Empire in Decline

[Handruin]

Time will tell if Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is also added to the list of folks found guilty of yet another illegal GOP campaign exercise as a straw-donor scheme. If investigated and found guilty, he will be hit with charges from a state, federal, and also lying to congress.

Trump open to inquiry into DeJoy and campaign contributions

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump says he's open to an investigation of Postmaster General Louis DeJoy following published reports that former employees of DeJoy, a major donor to Trump and other Republicans, said they felt pressured to make campaign contributions to GOP candidates.

apnews.com

Postal chief under fire over alleged campaign law violations

WASHINGTON (AP) — Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is facing increased scrutiny as House Democrats investigate allegations that he encouraged employees at his former business to contribute to Republican candidates and then reimbursed them in the guise of bonuses, a violation of campaign finance laws.

apnews.com

Note that despite what GOP talking points suggest of a bipartisan appointment, here are the current Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service with a large majority being republican.

Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Name	Title	Political party	Term begin	Term expiration	Notes
Louis DeJoy	Postmaster General	Republican	June 15, 2020	No term limit	75th United States postmaster general[16]
Robert M. Duncan	Governor, Chairman	Republican	August 2018	December 8, 2025	Re-elected as chairman in November 2019[17]
Ron A. Bloom	Governor	Democratic[18]	August 20, 2019	December 8, 2020	Chair of Strategy and Innovation Committee[19]
Roman Martinez IV	Governor	Republican[20]	August 1, 2019	December 8, 2024	Chair of Audit and Finance Committee[21]
John McLeod Barger	Governor	Republican[22]	August 1, 2019	December 8, 2021	Chair of Compensation and Governance Committee[23]
Donald L. Moak	Governor[24]	Democratic[25]	June 18, 2020	December 8, 2022	Replacing Alan C. Kessler[26]
William D. Zollars	Governor[27]	Republican[28]	June 18, 2020	December 8, 2022	Replacing James H. Bilbray[26]

 

[Handruin]

Audio clips are now out of a conversation between Trump and Woodward. Seems Trump was fully aware in February about the severity of covid in relative terms when compared to the flu and also that it was easily spreadable via being airborne. I'm sure there will be debate about his message to downplay this as to not cause panic...well, look where that got us. Had he been more transparent earlier, it might have helped save a lot more lives and we'd be opening things up a lot more and a lot safer by now.

 

[Newtun]

And what if he had even taken a leadership role to try to set up national policies and procedures to deal with this grave crisis, instead of passing the buck with a comment like "it's not my problem"?

 

[jtr1962]

Despite claiming to be for "law and order" Trump and his followers thrive on chaos. I'm sure that was part of the reason to ignore covid. He was probably also advised it will hit blue states the hardest. Why do anything to help people who aren't going to vote for you?

 

[snowhiker]

Audio clips are now out of a conversation between Trump and Woodward. Seems Trump was fully aware in February about the severity of covid in relative terms when compared to the flu and also that it was easily spreadable via being airborne. I'm sure there will be debate about his message to downplay this as to not cause panic...well, look where that got us. Had he been more transparent earlier, it might have helped save a lot more lives and we'd be opening things up a lot more and a lot safer by now.

When I was in the grocery store in March I already was seeing panic building up. Calm needed to be maintained and downplaying the true potential dangers was probably the right strategy. And when Trump proposed restricting travel from China he was called a xenophobe and racists. In that environment if Trump hadn't "downplayed" the virus he be called a fear monger and we might be in an even worse condition.

Fauci said was asked, "I didn't get a sense that he [Pres Trump] was distorting anything."

Continue watching the clip. A Whoooooooooooooooooooooole bunch of politicians were downplaying the virus as well. Is the media going to show all of the clips of governors and mayors downplaying the dangers as well? Hindsight is 20/20.

7m37s time index:

Also 10th amendment. About 90% of any COVID response was and is a state and local matter and responsibility. The vast majority and the most severe "COVID management blunders" need to be placed at the hands of Governors and Mayors. AKA stuffing sick people in nursing homes.

 

[fb]

And why are everyone, including Trump, complaining about China witholding information if it is such a good thing to do? I do not understand.

 

[snowhiker]

And why are everyone, including Trump, complaining about China witholding information if it is such a good thing to do? I do not understand.

Governments need to have ACCURATE, COMPLETE and TIMELY information regarding COVID to make the best decisions. Now some aspects of the information may need to be withheld and slowly disseminated to reduce possible panic. And here in the states, at least in my state of Arizona, I was beginning to see the look of "WHAT THE F panic" happening in grocery stores.

Again hindsight is 20/20. Off the top of my head...

1) The U.S. should have implemented stricter travel bans sooner. NZ locked everything down quickly and totally. Obviously a LOT EASIER for NZ to do that.

2) U.S. should have had a clear message from the beginning to wear a mask (make one if needed) irregardless of any shortages. Trump, CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc, etc, all share some blame on this.

3) Implement social distancing, public area cleaning, personal hygiene, etc, sooner. Recommend people/businesses that interact with customers take steps to prevent virus spread.

4) Prepare and use/convert building into overflow "hospitals" to isolate the infected and potentially infected (aka DO NOT USE nursing homes).

5) Assume babies/children, and elderly will be in greater danger and provide additional protections/protocols for them.

6) DO NOT TREAT NYC and rural Wyoming the same. What works in one place is not necessarily good for another place.

This is totally crazy if true:
Chinese virologist who fled to the US after claiming Beijing covered up Covid-19 vows to publish evidence PROVING the virus is manmade - and claims even non-scientists will be able to verify the data.

 

[Handruin]

When I was in the grocery store in March I already was seeing panic building up. Calm needed to be maintained and downplaying the true potential dangers was probably the right strategy. And when Trump proposed restricting travel from China he was called a xenophobe and racists. In that environment if Trump hadn't "downplayed" the virus he be called a fear monger and we might be in an even worse condition.

Fauci said was asked, "I didn't get a sense that he [Pres Trump] was distorting anything."

Continue watching the clip. A Whoooooooooooooooooooooole bunch of politicians were downplaying the virus as well. Is the media going to show all of the clips of governors and mayors downplaying the dangers as well? Hindsight is 20/20.

7m37s time index:

Also 10th amendment. About 90% of any COVID response was and is a state and local matter and responsibility. The vast majority and the most severe "COVID management blunders" need to be placed at the hands of Governors and Mayors. AKA stuffing sick people in nursing homes.

You're not winning any support with a video reference by ABL, sorry man. Even though he's not as bad, he's in a similar group of conservative YouTubers like Jesse Lee Peterson who is pretty awful. I watched some of his videos and...wow.

He but let's promote the panic for things like...Mexicans and their caravans and how desperately we need a wall because they're rapists, etc. Mail in voting undermining the election, NFL protests being unpatriotic, Dems taking your guns away, etc....which has still yet to happen. Trump and crew keep praising himself in such high regard for restricting travel from China and...yeah that hasn't really helped. Repeating a talking point about a travel ban is no where near enough to warrant praise in a piss-poor handling of a pandemic. Where was he with enacting the Defense Production Act in February since he knew how serious this was?

Who called Trump a xenophobe and a racist for imposing a travel restriction? Outside of a china travel band he has clearly exhibited both of those traits with both written and audio proof, so it's not without merit.

 

[jtr1962]

Governments need to have ACCURATE, COMPLETE and TIMELY information regarding COVID to make the best decisions. Now some aspects of the information may need to be withheld and slowly disseminated to reduce possible panic. And here in the states, at least in my state of Arizona, I was beginning to see the look of "WHAT THE F panic" happening in grocery stores.

The hoarding was a directly product of people's stupidity and the failure of government to impose a strict lock down. Here's what I would have done once epidemiologists told me the virus had already begun community spread. I would have announced a lock down starting at midnight on the 11 PM news. No prior warnings, no nothing. Just go from open to lock down immediately. No trips to the grocery store, either. Grocery stores would start taking phone or online orders and either delivering, or having customers pick up their order outside. Because people wouldn't be able to go in, the store could limit certain items to prevent hoarding. They could and should have done that anyway once they saw the run on things like toilet paper, but my way would have made it easier. After about a month of this strict lock down it might be safe to gradually start reopening, subject to having a system of testing and contact tracing in place.

1) The U.S. should have implemented stricter travel bans sooner. NZ locked everything down quickly and totally. Obviously a LOT EASIER for NZ to do that.

Agreed. A major lock down probably wouldn't even have been needed if we could have kept the virus from mostly not reaching our shores. So probably in late January or early February, I would have suspended ALL air travel, both foreign and domestic, and also closed the Interstate highways to anything except truck traffic. Once any cases of the virus already in the US were contained, the domestic travel restrictions could have been lifted. However, the suspension of international air travel would remain in effect until the virus was contained worldwide, which most likely means for well over a year. Needless to say, the borders with Mexico and Canada would also need to be strictly controlled. Controversial or not, I would probably have had a shoot-to-kill order in effect for anyone crossing the borders for the duration of this.

2) U.S. should have had a clear message from the beginning to wear a mask (make one if needed) irregardless of any shortages. Trump, CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc, etc, all share some blame on this.

Agreed. And the only reason for the mixed messages on masks in the beginning was a mask shortage which never should have existed. We had over a month to manufacture large numbers of masks.

3) Implement social distancing, public area cleaning, personal hygiene, etc, sooner. Recommend people/businesses that interact with customers take steps to prevent virus spread.

That should have been done in January. Stricter measures like lock downs would only need to be imposed if there was still community spread.

4) Prepare and use/convert building into overflow "hospitals" to isolate the infected and potentially infected (aka DO NOT USE nursing homes).

Agreed. Didn't the order to use nursing homes come from the CDC? People are blaming Cuomo for this in NYS but I think at the time he had no choice.

5) Assume babies/children, and elderly will be in greater danger and provide additional protections/protocols for them.

Well, we've since learned that even for less vulnerable age groups this virus is still deadlier than the flu. And it loves pre-existing conditions, regardless of age. With the huge obesity epidemic in the US, over half the population has pre-existing conditions.

6) DO NOT TREAT NYC and rural Wyoming the same. What works in one place is not necessarily good for another place.

Yes and no. In both places you need to ban gatherings, require mask wearing in public places, implement social distancing, etc. Being that Wyoming is a lot more spread out, the number of places with restrictions will be fewer but you still need to do the same things in areas where people congregate for essential activities like grocery stores. If there is community spread maybe you can avoid a complete lock down in Wyoming, whereas in NYC we had to have one or we might be looking at a few hundred thousand dead now.

This is totally crazy if true:
Chinese virologist who fled to the US after claiming Beijing covered up Covid-19 vows to publish evidence PROVING the virus is manmade - and claims even non-scientists will be able to verify the data.

I ask the same question every time I hear these theories about the virus being man-made, namely what would China's motivation be? Their economy was hurt just as much as anyone's by this. Or even if it was released accidentally instead of intentionally, what's their motivation for playing with coronaviruses? Nature gives us enough deadly pathogens as it is. We don't need to make more in the lab. If we keep it up, one of these days we might accidentally release something which spreads as easily as covid but has a 50%+ mortality rate. That would set back human civilization for decades, maybe more.

All that said, I'm not blaming Trump any more than any other elected officials for what happened at least through April. Lots of people screwed up big time, including NYC's idiot mayor. I AM blaming him for what happened after. NYC had a blueprint for containing the virus. All we had to do was follow it elsewhere. But Trump was in a hurry to reopen, mask wearing somehow became politicized, and he touted ineffective "cures" like hydroxychloroquine, oleandrin, forsythia, etc. He also grossly exaggerated the effectiveness of real treatments like convalescent plasma. So anything that happened after April is mostly on him and the governors who took his lead. The deaths per million people in some southern and western states are already half or more what they are in NY and NJ. Considering that the low population density in these states should act as a buffer, this just underscores how badly these states are handling this. Just as an example, the Sturgis motorcycle rally was a superspreader event.

 

[fb]

Examples of countries where the leadership has intentionally downplayed the dangers of Covid-19:
Belarus
Brazil
USA

So, the US President is in really good company here with dictators and populists.

Of course, every country in the world have made mistakes.But I can only think of one country where "the leader" have suggested that the population should inject sunshine and ingest bleach as a treatment. At least in Belarus the recommendation was to drink a glass of vodka every day. Perhaps not the best advice, but at least it will not kill you.

 

[jtr1962]

At least in Belarus the recommendation was to drink a glass of vodka every day. Perhaps not the best advice, but at least it will not kill you.

Don't laugh but that's not far from an actual preventative measure:

[2003.12444] Possibility of Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) in Human Respiratory Tract by Controlled Ethanol Vapor Inhalation

arxiv.org

"The author suggests that it may be possible to use alcoholic beverages of 16~20 v/v% concentration for this disinfection process, such as Whisky (1:1 hot water dilution) or Japanese Sake, because they are readily available and safe (non-toxic). By inhaling the alcohol vapor at 50~60∘C (122~140∘F) through the nose for one or two minutes, it will condense on surfaces inside the respiratory tract; mainly in the nasal cavity."

 

[fb]

So, the president of the USA gives recommendations on how to nore or less commit suicide, while the dictator Lukasjenko of Belarus actually gives somewhat meaningful advices to his population.

I think it is a slightly worrying situation.

 

[jtr1962]

More than slightly worrying. It's pretty sad when the US is in the company of countries like Brazil in their response to a major pandemic.

 

[fb]

It will be interesting to hear what Trump has to say about Navalny, will it be the first time he will say anything critical about Russia/Putin? (It is now confirmed by three independent different laboratories in France, Germany and Sweden that it was Novichok.)

Or did the cafeteria at the Tomsk airport just mix things up?

Russian Opposition Leader Vows Never To Eat At Tomsk Airport Café Again After Getting Nerve Agent Poisoning There

BERLIN—Upon waking up from a medically induced coma, Russian opposition leader Aleksei Navalny vowed that he would never again patronize the Tomsk Airport café after getting nerve agent poisoning there, sources close to the vocal Putin critic confirmed Wednesday. “The last time I went there, I...

politics.theonion.com

 

[Handruin]

I just went down this multi-day rabbit hole of listening to hours of debates that involve Anthony Brian Logan (ABL) who is the conservative content creator in the video linked by snowhiker and it is fascinating....fascinating. With little doubt remaining, he's an idiot. Legit...he cannot make qualitative and fact-based arguments in debates. I witness mid-debate on political and socioeconomic talking points that he cannot see how ignorant he was in a topic and was suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Why do I point this out...I found these debates enlightening in a way that illustrated some of the common issues in the constant struggle between conservative/liberal talking points. The constant doubt that ABL will pursue in discussing any hot-topic point makes it damn near impossible to argue what a scientific peer-reviewed consensus would offer. Basically it always boiled down to a mixture of comparing only his personal experience and anecdotes to offer doubt in studies conducted by actual philosophers and scientists. The effect of offering huge anecdotes of personal experience as a weighted comparison to talking points makes it impossible to have a valid discussion. It's difficult to describe how painful it is seeing this happen. I highly encourage people if they have free time to start looking into ABL and some of the debates he has with others.

 

[fb]

Trumps campaign is not about facts, it is about speading doubt, divide and conquer.

I have seen the inside of the internet bubble that some people are residing in, quite fascinating.

 

[snowhiker]

You're not winning any support with a video reference by ABL, sorry man.

I simply used ABL's video to show the video of Fauci saying that Trump wasn't distorting anything Trump and Fauci were talking about. And also to show a whole slew of other politicians severely downplaying COVID-19. So your point of Trump hiding the truth or downplaying COVID can be equally applied to all the other politicians. But it seems only Trump gets the "downplaying COVID" blame.

 

[jtr1962]

So your point of Trump hiding the truth or downplaying COVID can be equally applied to all the other politicians. But it seems only Trump gets the "downplaying COVID" blame.

That's not true at all. Mayor deBlasio caught a lot of flak for his handling of the pandemic. He's also widely hated here for other things, like catering to motorists at the expense of pedestrians or cyclists, even though the latter two groups combined are the majority by far in NYC. There's even a countdown clock until he's gone. In fact, deBlasio is the left's answer to Trump. He thinks his version of reality trumps (no pun intended) the actual version by ignoring any facts not fitting his narrative. He hates negative news coverage. And he has a ego to match Trump's.

 

[Handruin]

I simply used ABL's video to show the video of Fauci saying that Trump wasn't distorting anything Trump and Fauci were talking about. And also to show a whole slew of other politicians severely downplaying COVID-19. So your point of Trump hiding the truth or downplaying COVID can be equally applied to all the other politicians. But it seems only Trump gets the "downplaying COVID" blame.

Part of the difference is that Trump is in charge, he's at the highest role available so he has to lead by example here. I'm not suggesting that other politicians downplaying covid R or D is valid or ok. Some/many of them also get shit for the stuff they've said. There's so much more that's deeper-rooted with Trump that at the surface it appears unfair in the assignment of blame.

I see your point that Trump gets what appears like an unwarranted amount of extra blame in comparison to other politicians. A large part of this disparity is throughout his entire term, whenever he's discussing something/anything, he just makes up so much stuff and boasts egotistically of how excellent he is which is rarely truthful or genuine. "No one does <blank> better than me!". He says variations of that line thousands of times for hundreds of different things. I get that people are drawn to this faux confidence but it's really tiresome and unhelpful. No one is that good at so many things. The flip side to this is...when he makes grandiose claims of all his accomplishments...all the time...how can you or anyone not expect equal amounts of criticism and pushback towards these claims? More claims/more criticism.

Where I'm going with this is someone like Trump who never apologizes for any mistake he's made, be it inconsequential or not...really just builds up this pressure and angst from people that are tired of listening to his false narrative and rhetoric. Given how much he verifiably lies and just makes shit up...we're supposed to believe he down-played this situation to keep people calm, etc for the safety of the people? There's just so much to unpack from his lack of integrity that he gets all the criticism he deserves. He can't have it both ways, sorry. In so many of these situations he does things only for himself and not for all of us...the people he serves.

 

[Handruin]

This is totally crazy if true:
Chinese virologist who fled to the US after claiming Beijing covered up Covid-19 vows to publish evidence PROVING the virus is manmade - and claims even non-scientists will be able to verify the data.

This will also be crazy if true...that Trump strategist Steve Bannon is behind this disinformation campaign to make people believe covid was manmade in a lab. The same Steve Bannon that was indicted for conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering along with three other alleged co-conspirators. Time will tell if the Chinese virologist is right or if Bannon is truly a piece of shit for trying to spread this kind of disinformation. I'm not giving China a pass on anything else...they still have a lot to own up to with this.

Steve Bannon Is Behind Bogus Study That China Created COVID

The study goes against basically all scientific evidence and expert opinion. But it fits with the former Trump adviser’s anti-China posture.

www.thedailybeast.com

A new study purporting to show that the novel coronavirus was manufactured in a Chinese lab was published by a pair of nonprofit groups linked to Steve Bannon, the former top Trump strategist now facing felony fraud charges.

The study, co-authored by a Chinese virologist who fled Hong Kong this year, claims that “laboratory manipulation is part of the history of SARS-CoV-2.” Its findings were quickly picked up by a handful of prominent news organizations such as the New York Post, which hyped the “explosive” allegations that run counter to virtually all existing scientific literature on the source of the virus.

 

[snowhiker]

Just a tiny amount of Biden gaffs and poor speech patterns below. Whatever you think of Trump he doesn't have severe dementia or cognitive issues. BIDEN is mentally unfit for president. You all are saying the same thing about Trump and I get it, but BIDEN is PHYSICALLY unfit. FULL STOP.

"U.S. COVID infected {pause} military, er, um, excuse me, U.S. COVID infected in America six thousand 344 thousand 700. U.S. COVID deaths one thousand 189 thousand 506."

Biden does the same a refers to a Harris administration.
Joe Biden accidentally refers to ‘Harris-Biden’ ticket after Harris made similar gaffe.

{install conspiracy theory hat} Were these "Harris Administration" gaffs simply dog whistles to fence-sitting Biden voters, who are very concerned about Biden's mental ability, that, "hey No WORRIES. Biden ain't going to be running the show anyways." {remove hat} ?????

 

[Handruin]

Just a tiny amount of Biden gaffs and poor speech patterns below. Whatever you think of Trump he doesn't have severe dementia or cognitive issues. BIDEN is mentally unfit for president. You all are saying the same thing about Trump and I get it, but BIDEN is PHYSICALLY unfit. FULL STOP.

Have you really not listened to Trump? He definitely has severe cognitive decline. He word-salads stuff ALL the time with long run-on rants (dishwashers, sinks, lightbulbs, toilets...) lol. It's as bad or worse than whatever you're finding of Biden. I'm not defending/excusing Biden here...I'm just disappointed that you only want to recognize it in Biden as severe but not Trump. There are SOOO many examples of cognitive issues (person woman man camera tv). You point out physically unfit...should I queue up the ramp video...or the video of him trying to sip water? There's plenty of others that we could go over. Come on man. I agree with you Biden has issues. How come you can't see then in Trump?

Trump just the other day bumbling the words herd mentality; herd developed? I'm pretty sure he meant to say herd immunity. If he really believes that's where we will be...that'll be millions of people dead.

You want Gaffes? haha

He won't believe or support the science? Wtf...this is not someone any country needs leading.

{install conspiracy theory hat} Were these "Harris Administration" gaffs simply dog whistles to fence-sitting Biden voters, who are very concerned about Biden's mental ability, that, "hey No WORRIES. Biden ain't going to be running the show anyways." {remove hat} ?????

It's no conspiracy...most democrats would expect Harris will be taking over or leading the initiative and that's fine with me. This is the shit ticket the DNC went forward with.

 

[snowhiker]

It will be interesting to hear what Trump has to say about Navalny, will it be the first time he will say anything critical about Russia/Putin? (It is now confirmed by three independent different laboratories in France, Germany and Sweden that it was Novichok.)

Or did the cafeteria at the Tomsk airport just mix things up?

Russian Opposition Leader Vows Never To Eat At Tomsk Airport Café Again After Getting Nerve Agent Poisoning There

BERLIN—Upon waking up from a medically induced coma, Russian opposition leader Aleksei Navalny vowed that he would never again patronize the Tomsk Airport café after getting nerve agent poisoning there, sources close to the vocal Putin critic confirmed Wednesday. “The last time I went there, I...

politics.theonion.com

First off, CHINA, not Russia is America's (and most of the world's) enemy. Not Russia.

What one world leader says about another IN PUBLIC is mostly useless as far as strategic planning goes. Trump playing some 4-D chess here. 1) Trump is a buffoon. 2) Trump speaks out his ass. 3) U.S. Media hates Trump. 4) Trump is dangerous. 5) Trump is X, Y, Z. Etc. Leaders around the world don't know what to think or feel how Trump will react. HE'S UNPREDICTABLE. You don't know what's he's planning, etc. A leader doesn't want to give another leader a "heads up" about possible "behind the scene" actions. A leader doesn't want to "burn bridges," or "insult" another leader**. Shake Putin's hand IN PUBLIC. Say Putin's not a bad guy IN PUBLIC. But behind the scenes do what you got to do. There are probably covert investigations taking place. WHO KNOWS what's going on behind the scenes. Why jeopardize behind the scene actions with a Trump de-nouncement speech?

Is Trump convincing you and other leaders that he's unaware of what's going on? Maybe that's the plan.

As far as I know, Russia is still being sanctioned by the U.S. This is real action that is hurting Russia. Trump not speaking out may seem bad, but maybe speaking out would be worse in different ways.

** cept for China. Trump is bad-mouthing the crap out of China.

That's not true at all. Mayor deBlasio caught a lot of flak for his handling of the pandemic. He's also widely hated here for other things, like catering to motorists at the expense of pedestrians or cyclists, even though the latter two groups combined are the majority by far in NYC. There's even a countdown clock until he's gone. In fact, deBlasio is the left's answer to Trump. He thinks his version of reality trumps (no pun intended) the actual version by ignoring any facts not fitting his narrative. He hates negative news coverage. And he has a ego to match Trump's.

The blame** should be equal but Trump is constantly getting more of it. I'm talking nationally, MSM-wise. Obviously local NYC media is going to slam deBlasio a lot more.

**The blame I'm referring to is Trump downplaying COVID. Nationally and MSM wise Trump is getting the BULK of the blame.

Part of the difference is that Trump is in charge, he's at the highest role available so he has to lead by example here. I'm not suggesting that other politicians downplaying covid R or D is valid or ok. Some/many of them also get shit for the stuff they've said. There's so much more that's deeper-rooted with Trump that at the surface it appears unfair in the assignment of blame.

The Feds (aka Trump) can legally: 1) recommend action and make suggested mandates via CDC, NIH, etc and 2) free up money, to fight COVID. That's mostly it. Feds can't dictate how states will implement policy. If Feds/Trump "fail to lead" then the Governors and Mayors who actually are responsible for the actual, "boots on the ground," response should have led.

The story shouldn't simply be "Trump failed, people died." But "Trump and Governors failed." But it's an election year so let's just forget the state/local fails. (again from a MSM/national level)

Where I'm going with this is someone like Trump who never apologizes for any mistake he's made, be it inconsequential or not...

When do any politicians (in general) ever apologize for anything. (R) or (D)? It's either a fake non-apology, misdirection, change-subject, shoe'd away by staff, "what? what? I can't hear you," etc, etc. Do you honestly think that CNN/MSNBC would ever let it go if Trump said, " Look, I made a mistake about how much info I should tell the public about the dangers of COVID." Be honest now. NOPE. It would be every single day the line, "TRUMP ADMITS HE LIED ABOUT COVID!!!!!11111111!!111" in front of every single news cast regarding COVID for the rest of time.

The political climate disallows any type of "weakness" AKA APOLOGY by any politician, for any reason. Social media, and the "click-bait"ey and polarization of media forces out "good behaviors" that everybody want to see.

I'm not giving China a pass on anything else...they still have a lot to own up to with this.

Indeed. I'm disinclined to believe either story. Unless the CCP itself admits COVID was man-made, no proof would ever be believable. I do believe that COVID escaped that supposed Level-4 lab as it's been studied for at least the last 15 years. I do believe that China knows it was released from that lab. I do believe that China has altered the virus via genetic engineering (or whatever) as part of their study of it. That's what scientists do.

I just don't think they, the CCP, specifically engineered this COVID strain and purposely exposed the public with it. So perhaps parts of the story are true, aka, China engineered COVID and that COVID escaped the lab. That's possibly where the "China engineered AND released COVID to the public" story comes from.

(O/T): I believe the CCP, at least it's current leaders/leadership, is in for a major shakeup. Massive flooding in China as it's been raining daily for nearly two months. Food shortages. COVID lies. Hong Kong destroyed with the new National Security Law. Violent border skirmishes with India. Australia, Japan, India and U.S. quad against China in the South Pacific. Russia seeing China more than the U.S. as its enemy (Trump not bad-mouthing Russia might be a factor here, plus Russia wants sanctions lifted). New PM of Japan very anti-China. Australia not happy with relations/economic deals with China. Vietnam firing on Chinese fishing boats in their waters. ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) upset that China has claimed almost the entirety of the South China Sea and all the islands it contains. Island disputes with the Philippines. On-and-on.

 

[snowhiker]

Have you really not listened to Trump? He definitely has severe cognitive decline.

He won't believe or support the science? Wtf...this is not someone any country needs leading.


It's no conspiracy...most democrats would expect Harris will be taking over or leading the initiative and that's fine with me. This is the shit ticket the DNC went forward with.

Both candidates have old age problems. Both of them. Biden's been in government for nearly 50 years. You think he will actually do or accomplish anything different/better?

1) Trump hasn't started any wars!
2) Trump hasn't continued and maintained any wars at a high level.
3) Trump economy was in pretty good shape before COVID. And it's coming back fairly fast.
4) Trump got peace in the middle east moving forward. Who knows what will happen later, but at least its started.

At least Trump is the shit you know vs Biden you don't. Well I do know that I don't want Biden's Socialists America.

The dems had like 20 candidates and Biden/Harris were literally in the bottom five.

 

[snowhiker]

After spending a couple hours posting here just now, I'm thinking...."Why am I wasting all this time posting for something I don't really care all that much about?" I'm not enjoying the arguments/posts so why do it? My OCD? So I'm going to mostly stop posting about Trump/Biden in this thread. {I'll tie up any loose ends if people want replies, etc}

"Let's just agree to disagree" regarding Trump/Biden. I don't want to fill SD's role anymore



Note: I hope this doesn't come off as too selfish or asshole'ish. I apologize if that's how it's taken.

 

[jtr1962]

Actually, I think we're all better off not getting too emotionally involved here with the election. In the final analysis none of us can do anything major to influence the results, so no point worrying much about it. If there is some major crisis following the election, with either Biden or Trump supporters rioting in the streets, worry about it then. Just a friendly suggestion to anyone here is to try to have at least 6 months of important supplies on hand. None of knows what the virus will do, nor if there will be other events influencing the supply chain. Better safe than sorry. I don't feel like waiting in line all day for something like a loaf of bread if this gets really bad. Just buy stuff that doesn't spoil, like paste, rice, sauce, beans, powder drink mixes, coffee, sugar, etc. And of course toilet paper. That will probably be the first thing to get hoarded again. I have almost 100 rolls on hand I've stocked up on since it started being available. Another 20-pack and I'm set until at least 2022.

By the way, the big problem is the Chinese Communist Party, which probably doesn't represent how most of the Chinese people feel. We can make an enemy of the CCP without making an enemy of the Chinese people. It's high time they got some semblance of democracy there, although hopefully without some of the excesses which have led to the situation countries like the US are in.

 

[Handruin]

After spending a couple hours posting here just now, I'm thinking...."Why am I wasting all this time posting for something I don't really care all that much about?" I'm not enjoying the arguments/posts so why do it? My OCD? So I'm going to mostly stop posting about Trump/Biden in this thread. {I'll tie up any loose ends if people want replies, etc}

"Let's just agree to disagree" regarding Trump/Biden. I don't want to fill SD's role anymore



Note: I hope this doesn't come off as too selfish or asshole'ish. I apologize if that's how it's taken.

That's perfectly fine and not at all selfish or bad in any way. I'd rather not stress you out in back/forth politics discussions especially to your point that you really don't care or not enjoying this. I have no issues with you or any ill-will so I'm glad you said something. I will not make replies to your recent posts so that you don't feel the need to reply/defend. Even though I'd like to, but that would be selfish of me given that you don't want to keep doing this, which is fine.

Since this thread may continue on with more stuff over time, I don't want it to seem specifically targeting you as a person. I realize the discussion challenges the differences in our views but not specifically towards you. Also, keep in mind you can always come back to chime in if you feel it's helpful. You stepping away now doesn't preclude you from coming back later if you value it. I don't see that as negative in any way.

 

[time]

I'm including this article not because I'm trying to buy into US politics, but because I believe it's a fair representation of how the rest of the world views the USA. It's written for an Australian audience, but I'd be interested to see if anyone thinks the author's insight makes sense. Eg. "When Trump emerged, devotees saw him as a revolutionary vandal. They did not want him to go to Washington and fix it, they wanted him to burn it down."

Donald Trump could win the US election for the same reason he won last time

It's definitely not intended as any kind of riposte to Snowhiker - I haven't been following this thread for a while and haven't even read the arguments.

 

[Newtun]

He claimed he was going to "drain the swamp"; instead, he's filled it with vicious alligators.

 

[jtr1962]

This part definitely makes sense:

"It is now not impossible to imagine the United States descending into another Civil War in the wake of this poll, as its heavily armed militias hit the streets in support of a man with the instincts of a demagogue."

I've already mentioned the possibility of this a few times. I'm even stocking up on essential supplies just in case the supply line is disrupted.

I think regardless of who wins the election this country is probably fucked but maybe Biden has a shot at preventing full on civil war. Meanwhile, Trump will likely encourage it. He and his ilk thrive on chaos.

 

[Newtun]

Trump may reject FDA’s stricter regulations for COVID-19 vaccine

FDA’s new standards are meant to shore up public confidence in future vaccine.

arstechnica.com

President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he may reject the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to issue stricter safety and efficacy standards for COVID-19 vaccines, calling the plan a “political move.”​

​

The new standards are aimed at bolstering public confidence in the FDA and its vaccine review process, which has been severely damaged by many reports of political meddling and interference by the Trump administration. Those reports include claims that the FDA was pressured by the White House into allowing COVID-19 patients to be treated with unproven blood plasma and the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, which was personally touted by Trump. (The authorization of hydroxychloroquine was later revoked by the FDA.) Just last week, Trump’s secretary of health and human services, Alex Azar, revoked the FDA’s authority to sign new regulations.​

​

Trump himself has continually undercut federal public health guidance and government scientists, particularly Robert Redfield, his director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Trump has also repeatedly pushed for a pre-election release of a vaccine, though experts have, in turn, repeatedly pointed out that such a speedy release is nearly impossible based on the timeline of the clinical trials underway and the amount of data needed to make even preliminary evaluations of safety and efficacy.​

But Trump is calling the plan a “political move.” Every freaking thing he does is a “political move.”

 

[Newtun]

Oh, and have you heard this one:

When somebody told Trump that hydroxychloroquine is used to treat malaria,​

he said "Well, if it's good enough for the First Lady, it's good enough for me." ​

 

[Handruin]

Oh, and have you heard this one:

When somebody told Trump that hydroxychloroquine is used to treat malaria,​

he said "Well, if it's good enough for the First Lady, it's good enough for me." ​

That's the kind of humor we need right now.

 

[Handruin]

Trump may reject FDA’s stricter regulations for COVID-19 vaccine

FDA’s new standards are meant to shore up public confidence in future vaccine.

arstechnica.com

President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he may reject the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to issue stricter safety and efficacy standards for COVID-19 vaccines, calling the plan a “political move.”​

​

The new standards are aimed at bolstering public confidence in the FDA and its vaccine review process, which has been severely damaged by many reports of political meddling and interference by the Trump administration. Those reports include claims that the FDA was pressured by the White House into allowing COVID-19 patients to be treated with unproven blood plasma and the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, which was personally touted by Trump. (The authorization of hydroxychloroquine was later revoked by the FDA.) Just last week, Trump’s secretary of health and human services, Alex Azar, revoked the FDA’s authority to sign new regulations.​

​

Trump himself has continually undercut federal public health guidance and government scientists, particularly Robert Redfield, his director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Trump has also repeatedly pushed for a pre-election release of a vaccine, though experts have, in turn, repeatedly pointed out that such a speedy release is nearly impossible based on the timeline of the clinical trials underway and the amount of data needed to make even preliminary evaluations of safety and efficacy.​

But Trump is calling the plan a “political move.” Every freaking thing he does is a “political move.”

This policy change for the FDA approval is exactly the kind of behavior to get people even more divided and less trusting of a vaccine and science. It's totally politically motivated to have something just in time for election day. That would be great if it happens but there has to be confidence for people to accept it. The US already has a stupid number of antivax'ers to contend with, we don't need to give them more ammo here.

 

[fb]

Exactly like the Russian vaccine then? It doesn't really matter if it works or not, or is safe, as long as Putin can say they were the first in the world. Perhaps USA will be #2 (before the election day)?

 

[Handruin]

I'm hopeful that with freedom of speech in the US, that if the US does try to rush the vaccine and not follow regular protocols that the scientific community will speak out. Anyone who wants to read and educate themselves from various sources will be able to make a more-informed decision regarding the vaccine if this happens. Others may just continue to follow headlines and disinformation like the status quo.

 

[sedrosken]

Even as bad as things have already gotten I only think things will get even worse before they get a little bit better.

What am I talking about? What am I not talking about? COVID, the rioting, the militia groups rising... Where I work, most of my regulars still think that either everything will disappear after the election, or the entire country will shatter in 2021 regardless of who wins. I honestly try to keep my head in the sand and not listen to anything anymore. Scaring myself isn't going to help anything, I can't reasonably be much more prepared for supply shortages than I already am, and I have quite a few concerning pre-existing conditions that make it so that if I end up infected I'm a dead man walking.

I got asked point blank which militia group I was joining one day. Not, "Are you joining a militia group," which. To borrow a line from Seanzoz's Senile Scribbles series (a parody of Skyrim), "I think I'm going to go with the, uh, 'f*ck both your factions' faction."

 

[fb]

Times have changed...

You People Made Me Give Up My Peanut Farm Before I Got To Be President

For generations, U.S. presidents have gone to great lengths to avoid potential conflicts of interest. When I was elected, I followed suit by placing my small business in a blind trust to assure our citizens that I would always put the country’s interests ahead of my own. It’s a vital...

www.theonion.com

 

[Newtun]

It used to be that not only conflicts of interest were to be avoided, but even the appearance of conflicts of interest. Times have changed . . .

Tracking President Trump's Unprecedented Conflicts of Interest​

 

[Handruin]

I wonder how much $400+ million in liabilities/debts will also be a conflict of interest to trump if he wins the election.