Do you think Sony will kill Blu-ray?

[Santilli]

I've noticed that Blu-ray isn't exactly flying. Prices for players are still 4-6 times a DVD player. Do you think Sony will kill it by charging too much for royalties?

 

[Fushigi]

Things working against BD adoption:
- The players are expensive. Some people are probably ready to take the plunge but are holding off until player prices drop.
- The media generally costs more than regular DVDs. So going BD has a generally higher cost than regular DVD.
- Regular DVDs have the advantage of market penetration.
- The economy sucks so people aren't spending as much on unnecessary items.
- BD can only really appeal to owners of HD sets. While that market is growing, there are still many millions of people, myself included, who have yet to take the HD plunge.

At $250-400 for an average BD player, I have to wonder where all of the cost comes from considering a BD-ROM drive can be sold at retail for $140. I'm guessing there's no decoder since an HDTV is required & can handle that job. So above a BD-ROM drive you have a case/PSU, remote control, and a small CPU with some RAM for the Java-based controls (menuing system). A case/PSU/remote are already components of $35 DVD players so we know they aren't expensive. A CPU & a little RAM to run the menuing system isn't going to cost but a few bucks at best.

About the only things left are profit margins, licensing fees, and a little for recovering development costs.

 

[Pradeep]

It's not the royalties that are keeping blu-ray player prices high. It's still in the early adopter phase. The PS3 ensures that blu-ray has a solid future ahead. Blu-ray adoption is ahead of the adoption rate of DVD when it was first introduced.

HD-DVD was the competing standard that died after lackluster studio support.

Greg: It may seem expensive, but the 40GB Playstation 3 at $400 is a great blu-ray player, in addition to being a great games console. Pair it with an HDMI capable display and it provides glorious visuals and sound. It can fold when idle as a bonus You can throw an install of linux on as well if you wanted to explore something new.

 

[Mercutio]

Sony has a long history of introducing failed media formats. I've yet to see anything compelling about BluRay; there aren't even any movies released thusfar that make me want to go out and repurchase them (there were for HD-DVD).

Some people suggest that BluRay will eventually have a library of titles that rises above mediocre, but I've played a grand total of two BluRay titles in the 18 months or so that I've had a BD-ROM drive and at this point I think the right thing to do is to hold off until the drives and media get real price parity with DVD, or someone brings a workable High Definition download service to market.

I suspect the latter will happen before the former, particularly given Sony's control over the BluRay format.

 

[udaman]

It's not the royalties that are keeping blu-ray player prices high. It's still in the early adopter phase. The PS3 ensures that blu-ray has a solid future ahead. Blu-ray adoption is ahead of the adoption rate of DVD when it was first introduced.

HD-DVD was the competing standard that died after lackluster studio support.

Greg: It may seem expensive, but the 40GB Playstation 3 at $400 is a great blu-ray player, in addition to being a great games console. Pair it with an HDMI capable display and it provides glorious visuals and sound. It can fold when idle as a bonus You can throw an install of linux on as well if you wanted to explore something new.

Sony has a long history of introducing failed media formats. I've yet to see anything compelling about BluRay; there aren't even any movies released thusfar that make me want to go out and repurchase them (there were for HD-DVD).

Some people suggest that BluRay will eventually have a library of titles that rises above mediocre, but I've played a grand total of two BluRay titles in the 18 months or so that I've had a BD-ROM drive and at this point I think the right thing to do is to hold off until the drives and media get real price parity with DVD, or someone brings a workable High Definition download service to market.

I suspect the latter will happen before the former, particularly given Sony's control over the BluRay format.

Well it didn't take long did it . Format wars only ended earlier this year, and production changing over to BR in May, yet you all want instantaneous gratification of your own personal preferences, lol.

Same nay sayers here were trashing the iPod & iTunes, that which revolutionized the industry. You can't handle it, lol.

Pradeep is partly correct, Merc is just whining as usual against his favorite target Sony. Come back and update this thread in 6 months.

There are over 3k titles available in BR right now, according to this site:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/top.php?show=preorders&page=3

Low and behold we find one of Merc's fav's is on the list to be released soon, 40yr old Virgin. Lots of other junk movies, I'm sure Merc loves, but has already seen that he won't want to be purchasing on BR now or when they are released...and what of it? Bets on Wall-E coming out on BR soon?

And additional 210 movies listed under category of pre-order that haven't been released, only goes out to the end of October. I would expect 4+k titles (not all movies of course) available by years end, but it won't stop Merc and others from whining I'm sure. Same was said for DVD's when they started replacing VHS. Still some titles not yet in DVD, only on VHS...that really blows!!!

BR players and recorders will come down in price, the 1st DVD players were over $1k, now they cost next to nothing. BR won't cost the same as DVD players, at least not for a long time, if ever. But they will drop in price, no question about it. Just a matter of how long the whiners and complainers are around to post about it ? Meh, knowing this crowd of Apple h8trs (which supported BR from the beginning along with the superior FireWire format co-developed with Sony), likely forever

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/top.php?show=preorders&page=10

site above doesn't even list foreign movies-of course unless it wins an Academy Award for it's star, a movie with a nutjob, most of the SF crowd won't be watching those movies anyway, BR or not.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=446186&highlight=Marion+Cotillard

 

[Fushigi]

1. What does Apple have to do with this?
2. The correct abbreviation is BD for Blu-ray Disc.

 

[fb]

Well, if something, Apple has shown us that people want to download stuff from the internet. So I believe that Merc is absolutely right.

 

[Santilli]

Udaman:
Your posts, and attacks on long time friends here are getting REALLY annoying. Merc hates Sony. They've earned it.
I despise Apple, and, they likewise have earned it.

The folks here have been together a long time, nearly ten years, and, we do take it personally when you attack one of us.

If you have something to say on topic, do it.

If you'd like to know why I will never buy another apple product, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

I'm also highly unlikely to ever buy a Dell, as well.

Monopolies are never good things. Sony with their junk software, some if it fully in the category of spyware, is NOT someone I want having more control of anything I buy. Nor have they produced particularly great, heck, even good products.

Sony's rep in Japan was/is that they are pretty much a second rate giant, that moves slowly, and, is light years behind Panasonic, considered the top of the Japanese electronic companies.

Sony, like most giants, is getting the Chinese to make most of their stuff, with the consequent questionable quality.

Since Sony has a monopoly, their slow progress is not a shock, since the longer they hold high prices, the more profit them make.

That's how monopolies work.

 

[Stereodude]

The cheap Chinese BD players are right around the corner. According to a semiconductor magazine I was reading the BDA is working closely with about 10 Chinese companies to help them get BD players out the door.

 

[Santilli]

BR Lite On reader now 99 bucks...

 

[Pradeep]

Sony has a long history of introducing failed media formats. I've yet to see anything compelling about BluRay; there aren't even any movies released thusfar that make me want to go out and repurchase them (there were for HD-DVD).

...

I suspect the latter will happen before the former, particularly given Sony's control over the BluRay format.

Yeah they did have a few failures in formats, they also had some successes (memory stick is looking good with affordable 8gb modules allowing a PSP to become a viable mp3 player replacement. UMD, whilst failing as a general video format due to insanely high pricing, has continued success distributing games to 35 million PSPs. 2.1gb in a portable optical format back in 2004. What does Nintendo have? A couple of hundred megs on a memory cart.

Let's face it, from a technical standpoint HD-DVD was grossly deficient for computer usage, 30gb vs 50, hard coating, burning technology etc.

Sony is but one of a number of organisations that comprise the blu-ray group. Monopoly control scenario would have been Toshiba winning (HD-DVD) vs every other CE company on earth, just didn't happen.

If you want the best video and audio available for the home, br is the only choice. BTW you can an Insignia BR player for $239 (not that I would recommend it).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8777344&type=product&id=1204332499513

Greg, pair a blu-ray drive with a recent ATI video card (make sure it supports LPCM over HDMI) and you should be good to go.

 

[Santilli]

Hi Pradeep
Can't figure out if the 1650 AGP would work with Blue Ray. I can't really see trashing my dual Xeon rig just for a different video card setup, at this point. Nvidia maybe in the future...Plus, I like the 3540 dual burners I have. Guess I could try an external, USB 2.0 Bluray player...Have the new version of PowerDVD, but, it's default setting don't come through as clear as the old version, so, I haven't been using it much.

Things seem to be going in a fair, if not good direction lately. We'll see. May actually have a chance to build a home theatre PC.

Wonder if the money would be better spent on a bigger LCD, or, really, powerwise, to get rid of the 21" Dell in the other room...

 

[udaman]

I've noticed that Blu-ray isn't exactly flying. Prices for players are still 4-6 times a DVD player. Do you think Sony will kill it by charging too much for royalties?

Exactly how much is Sony charging for royalties as of today, given 5mo later from the start of this thread, you can now buy (a crappy one, but then so were most of the cheapy DVD players when they were 1st on the market) for only $150. Give it 5 more years and I'd expect BR to become a commodity just like DVD players.

*edit* should also mention, price of 25GB BR recording media is painfully expensive at present, ~$13 for lowest price, and forget about newer 50GB media, it's about $40/disc.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/11/21/sony.blu.ray.sales.low/

As previously predicted, prices for Blu-ray disc players are expected to fall below the $200 mark, perhaps even as low as $150 per unit. Sales are likely hurt by the high price of Blu-ray movies, which are often more than $30. Glasgow himself says discounted prices of the movies themselves could jump-start sales of Blu-ray players. Compared to sales of DVD players and recorders, which totaled some 142 million in 2007, Blu-ray has a long way to go.

Glasgow also mentions the TV industry is not skyrocketing as hoped. "There are less consumers... willing to spend money. I believe 80 percent of that is just consumer confidence," he says. Glasgow believes the slow market will allow established companies like Sony that have access to credit take the time to develop new products for the long run while competitors struggle.

Sure wish the price of BR recorders would come down faster. DVD±RW media will only hold 215min of Standard Def. video of decent quality/bit rate, and that's for dual layer, assuming you have a player that will not fumble up on playing those.

I still have lots of VCR tapes I'd like to get rid off for space considerations, and would love to record/transfer to BR's 25GB capacity, getting me 3 8hr VCR tapes worth on a single BR disc. Cart before the wheel, until players start shipping in volume, the price for recorders will stay sky high, and I'll have to wait another year or more, in this world wide recession, for BR sales to take off.

Wonder how much 'credit' Sony has, the big three American Auto companies are on the verge of bankruptcy.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/09/sony.cutting.16k.jobs/

The cuts to permanent employees represent about 5 percent of Sony's total regular workforce of about 160,000.... The news brings renewed difficulty for Sony, which has improved substantially since taking on Sir Howard Stringer in 2005 and undergoing a major revitalization effort in the years since. Most of the company's impending difficulties are believed to stem from a plunge in demand for its BRAVIA HDTVs as home users try to save money, though the company has yet to truly be successful with the PlayStation 3 or the accompanying Blu-ray format and has typically been one of the smaller players among major PC vendors.

 

[MaxBurn]

All the DRM tied in with BD isn't exactly helping things along either. Older TV's without HDCP won't work and if your player isn't one of the newer 2.0 versions with a network connection that is plugged in and ready you may run across disks that just won't play and have to go on the firmware update hunt, which may not end in happiness.

On the HTPC front I have a HDCP compliant monitor and video card but the system won't pass checks because I have a non-compliant KVM switch. AnyDVD HD deletes AACS and does an end run out of the HDCP requirement but is expensive and really shouldn't be necessary.

In short I am extremely unhappy that HD DVD lost, it was free of this stuff and technically a better system too, even if it did have higher hardware requirements in stand alone players. At least the current BD players came around and saw the light there.

 

[Fushigi]

I can see lots of reasons for BD's market penetration to be slow:
- What is the current HDTV market penetration? I really don't know; that's why I ask. No reason to go BD until you have an HDTV. I mean, I just bought our first HDTV last month and I know plenty of people who cannot afford to take the plunge. I know others that really aren't interested in HD; they're getting those converter boxes to handle the OTA transition next year.
- The economy could be stifling demand. If I'm concerned about my job, I would probably defer spending $200+ on a player to replace a perfectly working SD DVD player.
- Consumers may still be adjusting to the higher costs for HD cable or satellite and can't justify the higher costs associated with BD. Or they've tried it and don't think the benefit is worth the price.
- Watching an (inexpensive) SD DVD using a $60 upconverting DVD player to an HD set is still such an improvement over SDTV that people simply don't see the need to go BD. The incremental improvement may be enough. After all, the majority of people aren't really that picky when it comes to their AV setup.
- The local rental store may not stock BD discs or may charge more for them.
- People just don't want to learn anything new. HDMI and other HT setups confuse them. Plenty of people won't go behind their own stereo & leave it to installers or the neighborhood geek.
- They saw a BD demo and were put off by long load times.
- What passes for a sales person nowadays is so questionable that people aren't learning any real benefits to the format.

 

[Stereodude]

In short I am extremely unhappy that HD DVD lost, it was free of this stuff and technically a better system too, even if it did have higher hardware requirements in stand alone players. At least the current BD players came around and saw the light there.

What are you talking about? HD-DVD had all the same DRM stuff as Blu-Ray.

 

[ddrueding]

What are you talking about? HD-DVD had all the same DRM stuff as Blu-Ray.

Not really. HD was broken much sooner, and permanently. It may have claimed to have DRM, but it didn't stop me, and that is why I chose it. Now that BR has been re-sealed, I have once again put off making the switch. If they had left it alone, I would already have a 1080P projector and be buying a few BR disks a month. As it is, I have a BR drive for my computer, one movie, and never bother. If I buy a movie in DVD and want to see it in 1080P on my LCD I download it.

 

[Stereodude]

Not really. HD was broken much sooner, and permanently. It may have claimed to have DRM, but it didn't stop me, and that is why I chose it. Now that BR has been re-sealed, I have once again put off making the switch. If they had left it alone, I would already have a 1080P projector and be buying a few BR disks a month. As it is, I have a BR drive for my computer, one movie, and never bother. If I buy a movie in DVD and want to see it in 1080P on my LCD I download it.

They both have the same AACS protection. Both require HDCP on your display. Now BD also has BD+, but that has been broken wide open too.

 

[MaxBurn]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that security on the HD DVD, but in effect it's about a non-issue as it gets being bypassed long ago.

Hardware wise, as I understand it HD DVD had dual tuners right from the start so they can do the multiangle or commentary window thing, guess how they do that on BD? They have two complete scenes available, one with the window and the other without. Doesn't seem like efficient use of the media to me... Only the latest BD players actually have this hardware now but they still have to make the disks that way to be backwards compatible.

Also something about the quality of the video compression that I never quite got implied that HD DVD was superior for what it does, simply doesn't need the disk space.

I don't know about actually buying the disks one way or the other, but I am still buying DVD. I am thinking about upgrading netflix for the few BD movies they do have though. May consider one of the HD satellite systems eventually too.

 

[Stereodude]

I don't know about actually buying the disks one way or the other, but I am still buying DVD. I am thinking about upgrading netflix for the few BD movies they do have though. May consider one of the HD satellite systems eventually too.

I'm renting from Netflix. I stopped buying DVDs several years ago. I bought a few HD-DVDs in the various closeouts for about $5 each. I've bought a few Blu-Ray discs, but have tried to be very picky about what movies I'm buying, and not pay more than ~$10 each for them.

 

[udaman]

Is Merc around? Maybe he can d/l this 4k res captured Red One clip from Joone (link on pg4 or 5, I forget), and tell me if it's noticeably better than any other Blu-Ray HD or other HD footage he's seen? Damn cursed dialup connection


Now 100+ titles and coming, fast (dbl entendre pun?).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14959&page=7

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/porn/

Digital Playground announces its 100th adult Blu-ray release

by Darren Murph, posted Mar 24th 2009 at 11:39PM
Make no mistake, the crew at Digital Playground has been busy. Real busy. Since going Blu-ray exclusive last June, the famed adult film studio has pushed out a staggering amount of titles on the high-def format. A full 100 of 'em, in fact. The company's Bad Girls will be its 100th Blu-ray release, a 100-minute feature (fitting, no?) that is slated to ship on March 31st. 'Course, you'll be paying a $30 premium for the BD edition over the $29 DVD, but how else will you truly be able to appreciate that RED ONE footage?

[Via I4U News]

• Read

Yeah but even better is the lower priced 2k 3-D system being developed by Panasonic...get a Mac .

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/conten...Twin-Lens-3D-Camcorder-AVC-ULTRA-3D-36439.htm

I can see it now, on a Panny Plasma (but plasmas are on their way out soon) designed for 3-D repro...I can smash my face between imaginary 3-D body parts, lol. Then "ouch, that black guy's super long schlong just poked my eye" ...it was so real in 3-D....:rotfl:



GE has just announced a 'demo' of potential 500GB Halo optical disk.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ge-holographic-storage-500gb-discs,7642.html

With Blu-Ray 50GB recordable disks still at a very high $50+/ea, I wonder how fast those prices will drop, and will SSD flash be at the same price point /GB in a few years, such that distribution may end up being on flash cards instead of optical disc players...in say 5yrs or less?

Of course online rental/streaming, if you can get very-high speed net connections in your location, seem to be the way of the future (not my future, FIOS in areas served by Verison is only available in limited areas of So. Cal., in my area, no fibre probably for another decade, by which time I will have moved...I refuse to pay for cable, and what cable is available is not very fast at all).

 

[LunarMist]

Someone is still replying? I think we know the answer by now. :mrgrn:

 

[Handruin]

Uda...just in case you aren't aware, merc doesn't see any of your posts.

 

[Stereodude]

Someone is still replying? I think we know the answer by now. :mrgrn:

And the answer is NO.

 

[LunarMist]

Yes, but I must the last person not to have a player BD yet. Of course I have no HD TV sets so it would be pointless to collect BDs that cannot be watched.

 

[LunarMist]

Yes, but I must the last person not to have a player BD yet. Of course I have no HD TV sets so it would be pointless to collect BDs that cannot be watched.

 

[LunarMist]

I hope that the new server has a flood control feature.

 

[LunarMist]

I hope that the new server has a flood control feature.

 

[timwhit]

I hope that the new server has a flood control feature.

Flood control is a function of the forum software, not the server. Are you double clicking the "Submit Reply" button.

 

[LunarMist]

Yes, sometimes several times and nothing happens. I hope that issue is moot with the new host.

 

[Handruin]

The forum is configure with zero seconds of wait time in between posting so you could post as many replies as you wanted. We haven't had an issue with this, but I can put in a 5 second wait (or any amount) for flood control if you think there is an issue here?

 

[timwhit]

The forum is configure with zero seconds of wait time in between posting so you could post as many replies as you wanted. We haven't had an issue with this, but I can put in a 5 second wait (or any amount) for flood control if you think there is an issue here?

I think 5 seconds would help.

 

[Handruin]

I've set it to 5 seconds from 0. This is the forum feature I altered which should help, yet hopefully not annoy people.

You may prevent your users from flooding your forum with posts by activating this feature.

By enabling floodcheck, you disallow users from making another post within a given time span of their last posting. In other words, if you set a floodcheck time span of 30 seconds, a user may not post again within 30 seconds of making his last post.

Administrators and moderators are exempt from floodcheck.

Recommended: 30 seconds. Type the number of seconds only. Enter 0 to disable this function.

 

[Stereodude]

How about a max post length limit to keep Udaman in check? :evil:

 

[Handruin]

I think there is an option for that. Hmm....

 

[ddrueding]

I don't have a BR reader, either. My HD-DVD reader is in storage. Back to regular DVD for me until the ripping/compressing gets as easy as AutoGK.

 

[P5-133XL]

Yes, but I must the last person not to have a player BD yet. Of course I have no HD TV sets so it would be pointless to collect BDs that cannot be watched.

I have no Blu-ray, and yes I have a HD TV. It is possible to live ones life without. I do have an HD-DVD but that didn't work out so well.

 

[Stereodude]

I have two LG HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives.

 

[LunarMist]

I have two LG HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives.

That is for TV or the computer?

 

[Stereodude]

That is for TV or the computer?

Both. One is in my HTPC which is connected to my 57" RP-CRT Hitachi in my great room via HDMI. The other is in my Q6600 (office PC) which is also connected to the 52" Samsung LCD in my office via HDMI.