Budget upgrade challenge

[Fushigi]

OK, it'll do 166MHz x 13 (2171MHz; XP2700+ performance) and stay stable, but x13.5 generates STOPs in W2K. This is without nudging the voltage, so it should go higher with a little more voltage. Not sure when I'll have time to work on it.

- Fushigi

 

[mubs]

That's like a 50% overclock! Yikes! Good for you, Fushigi!

 

[Newtun]

OK, it'll do 166MHz x 13 (2171MHz; XP2700+ performance) and stay stable. . . . This is without nudging the voltage . . .

How pleasant for you! I guess it met the challenge, budgetarily as well.

I can't find too much online about the AU13, and I'd love to hear about someone getting to 200 MHz FSB before I get one. I E-mailed FIC, and they said "Yes, AU13+ does support AMD 200MHz FSB CPU but AU13 does not support." I can't find any references to AU13+ at all. Maybe I'll just wait for official 200 support.

 

[Newtun]

Looks like you're close to the FSB limit, Fushigi.

Rodney Reynolds (the 3D Game Man) couldn't get his AU13 above 175 MHz, if I heard right. (I couldn't get the video working on his review, though.)

So I guess I can give up my dream of AU13 @ 200 FSB.

But anyhow, how cool is that? Literally. What are your temps like at 166x13 with the Speeze?

 

[Fushigi]

56-57C when Folding is running. But keep in mind there's also an X-15 in there. I've no idea about idle temps; I don't let my systems go idle very often.

And it is about 6 or 7C lower than the Tbird 1.4 was.

- Fushigi

 

[Newtun]

Here's a link to a Nforcers HQ forum topic "Stop Grant Disconnect bit for nForce2 found!". This can produce lower temps, though possibly causing SoundStorm noise.

In another topic in the "BIOSTAR, FIC, Albatron" section, somebody posted a link claiming a AU13 running their FSB at 210 MHz. I believe the expression is "wOOt"!

 

[Fushigi]

OK, it'll do 166MHz x 13 (2171MHz; XP2700+ performance) and stay stable, but x13.5 generates STOPs in W2K. This is without nudging the voltage, so it should go higher with a little more voltage. Not sure when I'll have time to work on it.

I'm taking the week off so I played with it a little more today. It's now stable at 166Mhz x 13.5 at 1.7V (up from the default of 1.6). That puts it at 2250MHz and is the same as an XP2800+. It seemed to be stable at 1.675V, but I wasn't sure it would stay that way so I bumped it to 1.7.

Further attempts to hit 14.5 at as much as 1.75V were not stable and I don't want to push the voltage further, especially since I'm still using just basic cooling.

- Fushigi

 

[CougTek]

T'bred 1700+ are only 42U$ shipped at Newegg. But Newegg doesn't ship here. AAAAAARRGHH!!!

 

[Adcadet]

I thought I'd ask in this thread since this seems to be the place where the budget upgraders are at the moment. Since I've been a bit busy for the last 6 months, I've really fallen behind in my knowledge of current computer parts.

My wife finally broke down and admitted that her beloved computer is slow. As I usually do, I calmly explained that the heart of her computer, Sunshine, is really the HD, or rather the data on the hard drive, and that with just a little work, Sunshine can be made to feel like a zippy young lass once more (chip/mobo/ram upgrade at the minimum). She's running a P2-400 with 384 MB ram, a 3D Rage Pro, an old 5400 RPM Fireball, and a 75GXP. She runs (and likes) WinXP.

She mostly does "office" type stuff on her PC, and frequently edits pictures with Photoshop. Is her current graphics card sufficient, or might hold her back if she gets a modern motherboard/CPU/RAM?

First things firs: the motherboard. From what I've seen, it looks like the KT400 chipset is about equal to the nForce2. Any reason I should go with one over the other? I suppose a very integrated motherboard might be nice (cheaper). She's the type of person who runs her system until it is unbearably slow, so I doubt we'll ever upgrade this machine other than perhaps a new HD.

Next: the chip. I'm pretty sure I want an AMD system for her due to price. Any reason to insist on 333 MHz FSB? Any reason to insist on a Barton core?

And finally: memory. I'm thinking 512 MB is a good amount (memory is relatively cheap now). See above regarding speed.

Thanks all!
Adcadet

 

[Adcadet]

I thought I'd ask in this thread since this seems to be the place where the budget upgraders are at the moment. Since I've been a bit busy for the last 6 months, I've really fallen behind in my knowledge of current computer parts.

My wife finally broke down and admitted that her beloved computer is slow. As I usually do, I calmly explained that the heart of her computer, Sunshine, is really the HD, or rather the data on the hard drive, and that with just a little work, Sunshine can be made to feel like a zippy young lass once more (chip/mobo/ram upgrade at the minimum). She's running a P2-400 with 384 MB ram, a 3D Rage Pro, an old 5400 RPM Fireball, and a 75GXP. She runs (and likes) WinXP.

She mostly does "office" type stuff on her PC, and frequently edits pictures with Photoshop. Is her current graphics card sufficient, or might hold her back if she gets a modern motherboard/CPU/RAM?

First things firs: the motherboard. From what I've seen, it looks like the KT400 chipset is about equal to the nForce2. Any reason I should go with one over the other? I suppose a very integrated motherboard might be nice (cheaper). She's the type of person who runs her system until it is unbearably slow, so I doubt we'll ever upgrade this machine other than perhaps a new HD.

Next: the chip. I'm pretty sure I want an AMD system for her due to price. Any reason to insist on 333 MHz FSB? Any reason to insist on a Barton core?

And finally: memory. I'm thinking 512 MB is a good amount (memory is relatively cheap now). See above regarding speed.

Thanks all!
Adcadet

 

[blakerwry]

i don't see a problem with the current vid card. The only reason to get a bettwer one would be if doing 3D type work.

For a budget computer, sure go ahead and get onboard NIC and sound. I have no problems with either when it comes to "office" type work.

I'd simply get a 1700+, the barton core chips are not in the right stretch of the price curve yet.

As for a mobo, anything current seems fine to me.. if you really want the 400mHz (or 333mHz for that matter) compatibility then plop down the extra $50. But I think even a kt266a/kt333 or Nforce 1 based system would work fine.

 

[CougTek]

Office work means AMD. Photoshop, I don't remember, but logically, it should perform better with a Pentium 4 than with an Athlon XP. However, since she was able until recently to make her stuff on a lowly Pentium II 400MHz, any modern platform should be adequate for her requirements.

KT400 versus nForce2. I favor the nForce 2 because of the multipliers unlocking feature and better overall overclocking capabilities most motherboards base on this chipset have. This allows you to buy a cheaper Athlon XP with a lower rating and get more value out of it by overclocking it. KT400 aren't as overclocking-friendly as most nForce2 are. The few that are often are more expensive than the more basic nForce2-based boards. In your case, I would suggest either a Soltek SL-FRN2-L or an EPoX EP-8RDA+. The latter, especially, cost only 85$ shipped from Newegg today. I isn't perfect (glitches in sound pretty common), but at 85$, it's probably the best board out there.

If overclocking is out of question (if that's the case, you'll have to explain me why since all affordable Athlon XP overclock so well without problem), then there's always the GigaByte 7VAX or the newer KT400A-based 7VAX-A. The latter has been on my price list for at least three weeks (for a scant 115$CDN - 84U$), so it is certainly available at a lot of places in the US.

I would upgrade the graphic card if I were you. Nothing fancy, but something like a 70$ ATI card (a 9100 or a 9200, 64MB version) would be nice for her eyes I think.

Do not forget to upgrade at least the PSU too, as the one in her elder box surely isn't up to the task for a power-hungry new platform. Unless the cooling features of her old enclosure were a lot above-average for the time, replacing the whole box would be a safer advice. 60mm rear fan hole with tiny ventilation holes just isn't enough for a modern system.

 

[CougTek]

While browsing through a few online stores, I saw that Newegg still sells the same old enclosure my four years old Athlon 500MHz system nest in (on the right). No need to say that this old thing doesn't offer enough air flow for a modern system.

I suggested a new graphic card because the 2D is crisper than on an old 3D Rage Pro and hence, would improve her visual experience on her new system. However, if all she has is an old curved 15" CRT, forget the graphic card upgrade.

What's your budget BTW? 200$, 250$, 300$, 400$?

 

[Buck]

Going the original nForce route with the Asus A7N266-VM with an ATI Radeon 9000 64MB makes a great budget combo. You get LAN, Dolby Digital 5.1 Audio, and good video. You can use the onboard GeForce 2 graphics if you prefer, but I like the ATI hardware better. This type of setup has worked great for customer's who primarily use their system for MS Office software, Email, Internet surfing, music listening, and light Photoshop work. When I mention light Photoshop work, I mean photograph re-touching. Such as removing objects or blemishes, cropping sizes and re-sampling, sharpening images, and adding small artistic features, such as an inner glow. As a matter of fact, I have sold these same systems with ATI 7000 cards and the customers were very pleased with the video performance.

One important feature that you should think about is using a separate drive for your swap file, Photoshop does much better with this arrangement. For example, as Primary Master you could have your boot drive or main drive. Then as Secondary Master have a CD-RW and as Secondary Slave a smaller drive with a 1 GB partition for your swap file. This way, the main drive and the swap file drive can me accessed simultaneously. Windows likes this arrangement too. Many of the 4.3 and 8.4 GB used Fireballs I have, really come in handy for a swap file drive.

You should be able to get the motherboard, video card, and XP 1700+ for under $200.00. By the way, the Radeons are better and Graphics then the Rage Pros.

 

[Adcadet]

What's your budget BTW? 200$, 250$, 300$, 400$?

Well, as a medical student I'll be taking a ton out in loans, so the budget is whatever I'm willing to pay back in the future. From looking around I was hoping to keep it under $300.


Coug, you mentioned overclocking. I'm not really fond of OCing my wife's computer, but if there's a really safe way of doing it I see no problem. Is it possible to get on of the older 266 MHz FSB chips and run them at 333 (DDR) while lowering the multiplier? Are the current XPs unlocked, or will I have to get out a pencil?

 

[Fushigi]

Coug, you mentioned overclocking. I'm not really fond of OCing my wife's computer, but if there's a really safe way of doing it I see no problem. Is it possible to get on of the older 266 MHz FSB chips and run them at 333 (DDR) while lowering the multiplier? Are the current XPs unlocked, or will I have to get out a pencil?

You may want to re-read this thread from the top. I picked up the XP1700+ (133x11) and am reliably running it as a 2800+ (166x13.5) with just a minor voltage tweak. Without the voltage tweak it runs great as a 2700. Perfectly stable Folding 24x7.

No hardware mods or funky cooling; just selected the multipliers from the BIOS.

And, most important, pretty darn cheap. Your $300ish budget would get CPU, HSF, mobo, 512MB PC2700, and probably pretty much everything else you want with change left over. The only 'gotcha' from my purchase was the mobo required the extra 4 pin power plug and my old PSU didn't have one.

- Fushigi

 

[CougTek]

Overclocking the lower rating Athlon XP IS safe as long as you don't boost the Vcore over ~1.75V. Target should be around 2.25GHz, often more.

As for your budget system :

Soltek SL-75MRN-L @ Newegg : 96$ shipped
Athlon XP 1700+ @ Newegg : 44$ shipped
Speeze MicroFlow II @ Newegg : 14$ shipped (9$ + 5$ shipping)
2 x 256MB PC2700 Cas 2.5 from Kingston or Corsair : 64$-66$ shipped
A good PSU & enclosure : ~70$
____________________________________________________________
~290$

The motherboard includes integrated GeFroce 4Mx-like graphics. In order to fit within 300$, you have to resort to integrated graphic or else, opt for a motherboard with an older, slower chipset and combine it to a low-end Radeon or GeFarce 4MX/FX 5200 card.

For the case, the Antec SLK3700AMB would be nice, especially at ~68$

 

[Mercutio]

I'd suggest something like a Shuttle AK39N (vanilla KT400) instead of Coug's Soltek. It's probably $25 cheaper.

 

[CougTek]

I'd suggest something like a Shuttle AK39N (vanilla KT400) instead of Coug's Soltek. It's probably $25 cheaper.

...but doesn't include graphics. So if he wants a new graphic card, he's going to spend more at the end.

 

[Mercutio]

I don't see much need to upgrade from a Rage Pro for this situation.

 

[Adcadet]

I'm torn beteween a nForce 2 with onboard LAN, sound, and video, and a vanilla alternative. If I go with a vanilla board, what sound card should I get?

 

[Adcadet]

oh, what about a case and power supply. A local place that I mostly trust has a decent looking case and power supply for $35 (here http://www.tranmicro.com/case_ps.htm). Any reason I should not go with this case?

 

[Adcadet]

one more thing: we (I) won't have time to build this for probably another month, maybe two. Any reason to hold off? I know somebody told Clocker to buy the memory now....is that still true today (June 3rd)?

 

[Mercutio]

I'm torn beteween a nForce 2 with onboard LAN, sound, and video, and a vanilla alternative. If I go with a vanilla board, what sound card should I get?

I'm not even sure you can get a motherboard without sound these days. The RealTek ACL650 that comes on lots of VIA boards works pretty well for almost everything a typical desktop user might want.

I've never heard of "Remington" computer chassis. Premier is listed on your linked site at $50. Newegg will ship you one for $30ish. Premier cases have fairly cheap PSUs and build quality I'd call "tolerable" on a good day. I think I'd stay away from whatever your guy is stocking for less than Premier.

RAM prices seem to be trending upwards. I don't know where they'll be in 2 months, but right now it looks like prices are climbing.

 

[Fushigi]

I thought I'd add a little to this. On my recommendation a friend picked up another NewEgg XP1700+ .. it's rated as a 2700+ and is running fine at that speed. He opted for the 'expensive' $9 Speeze, 1GB DDR400, and a Gigabyte GA-7N400-L1. Needless to say it rather trashes the Dell P2-350/384MB it replaces.

But now I've got another box to build. My niece is off to college in a couple of months and needs a decent PC. She was going to buy one herself but is saddled with some car repairs thanks to a vandal. I'm leaning towards the XP1700/etc. solution but my brother, who is helping pay for it, is leaning towards a Dell/HP deal. This does need to be a complete system including monitor & printer. Software, I believe she can swing WXP + OXP from the university pretty cheap.

- Fushigi

 

[Fushigi]

OK, the cooling fan on my wife's Athlon 800 was dying. Couldn't find a 40mm fan at Microcenter or CompUSA. Fry's opened yesterday so I figured I'd try 'em. They had the fan for $10 but I started thinking about it and said screw it and decided I'd upgrade the CPU. Which of course meant a new mobo, CPU, and HSF. Because the new mobo supposedly only does AGP 4x/8x and the old card was 2x, I picked up a new vid card as well. And, to edge closer to the fully legit side of the house I picked up an OEM XP Pro license to replace her illegit copy of W98. Maybe I should have stuck with the fan...

Old specs:
Asus K7V, Athlon Classic 800MHz, 512MB PC100, GeForce2, Win98FE

New specs:
Shuttle AN35N-Ultra, $65
AMD Barton 2600+, $95
ThermalTake Silent Boost HSF, $30
PNY GeForce MX440, $30
256MB PC2100, (in stock)
W98 or XPPro; undecided, $160 for the XPPro license

OK, the PC2100 is a bit of a cop out, but I already had it laying around gathering dust and I was already spending a nice chunk of change on the rest of the upgrade. If it prooves to be a drag on performance I'll nab 512MB PC2700 from my rig and use it in hers.

The prices can mostly be beaten a little bit at NewEgg but the instant gratification thing is worth the difference. Overall, NewEgg would have been around $30 cheaper (not including any shipping charges). MicroCenter would have been more expensive. Overall, I'll give Fry's a B+ for pricing and for having boatloads of options in stock, including at least 30 different mobos from all the regular names.

Unchanged specs:
LSI Logic U160 card with Quantum Atlas 10K II 36GB
300W PSU that came with the Enlight 7237(IIRC) case.
LiteOn 52x CD-RW, Toshiba DVD-ROM
Kbd, Mouse, POS speakers
Samsung 15" LCD

The PSU may get swapped out if I can't find an adapter to give me the %^&$ P4 ATX extra power line the mobo requires and the PSU lacks.

Other than the extra performance, she'll be upgrading to USB2. LAN doesn't matter as she's on 802.11b at the moment (will move her to SuperG later on). The upgrade should be a decent bit quieter as the CPU fan is going from a 5500RPM 40mm job to a 2450RPM 80mm unit, the graphics card is passively cooled, and the mobo chipset is passively cooled. If I have to replace the PSU I'll opt for a quieter unit there as well.

I'm not sure if I'll even plug in the case fan. I'm also not sure if I'll try to OC it (how much can Barton's be OCed?). If I do OC, then the case fan will definitely be used; may look into a quieter one there as well.

This PC is in a guest bedroom so efforts to reduce the noice should be met with approval. Although I'm not dropping her to ATA to eliminate the SCSI drone.

The base assembly is done except for the power connectors since I may be replacing the PSU. I should be powering it up tonight.

Merc - The Fry's is at the intersection of I88 and 355. Exit 88 to 355 north and take the first exit, Butterfield Rd. Right (east) on Butterfield to the first light, Finley. Right on Finley and look for the sign about .3 miles down. It's just a minute or so away from the CompUSA we met at.

 

[Mercutio]

I shall make a Pilgrimage there this weekend.

 

[Santilli]

Adacadet:

That's the same machine specs that we have in the other room.

My GF uses it all the time for office work, and has no problems with it.

I've thought about the processor upgrade, going with a 1.2-4 ghz
from that upgrade company, for 100-120 bucks, Powerleap, but everytime I do something with her machine, she gets mad.

http://www.powerleap.com/PL-iP3T.html


If she's running XP, a bit more ram would be nice. Don't know the slots on that mobo, or the cost.

One thing no one is mentioning about the Asus a7m266 is it only has two memory slots, so ram can be expensive. I like 1 gig for XP, and apps, but would like to try two gigs.



First thing I would do is pick up an old, Matrox card, pretty much the cheapest I could find, like the G550, or 400 series, and install that. Newegg had refurbs for about 50 bucks, and they have been tested. :excl:


Pricewatch has pulls from servers, for the g400-g450 for as little as 28 dollars. These cards are fantastic for office work, and everyday she looks at the screen, she will think what a wonderful guy you are.



s

 

[Santilli]

Forgot to mention that this machine is a Dell, with the BX440 chipset, IIRC.
I LOVE this chipset. It's VERY fast, and works much better then my Asus
A7m266, considering the other components involved, the speed is from the chipset, not the other stuff in this machine. I intend to run her computer till it dies. It's already 4, going on 5, and, if for some reason I need to increase speed, I may either up the ram, unlikely since I don't think the motherboard will address more then 768 mb of ram, or more likely, go with the PowerLeap processor.

s