Best speaker set for PC with coax for ~200U$

[CougTek]

Simple question, isn't it?

My old Altec Lansing ACS56 speaker set died last month, with a little help from my hammer (one of the rear satellites ended up being at the wrong place, wrong time), so now I need to find a replacement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but at least I make the economy roll.

Three of my four computers have digital audio outputs, so having a speaker set that supports it would be nice. My budget for this is 200U$ max (300$CDN). I mostly listen music and I might start watching DVDs on my systems, but I don't game much, if that can help you to define my audio profile. Audio kind is both classical and heavy metal.

There are a bunch of new THX-compliant speakers that came out on the shelves lately. I don't mind the certification. It's probably little more than marketing IMO.

I thought about the Creative MegaWorks 550 and the Logitech Z560, but the first lacks digital input and the second is being phased out by a lower quality replacement (Z5300 IIRC) that features overly amplified bass and weak middle ranges. Not interested.

I've been unimpressed by the last Altec Lansing set I've listened (251). The sound was quite muffled. But the 251 is pretty low-end, so maybe their more expensive sets are better, I don't know.

Suggestions?

 

[Mercutio]

Altec's THX marketing is bullshit. The newest 2.1 pair is not impressive AT ALL.

All in all I think I'd buy a lower-end set like a Logitech Z640s and save some cash - that's the set I resell to people who want 5.1 speakers - or pay the extra $50 for Z680s, which have a builtin DD/DTS/DPLII decoder. But by that price point, I try hard to steer people toward a real receiver.

Creative's S700 set doesn't do any sort of digital connection. Needless to say, this is about nine different kinds of retarded (designed for Audigy2 my aching ass). They cost about $80 more than they should. Creative's got a higher-end set out, but my general impression of Creative speakers is, if they're actually worthwhile, they get a Cambridge Soundworks label, so I wouldn't have high hopes there.

I'm not a fan of Klipsch, but the Ultra 5.1s seemed considerably nicer than whatever the heck it was that preceded it. Unfortunately, it's also WAY out of your price range.

I, uh, don't keep up very well with Altec Lansing.

 

[Santilli]

I like the Klipsch 4 speakers plus a sub. They were 250 new. Now you might be able to find a cheaper set some where, if you look.

s

 

[CougTek]

I can still buy the Logitech Z560 for ~250$CDN with taxes and shipping. But it's a 4.1 system without digital input. Or there is the newer Z680 (5.1 system with digital in) for an out-of-my-budget 400$CDN.

All in all I think I'd buy a lower-end set like a Logitech Z640s and save some cash - that's the set I resell to people who want 5.1 speakers - or pay the extra $50 for Z680s,...

You can get the Z680 for only 50U$ more than the Z640? Either your stores sell the Z640 at an outrageous price (unlikely) or you've found an incredible deal on the Z680. Newegg shows a difference of roughly +210$ between both, so I guess you might have confused some speaker set for another.

 

[mubs]

Amazon has the Logitech Z680 for $265 - $20 rebate [Exp 5/31] = $245 with free shipping (in USA?). See Ben's Bargains.

 

[Mercutio]

I meant, $50 more than you were planning to spend already, Coug, not that there's a $50 price difference between the two sets.

And, as usual, it's my opinion that even a low-end receiver and set of real speakers is better than crappy "premium" computer speakers.

 

[ddrueding]

Merc,

What reciever and speakers would you be looking at in the $200-$300 range? Stereo is fine (don't really want surround) and fidelity is more important than volume.

 

[Mercutio]

I'd look at a low-end Onkyo or Yamaha receiver (around $225 - $250) and an inexpensive set of Yamaha or Acoustic Research sub/sats (around $100 - $150).

Prepackaged 5.1 sets are very easy to find and are cheap on ebay, since lots of people buy them and upgrade.

 

[e_dawg]

Indeed, Merc's suggestion of a real stereo receiver and real (i.e., not computer) speakers gives you infinitely better sound than almost any PC speaker you can find, and this includes the "high end" PC speakers like Klipsch, top of the line Logitech, Midiland, Monsoon, possibly even Videologic/Sirocco, etc. Generally, PC speakers have atrocious sound quality.

If we're talking about maximizing sound quality vs dollars spent, nothing can beat headphones. If you don't mind wearing headphones (some people simply do not like it), you can spend a fraction of the price for the same quality of sound. Grado SR60's (arguably the best sonic value of all the headphones) cost ~C$130 in Canada and humiliate most speakers under C$500. And that's without using a decent headphone amp or external DAC.

If, however, you must have PC speakers, I suggest going with 2.1 only, and rejecting digital speakers with their cheapo internal DAC's (if you want to use your digital out, hook it up to a real external DAC, otherwise, any decent sound card like the M-Audio Revo 7.1, Terratec EWX, or even the Audigy as a last resort). AC97 onboard sound is serviceable (spend it on the best analog 2.1 speakers you can get first, and if you have extra $, then upgrade to a nice sound card).

The Monsoon PM-14 2.1 setup is the highest fidelity PC speaker that's not a Videologic/Sirocco (I also have the Klipsch 2.1's, which is decent, but a notch below). It needs a bit of equalization to sound its best, but you will be rewarded for your efforts. Every other PC speaker I have heard suffers from intolerable driver and enclosure resonance (usually any satellite with a plastic enclosure), colouring the sound to an extent no music lover could tolerate. The Monsoon's planar drivers and thin metal enclosures offer much less colouration than the usual crop of resonant plastic box satellites. I think it is under your $300 budget, too.

In Quebec, I think Audio Centre has excellent deals on psb speakers and Yamaha receivers several times a year. I went to their Laval depot for a clearance sale and got a psb sub/sat system and a Yamaha surround receiver for ~25% off (you can easily bargain with them during their clearance sales). Unfortunately, a Yamaha + psb combo 2-ch audio system usually costs ~C$500. At one of those clearance sales, you might be able to get it for just under C$400, but that's probably the best you can do. BTW, for speakers, you want to buy Canadian, because they really are a better value up here. Americans usually buy our speakers for almost the same price in US Dollars and still find them to be good value. We get ~20% discount relative to what you would buy them for in the US, which makes them an unbeatable value. psb is probably the most accessible and best value Canadian speaker in Quebec. I like Paradigm as well, but they are harder to find at good prices.

 

[Santilli]

How can you hook up a real amp amd speakers to your computer?

Please explain.

gs

 

[e_dawg]

Get a stereo mini 1/8" male to stereo RCA male (aka mini-to-RCA) patch cable at Radio Shack. Make sure it's a stereo model as opposed to mono. Plug the 1/8" end into the line out (preferred) or front speaker jack of your sound card. Plug the RCA end into the CD, Aux, or some other line level input of your receiver/amp. Connect your speakers to your receiver/amp. Enjoy.

 

[timwhit]

How can you hook up a real amp amd speakers to your computer?

Please explain.

gs

Even better, get a soundcard/motherboard with Toslink and connect that to your receiver's Toslink input.

 

[ddrueding]

My system currently has an onboard AC97 solution with a coaxial output. How much of the crappy sound will be passed along though that source?

 

[ddrueding]

Also, I'm currently running Klipsch 2.1. What would it take/cost to get an appreciable increase in quality?

 

[timwhit]

My system currently has an onboard AC97 solution with a coaxial output. How much of the crappy sound will be passed along though that source?

Coax passes a digital signal. I don't know if AC97 mangles that before it sends it out, but any good piece of audio equipment won't touch the digital signal. Get a good Onkyo receiver to decipher the digital sound.

I currently have a crappy Sony Receiver, it's about 5 or 6 years old now. It does DD 5.1 but no DTS which, I wish it had.

 

[e_dawg]

How can you hook up a real amp amd speakers to your computer?

Please explain.

gs

Even better, get a soundcard/motherboard with Toslink and connect that to your receiver's Toslink input.

That's a good idea, too, assuming you already have such a motherboard. I don't think I would personally limit my choice of motherboards by requiring a Toslink out when I could buy a nice soundcard instead.

However, a mobo with a real nForce SoundStorm APU on it (as opposed to the Realtek AL650 codec, which is found on something like 80% of nForce boards, especially the non-expensive ones) is actually a very good performer with Dolby Digital / AC-3 surround sound type stuff; I believe they can encode the digital out so that you can get decode full digital surround on your 5.1 receiver as well.

If you were going with a more music / 2-channel audio system instead, I would suggest an M-Audio Revo 7.1 instead. You can use its built-in 24/96 DAC, which is decent out of the box, and you can use its digital out to upgrade to an external DAC in the future as well.

 

[e_dawg]

Also, I'm currently running Klipsch 2.1. What would it take/cost to get an appreciable increase in quality?

The first things I would ask is how comfortable are you with headphones? Headphones is easily your best bet in terms of sonic bang for buck.

If you prefer listening to speakers, however, I would suggest using Winamp and getting a good parametric EQ like "Shibatch Super EQ". I have a .eq file I used for my Klipsch 2.1; you can use that as a starting point to flatten out the frequency response of the Klipsch. The bang for buck is infinite because that Winamp plug-in is free.

But there's really not much you can do to get a significant increase in quality without spending $$. A good sound card like the M-Audio Revo costs around $90 USD, but the difference will only be minor through PC speakers. In order to get a significant increase in quality, you need to make the move away from PC speakers and get into stereo (or headphone) gear. As Merc suggested, hit up eBay for a used Yamaha or Onkyo receiver around $150 US. Get some lower priced bookshelf speakers (Canadian or British as in psb, Paradigm, Energy, Wharfedale, Tannoy, B&W, KEF, Mission are generally your best bets) for $150 US as well. Some of the Polk stuff is decent for American bookshelf speakers, as is NHT (although NHT bookshelves in that price range lack bass and like to be used with a sub).

 

[timwhit]

I love my NHT 2.5i, but they are definately not bookshelf speakers. They discontinued them a few years ago, but you can still find good deals on them once in a while.

For instance: (too bad it has ended)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=3092812044&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

These used to retail for over $1000 when they were new. I paid around $800 for a used pair in 2000.

 

[timwhit]

Check out www.audiogon.com. There a people there selling a lot of high-end used audio gear. You can put in wanted ads too, if you know what you are looking for.

 

[ddrueding]

Unfortunatly headphones aren't an option. I'm quite often not the only person listening to the computer (GF/Friends).

I'm looking at either a Onkyo or Marantz reciever. A friend swears by Marantz, is it the Bose of the high-end world (ie very well marketed medioce equipment)?

 

[timwhit]

I'm not all that farmiliar with Marantz, but they are owned by Philips. I would also look at Harmon Kardon, they have some very nice equipment as well.

 

[Mercutio]

IMO, you get more "bang for the buck" with Onkyo or gen-u-ine Integra if you've got the cash. Marantz is good equipment - don't get me wrong, I just think it costs a little too much.

Think of Marantz receivers/amplifiers as Asus motherboards and you'll be on roughly the right track.

Bose is, well, there's nothing like Bose in the computer world. It's very possible that the $300 Creative Labs speaker set is nicer than anything Bose makes - even their highest-end speakers use shitty paper cones, and IIRC most Bose speakers omit significant portions of of the spectrum of frequency range that humans can hear.
Which would be a little like buying a 256MB DIMM and finding that, even though it works, every bit from 24MB - 64MB was bad.

There's a whole thread on why Bose sucks elsewhere on the computer forum.
Cripes PW was an idiot.

re: AC97 - EVERY SIGNAL that passes through an AC97 codec is upsampled to 48kHz before it's processed. Yes, that includes the digital stream. I don't think it includes AC3 if its directly output on a digital interface.
Regardless, AC97 is a bad thing if you're really interested in fidelity.

 

[e_dawg]

Unfortunatly headphones aren't an option. I'm quite often not the only person listening to the computer (GF/Friends).

I'm looking at either a Onkyo or Marantz reciever. A friend swears by Marantz, is it the Bose of the high-end world (ie very well marketed medioce equipment)?

Marantz is actually pretty good in that they are widely available yet a cut above the mass market stuff. I would put them roughly around the same level as Denon and harmon/kardon, which would be about the same or perhaps a notch above Yamaha and Onkyo, who are in turn a cut above Sony, Pioneer, etc. Since the "legendary" CD-63SE, Marantz's "SE/OSE" CD players have been acclaimed as one of the better mid-priced sonic values.

 

[e_dawg]

IMO, you get more "bang for the buck" with Onkyo or gen-u-ine Integra if you've got the cash. Marantz is good equipment - don't get me wrong, I just think it costs a little too much.

I think I would put Marantz in between regular Onkyo and Onkyo Integra in terms of performance. Perhaps closer to regular Onkyo depending on the model.

re: AC97 - EVERY SIGNAL that passes through an AC97 codec is upsampled to 48kHz before it's processed. Yes, that includes the digital stream. I don't think it includes AC3 if its directly output on a digital interface.
Regardless, AC97 is a bad thing if you're really interested in fidelity.

Thanks, Merc. That is important information to know. I thought SB Live was the only sound solution that got maligned for upsampling to 48 kHz. I guess nobody expects quality from AC97 so there wasn't much of an uproar over it.

 

[ddrueding]

So the first step in my quest for better sound will be do ditch the onboard sound. I was hoping that using the SPDIF connection to an external reciever would exorcise the evilness, but that isn't the case (thanks Merc).

So what sound card would best output a Digital Coax signal? (of course value is important). The Marantz reciever I was looking at was around $300. I'm torn between going for a "stereo only" reciever and something that will support 5.1/6.1/7.1

 

[CougTek]

Cripes PW was an idiot.

No idea why this sentence is in past time. I have the deep conviction that it still holds true nowadays.

I'm tempted by the Yamaha receiver and speakers set idea. But that would cost me at least 400U$ ; a serious investment for something that will mostly play Windows' beeps and Gnome/KDE's noises. I bought a Kenwood pre-amp two years ago for a family member (Christmas gift) and it does play nice, way better than any PC speakers I've heard. But together with the CD-ROM caroussel, it cost roughly 700$CDN too, way much more than I'm willing to spend now.

Still thinking...

 

[Mercutio]

So the first step in my quest for better sound will be do ditch the onboard sound. I was hoping that using the SPDIF connection to an external reciever would exorcise the evilness, but that isn't the case (thanks Merc).

I like the A7N8X for my multimedia needs. It's the only nforce2 board I've found that has integrated SPDIF (several others do TOSLink, but I prefer coax).

I know I keep saying this, but the only reason to do nforce2 is Soundstorm with a digital connection to an amplifier.

Stereo only is perfectly fine if you know your needs will never expand beyond CDs and Windows noises, but if you're thinking you might use your system to watch a DVD, or if you'd like to try ProLogicII or the Dolby Digital encoding of soundstorm (Which, by the way, is awesome), you'll want surround.

 

[Mercutio]

I somehow ended up with a 100W/ch Surround/DTS/DPL2 Pioneer receiver a while back - IIRC it was a Circuit City open box. Bought it for someone interested in an HTPC. It works (or it did when I tested it about a year ago), and it's just sitting in its box, gathering dust and cat hair, if anyone is interested in a starter unit.

Also, Coug, I made a conscious decision not to visit SR a while ago. For me, PW is nothing but a memory.

 

[Santilli]

I'm tempted by the Yamaha receiver and speakers set idea. But that would cost me at least 400U$ ; a serious investment for something that will mostly play Windows' beeps and Gnome/KDE's noises. I bought a Kenwood pre-amp two years ago for a family member (Christmas gift) and it does play nice, way better than any PC speakers I've heard. But together with the CD-ROM caroussel, it cost roughly 700$CDN too, way much more than I'm willing to spend now.

I really have to say that while I agree with about 99% of what's said here, for this kind of use, the Klipsch 2.1 5 speaker sets, running even off my AC97 onboard sound, is plenty for DVD's in my house. I've got a couple Philips PSC 706, and another, one step down, collecting dust. Seems to me these have great sound, but, and here's an irony, they aren't supported in many of the old games I have in my game box, running 98 SE. May have to go back to an older sound card, I happen to have laying around.

Are the Philips cards a good basis for digital output sound?

I'm wondering if one of the Philips cards, connected through a
digital connection, would be a better solution then the onboard sound of
the Supermicro mobo?

Been busy lately, trying to get rid of JAVA worms in XP, and moving video cards around. Matrox rules...
s

 

[CougTek]

Generally, PC speakers have atrocious sound quality.

Great to know. Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't have enough money for a real audio setup right now, so atrocious sound will be just fine.

If we're talking about maximizing sound quality vs dollars spent, nothing can beat headphones.

You bet that I can't beat headphones. That and anything else you can throw me. Bring it.

I can't stand wearing headphones. Sorry. Plus, I often listen to my "noise" while I train, so headphones are not the solution for me.

If, however, you must have PC speakers, ...

We're getting closer.

The Monsoon PM-14 2.1 setup is the highest fidelity PC speaker that's not a Videologic/Sirocco... I think it is under your $300 budget, too.

Couldn't find the PM-14, so I ended up buying the Monsoon MH-505 (5.1) instead. 239$ with taxes and shipping. I bought Monsoon speakers before, but for other people and I was very satisfied with the sound. I hope I'll be too with the MH-505.

In Quebec, I think Audio Centre has excellent deals on psb speakers and Yamaha receivers several times a year. I went to their Laval depot for a clearance sale and got a psb sub/sat system and a Yamaha surround receiver for ~25% off (you can easily bargain with them during their clearance sales).

There's an Audio Centre not far from where I used to live three years ago at St-Laurent, but I couldn't find their spot in Laval. Whatever, I'll visit them soon to see their stuff. I've visited PSB's website earlier this evening and their Image series seems to be the one I wouldn't be too pissed to own.

Thanks for the hints. I hope I'll like my speakers.

 

[Santilli]

Well, I'm listening to Klipsch 4 + woofer speakers, on the AC97 that came on my Supermicro motherboard. I would like it slightly louder, but, if it did that, I would be evicted.

It's pretty incredible, at about 75 percent volume, it maxes out the speakers, and, almost, my old ears.

The speakers are at about 40%, with WMP at about 90% sound is at the limits of my ears, or close. I'm very old, and have limited hearing.

s

 

[mubs]

I'm very old, and have limited hearing.

Liar. You're just past your puberty.

 

[Handruin]

My folks have a set of PSB speakers, and I've really enjoyed their sound. There is a place near me that sells PSB, and I've been tempted to go listen on occasions.

 

[ddrueding]

I'm tempted to bring take some of th audio gear from the other rooms and hook it up to my PC.


If I want loud, I can grab the 15" stage speakers and 1500W amp out of the garage. Too bad the baseline hum is louder than comfortable listening volume.

I guess I could take a pair of the Bose Acoustimass systems out of the studio, one for each channel. It would be good to see Merc for the 30 seconds or so before he bludgeoned me with the gold plated Maranz reciever.

We have some massive Ohm tower speakers in the livingroom that sound awesome and IIRC were massively expensive. My only concern would be fitting them in my office. I have no idea how good they actually are, looks like the company hasn't produced anything like them in some time.

 

[Santilli]

Liar. You're just past your puberty.

Guess I'm DD, like the kids I teach...

(Developmentaly delayed)