) from my hdd when I installed the replacement drive, a LiteOn 48161H. The new drive worked just fine with the older drive's version of Nero, despite the fact that it states right on the installation CD that "this software will only work with the CD-recorder it came bundled with". Granted, in this case, it was a LiteOn-to-LiteOn upgrade, and also involved drives with almost identical burning characteristics at that, but I still wonder how much credence there is to those labels. Hmmm, I also never did a add/remove hardware when I took out the older burner....I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Oh well, doesn't matter, I later purged Nero from my life when I discovered burnatonce.

CK

 

[Fushigi]

Beyond Ritek, who actually manufactures the discs?

Mitsubishi Chemical Co. (MCC), Leadata, TDK, Princo, Plasmon, Ricoh, Taiyo Yuden..... Just have a look through that link I provided earlier for some more.

Another question. My rig already has a LiteOn CD-RW and the bundled version of Nero (V. 5.5.8.0 bundled). Without paying to upgrade to the full Nero, will Nero work with both drives? By all rights I should be legally licensed to use Nero for either drive, but I'm wondering if the Pioneer-supplied Nero will overwrite the LiteOn-supplied Nero and cause Nero to only work for the Pioneer. Any thoughts before I just try it & see what happens?

And so, what was the outcome?

As a tertiary tale, I sold my LiteOn 48246S burner last month but had yet removed the older installation of Nero (that had come bundled with the 48246S) from my hdd when I installed the replacement drive, a LiteOn 48161H. The new drive worked just fine with the older drive's version of Nero, despite the fact that it states right on the installation CD that "this software will only work with the CD-recorder it came bundled with". Granted, in this case, it was a LiteOn-to-LiteOn upgrade, and also involved drives with almost identical burning characteristics at that, but I still wonder how much credence there is to those labels. Hmmm, I also never did a add/remove hardware when I took out the older burner....I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Oh well, doesn't matter, I later purged Nero from my life when I discovered burnatonce.

CK

Thanks for the info. Obviously I've still got some reading to do. Anyway, I probably won't get the drive installed until later in the week. My wife's uncle is on a ventilator after a stroke and he's not expected to survive more than a day or so. It may be post-xmas before I have the opportunity to invest significant time on the upgrades.

 

[Fushigi]

My wife went to bed early and I have the week off so staying up late is not problem. The drives are now installed.

As to the Nero question, it simply upgraded to the version on the Pioneer CD (5.5.10.32). But it refuses to let me burn to the Pioneer drive and says basically it's only good for the LiteOn.

I've emailed Nero support.

For media I'm going to start with the Fujifilm DVD+R discs that are on sale at Best Buy this week.

 

[Buck]

How about the TEAC DV-W50?

 

[Fushigi]

You have an ‘OEM Bundled’ version of Nero that will only work with the model recorder it came with. We offer this option to our OEM's so that we can offer the software to the large OEM’s at a lower price.

If you wish to use your software with another drive you can order our Nero 6 upgrade serial number here: https://secure.nero.com/en/secure.asp

I think you missed what I was saying. I have two writeable drives, and each came with OEM versions of Nero. I am thus legally licensed to use Nero for both drives. However, based on the installation options (basically no options) presented, I can only use one drive.

Why should I be forced to pay for another version of the software when I am already licensed? All I want is for what I paid for to work.

I wouldn't mind if I have to have the software installed twice; i.e. once for each burner. That's a reasonable compromise. But there was no option to do so in the installation program.

I see on the Nero site that I can buy V6 for $50 (downloaded upgrade from OEM V5.x to full V6). But if I have to spend money to get this going, I doubt I'll be able to justify giving anything to Ahead.

 

[Tannin]

Grrrrrr......

This sort of stuff makes my blood boil.

Besides, after all these years of trying, you'd think the morons at Ahead would have been able to figure out a decent interface for Nero by now.

Not even close!

The click, wait, click again, wait again, click, swear and wait a bit longer routine Nero forces me to go through every single bloody time I finish a burn and just want to close the bastard down drives me stir-crazy - so bloody crazy that, believe it or not, I often avoid burning stuff on the Lite-On 52X drive that uses Nero/Nero Express and instead put the source disc in the Lite-On (using it purely as a reader) in order to burn with my ancient old 8X TEAC drive that, though very slow, used Easy CD Cremator. The fact that I actually put up with that notoriously bad Adaptec/Poxio product speaks volumes for Nero's design blunders, I think


Typical bloody Germans: brilliant at anything purely technological, hopeless at providing an interface to the human being. The Japanese are miles better at engineering for humans. (As witness the very elegant little burning program that came bundled with my Toshiba laptop.) In fact, so are the Koreans. My guess is that the Germans are too damn proud to believe that they have anything at all to learn from people with skin the wrong colour.

 

[Tannin]

Grrrrrr......

This sort of stuff makes my blood boil.

Besides, after all these years of trying, you'd think the morons at Ahead would have been able to figure out a decent interface for Nero by now.

Not even close!

The click, wait, click again, wait again, click, swear and wait a bit longer routine Nero forces me to go through every single bloody time I finish a burn and just want to close the bastard down drives me stir-crazy - so bloody crazy that, believe it or not, I often avoid burning stuff on the Lite-On 52X drive that uses Nero/Nero Express and instead put the source disc in the Lite-On (using it purely as a reader) in order to burn with my ancient old 8X TEAC drive that, though very slow, used Easy CD Cremator. The fact that I actually put up with that notoriously bad Adaptec/Poxio product speaks volumes for Nero's design blunders, I think


Typical bloody Germans: brilliant at anything purely technological, hopeless at providing an interface to the human being. The Japanese are miles better at engineering for humans. (As witness the very elegant little burning program that came bundled with my Toshiba laptop.) In fact, so are the Koreans. My guess is that the Germans are too damn proud to believe that they have anything at all to learn from people with skin the wrong colour.

A pox on them.

 

[Tannin]

Nero, Nero.

The user interface so bad I had to post it twice.

Or something ....

 

[Buck]

My guess is that the Germans are too damn proud to believe that they have anything at all to learn from people with skin the wrong colour.

Wow! So much prejudice towards Germans! By the way, Germans do not have a prejudice towards people with different skin color. Just towards those who are not German.

 

[Tannin]

It ain't prejudice, Buck: it's a hard-earned and honest dislike of German engineering, with many small causes and two main causes:

1: Once having owned a German car: superb engineering, appalling ergonomics. No way I'd buy another one like that.

2: Nero. No further explanaton necessary!

I have met any number of wonderful little shareware and freeware programs from Germany. Well, wonderfully effective, once you figure out how the hell you are supposed to navigate the terrible interface. Consider the much-improved but still stupid Ad-Aware interface as a very small example: tick to delete? Tick? I ask you!

Not a racial thing? I beleve you. Damnit, the Japanese (who have excellent human interface skills, as witness their cars) were not too proud to go to the Germans to learn how to build great engines and the English to learn about building quality suspension systems - and the Japanese are as racist as it's possible to get.

 

[ddrueding]

You realise, Tony, that Nero can make you wait an awful long time after burning @ 52x and still be faster than your 8x burner...

 

[Tannin]

Of course, Dave. But it nevertheless takes up a great deal more of my time. With Easy CD Cremator on the 8 speed, I say "burn" and walk away, do any of the 101 other jobs competing for my attention, come back, grab the burnt CD, shut down Cremator, and use the CD to do whatever it was I wanted it for in the first place. (Typically, install a driver on someone's machine thats too big to fit on floppy - we never plug customers' systems into our network, for obvious reasons.)

With Nero, I have to stand there waiting for it. All I want to do is close the app down because I'm finished with it, and the bastard makes me stand there waiting around for ages, clicking with the mouse from time to time, when I have urgent work to do. I regard that as unforgivably bad software design.

A pox on Nero!

 

[ddrueding]

It sounds like you need Windows XP

Take any files you wish and drag them to the cd-rom drive, then choose "burn" from the file menu. That's it.

 

[Handruin]

I agree with ya Tony. I like Nero, but I hate having to wait for the app after I burn a disc. I can't close the tool, I have to wait and be asked if I should save this image.

The tool tries to make use of a wizard, but I also feel shafted after using it…like I’m missing out on some important control. I’ve learned to accept how Nero’s interface works and I make the best of it. I’m presently using Nero 5.5 and have no desire to upgrade to 6.x at this time.

I like it better than XP's built in cd-r burning ability. I've had several hiccups with it while burning data cd's. Music has always been fine for me, but data gets wonky sometimes. I also hate how the built in XP cd-r burning has to cache the files to a temp location before you burn. (mostly apparent with large copies) I made the mistake of trying to write the CD before the temp was finished copying...another bloody cd dud.

 

[Tannin]

It sounds like you need Windows XP

Take any files you wish and drag them to the cd-rom drive, then choose "burn" from the file menu. That's it.

Yeah.

Complete with it trying to buggerise about enforcing DRM and copyrights that it doesn't understand and can't possibly get right. I will never run Windows XP. Nor, indeed, any version of Media Player later than the one that ships with Windows 2000.

 

[Tannin]

Oh, that simple, elegant CD burning utility I mentioned that ships with Toshiba laptops: it's called Drag 'n Drop CD & DVD.

Oh, and before anyone jumps in and says that MS doesn't have any cripples built in expressly to please their bum-chums over at the record companies, I don't believe you. Bluntly, I simply don't trust Microsoft anymore. Maybe there is still spyware/cripplesware in Windows, maybe they took it out after all the fuss a year or two ago. I haven't checked and I don't intend to: I don't have the time to buggerise about with crap like that. I buy a tool: I expect it to work. If I have to stuff about checking up on it all the time, I'll buy a different tool. Though I've bought a heap of MS product over the years (rather to my shame, I might add), I have not and will not buy XP or any subsequent product unless they undergo a serious attitude change. Step one is to get back the most fundamental of all business rules: customers matter more than anything else. If you aren't making an honest effort to provide your customers with the best possible product, you might last a few years more on momentum, but you are headed in one direction and one direction only: the scrap heap.

</rant>

 

[timwhit]

The Pioneeer drive rips DVDs faster, and is faster for audio extraction.
The Sony drive is twice as fast when used for burning CDs.

Either is good, but since I burn CDs a lot more often than extract audio, I'm glad I have Sony drives.

I was just looking at the beginning of this thread and came across this doosey of a post from Mercutio. Still happy to have that Sony drive? :wink:

 

[Tannin]

Let us all hope that it was not the Sony drive!

 

[Mercutio]

I had suspected the drive in question was going bad for a long time, but I couldn't get it to fail S*ny's diagnostic (which consists of writing about 10MB of data to a CD-RW then reading it back).

From a technical standpoint, I'd still rather have fast CD burning than fast audio extraction.

Oh yes, one other S*ny detail: I had to call them back, wade through another half hour of Holly Jolly hold time, take another stab at "troubleshooting" and then they issued an RMA.

I fully expected when I emailed a failure report with their diagnostic tool I'd get an autoresponse from them. Nay! Apparently their level one phone support guy (who can't issue an RMA) has to hand-hold me through troubleshooting steps as well, every time I call before I can be kicked up to someone who can actually do something.