Chrysler's Pentastar 3.6L V6 engine

[CougTek]

My car is going to let me down sooner than later. It's passed 200,000Km and the engine has been noisy for the last half-year at least. I don't expect it to last another two years, so I'm starting to look for a new vehicle. My finances are precarious these days and therefore, the vehicles I would prefer to buy are financially out of my reach.

While browsing the local car-oriented web sites, I noticed that Dodge offers the Grand Caravan for only 21000$. That's with their newer V6 engine, not one of the anemic old 3.3L or 3.8L they used to put in their minivan up to last year. The new Pentastar 3.6L V6 has impressive specifications on paper : 283hp, 10.3L/100Km average fuel consumption(7.9L highway/12.2 city). While 10.3L/100Km is a tad over what I want my next vehicle to consume, giving the size of a Grand Caravan, it's reasonable. Is it me or this is one of the very good engines available in an affordable vehicle right now?

Of course, since it's Dodge/Chrysler, the transmission is going to be so-so. Still, it packs a lot of features for the small price tag. I'm waiting for the 2011 NHTSA results to pop in and if they are good, the Grand Caravan will be a strong contender for the spot on my driveway.

Other minivans are ~30000$, so is the Subaru Outback I would really like to drive. I have too much testosterone to drive a Nissan Cube or a Kia Soul. The Honda Element drinks almost as much as the Grand Caravan (or so I read) and is downright ugly. No offense to Merc, taste cannot be discussed.

 

[Mercutio]

The Element has been discontinued, so clearly it didn't have many fans at Honda to begin with. And yes, it looks like a toaster, but it's an incredibly practical vehicle.

 

[LunarMist]

I have too much testosterone to drive a Nissan Cube or a Kia Soul.

Reduce the frequency of application.

 

[ddrueding]

Just a little more would get you into a Golf Wagon, with much better fuel economy. It is less powerful, but it weighs much less and has a much better transmission, so you may actually be ahead off the lights. Not to mention better build quality, better handling, better NVH, and better resale value when you can afford to get the WRX.

 

[mubs]

Even if you have to stretch, you're better off buying a vehicle with better mileage. Fuel will be a recurring cost that adds up over time, and the price of it will only go one way: up.

 

[BingBangBop]

My car is going to let me down sooner than later. It's passed 200,000Km and the engine has been noisy for the last half-year at least. I don't expect it to last another two years, so I'm starting to look for a new vehicle. My finances are precarious these days and therefore, the vehicles I would prefer to buy are financially out of my reach.

My there is a lot of speculation here. First, when your finances are precarious, is not the time to shop for a big purchase unless forced. Most people wouldn't consider a noise to be forcing unlike a dead motor. A purchase delayed is money saved! Even if the car does die in two years, that's quite a while to allow your finances to stabilize.

There are a lot of options still. First spend some money to find out the engine problem. Who knows, it may be inexpensively repaired. Modern cars last longer than historically so it makes more financial sense to repair for you are likely to get more use of the repair. Even if it is an expensive repair, it may be significantly better, in the short term, to actually make the repair than put yourself in a even more precarious state by buying a new car.

The there is the fact that people that can't afford a new car, buy used. It is often cheaper to pay occasional repair bills than a high monthly payment.

 

[Stereodude]

Just a little more would get you into a Golf Wagon, with much better fuel economy. It is less powerful, but it weighs much less and has a much better transmission, so you may actually be ahead off the lights. Not to mention better build quality, better handling, better NVH, and better resale value when you can afford to get the WRX.

Golf wagon? :scratch: Do you mean a Jetta Sport Wagon?

 

[Bozo]

A Scion Xb, ~$17,000 US, 23-28 MPG.

 

[time]

Even if you have to stretch, you're better off buying a vehicle with better mileage. Fuel will be a recurring cost that adds up over time, and the price of it will only go one way: up.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Unless you're doing significant highway diving, just avoid 6-cylinder cars altogether (this is from someone who has owned two 8-cylinder and three 6-cylinder cars), because resale will suck and the pump will bite you in the wallet every time you visit. Not to mention increased costs for tires, oil and a bunch of other stuff.

But they're exactly what you want if you need a 'temporary' cheap used car.

In CougTek's position, I'd also give Europeans a wide berth - too much cost and hassle for maintenance once they're out of warranty.

 

[CougTek]

I was not planning on buying a new vehicle tomorrow (since it'll be Sunday ;-) ). I'm simply starting to look for options for a replacement when the time comes to change.

I haven't thought about the Scion Xb. Scion has only been available here for a month or two so I forgot it was an option. Thanks for mentioning it.

Regarding the Jetta/Golf, I don't know if it's also the case with the wagon, but the new generation is supposed to be a notch below the previous generation. Car people here say that its build quality and overall experience has worsen instead of improving. It's cheaper to get one now, but I'm not convinced about that built-in-Mexico quality. I'll pass on it.

 

[CougTek]

Oh and if I decide not to go with a minivan, I'll probably opt for a Chevy Cruze Eco. It costs the same amount as the Grand Caravan and it got excellent results in the 2011 NHTSA impact tests. Fuel economy is excellent too. It doesn't nearly have the same amount of interior space though. So that's my dilemna, interior space or fuel economy. I'll see when the car gives up for good.

 

[LunarMist]

I was not planning on buying a new vehicle tomorrow (since it'll be Sunday ;-) ).

In the US they probably sell more cars on Sundays than most other days.

 

[Stereodude]

In the US they probably sell more cars on Sundays than most other days.

Not sure where in the US you live, but around here all the dealerships are closed on Sundays.

 

[Stereodude]

Getting rid of a car that's only problem is less than ideal fuel economy for a new one that gets better fuel economy rarely makes sense. You can buy a lot of gas for the price of new car.

I'm also unsure how a car with a V-6 will end up costing more on tires, oil, and other stuff. If you can afford it, buy what makes you happy, not what other people think you should buy.

 

[CougTek]

Getting rid of a car that's only problem is less than ideal fuel economy for a new one that gets better fuel economy rarely makes sense.

Are you on something?

I'm also unsure how a car with a V-6 will end up costing more on tires, oil, and other stuff.

A V6 engine puts more weight on the front wheels and therefore wears the tires faster. A vehicle with a 6-cylinders is also generally heavier than one with a 4-cylinders. As the engine is bigger, you also need to pour more oil into it at every oil change.

If you can afford it, buy what makes you happy, not what other people think you should buy.

Stereodude wants my happiness. Wow. I'm already happy. See my face : all smile.

 

[Mercutio]

So Elements are out because they're ugly but the Scion, the lower-to-the-ground, less roomy, less practical and even uglier vehicle, is OK?.

 

[CougTek]

I haven't put a lot of thoughts on the Scion Xb yet. I haven't seen the specifications, impact tests or read recent reviews about it. To tell you the truth, I don't see myself into it much more than behind the wheel of an Element. I think I remember that it sips less gas than the Honda Element did, but I don't recall how much less. I don't turn off every suggestions without analysing it at least semi-seriously.

But I'm in no rush. My car still works. Like I wrote earlier, I'm starting to look for a replacement.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm also unsure how a car with a V-6 will end up costing more on tires, oil, and other stuff.

I don't understand that either. I would not expect so much difference in engine versions for the normal first owner usage of the vehicle. If one ran a vehicle into the ground over a decade and needed to buy a new engine, tranny, turbo/super-charger, dual vs. single exhausts, etc., it might add up to a greater amount. I've never owned two versions of the same vehicle with different engines as time has though.

 

[Stereodude]

Are you on something?

No, I just know how to do math. You think it makes fiscal sense to replace a car that's paid off but gets 20MPG with a new $25k car that get 32MPG? If we assume gas is $5.00 a gallon you'd have to drive 266,667 miles to cover the cost of the new car with the savings on gas.

A V6 engine puts more weight on the front wheels and therefore wears the tires faster. A vehicle with a 6-cylinders is also generally heavier than one with a 4-cylinders. As the engine is bigger, you also need to pour more oil into it at every oil change.

Vastly oversimplify things much? What if it has an aluminum I-6 instead of an iron inline 4 + turbo? You think the V-6 really weighs more?

On oil and maintenance, my car has 3.5L V-6 and uses 4.25 quarts of oil. A Cruze ECO with a 1.4L turbo still uses 4.25 quarts of oil. 2.5 times the displacement, but the same amount of oil. Oh yeah, the Cruze Eco needs Dexos1 grade synthetic oil, so that's gonna cost more. It also uses special low rolling resistance tires that cost more than a typical tire. If you don't use them your mileage will drop some. So, it sure looks like your hypothetical fuel efficient car is going to cost you more in routine maintenance, not less than a V-6.

 

[Stereodude]

I don't understand that either. I would not expect so much difference in engine versions for the normal first owner usage of the vehicle. If one ran a vehicle into the ground over a decade and needed to buy a new engine, tranny, turbo/super-charger, dual vs. single exhausts, etc., it might add up to a greater amount. I've never owned two versions of the same vehicle with different engines as time has though.

A good car doesn't need those things replaced even after a decade of use. He is looking at Chrysler though. ;-)

 

[CougTek]

Are you on something?

No, I just know how to do math.

I was refering to the structure of your sentence, not to the content.

 

[Pradeep]

I haven't put a lot of thoughts on the Scion Xb yet. I haven't seen the specifications, impact tests or read recent reviews about it. To tell you the truth, I don't see myself into it much more than behind the wheel of an Element. I think I remember that it sips less gas than the Honda Element did, but I don't recall how much less. I don't turn off every suggestions without analysing it at least semi-seriously.

But I'm in no rush. My car still works. Like I wrote earlier, I'm starting to look for a replacement.

Hyundai Elantra Touring (wagon):

http://hyundaicanada.com/pages/showroom/showroom.aspx?model=Elantra touring

The GLS spec comes with heated seats, fog lights and alloys for $21,000. That's list so below that should be easy. 2 liter 4 cyl with 138HP that uses 8.7 / 6.5l per 100km (city/highway).

 

[Pradeep]

If you want something more peppy the 2011 Sonata GL has a 2.4l direct injection engine with 198HP that gets 9.4/5.7/7.7 combined, closer to 23k tho. I would say ride your existing car till it dies first.

 

[Pradeep]

Actually the new Caravan is an excellent performer compared to the old lard bus.

http://www.distroauto.com/2011-dodg...ne-and-more-torque-260-lb-ft-versus-230-lb-ft

For 21k Canadian that's not too shabby.

 

[time]

Yeah, but it weighs two tons. I'm guessing that will take some of the shine off the performance around town.

 

[time]

On oil and maintenance, my car has 3.5L V-6 and uses 4.25 quarts of oil. A Cruze ECO with a 1.4L turbo still uses 4.25 quarts of oil.

I concede the point, I shouldn't have included oil. But I can include spark plugs.

CougTek understood what I meant; these days you normally find a 6-cylinder engine in a heavier car. A heavier car needs bigger, more expensive tires. A bigger engine needs a bigger, more expensive battery. It's just little things that add up.

It also uses special low rolling resistance tires that cost more than a typical tire.

Michelin Energy XM1+ are low rolling resistance tires. They're a relatively cheap tire.

But I certainly agree that maintenance costs may not be what you'd expect. Has anyone considered the consequences of the proliferation of high-rpm turbochargers on gasoline engines?

 

[LunarMist]

Not sure where in the US you live, but around here all the dealerships are closed on Sundays.

Really? It has been a few years...

 

[LunarMist]

I'm still not clear on what the vehicle is used for and what it needs to carry. Is it a commercial vehicle or private vehicle used for your business too?

 

[ddrueding]

Here all the dealerships are open 7 days a week. Finding someone competent is more difficult, as sales are down and smart salespeople have gone elsewhere.

I said Golf Wagon because that is what the Canadian website calls it. And Coug is right, it is one of the "Americas" versions of the Jetta: designed for American's typical lack of appreciation for quality and to compete with domestic POSs.

 

[Stereodude]

Has anyone considered the consequences of the proliferation of high-rpm turbochargers on gasoline engines?

Certainly not the people writing CAFE standards.

Though after watching Ford's Ecoboost torture test special that was on TV I'm not sure that all these new turbo engines will be maintenance nightmares. It's worth a watch to see how they beat on the motor in the 6 tests. link

 

[LunarMist]

Here all the dealerships are open 7 days a week. Finding someone competent is more difficult, as sales are down and smart salespeople have gone elsewhere.

For the most part a competent saleperson is one that is good at selling. :-D How exactly does that help Joe consumer?

 

[CougTek]

Is it a commercial vehicle or private vehicle used for your business too?

Right answer in bold.

 

[fb]

Certainly not the people writing CAFE standards.

Though after watching Ford's Ecoboost torture test special that was on TV I'm not sure that all these new turbo engines will be maintenance nightmares. It's worth a watch to see how they beat on the motor in the 6 tests. link

"New turbo engines"? I thought they've been around production cars for almost 40 years by now?

 

[Stereodude]

"New turbo engines"? I thought they've been around production cars for almost 40 years by now?

Really Ford's ecoboost series of engines have been around for 40 years?!?!?! I guess I must have missed something.

 

[Pradeep]

Yeah, but it weighs two tons. I'm guessing that will take some of the shine off the performance around town.

True, but it's peppy compared to other minivans in its weight/type class (Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna) Sounds like he will be hauling computers around with it, so the vehicle size can be justified. Mattress and discolights for the weekend shenanigans. They have a 100,000 mile power train warranty so risk of first gen blues should be diminished. Resale value will be lower than Honda or Toyota, but so is initial price.

 

[fb]

Really Ford's ecoboost series of engines have been around for 40 years?!?!?! I guess I must have missed something.

I meant that turbos has been around in cars since 1974, so it's a pretty mature technology that's been tested in an few million cars by now. So a new turbo engine shouldn't be any less reliable than a normally aspirated engine.

 

[Stereodude]

I meant that turbos has been around in cars since 1974, so it's a pretty mature technology that's been tested in an few million cars by now. So a new turbo engine shouldn't be any less reliable than a normally aspirated engine.

Diesel engines were a very mature technology when GM butchered them in the late 70's and early 80's with the Oldsmobile Diesel too.

Should and are don't always intersect in the real world. There clearly are a lot more possible places for product shortcuts to show up in a engine with forced induction than one without.

 

[CougTek]

The Pentastar must have direct injection, but it isn't a turbo. I'm not too worried about its reliability. It's another thing with the trans.

I'm more of a large dark plastic bags than a matress and disco lights type, really. Having a vehicle with tinted rear windows would be a big plus. I remember the last time someone complained about seating on the rear seats of my current car. I told him he could try the trunk. It must be confortable ; all those I've put there never complained! He sat on the rear seat.

 

[timwhit]

Coug, are you like dexter?

 

[CougTek]

I don't own a boat and I've never used a syringe to stun someone. My definition of good and bad persons is the following : good people are those who pay, bad people are those who don't.