Dual Athlon Epox M762A Availability
- Thread starter Clocker
- Start date
timwhit
0
The guys on modems are gonna be pissed.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Who? Me? All I see is four lines of text.
Tannin
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Too right I'm pissed. 
I hate it when people call a motherboard a mobo. "Pissed" I can accept as merely the usual unlovely American idiom - "pissed off" is to be preffered of course - but 'mobo' is only marginally less neanderthal than "gigs" instead of "gigabytes" or "GB".
Damnit, Cougtek speaks better English than you south-of-the-border types. :wink:
I hate it when people call a motherboard a mobo. "Pissed" I can accept as merely the usual unlovely American idiom - "pissed off" is to be preffered of course - but 'mobo' is only marginally less neanderthal than "gigs" instead of "gigabytes" or "GB".
Damnit, Cougtek speaks better English than you south-of-the-border types. :wink:
Tannin
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Their stock-standard boards are excellent, Doug. As good a board as you can buy, in my view.
But a dual board seems to me to be an entirely different sort of product. Have they the experience and the know-how to do this as competently as they do their routine mid-market products?
Should we assume that because their more modest boards have been honed to near-perfection, that this standard will carry over to the dualie? Or should we assume that, as a new and presumably much more difficult item to design and test, that the dualie will be prone to teething problems?
Wait and see, I guess. If pressed to it, I suppose I'd take a punt with Epox if I needed a dual board, as I haven't heard anything much too nice about the existing specialists in this field. Supercaff at SR was most unimpressed with his Tyan, as I recall. Epox, on the other hand, seem to be in no hurry with their new stuff, and seem to take the time to get it right. Remember the way they sat out of the first round of Slot A boards, and only hit the Athlon market with the KX-133 generation? And remember how good the 7KXA was when it finally arrived?
But it is new ground for them, so far as I know.
But a dual board seems to me to be an entirely different sort of product. Have they the experience and the know-how to do this as competently as they do their routine mid-market products?
Should we assume that because their more modest boards have been honed to near-perfection, that this standard will carry over to the dualie? Or should we assume that, as a new and presumably much more difficult item to design and test, that the dualie will be prone to teething problems?
Wait and see, I guess. If pressed to it, I suppose I'd take a punt with Epox if I needed a dual board, as I haven't heard anything much too nice about the existing specialists in this field. Supercaff at SR was most unimpressed with his Tyan, as I recall. Epox, on the other hand, seem to be in no hurry with their new stuff, and seem to take the time to get it right. Remember the way they sat out of the first round of Slot A boards, and only hit the Athlon market with the KX-133 generation? And remember how good the 7KXA was when it finally arrived?
But it is new ground for them, so far as I know.
Tannin said:
As much as I would like a dual board, I wouldn't use it effectively. I was mostly commenting on Clocker’s discovery, and also to inquire about Epox in general. I did the same thing at SR a year ago when I built my current machine and many people recommended the MSI K7T Pro 2a MB.
For the most part I’ve been happy with it except in the early beginning and also for this past month. I have sorted out the problems with the board now, but I would not like to run into any major surprises in the future if I can avoid doing so.
I would like to build a new machine soon, and I've been looking at the EPOX EP-8K3A (REV 1.1) VIA KT333 . ($94 USD at mwave)
paired with a AMD ATHLON XP 1900+ 1.6GHZ.
Crucial offers:
DDR PC2700 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 6ns • 2.5V • 32Meg x 64 for $111.59
With most PC equipment, it becomes obsolete as soon as you buy it. But in this case, is it a waste of money to go with the KT333 and PC2700 RAM? I would be jumping from SDRAM (PC-133), so any of the newer DDR systems would be a step up. I plan on building a complete new machine so none of the parts from my old system are going into this machine.
Has the spec for PC2700 been finalized long enough were it would be safe to buy? I am looking to use crucial or even Mushkin (if they offer PC2700, I haven't looked yet).
I still have some time to decide, I'm not looking to buy for a few more weeks until I get a desk for it.
I think I'll sleep on these thoughts for now. Just ranting my thoughts…
Tannin
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There aren't any specs for PC-2700. It isn't a standard, just a marketing tool. As I understand it, there won't be any point in going above 266MHz DDR* until two things happen:
1: There is an actual standard to make the products to. There is a comittee working on it but they don't seem to be making any progress. By the time they do, 333MHz will probably be history.
2: There are shipping products that can take advantage of it to deliver higher performance, in particular, CPUs. Unless and until AMD deliver a 333MHz FSB Athlon, the performance difference between an asynchronous 333MHz RAM clock and a synchronous 266MHz RAM clock will be in the same order as the difference between the asynchronous 133MHz RAM clock of the KX-133 and the 100MHz synchronous RAM clock of the AMD 750 - i.e., none to speak of. 133MHz RAM only started to make a significant difference once there was direct CPU support for it - in other words, the Athlon C with its 266MHz FSB.
Given AMD's existing R&D commitments, and the relatively small percentage speed difference between 266MHz and 333MHz, I doubt that they would see it as a priority.
Big statement on zero evidence follows: 333MHz DDR will be short-lived. The real step will be to a higher clocking, 400MHz perhaps, and PC-2700 will, at that time, only be remembered by people like me, who will lovingly plave a stick or two away to rest in peace alongside our 83MHz Cyrix 6x86MX chips and our 5.25 inch EDSI hard drives.
If it's the same price as PC-2100, sure, but don't waste any dollars on it.
------------------------------------------------
* I prefer that term - "PC-2100" is a dumb joke no better than the Rambus lies dressed up as marketing that prompted its invention.
1: There is an actual standard to make the products to. There is a comittee working on it but they don't seem to be making any progress. By the time they do, 333MHz will probably be history.
2: There are shipping products that can take advantage of it to deliver higher performance, in particular, CPUs. Unless and until AMD deliver a 333MHz FSB Athlon, the performance difference between an asynchronous 333MHz RAM clock and a synchronous 266MHz RAM clock will be in the same order as the difference between the asynchronous 133MHz RAM clock of the KX-133 and the 100MHz synchronous RAM clock of the AMD 750 - i.e., none to speak of. 133MHz RAM only started to make a significant difference once there was direct CPU support for it - in other words, the Athlon C with its 266MHz FSB.
Given AMD's existing R&D commitments, and the relatively small percentage speed difference between 266MHz and 333MHz, I doubt that they would see it as a priority.
Big statement on zero evidence follows: 333MHz DDR will be short-lived. The real step will be to a higher clocking, 400MHz perhaps, and PC-2700 will, at that time, only be remembered by people like me, who will lovingly plave a stick or two away to rest in peace alongside our 83MHz Cyrix 6x86MX chips and our 5.25 inch EDSI hard drives.
If it's the same price as PC-2100, sure, but don't waste any dollars on it.
------------------------------------------------
* I prefer that term - "PC-2100" is a dumb joke no better than the Rambus lies dressed up as marketing that prompted its invention.
Tea
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You deleted it, you fool. Along with the rest of your site.
Tannin
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Hey? Where is my avatar?
Tannin
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Damn that girl is quick!
Pradeep
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Doug: Mushkin has PC2700 and PC3000 DDR, I would take that over Crucial anyday.
Tony, you can always unlock the Athlon and lower the multiplier, enabling the FSB to be increased.
Tony, you can always unlock the Athlon and lower the multiplier, enabling the FSB to be increased.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
DDR333 was finalized earlier this month. I've been buying Samsung-branded (chip + PCB, with a sticker on it that says Samsung) PC2700 RAM for KT333 builds. Mostly because that's the only standards-conforming PC2700 I've found.
It is a small step up from regular old DDR. Slightly contrary to what Tannin said, there is a performance gain to be had, but the only reason I'm personally aware of it is my video encoding hobby. Going from 1.5GHz/KT266A to XP1700+ (1.47GHz)/KT333 and from PC2100 to PC2700 gained me 2fps in divx encoding.
(By comparison, going from a Celeron 450 to a Duron 900 gained me 3fps in Divx encoding.) I'd say KT333/PC2700 represents a nice boost.
It is a small step up from regular old DDR. Slightly contrary to what Tannin said, there is a performance gain to be had, but the only reason I'm personally aware of it is my video encoding hobby. Going from 1.5GHz/KT266A to XP1700+ (1.47GHz)/KT333 and from PC2100 to PC2700 gained me 2fps in divx encoding.
(By comparison, going from a Celeron 450 to a Duron 900 gained me 3fps in Divx encoding.) I'd say KT333/PC2700 represents a nice boost.
Tannin
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Looks like I'm behind the times.
Again
Again
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
(scratch mobo from common vocabulary)Tannin said:
You right, me am great English speaker. Me am the most better of America! All your tongues are belong to me.Tannin said:
I see mushkin has the DDR PC2700 available and it looks to be a little less in price then crucial right now. They also have the PC3000, would this ram be better suited for someone who will be over clocking since PC2700 runs at 333 MHz? (I'm not looking to over clock, just interested) The Mushkin PC3200 looks sweet with the heat sink. I'm not looking at buying that speed, I just think it looks neat.
So based on Mercutio's comments, it appears that the industry is moving ahead with the DDR333. Cougtek or I posted an article on the main page about how DDR333 could be short lived, but who knows how long that will take to be true. I was figuring that since I'm running at a 100 MHz bus right now that the jump to DDR333 might offer a bit of improvement, along with a faster processor. Then I'll keep the system for another 2 years and upgrade to a PC8800 system when it comes out.
Pradeep, have you had a bad experience with Crucial? In the past 2 years I've been buying Crucial without any problems, but I've always regarded Mushkin to be as high of quality if not better. Both companies are close in price so maybe I'll use Mushkin this time.
So based on Mercutio's comments, it appears that the industry is moving ahead with the DDR333. Cougtek or I posted an article on the main page about how DDR333 could be short lived, but who knows how long that will take to be true. I was figuring that since I'm running at a 100 MHz bus right now that the jump to DDR333 might offer a bit of improvement, along with a faster processor. Then I'll keep the system for another 2 years and upgrade to a PC8800 system when it comes out.
Pradeep, have you had a bad experience with Crucial? In the past 2 years I've been buying Crucial without any problems, but I've always regarded Mushkin to be as high of quality if not better. Both companies are close in price so maybe I'll use Mushkin this time.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
CougTek said:
I am about to say something in extremely poor taste, which nonetheless must be said.
Amy will give you a fight on that one, CougTek
Pradeep
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Handruin said:
I've had bad memory from Crucial, a failed 256MB Reg ECC DDR module and an overheating 256MB PC133 SO-DIMM (which I believe is using 8ns chips). Given the problems with doing an RMA from Australia I will never be buying from them again.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I didn't know I was such an early adopter...
When I look at the value I deliver with KT333 boards (both the ones I've seen have at least USB2 onboard) compared to the price difference, roughly $15 over the KT266A, I see a win for the new guy. I can't really say anything bad about it, but of course I'm talking about exactly four builds at this point; Tannin probably covers that over a matter of a couple days.
When I look at the value I deliver with KT333 boards (both the ones I've seen have at least USB2 onboard) compared to the price difference, roughly $15 over the KT266A, I see a win for the new guy. I can't really say anything bad about it, but of course I'm talking about exactly four builds at this point; Tannin probably covers that over a matter of a couple days.
Pradeep
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I'm guessing the price differential is higher in good ole Aus. 