Coronavirus

[Stereodude]

Spray the box with disinfectant before you even touch it, then let it sit, perhaps in your garage, for a while.

Leaving it out in the sun would work too, though you'd have to rotate the box so all sides got sun exposure.

Maybe I need to get those UV-C bulbs and rig up a sterilization station.

 

[jtr1962]

It all depends how it's shipped. I've had air shipments arrive much faster than that. I ordered a Sony MP3 player late last fall from a seller in Hong Kong and I had it on my doorstep 2 days later (DHL). Granted the typical international shipping on low cost items is much slower, but FedEx / DHL stuff comes in only a few days. At work stuff from Europe routinely arrives in about 2 days via FedEx.

I'm talking about the lowest cost shipping option, which is what I typically choose unless someone else, like a company I'm doing work for, is paying the shipping. I think the fastest I ever had stuff arrive from China via the low-cost option was 10 days. I just ordered a pipe camera on eBay. I'd be surprised if I have it before April, perhaps even May.

 

[jtr1962]

Leaving it out in the sun would work too, though you'd have to rotate the box so all sides got sun exposure.

And make sure the forecast doesn't call for rain.

Maybe I need to get those UV-C bulbs and rig up a sterilization station.

If you get a lot of stuff delivered, that might make sense.

Now that I'm thinking about this, regular local mail is suspect even more than international shipments. I might be a good idea for USPS to suspend bulk mail delivery for the duration of this since that's the most volume by far. And to go paperless on your bills, if you haven't already. Junk mail and bills are 99% of my non-package mail.

 

[Stereodude]

...It might be a good idea for USPS to suspend bulk mail delivery for the duration of this since that's the most volume by far...

They could just make that an indefinite thing.

 

[jtr1962]

They could just make that an indefinite thing.

I'm fine with that!

 

[Handruin]

Do you guys sign up for the USPS Informed Delivery Daily Digest? They email you pictures of the mail and packages arriving in your mail. I'll often times only check my mailbox once a week because it's 99% junk.

Edit: USPS informed delivery

 

[jtr1962]

Do you guys sign up for the USPS Informed Delivery Daily Digest? They email you pictures of the mail and packages arriving in your mail. I'll often times only check my mailbox once a week because it's 99% junk.

Edit: USPS informed delivery

Nope. I usually like to be surprised.

 

[Handruin]

Tangentially related...since the DJI & S&P is down a bunch more...is it time to buy yet, or wait for ~19000?

 

[jtr1962]

Tangentially related...since the DJI & S&P is down a bunch more...is it time to buy yet, or wait for ~19000?

Wait....wait....wait. I don't think we've seen the bottom yet. We'll know more in a few weeks. I have some of my father's savings bonds which fully mature in November. That might be a good time to get back in the market.

As for what I already have in, only thing to do at this point is hold tight. I'm not selling now at a big loss. If I had a crystal ball I would have sold when the Dow was over 29,000, and then got back in when it looked like we hit bottom.

 

[Handruin]

Yeah I'm not suggesting anyone sell right now. I just got my tax refund from my solar project and was going to reinvest it in a taxable account. I'm casually discussing this given the rapid drop and another halted trading today as people dump in fear. I can also just average the buys as the market goes down over time. I also don't think this is near the bottom, we're just getting started.

 

[jtr1962]

Yeah I'm not suggesting anyone sell right now. I just got my tax refund from my solar project and was going to reinvest it in a taxable account. I'm casually discussing this given the rapid drop and another halted trading today as people dump in fear. I can also just average the buys as the market goes down over time. I also don't think this is near the bottom, we're just getting started.

I have some money in a taxable account. It's mostly fairly safe stuff but the important part is a lot of it pays dividends. If you put money in, do something similar. Since my dividends automatically reinvest, I'll be buying more stocks at a good time. Last year the account gave me about $3K in dividends. It will almost certainly be less this year, but if those dividends buy more shares at or near the bottom, the account will grow very fast once the market recovers.

I also have a feeling Trump might do something with taxes for a stimulus. I think a good idea would be to increase the 2020 standard deduction from $12,400 to something in the area of $20,000. Those on the bottom end who would benefit most from this will put that money right back into circulation. Another thing he should think about (and beat the Democrats to the punch on) is some sort of student loan cancellation. Maybe start by canceling all loans over 20 years old. That probably won't be all that costly compared to cancelling all student loans, but again that money will go right back into the economy. If he needs more stimulus next year (assuming he's still President), then move up the next tier and cancel loans between 15 and 20 years old. Student loan cancellation is overall a good idea, but I think we should do it in stages to minimize the hit.

 

[Handruin]

I have some money in a taxable account. It's mostly fairly safe stuff but the important part is a lot of it pays dividends. If you put money in, do something similar. Since my dividends automatically reinvest, I'll be buying more stocks at a good time. Last year the account gave me about $3K in dividends. It will almost certainly be less this year, but if those dividends buy more shares at or near the bottom, the account will grow very fast once the market recovers.

I also have a feeling Trump might do something with taxes for a stimulus. I think a good idea would be to increase the 2020 standard deduction from $12,400 to something in the area of $20,000. Those on the bottom end who would benefit most from this will put that money right back into circulation. Another thing he should think about (and beat the Democrats to the punch on) is some sort of student loan cancellation. Maybe start by canceling all loans over 20 years old. That probably won't be all that costly compared to cancelling all student loans, but again that money will go right back into the economy. If he needs more stimulus next year (assuming he's still President), then move up the next tier and cancel loans between 15 and 20 years old. Student loan cancellation is overall a good idea, but I think we should do it in stages to minimize the hit.

I would typically reinvest and/or manage it as growth savings. Timing the market is incredibly difficult for people and historically there aren't many who can...so to me it is all mostly legalized gambling for growth and higher risk investments.

I agree, Trump will likely have to since economy, market, 401k are is his campaign's major talking points...and now that growth is largely gone and continuing to dwindle in his base's 401K's...what platform points can he not lie about? Increasing the standard deduction would be fine for a little while. That may just inflate other things over time but that's very subjective and I don't really know.
I would like to see the military budget brought back down a bit maybe by $150 billion or just cap it at $500 billion and the US leave Iraq. Use the surplus in other areas.

I'm not against cancelling student loans, my concern is that this will just drive up education costs even higher over time now that people can spend more. I think it's a bandaid to a bigger problem that also needs to be addressed at some point. Cancelling them now or in the next year could certainly help jumpstart more economic growth giving millions more people would have free cash but it won't last.

This coronavirus is an interesting example where to the best of what I know right now, the info suggests the testing for COVID-19 would be financially covered but I'm still unclear on what will be covered for the treatment or care from getting severely ill and needing medical attention. Some of what I read says it will be covered...or "no surprise billing"...does that just mean they'll tell people in advance it'll cost $100K so that you're not surprised? The Medicare website just suggests the testing is covered. I may have incorrect info, it's a bit unclear for me.

I really do believe that a proper medicare for all could help get people out of a crushing debt and poor or failing lifestyle so that people can then focus more on education, work, raising families to better the country.

 

[snowhiker]

In other news my HOA has cancelled all community events (10+ different things) for the remainder of March. This is a 55+ community. Maybe I should hit the stores one more time and buy 200 cans of beans and some TP and ride out the panic!

I was reading some threads of people getting screwed over on flights due to misinformation regarding the suspended travel announcement. Seems ill-prepared at best. Not saying the idea isn't good, just the organization and delivery.

This. Plus there are going to be a whole poop-ton of people losing money on NON-REFUNDABLE airline flights to the various events that are being cancelled left and right. If any future travel plans need to be made people should pay a little extra and purchase refundable travel and hotels.

Can people "upgrade" already purchased flights from NOT refundable to refundable flights? No clue as I haven't been on a plane in 35 years.

I'm thinking to let them sit for several days before opening them after they're delivered out of an abundance of caution.

Best practice would be to put them in an oven @ 750 F for six-weeks. Just to be sure.

They could just make that an indefinite thing.

We all wish that junk mail delviery would just go away. But there's way to much ad and delivery money to be lost if they stopped delivering junk mail.

 

[Stereodude]

Tangentially related...since the DJI & S&P is down a bunch more...is it time to buy yet, or wait for ~19000?

I would think that buying on the upswing rather than on the down slope is the better play. It's hard to buy right at the bottom.

 

[Stereodude]

This. Plus there are going to be a whole poop-ton of people losing money on NON-REFUNDABLE airline flights to the various events that are being cancelled left and right. If any future travel plans need to be made people should pay a little extra and purchase refundable travel and hotels.

Can people "upgrade" already purchased flights from NOT refundable to refundable flights? No clue as I haven't been on a plane in 35 years.

You don't actually lose your money with a non-refundable ticket (at least on a real airline). You just can't get your money back. In normal times if you're not going to be able to take your flight, you contact the airline before the first leg of the ticket, and notify them that you won't be able to take it and you end up with a credit on your "account" for the cost of the ticket. The credit will have an expiration date of maybe 6-12 months later. When you go to use the credit the airline will ding you for a change fee. There are some ways to get out of the change fee if you had to cancel the ticket due to certain extenuating circumstance.

In the case of a travel ban I would expect the change fee to be waived. The airlines may have already announced their waiving change fees. I didn't look.

 

[Stereodude]

So my employer has suggested we work from home for the foreseeable future. We don't have to. We can come in to use the lab if we want.

Additionally, there is a financial firm in the same building as our office, but on the 1st floor. We were notified today that one of their employees had contact with someone who has subsequently tested positive for Coronavirus at some point in the last few days. They closed their office, sent all their employees home, and that one employee for Covid-19 testing. The common areas of the building are supposed to be deep cleaned today. Considering there are only 2 confirmed cases in MI you'd think those would be some long odds, but I guess not... Or maybe we're unlucky.

I did some grocery shopping on the way home and plan to basically bug-in and stay in the house for the next number of days. The stores had a palpable tension in them. People were polite and friendly. There was no panic, but the shelves were bare of some items. There was very little bread. The meat department coolers were almost empty. The TP was all gone. There was very little water left. They were out of bananas.

 

[snowhiker]

I was running low on groceries so I needed to hit the store. A bit busier than normal for a Thursday afternoon but nothing out of the ordinary.

Except:

- NO TP.
- NO Flushable wipes/hand wipes.
- NO Paper towels.
- NO Napkins.
- NO bulk bottled water.
- Minimal disinfectant cleaners.
- Minimal Bulk Rice.
- Minimal Bulk/boxed Pasta.
- Minimal Can beans, chili, beef stews, etc.
- Minimal Bulk/bagged flower, sugar & salt.

Some aisles looked worse than the last minute Wednesday Night before Thanksgiving Day shopping. However produce, bread, coffee, frozen food, milk & dairy, junk food, cerial, chips, soda, $9 "speciality/flavored" waters was still fully stocked. I didn't really notice how the meat cases looked as I still have a bunch of frozen chicken, burgers, etc. but I don't remember seeing empty cases either.

It didn't seem like anybody was panic shopping. No abnormal rushing, shoving, grabbing items away from others. I did get a "vibe" of like, "While I'm here I'm going to pick up a few extra cans of beans, stew, rice, pasta, etc. And I ended up doing the same. Which is probably what caused the bare shelves, which induced more, "Just in case" buying.

My car's gas tank was about 50% so I filled that up as well. I always have 6-10 cases of bottled water anyways so I good there. I always have two bulk packs of TP and paper towels from Costco so I'm good there as well. I wanted to get some more water, but no-go today.

 

[Stereodude]

I use tap water. I have some water stored. I don't really get the run on bottled water for this. I suppose it makes a little more sense than the TP run though.

I did fill up the gas tank car on the way home. No lines there. I wiped down the parts of the pump I had to touch with a Clorox wipe before I used it. I bought some groceries (bread & milk) that I won't run out of for a few days. Normally I would wait a few more days before buying, but... It seems like other people were doing a bit of just in case buying also. I also wiped down everything I bought with a Clorox wipe before bringing them into the house.

 

[Handruin]

Everything you both described happened near me also. My GF stopped at the store and shelves were mostly bare, meats gone, no TP again, very little dairy. Much of the pastas were gone. Produce was sparse. No one was rude or panicked, just everyone is stocking up like crazy. She got us a bunch of supplies liked canned goods, tuna, etc mainly because supplies are limited. I haven't been worried about the municipals. Fortunately we're getting into warmer weather so if natural gas supply stops for some insane reason I should be fine. I'm on city water so much the same; something insane would have to happen to have it stop.

Now many of the local schools in my area and 20 miles out toward Boston are closed almost until the end of the month.

 

[snowhiker]

I think I'll return to the same store tomorrow or the next day after that and see if things are being restocked or not. I didn't wipe anything down with wipes. If I stop posting annoying posts you'll know why.

I do have about 20, 2-liter plastic soda pop containers that I re-filled with water 2-3 years ago. As I was screwing on the top I squeezed the bottle a tiny bit so there is NO air in the bottle. I don't think the water itself will go bad, maybe chemicals from bottle leeching into water? Regardless it can be used for non drinking purposes I suppose.

I just checked out my old 2-burner, hand-me-down-from-pop, Coleman propane stove. Stove still works great. The 14.1 oz propane bottle won't self seal after I unscrew it off the Coleman stove regulator. Probably because the bottle is 15-20 years old. I think I'll pick up a few bottles of propane tomorrow. Just to be "safe" Side note: matches go bad. I had a small box of Domino matches (1.75") and maybe 1 in 10 would light. The match head was soft from humidity or decay? Another larger box of Diamond matches (2.25") all worked perfectly.

 

[snowhiker]

 

[time]

Apparently 9 days on hard surfaces (glass, metal, plastic) is not uncommon for coronaviruses. No idea where the tale about only nine hours came from - just more of the avalanche of bullsh*t that has been generated by incompetent 'health professionals'.

You may have heard of the somewhat painstaking Chinese study where they had video footage inside a bus and were able to trace the passengers. Only one person on the bus had COVID-19. Another person sitting 4.5 meters in front of them became infected. 30 minutes after the carrier got off, another person got on a different part of the bus and became infected - surface transmission didn't come into play anywhere.

In other words, despite public bleating that it's just like flu, SARS-CoV-2 can be aerosolized and is more like Measles in terms of airborne contagion.

This research article cites 3 hours in the air and 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel.

 

[Stereodude]

I think I'll return to the same store tomorrow or the next day after that and see if things are being restocked or not. I didn't wipe anything down with wipes. If I stop posting annoying posts you'll know why.

I bought the wipes at the end of Jan/very beginning of Feb., when I was reading the tea leaves on Covid-19 and started the thread, so I figured I'd start using them out of an abundance of caution.

I do have about 20, 2-liter plastic soda pop containers that I re-filled with water 2-3 years ago. As I was screwing on the top I squeezed the bottle a tiny bit so there is NO air in the bottle. I don't think the water itself will go bad, maybe chemicals from bottle leeching into water? Regardless it can be used for non drinking purposes I suppose.

Long term storage of water in plastic is not an issue, however plastic is porous, so you don't want to store the by chemicals nearby since it could leech through over time. I had been storing some "emergency" water that was store bought in 2.5 gallon jugs made from the same plastic that's used for most milk jugs. FYI: That's a bad idea. The plastic goes bad over time (within a few years) and the jugs will split at the corners (stress points) and leak even if they're just sitting on a shelf.

Picture:

I just checked out my old 2-burner, hand-me-down-from-pop, Coleman propane stove. Stove still works great. The 14.1 oz propane bottle won't self seal after I unscrew it off the Coleman stove regulator. Probably because the bottle is 15-20 years old. I think I'll pick up a few bottles of propane tomorrow. Just to be "safe" Side note: matches go bad. I had a small box of Domino matches (1.75") and maybe 1 in 10 would light. The match head was soft from humidity or decay? Another larger box of Diamond matches (2.25") all worked perfectly.

Having ways to cook without power/utilities is always a good idea. I have a Coleman liquid fuel stove (white gas/naphtha/coleman fuel) and a few gallons of fuel. If you really think you'll need a long term cooking solution without utilities kerosene wick stoves are the way to go. They are not a common "appliance" in first world countries, but they can be bought.

Lighters can be your friend too. On matches I think the strike anywhere type matches last longer. I have seen what you've described on regular matches. I normally use a TS8000 to light things. It's on top of a small diameter propane cylinder (typical torch size). Unless the gas is dialed back too much it never fails to light. It's windproof. I've been using it as my "lighter" for years. Works great for candles, fireworks, starting the newspaper in the BBQ charcoal starter, etc.

 

[Stereodude]

Now many of the local schools in my area and 20 miles out toward Boston are closed almost until the end of the month.

All K-12 schools in MI are closed starting March 16th until April 6th.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238301146500009985

If it's bad enough to close them Monday, why isn't it bad enough to close them starting today?

Apparently 9 days on hard surfaces (glass, metal, plastic) is not uncommon for coronaviruses. No idea where the tale about only nine hours came from - just more of the avalanche of bullsh*t that has been generated by incompetent 'health professionals'.

You may have heard of the somewhat painstaking Chinese study where they had video footage inside a bus and were able to trace the passengers. Only one person on the bus had COVID-19. Another person sitting 4.5 meters in front of them became infected. 30 minutes after the carrier got off, another person got on a different part of the bus and became infected - surface transmission didn't come into play anywhere.

In other words, despite public bleating that it's just like flu, SARS-CoV-2 can be aerosolized and is more like Measles in terms of airborne contagion.

This research article cites 3 hours in the air and 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel.

The paper on the Chinese study you're referencing was recalled from publication. It wasn't stated why so it's unknown if it was accurate or not. Most things I've seen talking about the lifespan of Covid-19 on surfaces and whatnot simply assume it's a typical coronavirus and use data gathered on other coronaviruses with no consideration or thought as to whether it might be a very different virus in terms of survivability.

 

[Stereodude]

This one made me laugh...

 

[Newtun]

That Tom Hanks/Rita Wilson issue may be among the best recent news about COVID-19.

If they recover completely, people will realize that it's not an "always-deadly plague", a belief which has caused world-wide panic.

 

[Stereodude]

So the CDC test kits rely on the lab having the necessary reagents to separate the RNA from the sample and there's now a worldwide reagent shortage so Covid-19 testing is still being rationed in the US despite millions of test kits finally going out.

Coronavirus: California testing hamstrung by shortage of key chemical

After a long delay, California getting coronavirus test kits sent by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The early tests were missing a key component, which created a huge backlog …

www.mercurynews.com

 

[Newtun]

From Ars Technica:

Singapore was ready for COVID-19—other countries, take note

To me, a key factor in the Singapore vs U. S. response is summarized in their statement "These countries all have social structures and traditions that might make this kind of surveillance and control a little easier than in the don’t-tread-on-me United States."

Another:

"According to a new article in The Lancet, Hong Kong, Japan, and Singapore all developed their own tests for COVID-19 as soon as the genetic sequences for the virus were published and ramped up production of the materials necessary for those tests. (That’s a sharp contrast with the US, which still doesn’t have enough tests for nationwide use, and may actually be running out of the materials necessary to make them.)"

I guess Trump is waiting for the "invisible hand of the marketplace" to develop enough U. S. testing capability. Wouldn't want to ask those don’t-tread-on-me health-care mega-corporations to do anything that effects the bottom line.

Where is health-care expert Martin Shkreli when we need him? Oh, he's smirking away in his country-club prison.

 

[Stereodude]

I guess Trump is waiting for the "invisible hand of the marketplace" to develop enough U. S. testing capability. Wouldn't want to ask those don’t-tread-on-me health-care mega-corporations to do anything that effects the bottom line.

Well considering they weren't allowed to do so due to FDA regulations up until about 2 weeks ago and how badly the CDC handled things with the initial test kits that didn't work and not having a stockpile of the reagents that are under a shortage. I have more faith in the private sector to sort this at this point than the Feds.

Like this:
"U.S. health regulators have approved a new coronavirus test that will speed up by tenfold the ability to test patients, helping solve a significant obstacle to American efforts to contain the virus.

The Food and Drug Administration granted “emergency use authorization” to the test, which runs on Roche Holding AG’s cobas 6800/8800 systems. The 8800 system is capable of testing 4,128 patients a day, and the 6800 version can test as many as 1,440.

...

The cobas 8800 system can test patients about 10 times faster than Roche’s existing test for the coronavirus, which runs on its MagNA Pure 24 and the LightCycler 480 devices."
source

 

[Handruin]

Part of the testing is also a numbers game. Based on several public statements from the US president, it's a numbers game and the impression needs to be set that the US is lower and/or declining in coronavirus cases, thereby "winning". Conveniently, having limited to no testing capability aligns with that statement.

 

[Newtun]

Well considering they weren't allowed to do so due to FDA regulations . . .

Let's see, who's in charge of the "FDA regulations" and the CDC?

And who's been busy twittering shots at all of the candidates in the democratic-party presidential campaign?

 

[Stereodude]

Let's see, who's in charge of the "FDA regulations" and the CDC?

Stephen Hahn and Robert R. Redfield respectively

Spare me... You act like Trump has enough bandwidth to proactively and personally review every rule, policy, regulation of every aspect of every corner of the Federal gov't before it can cause a problem. That of course is completely impossible. As soon as he was aware of the issue it got corrected.

Obama's administration is somehow not to blame for creating the problem, but Trump is to blame for not fixing it fast enough. I guess in your world the fire department is to blame when an arsonist sets fire to your house down despite getting there and stopping the fire before your house is a total loss because they didn't proactively know about and stop the arsonist before the fire had been set.

Some people are shameless...

 

[Handruin]

That's the thing, Trump has no bandwidth because he's an idiot. Feel free to continue to blame Dems or Obama like most T_D'ers would do. This is on the Republicans. He had plenty of warning to act.

Trump reportedly rejected aggressive coronavirus testing in hopes it would help his re-election

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

 

[Stereodude]

Part of the testing is also a numbers game. Based on several public statements from the US president, it's a numbers game and the impression needs to be set that the US is lower and/or declining in coronavirus cases, thereby "winning". Conveniently, having limited to no testing capability aligns with that statement.

This "theory" is totally devoid of any semblance of logic. It presumes an impossible premise as the basis for taking the action.

Keeping the numbers low via limited testing doesn't stop the virus. People aren't going to miss the spread regardless what the numbers say so it can't make you look good or like you're "winning". In North Korea that strategy might work because the gov't tightly controls the media and it's a dictatorship, so you can't get hit with the whiplash. Where there's a free media, especially one that is dead set on taking down the administration by any means possible, handing them a giant club to beat you with repeatedly and non-stop from now through November would be dumb beyond measure. Like orders of magnitude worse than Fauxahontas releasing a DNA test that showed she was 1/1024th Native American* as validation of her Indian heritage claims.

 

[Stereodude]

That's the thing, Trump has no bandwidth because he's an idiot. Feel free to continue to blame Dems or Obama like most T_D'ers would do. This is on the Republicans. He had plenty of warning to act.

Trump reportedly rejected aggressive coronavirus testing in hopes it would help his re-election

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

It must be depressing to continually get beat by an idiot... He's so stupid he somehow escapes every trap set for him. The "smartest people in the room" can't find a way to beat him. He's so dumb he commits piles of supposed crimes yet leaves no actionable evidence behind.

Are you sure he's the idiot in this equation?

Citing a bunch of MSM propagandists that have worse credibility than tabloids as "evidence" based on their reporting of anonymous sources is laughable at this point. The same people using the same methods got everything wrong on other major news stories and I'm going to trust them now? They told us Russian collusion was real and Spygate was a hoax when the reality is that Russia collusion was a hoax and Spygate was real.

 

[Newtun]

Obama's administration is somehow not to blame for creating the problem

Ah, I wondered how long it would take to blame the COVID-19 problem on that non-citizen/commie/nigger Obama.

 

[Handruin]

It must be depressing to continually get beat by an idiot... He's so stupid he somehow escapes every trap set for him. The "smartest people in the room" can't find a way to beat him. He's so dumb he commits piles of supposed crimes yet leaves no actionable evidence behind.

Are you sure he's the idiot in this equation?

Citing a bunch of MSM propagandists that have worse credibility than tabloids as "evidence" based on their reporting of anonymous sources is laughable at this point. The same people using the same methods got everything wrong on other major news stories and I'm going to trust them now? They told us Russian collusion was real and Spygate was a hoax when the reality is that Russia collusion was a hoax and Spygate was real.

It's telling that you think any of us are winning or in some competition with each other. It's not supposed to be you vs. me, it should be us vs. them no matter D or R. He doesn't care about you either; I don't know how you don't see that? If your bar is so low that you consider the actions of this man as winning, that truly is the saddest state among us both. I don't understand why you try so hard and care so much for that man. You're a pawn in his quest to solve his own daddy issues at the expense of the rest of us. He was a shitty human being before becoming president and continues to be a shitty person during it. He hasn't changed; this is nothing new. You somehow seem to equate my dislike of him because he beat Hillary or the Dems...who I also despise greatly, just not as much as Donald.

If your point is an attempt to insult me you'll have to try harder...it's impossible to take you seriously any longer with your T_D propaganda. If you're unable to tell that he's an idiot through no source other than the words spoken from his mouth, that's really on you at this point. He got everything wrong in his address to the nation for an EU travel ban...how is that possible with a written and prepared transcript? So far you're the only one getting things wrong based on your own merits. Since you choose to actively not see the countless mistakes egregious actions he and his administration make this is what we end up with. Good luck defending your savior while the rest of us understand a bit more about reality.

 

[sedrosken]

Why does everything have to get political?

 

[Handruin]

Why does everything have to get political?

Not everything...this situation is highly politically driven in many countries...hence why things are contentious. That and if you had missed it, many of us in the US are at a divide due to a system that is continually breaking down.

 

[Stereodude]

Why does everything have to get political?

Because America is coming apart at the seams. The two sides no long have a core set of beliefs in common and are headed toward a dissolution.

At least I won't have to read any more posts from the unhinged racist who just outed himself.