Firefox 1.0

[Mercutio]

There is now no reason to use any other browser.

 

[timwhit]

Do I need to do anything special to install over 1.0PR? I don't want to lose all my extensions and settings. Can I just install it or do I need to uninstall and then install the new version.

 

[Mercutio]

The last couple of revisions I've just installed over the top of the last one. Every once in awhile I've had problems with extensions after and update but this one seems OK on this PC.

 

[sechs]

Use the in-application update and restart the browser when finished.

There will be issues with extensions.

 

[RWIndiana]

What if I want to uninstall firefox? Will I be piecing my system back together for a month after the uninstall? I want to try firefox but I do have concerns about what will happen if I decide to revert to IE.

 

[ddrueding]

I've had some REALLY stupid users revert back to IE after using firefox without issue. Their reasons were that firefox wasn't compatible with some -massively- spyware-riddled software that they insisted on using.

 

[RWIndiana]

Thanks DD. I know what you mean. Some people can be absolutely senseless in their insistance on using software that is loaded with spyware or worse. I have wanted to try firefox for a long time, just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[Will Rickards]

You can safely use FF even without an installer.
It is available in a zip package that you can unzip and then run.
The registry changes it makes if you make it the default browser are easily undone by IE.

But I have doubts that you'll want to go back.

 

[Clocker]

I'm using FF as my main browser for a while on both my slow laptop and my main machine. I cannot believe how much slower it renders the Brighthand forums compared to IE. Other than that, it seems pretty good.

C

 

[LunarMist]

I guess Firefox must be an good browser since I don't like it much. Maybe 2.0?

 

[LiamC]

Clocker, try this


Type about:config in the url and edit the following properties:

network.http.max-connections 32
network.http.max-connections-per-server 8
network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-proxy 8
network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-server 4
network.http.pipelining true
network.http.pipelining.maxrequests 8 (Entering a number higher than 8 will not have any effect)

 

[timwhit]

I guess Firefox must be an good browser since I don't like it much. Maybe 2.0?

How come? Maybe you need to try some of the extensions to customize it to your liking. I recommend Tabbrowser extensions.

 

[CityK]

I'm using FF as my main browser for a while on both my slow laptop and my main machine. I cannot believe how much slower it renders the Brighthand forums compared to IE. Other than that, it seems pretty good.

A friend of mine has a lower end P3 system and, on it, FF renders graphics noticibly slower then IE. However, this cetainly isn't reflective of my overall experience, as on a whole, I find FF has snappier performance then IE on most systems I've tried it with.

 

[Will Rickards]

There are also optimized builds for different processor families.

 

[sechs]

Where?

 

[LiamC]

http://www.moox.ws/tech/mozilla/

or

http://pryan.org/mozilla/firefox/djeter/

You can get them optimised for

P4/Athlon64/FX (SSE2)

AthlonXP/P!!!

MMX
Athlon/K6/K6-III/P2/Pentium MMX/Cyrix

 

[timwhit]

What is the default configuration optimized for?

 

[ddrueding]

http://www.moox.ws/tech/mozilla/

or

http://pryan.org/mozilla/firefox/djeter/

You can get them optimised for

P4/Athlon64/FX (SSE2)

AthlonXP/P!!!

MMX
Athlon/K6/K6-III/P2/Pentium MMX/Cyrix

Sweet. Is the stock 1.0 slow for me in any way? I doubt it. Did I just download the latest trunk build optomised for my CPU? You bet

 

[LiamC]

What is the default configuration optimized for?

Pentium AFAIR. But that instruction set is no different to the 486/386, so it should run on those. Pentium MMX was the first x86 additional instruction set.

I have used the default build on a 1.6 GHz P4 and then tried SSE2 optimised builds from djeter & Moox and noticed a difference in page rendering. On a high-end system, it's a lot harder to spot the difference as they are so quick anyhoo. Noticed a speed up on a 667MHz P!!! as well (with an M2 Moox optimised build versus stock). In short, if you have the latest and greatest, you probably won't notice much, unless you browse like Merc , but if you have a machine that's two or more years old, it's probably worth hunting up.

 

[Tea]

There is now no reason to use any other browser.

Yes there is. In fact. seeing as you like lists so much Merc, I'll give you a whole stack of reasons.

1: Firefox doesn't have a proper download progress dialog, only that poxy Opera-style "download manager" crap.

2: Firefox is klutzy-cute and ugly. Mozilla, on the other hand, is just ugly. On the whole, I prefer honest-to-goodness ugly over klutzy-cute ugly. But of course, if I wanted good looks I'd use Opera. Or, if pushed to it, Internet Explorer.

3: Firefox hides the preferences over on the Tools menu. Who do they think they are? Microsoft? If I wanted to run Internet Explorer I'd run Internet Explorer.

4: Firefox has a much more restricted set of options than Mozilla or Opera.

5: Firefox isn't Internet Explorer. Err ... sorry. This is meant to be a list of reasons Firefox isn't the best browser. Scratch reason #5.

5a: Firefox isn't Mozilla.

 

[Tea]

Oh, I forgot the big one:

6: Firefox makes you do an extra click to bookmark things.

7: Firefox doesn't have the ability to search from the address window, you have to use the poxy little search window instead.



But, on the other hand:

-1: Firefox isn't a 5-alarm security disaster like Explorer.

-2: Firefox doesn't mangle perfectly good HTML like Opera 6.0

-3: Unlike Opera 7, Firefox doesn't have the worst user interface since Internet Explorer 4.0

-4: When you go Help/about, Firefox actually tells you what version you are running (unlike Mozilla, which makes it vitually impossible to figure out).

-5: Firefox has a better built-in email app than Mozilla's.

 

[Mercutio]

There's an extension or theme to fix almost everything you're complaining about, Tea.

 

[Tea]

8: With a real web browser, you don't have to buggerise about loading themes and extensions.

(PS: a small hint about spelling. You spell "real web browser" with two "L"s, a capital "M", a "Z" and some assorted vowels sprinkled over to taste. )

 

[Tea]

PPS: did you pick up on my point "-5:" above?

 

[Tannin]

9: Some rendering weirdness to do with rescrolling the page here and there. Nothing serious. I just happened to be reminded of that when I dropped by to post this (using, as it happens, Firefox).

But what I really dropped by to say is that you have no idea what a headache it is stuffing about with themes and extensions and custom settings when you have lots of different computers. I regularly use about 6 ot 8 different machines, and sometimes I tweak one or another of them up and it looks really nice, but then, a half-hour, later I'm using another machine and I'm faced with all htat stuffing about again, and again and again. It's just too hard.

(I actually use Firefox quite often. Counting me and Tea together, it's probably our 3rd or 4th most-used browser, after Mozilla, Opera 6, and possibly Internet Explorer. (Tea still uses Explorer quite a lot, but only here at Storage Forum where we trust the webmaster not to lumber us with spyware. She will probably switch to Firefox though. (She's not allowed to use Moz or Opera 6 (they are for me to play with), and she hates Opera 7. So do I, come to that. Opera 7 is the biggest pile of pox since Internet Explorer 4.0 or Norton Anti-virus.)

(Well, OK, Opera 7 is better than Norton Anti-virus. But then, so is syphlis.)

 

[Mercutio]

The multiple computer issue is pretty simple: Put firefox on a shared drive.
Run the executable from each machine.

Poof. Every instance gets the same set of extensions.
THat's less helpful if you move between 'nix and windows, but it's certainly a start.

Personally I *love* apps that leave everything they need to run in one directory. What a novel concept!

 

[sechs]

Actually, copying your profile folder works pretty well. For many moons, this has worked with Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox.

 

[ddrueding]

Decided to run the "20041108 Firefox/1.0 (MOOX M3)" build with flash click-to-view enabled....this rules.

 

[Tannin]

The multiple computer issue is pretty simple: Put firefox on a shared drive. Run the executable from each machine.

That doesn't evern come close to working. The machines are on different networks, in differnt parts of town (or in my briefcase, in the example of my notebook) and in any case they don't all run Windows. It's a neat idea, just the same.

But the fact that we are even considering it is itself revealling: it shows that the product ain't right yet, it needs too much user-tweaking. (It's pretty damn good just the same.)

PS: Still no takers on my point #-5 above?

 

[timwhit]

-5: Firefox has a better built-in email app than Mozilla's.

Umm, Firefox doesn't have a built-in email app?

 

[ddrueding]

-5: Firefox has a better built-in email app than Mozilla's.

Umm, Firefox doesn't have a built-in email app?

It interfaces perfectly with Outlook 2003 (Through the "tools" menu). That's good enough for me.

 

[Tea]

Umm, Firefox doesn't have a built-in email app?

Yup. You got it, Tim. And no email app at all is, in my opinion, better than Mozilla's dreadful one. How can they get a browser so good and the email app so bad?

Rule 1 with email is that users want to preserve their data across upgrades and disasters. I'm not talking about some users, I'm taliking about the vast majority of users - better than 80%.

And where does Mozilla Mail store user data? I challenge you all to name the location of Mozilla's email data without looking it up first.

The best email apps have the data location simple and located in a non-vulnerable place, and can access the entire user data-set after a complete Windows removal and reinstall without any heroics bar reinstalling the email app. The steam-driven old Netscape Communicator 4.x got this right, ancient old PMMail gets it right, but Mozilla is broken.

That seriously sucks.

 

[Handruin]

I think your points about firefox requiring too many customizations is a double-edged sword. I prefer to have the option to select which modules are allowed into my browser. The fact that firefox can be had at less than 5MB needs a mention. I think the team made a solid good choice to give folks with dialup connections a fighting chance to download this browser, rather than stuffing it to death with crap many people don't need.

I do think they should offer a "package" of extensions in with the download to make your life easier. How cool would it be to customize your browser config, just like buying a car online. You select the options you need/want, and then click download. Poof, you get one install with everything you needed.

I love the fact that the browser isn't limited to WYSISWYG. If I need something special for the browser, I can learn how to code and make an extension to fit my needs. I know this isn't for everyone, but the ability is there. I can only thank the person who decided to make the Web Developer Toolbar. I use this option all the time. Thank goodness enough people know how to program extensions, because it'll be a long time before I get around to writing any.

 

[Handruin]

-5: Firefox has a better built-in email app than Mozilla's.

Umm, Firefox doesn't have a built-in email app?

It interfaces perfectly with Outlook 2003 (Through the "tools" menu). That's good enough for me.

Mine doesn't do anything. Do I need to configure it some how? I see the email option, but it won't launch anything.

 

[Handruin]

I just found that if you click the button in options for "check now" (tools > Options> advanced), my 1.0PR updated automatically to the 1.0 release without having to download any files manually and it updated after I restarted the browser.

 

[Mercutio]

Tannin, my email resides exactly where I leave it, on my IMAP mail server. I have every piece of e-mail I've gotten since 1993 stored there, through any number of failed drives and computer disasters, I *have* all my email.

 

[sechs]

But the fact that we are even considering it is itself revealling: it shows that the product ain't right yet, it needs too much user-tweaking.

A big fan of the cookie-cutter approach, eh?

 

[timwhit]

7: Firefox doesn't have the ability to search from the address window, you have to use the poxy little search window instead.

There's an extension or theme to fix almost everything you're complaining about, Tea.

Is there anything to fix this?

 

[Tannin]

But Merc, you are a special case. You know what you are doing and think ahead. You represent around 2% of all users. 10% if we are being generous.

I too have all my emails going back for as far as I can be bothered keeping them for. (I forget which year I'm up to: I throw stuff out from time to time; I probably have 5 or 7 years worth of them. I'll trim that back to about half that long next time I have a reorganise. And I too am an exception, another one of that 2% that actually has a vague idea of how the system works and acts accordingly.

But for the average user, the procedure is this:

1: Buy computer.

2: Use whatever email happens to be already installed on it. Save mails to whatever folder it defaults to. (Actually, we are talking about the 98% here: the technical term "folder" doesn't even come into it. They just save and assume that something will look after it by Osmosis or Black Magic or Microsoft or something to do with Megathingies.)

3: Break computer. Either reinstall Windows or take it to someone who does it for you.

4: Ask about your emails, discover that they are all lost (because some brain-dead idiot programmer had the email client default to storing user data in some sub-folder of the Windows folder and the Windows folder is trashed)

5: Go to (1).

6: Lather, rinse, and repeat.

This is why Mozilla mail sucks so badly. Brain-dead programming at its worst. (Well, OK, second-worst. Outlook makes an even bigger mess of it. But then I don't call Outlook "programming", I call it "irresponsible vomit". A good lawyer would probably call it "culpable negligence before the fact".)

 

[Fushigi]

3: Break computer. Either reinstall Windows or take it to someone who does it for you.

4: Ask about your emails, discover that they are all lost (because some brain-dead idiot programmer had the email client default to storing user data in some sub-folder of the Windows folder and the Windows folder is trashed)

5: Go to (1).

6: Lather, rinse, and repeat.

This is why Mozilla mail sucks so badly. Brain-dead programming at its worst. (Well, OK, second-worst. Outlook makes an even bigger mess of it. But then I don't call Outlook "programming", I call it "irresponsible vomit". A good lawyer would probably call it "culpable negligence before the fact".)

The same can be said for IE - where have your Favorites gone?