Conservatives and moderates only....

[flagreen]

Do you feel free to post your opinions here at SF without being insulted, mocked or derided for having done so?

I don't.

How about you?

 

[Pradeep]

I'm all excited since the anti-gun "assault weapon" aka lets ban evil looking things law looks like it will expire in September. No more paying out the ass for pre-ban >10 round mags. Some people made a lot of money by stocking up on pre-ban gear before the law went into effect.

I have no probs saying that I hope Bush is re-elected for a second term I only wish I could vote for him.

 

[ddrueding]

Well, my opinion tends to piss off everyone anyway. It's not that I don't feel free to post my opinion, but I certainly do brace for the responses.

Therefore I do only post on issues that I am ready to argue and defend.

My issue is that I'm as against banning assault rifles as I am against banning abortions (or anything else for that matter)...this tends to be an issue with most people at some point.

 

[Handruin]

It would only be due to a dare that I talk politics in front of this crowd. Other than getting pissed off at one another, I've never seen anyone progress by the discussions...

It all seems to lead to Bush sucks, and may I congratulate some fellow named Kerry as the next president at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue 47 times a day.

 

[flagreen]

It's too bad really. It should be otherwise. I belong to an English only Arab / Muslim forum in the Middle East where, as you can imagine, we have some fairly intense debates about religion and politics. But even there those on the "other side of the aisle" are far better behaved than many here or at SR for that matter.

Anyway it's good to know I ain't alone!

 

[mubs]

Other than getting pissed off at one another, I've never seen anyone progress by the discussions...

My sentiments exactly. Once you do know where everyone stands on issues, there's no point debating them over and over. Nobody's going to change their opinions, and it's just going to lead to bad feelings.

While on this topic, I have to say that there's quite a bit of truth in some of what Honold and Prof. Wiz said here - about the place being very clannish. I experience that myself more often than not. At least you're not just ignored, Flagreen.

 

[flagreen]

mubs,

My opinions haven't changed a great deal as a result of the hundreds of discussions I've had on line but I've certainly learned a great deal about all kinds of subjects - and all kinds of people. I find most discussions, even those that don't go anywhere, to be interesting and challenging.

I never considered that being a "black sheep" is better than being ignored - but I suppose that's true.

 

[its.fubar]

It would only be due to a dare that I talk politics in front of this crowd. Other than getting pissed off at one another, I've never seen anyone progress by the discussions...

It all seems to lead to Bush sucks, and may I congratulate some fellow named Kerry as the next president at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue 47 times a day.

The ignored one speaks again......he he

Thank you Handruin for continuing my theme on the cowboy from Texas.
I always knew if I waited long enough it would pay dividends.
I also suggest that you become aware of John Kerry because unlike the other guy he can work with other people besides himself.


once again may I congratulate the next resident and president residing at Pennsylvania avenue 1600 John Kerry.

 

[Tannin]

Oh you are unquestionably right, Flagreen. It is better to be a black sheep. You are a black sheep, and while your posts anger me from time to time (this very thread is a prime example - what a load of sour-milk codswallop it is!) you never fail to provide a balancing virtue within a day or two. (And often, within a sentence or two.)

What you wrote just above expresses my feelings exactly,

My opinions haven't changed a great deal as a result of the hundreds of discussions I've had on line but I've certainly learned a great deal about all kinds of subjects - and all kinds of people. I find most discussions, even those that don't go anywhere, to be interesting and challenging.

Yup. Word for word. That goes for me too.

 

[Howell]

I myself have learned quite a bit by the disussions I've read. Most of the time it has fine tuned my ideas into something more clear. I don't feel attacked personally.

 

[Handruin]

If you get angry with one another, why do you continue to subject yourselves to these discussions. I have enough anger in my life, and I don't need to go looking for more from a group I consider friends.

 

[Handruin]

The ignored one speaks again......he he

Thank you Handruin for continuing my theme on the cowboy from Texas.
I always knew if I waited long enough it would pay dividends.
I also suggest that you become aware of John Kerry because unlike the other guy he can work with other people besides himself.


once again may I congratulate the next resident and president residing at Pennsylvania avenue 1600 John Kerry.

Before I'll speak to you again, please answer my questions:
http://www.storageforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3088

 

[Howell]

If you get angry with one another, why do you continue to subject yourselves to these discussions. I have enough anger in my life, and I don't need to go looking for more from a group I consider friends.

I don't have enough anger in my life.

 

[Tea]

I don't feel attacked personally.

Sorry. I'll try harder next time. Which zort of attack do you prefer? Subtle? Slapztick? Or just a nice, traditional bit of frothing-at-the-mouth vituperation with arm waving and optional spittle? I'm quite versatile about these things.

(Living with Tannin, well, you sort of have to learn to dish out most of it. He seems quite impervious to ordinary abuse. On the whole, I find physical violence the most effective.)

(Now where did I leave my precision impact adjustment tool?)

 

[Tannin]

For some reason, I am reminded of the time when my brother and I had an argument - well, we used to have a few of them back then, one every month or two I guess. We were teenagers. I was maybe 19, he was about 16.

Anyway, we were standing out in the back yard and getting really steamed up about something or other. (I have no idea what) and hurling every insult we had ever heard and every new one we could think of. Screaming at each other really, right at the holding-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck-and-pushing stage. It wasn't in seperate sentences like those below, we were both just yelling abuse flat out at the same time without stopping. It went something like this.

Him: You F%^%#^# &&%^$#% &^#@&^# %&#3!!!!!

Me: Shuddup you **^(^(^$^ (&$^%&#$ #$@##@#@ of a $%#$$##$!!!!

Him: You are a &&& $%$##$ ((*()* %$$#$@#@# (&^!!!

Me: You )*)(%(^ ^%$%$@# (*&(*&^&%%$#$@$ $##$%%^#% of a $3***&*!!!

Him: *&(&^(^%$% $%$%%%#@ #@$@#@##@#@$#@!

Me (softly): Errr ... what did you just say?

Him: ***##$# ##@#@@ && (^*#@$%@$^$$%% ***&^&(*&*** .... What? (softly) ... Err, I think I said .... "parrot droppings nose".

Me: Parrot droppings nose?

Him: I think it was parrot droppings nose.

Me: Parrot droppings nose.

(Hold my head in my hands and start snorting with laughter)

Him: (laughter)

Me: more laughter.

Him: hysterical laughter

Me: (gasping for breath, tears running down my face) parrot dropings nose ....

Him: more hysterical laughter

Me: (finally gain control of myself)

Him: parrot droppings nose

Me: hysterical laughter.

.......

We wound up sitting side-by-side on the back step, damn near exhausted, and still chuckling from time to time. I don't know what we did after that.

Went inside and had a cup of tea, I suppose.

 

[time]

Did I miss something, Bill? Did someone 'have a go' at you?

I know Mercutio's an angry young man these days, and I'll admit to being in a really bad mood the other day, but I can't recall anyone attacking you personally.

It's clear that you always put a lot of effort into political debates, and I for one appreciate that. I sincerely hope that you continue to participate, especially considering these discussions are often driven by you more than anyone else.

If you've found any comments by anyone hurtful, please enunciate your concerns.

 

[flagreen]

David,

When I am posting in "sincere mode" my reaction to being "attacked" by someone is usually that of disappointment rather than anger as it generally means the end of that particular discussion. For me personally there is very little challenge in being an asshole so I loose interest fast in flame fests.

I didn't start this thread because anyone had attacked me. I started it because I have suspected that many here keep there opinions to themselves for the reasons I stated in the opening post.

More later... gotta run now.

 

[The JoJo]

I hope you haven't been too disappointed, as I atleast learn a lot from the different aspects presented in the discussions (even though the religion/politics/abortion/etc discussions always tend to get very heated and personal).

As to me, I feel pretty comfortable posting here, BUT I don't usually (read ~never) post about those subjects, so ...

 

[jtr1962]

I really don't feel inhibited here, either, although I'm getting more and more unsure of exactly where I stand on the political spectrum. For instance, my environmental views are probably closer to the far left, although an increasing number of Republicans are starting to share them. My views on most forms of regulation and taxation are very libertarian-just don't tax or regulate except when absolutely necessary. Economically, I really don't know where I stand any more as I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with capitalism, especially the shipment of jobs overseas. To be sure, I hate socialism and communism with a passion, but I'm starting to hate unregulated capitalism with its mindless pursuit of wealth just as much. Maybe some limits on how much wealth an individual or corporation can accumulate might not be such a bad idea, or perhaps some regulations to encourage companies to keep jobs here.

Anyway, I'm happy to share my views, and don't feel bothered when others criticize them. That's the nature of discussion. As for changing anyone's views, or me changing mine, that does happen occasionally in these discussions. Even if it doesn't, at least a third person reading the discussions might end up with a more balanced set of arguments from which to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Jake the Dog]

short answer: I do

-

yes I have gone overboard on occasion, yes I have offended people and yes I have been offended by what others have occasionally said. still ... I've only ever considered the heated discussions that I've participated in as debates.

if I'm mocked or derided, well then it's my fault for having opened myself up for attack but you can safely bet that I feel free to parry, riposte and counter-riposte!

 

[Jake the Dog]

I really don't feel inhibited here, either, although I'm getting more and more unsure of exactly where I stand on the political spectrum.

funny you say that. the more I read here, the more it affirms my views and standings on the political spectrum.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

> Conservatives and moderates only....

Will there be a thread for the licentious to respond to anytime soon???

 

[Stereodude]

Hmm seems you didn't close the door fast enough Flagreen. You let some liberals in too!

 

[ddrueding]

flagreen,

Sorry if my post seemed to be directed at you, or implied that your arguments wern't thought out or defended well, this was not my intention.

I meerly meant to say that when I post on topics, I do feel a burden of sorts that prevents me from posting on issues. It's not the concern of attack, but rather a sense of obligation to see my argument though.

Strangely, I find myself agreeing most with jtr, and honold. And I know they quite often don't agree...I just with I had more of Tannin's sensability.

Although we don't agree on many of the issues I've read, you're opinion has helped me define and refine my position; giving it more merit and reason than it had before. For that I am grateful.

Basic views I have that piss everyone off:

Life in general is overvalued (people dying isn't a tragedy)
Human rights in general are too undervalued (people are too willing to sacrifice what they don't "need")

I know the second makes me a libertarian, but the first would generally be associated with conservatives....who knows :roll:

 

[its.fubar]

The ignored one speaks again......he he

Thank you Handruin for continuing my theme on the cowboy from Texas.
I always knew if I waited long enough it would pay dividends.
I also suggest that you become aware of John Kerry because unlike the other guy he can work with other people besides himself.


once again may I congratulate the next resident and president residing at Pennsylvania avenue 1600 John Kerry.

Before I'll speak to you again, please answer my questions:
http://www.storageforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3088

The ignored one speaks again......he he

Handruin Wrote:
I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself here, but I warrant your actions to be borderline troll. There is no rule that you must agree with everyone, or that you must not have an opinion, but there is no way you cannot deny 99.97% of your time has not been helping the community as a whole.

gods works in mysterious ways 99.97% of his time read your Bible.


Handruin Wrote:
Simple question. Most people come here for a sense of community and enjoyment. What (if any) enjoyment have you derived from your visits over the last year? Please take some time to answer that question. I truly want to know why you continue to visit storageforum.net.

A simple answer to your question is why does anyone spend time in a forum is it not to put forth their opinion when ever possible furthermore have I ever personally attacked any person in this forum in a harmful way I also believe no one will disagree with me on the fact that cowboy from Texas is attacking people in a harmful way when ever possible with out the majority of this forums consent so I say this prove me wrong in what I have stated previously.

 

[Handruin]

gods works in mysterious ways 99.97% of his time read your Bible.

I don't believe in god, you're not god, and your point wasn't taken.

A simple answer to your question is why does anyone spend time in a forum is it not to put forth their opinion when ever possible furthermore have I ever personally attacked any person in this forum in a harmful way I also believe no one will disagree with me on the fact that cowboy from Texas is attacking people in a harmful way when ever possible with out the majority of this forums consent so I say this prove me wrong in what I have stated previously.

You answered my question WITH a question, take more time to think about it, it is in your own best interest.

No, I haven't seen a personal attack from you. House flies don't attack people either, but they buzz around annoying everyone and eventually get let out, or squashed.

The problem here is you only have one opinion and as illustrated in your unthoughtful reply. You repeat the same thing even when the topic doesn't apply.

 

[Howell]

flagreen,

Sorry if my post seemed to be directed at you, or implied that your arguments wern't thought out or defended well, this was not my intention.

Although addressed to flagreen I can cut this one short by letting you know you are not the only David on the forum. He was not addressing you.

Basic views I have that piss everyone off:

Life in general is overvalued (people dying isn't a tragedy)
Human rights in general are too undervalued (people are too willing to sacrifice what they don't "need")

I know the second makes me a libertarian, but the first would generally be associated with conservatives....who knows :roll:

Are you sure you meant overvalued?
What is "it" that makes a persons "life-time" (human rights) important but the end of that life-time not important?

 

[ddrueding]

Although addressed to flagreen I can cut this one short by letting you know you are not the only David on the forum. He was not addressing you.

Good to know, thanks

Are you sure you meant overvalued?
What is "it" that makes a persons "life-time" (human rights) important but the end of that life-time not important?

I'm really fuzzy on beliefs in this area, so I find it hard to get into (for the reasons mentioned above). I don't want to derail this thread, so when I have more time tonight I'll start another one on this topic and see what I can do to sound insensative, callous, and ignorant
:eekers:

 

[flagreen]

Greetings.

I have received PMs from a few members who hold opinions similar to my own who for all intents and purposes have either left the forum or who have given up expressing their opinions because of the pasting they take when they do so.

I wondered if anyone who was still here, who was conservative or a moderate, felt the same way. That is why I posted this thread.

I am not complaining or whining. As anyone here knows, I am more than capable of holding my own with anyone who would like to get tough, nasty or snotty with me. But that doesn't mean that I enjoy doing so which is why I rarely take the first swing at an individual. I would far prefer that all political discussions were civil.

I am concerned with the quality of the political discussions around here. It would be nice if everyone could be as decent and respectful as "time" is for example even when angry. I am also concerned that we don't lose any more members than we have lost already.

 

[Tannin]

I hear what you're saying, Flagreen, and respect your point of view. In no particular ordeer, these are things that occur to me in this context.

• I rarely read the political threads anymore. Sometimes I duck in for a quick comment, but not often.
• I'm torn between believing that you genuinely feel the way you do about this matter, and regarding this thread as an outrageous and cynical stunt (in the grand old tradition of The Giver) designed purely to muzzle those you don't agree with. Sometimes I see it the first way, sometimes the second. Perhaps it's both.
• Your claim that "conservatives are hounded out of here" is patently absurd. Let's ante-up and name names, shall we? Who is this clique of moderates (you call them "left-wingers") that, by sheer weight of numbers, hound conservatives out of the forum? Let me see, you could count me, Time, Mercutio, Jake the Dog, James (if he is still around), and perhaps P5. That's a whole multitude of 6. (Maybe I missed one or two: no matter, whichever way we count it, it's a single-digit number.)
• And who are the conservatives? Well, there is you, Howell, JTR, Pradeep, Santilli, Clocker, possibly Handruin. (Again, I've probably missed a couple, but that works out to 6 so far and a single-digit number also.
• Your biggest problem (in the context of this discussion) is that you have spent a lifetime in a place that is by world standards deeply inward-looking and remarkably unaware of the rest of the planet, deeply religious, and deeply conservative. You try very hard to overcome this handicap (an effort I respect, for it cannot be easy), but in the end you feel that an open discussion cannot be "fair" as, for some mysterious reason, the clear majority of conservative-leaning, pro-big business, pro-US participations you have come to regard as normal and natural doesn't pertain. Well of course it doesn't! Once you step outside the confines of one particular place (which is unusually large and diverse but on average markedly more tending towards fundamentalist religious beliefs, and markedly to the right of the political centre as well), you discover that the set of views you thought were in the mainstream of political thought are in fact well out to the right of centre. Fine. I don't have a problem with that. You have a problem with that.
• Oh, in my list of left-leaning people above, I forgot to mention Fubar. Sorry Fubar, but I have always regarded your posts as the direct equivalent of The Giver's posts, only from the other side of the political fence and without the subtle sense of humour. The main difference, I guess, is that I often used to read The Giver's posts and I practically never read Fubar posts. Indeed, usually when I see them I just ignore the whole thread from then on. But that's another topic.
• Now, as to the quality of political discussion here. I have often noticed political threads which offer some subtlety of analysis and promise to become really interesting. Most of the time, alas, a conservative jumps in and derails the whole thread, which soon turns into an old-fashioned right vs left bunfight rehashing the same ancient and very boring debates one more time, and I bugger off to the Bird Forum or the Wikipedia or just go on one of my multi-day trips into the outback. By the time I get back, everyone else has got bored too and the thread has died. What it comes down to, I guess, is that it's damn near impossible to have a meaningful or useful conversation about politics when you keep getting interrupted by fundamentalists.
• I imagine that you feel much the same way. There you are having an interesting conversation with Conservative X about (for example) the best tactics to use in order to prosecute the war in Country Y, and in comes Moderate Z with a post saying that you probably shouldn't be involved in the war in the first place. So you reply, spelling out the pro-war reasons one more time, and Moderate Z replies to rebut your reasons with yet another regurgitation of the anti-war theme, and Conservative W hops in to support you, and ...... Huh? What happened to that interesting conversation you were having with Conservative X? Bloowie! It's been blown out of the water, and the thread has degenerated into yet another repeat of the same old stuff.
• Perhaps there is a case for labelling threads somehow, so that this doesn't happen. I ca't imagine how it would work, but there are times when I'd like to be able to benefit from a litte of (e.g.) Mercutio's wisdom without being distracted by the radical right. (That's you: you are mainstream by US standards, but near-fundamentalist right by international standards.) Similarly, I'm sure there are conversations you would like to have with other conservatives that don't get interupted by lunatic godless left-wingers. (That's me: I'm vaguely centre-left by normal standards, but in your part of the world I'm classified as out of the mainstream.) But I doubt that this would be practical.

 

[Tannin]

Two things I forgot or didn't make clear.

When I spoke about having a handicap in my 4th point above, I didn't mean that growing up and living in a "deeply religious, and deeply conservative" society is a handcap. (Well, I think it's a handicap, but that's just personal and subjective opinion, and I have no doubt at all that others regard it as a great boon.) The handicap I was referring to was the objective one: i.e., living in a society that is profoundly isolated from the rest of the world in a way that few if any other democratic societies are.

Second point: Reading my post over I see that it could be interpreted as a plea for a kind of political segregation. That was not my intention. Sure, I have little interest in trying to discuss contraversial political matters with fundamentalist conservatives. (Easier to discuss the best cuts of beef with a Hindu.) Nope. That only turns into a shouting match and there is just no point to it. But there are many, many other topics of interest, to which these problems do not apply, and which I greatly enjoy discussing with many people - our residant conservatives first amongst them

 

[flagreen]

Tannin,

You haven't the slightest idea of the environment in which I grew up. And you obviously have missed the entire point I was trying to make with this thread. It is not disagreement which drives people away. It is ugliness in tone and word directed at those one disagrees with.

I will not name those who I spoke of before. If they should happen to read this they are free to speak up if they care to do so - but I will not betray their confidence. Whether you believe me or not is of no consequence to me.

It is a bit much however to have you interupt this thread to complain about others interrupting those threads which you find interesting.

 

[Tannin]

What a daft response.

• First, o the best of my knowledge, you grew up in and live in the US. That is the more-than-usually right-wing, inward-looking environment I was talking about.
• Oh sure. You are really concerned about "ugliness in tone and word" and not simple disagreement at all. Yeah. I believe you. The thread title was purely an accident. Gahh....
• I did not interupt this thread. I participated in it. Indeed, as a poltical moderate, I was invited to by your thread title.

I should have known better than to expect a civil or rational response from you. Well bugger this for a joke. I'm off to greener pastures.

 

[flagreen]

LOL Oh well...

 

[time]

Well, it sounds like what you're looking for Bill, is moderation of content, where the excesses are reigned in to stop the train derailing.

Of course, we'd need moderators for that, so perhaps that's a topic for the feedback forum?

Tannin's inclusion of me in the left wing conspiracy makes me wonder if I only tend to join political debates here by putting a leftist view. There's lots of times I feel like jumping on someone who's espousing naive left-wing twaddle, but I must admit I tend to hold off. I'm asking myself if that's because I feel they're a little sensitive or because other people are already giving them a kicking?

I have a sense that I expect staunchly right-wing conservatives to be able to look after themselves. Indeed, the representatives that Tannin listed have shown themselves to have very thick skins. Of course, it could also mean that another part of them is too thick to allow them to reassess their judgements.

j/k 8)

It's also possible that I'm a little embarassed by my right-wing views and tend to keep them to myself. Maybe I need to create an alias, like say, The Giver for instance, who can be unashamedly right-wing and throw brickbats without fear of jeopardizing relationships?

 

[its.fubar]

gods works in mysterious ways 99.97% of his time read your Bible.

I don't believe in god, you're not god, and your point wasn't taken.

A simple answer to your question is why does anyone spend time in a forum is it not to put forth their opinion when ever possible furthermore have I ever personally attacked any person in this forum in a harmful way I also believe no one will disagree with me on the fact that cowboy from Texas is attacking people in a harmful way when ever possible with out the majority of this forums consent so I say this prove me wrong in what I have stated previously.

You answered my question WITH a question, take more time to think about it, it is in your own best interest.

No, I haven't seen a personal attack from you. House flies don't attack people either, but they buzz around annoying everyone and eventually get let out, or squashed.

The problem here is you only have one opinion and as illustrated in your unthoughtful reply. You repeat the same thing even when the topic doesn't apply.

Did I suggest that I was god or did I suggest that you should read your Bible for your answer.

as for being associated With House flies and being squashed I suggest you consider the flies in Africa they have a considerable sting in their tale .

give me example when I was not on topic as for unthoughtful replies then all I can say is one man's meat is another man's poison get over it.

 

[its.fubar]

Is there such a thing as a right wing conspiracy in the USA I believe so and here is my Reasons for thinking this way.

Does the average American have decent housing accommodation I believe not after traveling quiet widely in the USA and seeing the general poor quality Having said this the rich Do have lavish and ostentatious extremely large houses to live in and in many cases more than one.
As far as this question is concern I can say the majority in Sweden do have high quality housing.

Does the average American have an affordable and complete medical coverage here also I believe not but the majority in Europe do have this.

Does the average American have a job security and really feel free and able to criticize what he thinks is wrong in his work place and has such things as a guarantee Five week Paid semester each year I believe not but the majority in Europe do have this.

Does the average American need more than one job for his economy to go round I believe so and can he survive on a eight hour working day five days a week I believe not. but the majority in Europe do not have to have more than one job and they do work a eight hour working day.

Does the average American believe that he has Home security when he has weapons in the house I believe so regardless of the fact the majority of homicides (domestic violence) in the USA are caused by these weapons in the house. the average European does realize that having weapons in the house is dangerous and unnecessary

Does the average American Believe that every war since ww2 was justified I believe so regardless of the fact the majority of them was to jump start the American economy after a depression.

Does the average American believe that illegal immigrants From Mexico are taking jobs from the average American yes I do but the question is what American would work for so low wages And if all of these illegal Mexicans were sent back to Mexico who would do the work they were doing for those wages.


So my conclusion is the American dream is just a right wing fantasy put out by The republican minority So they can continue fooling The majority.

 

[Pradeep]

Does the average American believe that he has Home security when he has weapons in the house I believe so regardless of the fact the majority of homicides (domestic violence) in the USA are caused by these weapons in the house. the average European does realize that having weapons in the house is dangerous and unnecessary

Have you ever owned or even used a firearm? Does your government even allow it? Sounds like fear of the unknown to me. A gun doesn't cause a murder by shooting any more than a kitchen knife causes a stabbing to occur. It's a tool. It can be used for good or evil. They are used for hunting, target shooting, and yes, personal protection. It's the nut behind the butt that decides.

The majority of homicides in the US are drug related.[/b]

 

[its.fubar]

Does the average American believe that he has Home security when he has weapons in the house I believe so regardless of the fact the majority of homicides (domestic violence) in the USA are caused by these weapons in the house. the average European does realize that having weapons in the house is dangerous and unnecessary

Have you ever owned or even used a firearm? Does your government even allow it? Sounds like fear of the unknown to me. A gun doesn't cause a murder by shooting any more than a kitchen knife causes a stabbing to occur. It's a tool. It can be used for good or evil. They are used for hunting, target shooting, and yes, personal protection. It's the nut behind the butt that decides.


The majority of homicides in the US are drug related.[/b]

no I haven't owned a firearm but unfortunately I have used one in the military, your analogy on a gun and a knife is somewhat ludicrous the difference being a knife is produced to cut something before eating or cutting objects a gun is produced to kill something before burying a person do you see the difference and you are wrong in the assumption that the majority of homicides in the US are drug related it is domestic violence which is number one and yes this government does allow certain people to own weapons for hunting but it is strictly controlled.

 

[Mercutio]

Just to correct Tannin: It'd be a wide stretch to call me a moderate. I'm well left-of-center.

... and I'm posting in the moderate-and-conservative thread anyway. Nyah Nyah Nyah.