Firefox 3 beta
- Thread starter Piyono
- Start date
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
I see a lot of complaints that Firefox is getting bloated. Thoughts?
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
I've pretty much stopped caring. Opera is so much better now that I hardly use Firefox. Better user interface aside, Opera is significantly more stable (the most stable browser of them all), and never, ever hogs the CPU. Like all the Mozilla products, Firefox regularly slows systems to a crawl. That bad Gecko bug has been around, unfixed - and so far as I can tell not even on the to-do list - for years. Quite simply, it is unforgivable.
Fushigi
Storage Is My Life
Sechs - I haven't looked at the beta but 2.0.0.12 loads in about a second on each of my main machines so if it's bloated it doesn't impact me.
Tannin - I know not of this instability and runaway CPU consumption of which you speak. I leave Firefox open for weeks at a time and never notice it doing anything 'bad'.
Tannin - I know not of this instability and runaway CPU consumption of which you speak. I leave Firefox open for weeks at a time and never notice it doing anything 'bad'.
udaman
Wannabe Storage Freak
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,209
I don't have 100Mps fiber connection, so I don't load up videos, normal usage with Camino (Mac Gecko
) only consumes ~35% of CPU for but a second while opening 1/2 dozen tabs, then drops to 1%. What is sucky is that it holds on to RAM, keeps taking more and more RAM (according to my Activity Monitor utility at least), starts at a friendly 50MB, but after so many opened windows an hour later it's at 140MB..., close all the windows, open up only one, and it's the same why?Safari
.http://blogs.computerworld.com/safari_is_about_to_get_crazy_fast
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
I use Opera for daily use and firefox for development.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Fushigi, I didn't say Firefox was unstable. It's not, it's very good - but not as good as Opera is. Leave enough tabs in enough windows open long enough and it can go pear-shaped.
But the reality is that you will rarely see it crash, as you are far more likely to see the dreaded, and quite well-known, CPU hogging bug raise its ugly head. This should not be news to ay of us here, it's been around for many years now, has never been fixed, or even addressed in any serious way, and applies to all three main mozila.org products - i.e., you get it in Thunderbird and Seamonkey as well. CPU utilisation goes to ~99% and the only thing you can do about it is shot down the application.
Worse, you don't just have to shut down Firefox, you have to shut down all your moz.org apps.
Others here have reported it as well, it's not just me. And I've seen it on numerous different systems: laptops, desktops, Intel and AMD, different chipsets, W2K and XP, it happens across the board. It's more likely to happen if you have Acrobat going as well (just my seat-of-the-pants observation) but it is NOT an Acrobat problem, as it ONLY hits the moz.org apps, never Opera, and (so far as I know) not IE either - though you'd have to use IE in a lot of windows/tabs to test that properly, and IE usually crashes or otherwise stuffs up well before you get to that point anyway. Or at least IE 5 and 6 used to, don't know about 7.
As I said, the fact that they aren't even trying to fix Firefx when it is quite badly broken is a plain disgrace. Look on their site for the bug reports and you will find a fair bit of finger-pointing ("this can happen with other-program X, try uninstalling/upgrading App X/Y/Z") and excuses, but never any damn action.
Weak as water. If Opera can get it right, Mozilla.org out to be able to buid a browser that just works too.
But the reality is that you will rarely see it crash, as you are far more likely to see the dreaded, and quite well-known, CPU hogging bug raise its ugly head. This should not be news to ay of us here, it's been around for many years now, has never been fixed, or even addressed in any serious way, and applies to all three main mozila.org products - i.e., you get it in Thunderbird and Seamonkey as well. CPU utilisation goes to ~99% and the only thing you can do about it is shot down the application.
Worse, you don't just have to shut down Firefox, you have to shut down all your moz.org apps.
Others here have reported it as well, it's not just me. And I've seen it on numerous different systems: laptops, desktops, Intel and AMD, different chipsets, W2K and XP, it happens across the board. It's more likely to happen if you have Acrobat going as well (just my seat-of-the-pants observation) but it is NOT an Acrobat problem, as it ONLY hits the moz.org apps, never Opera, and (so far as I know) not IE either - though you'd have to use IE in a lot of windows/tabs to test that properly, and IE usually crashes or otherwise stuffs up well before you get to that point anyway. Or at least IE 5 and 6 used to, don't know about 7.
As I said, the fact that they aren't even trying to fix Firefx when it is quite badly broken is a plain disgrace. Look on their site for the bug reports and you will find a fair bit of finger-pointing ("this can happen with other-program X, try uninstalling/upgrading App X/Y/Z") and excuses, but never any damn action.
Weak as water. If Opera can get it right, Mozilla.org out to be able to buid a browser that just works too.
ddrueding
Fixture
I guess I'm just not a power user. I never have FF crash or even slow down. I've been using it exclusively since 1.07 and it has always just worked.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
The problem is, of course, that Opera can't get it right.
Firefox just works for me. Every time I've tried Opera there's one darn thing or another that doesn't work right, has a goofy interface, or doesn't work as expected. Honestly, if the browser can't render pages correctly, how am I supposed to use it.
Every time Tannin sings Opera's praises I download a copy in the hopes that I may have missed something the last time. "Maybe I *can* work with this browser", I tell myself.
Nope. Just feels funny.
Buggy as FireFox may be for some of you, to me it just feels right. I have no idea what you mean when you talk about Opera's "better user interface", Tannin. To me Opera feels all weird and European; like I'm trying to write with my left hand, no ofence to weirdos or Europeans or lefties, politically or dexterously speaking.
Firefox has the easiest, fastest, most natural UI I have ever encountered in a browser. I loved it the first time I tried firebird back in 2002 or whenever it was released. It's not perfect (read: shitty bookmarks implementation) but it stands head and shoulders above anything else I know.
Yeah, it crashes once in a while but I'm willing to forgive some instability for the superior workflow.
As an aside, I just read yesterday (although I can't, for the life of me, remember where) that FF3 is the last version that will use Gecko 1.9. Perhaps someone can find an article to confirm this.
Nope. Just feels funny.
Buggy as FireFox may be for some of you, to me it just feels right. I have no idea what you mean when you talk about Opera's "better user interface", Tannin. To me Opera feels all weird and European; like I'm trying to write with my left hand, no ofence to weirdos or Europeans or lefties, politically or dexterously speaking.
Firefox has the easiest, fastest, most natural UI I have ever encountered in a browser. I loved it the first time I tried firebird back in 2002 or whenever it was released. It's not perfect (read: shitty bookmarks implementation) but it stands head and shoulders above anything else I know.
Yeah, it crashes once in a while but I'm willing to forgive some instability for the superior workflow.
As an aside, I just read yesterday (although I can't, for the life of me, remember where) that FF3 is the last version that will use Gecko 1.9. Perhaps someone can find an article to confirm this.
e_dawg
Storage Freak
I used to love browsers like CrazyBrowser and Maxthon, which were great extensions built on top of IE 6.x. But the JavaScript CPU consumption problems would irritate me to no end.
After switching to Firefox as my favourite browser, all was well in e_dawg land. Eventually, however, I would see FF start sucking up a lot more CPU cycles (usually after having 100+ tabs open for a long time). It definitely takes a lot longer for this to happen, but make no mistake: FF does not remain stable when used heavily for long stretches without shutting down.
I don't think this is a Firefox problem as much as a JavaScript or other type of external code looping going on.
After switching to Firefox as my favourite browser, all was well in e_dawg land. Eventually, however, I would see FF start sucking up a lot more CPU cycles (usually after having 100+ tabs open for a long time). It definitely takes a lot longer for this to happen, but make no mistake: FF does not remain stable when used heavily for long stretches without shutting down.
I don't think this is a Firefox problem as much as a JavaScript or other type of external code looping going on.
ddrueding
Fixture
Guys, what type of work are you doing that causes 100+ tabs to be open for multiple days? I'm just curious...
Bozo
Storage? I am Storage!
e_dawg
Storage Freak
Wouldn't you like to know...
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
When Firefox gets slow I generally kill it in Task Manager and then start it back up and restore my previous session. Takes care of any CPU or memory utilization problems.
ddrueding
Fixture
Firefox 3 Beta 4 and the current nightly do a great job scaling the entire page not just the text, for us blind people.
Yeah, Safari is fast, because it's beta and full of holes
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/25/security-flaws-found-safari
..."Web User reports that security firm Secunia has classified both of these fresh vulnerabilities as "highly critical" flaws, its second highest severity rating."...
patch the holes, slow things down. Type and bounds checking, as well as input validation doesn't come for free.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/25/security-flaws-found-safari
..."Web User reports that security firm Secunia has classified both of these fresh vulnerabilities as "highly critical" flaws, its second highest severity rating."...
patch the holes, slow things down. Type and bounds checking, as well as input validation doesn't come for free.
paugie
Storage is cool
If I had 100+ tabs, I probably would be duplicating at least a third of those. I'd forget what I would have on.
And it's not just in Firefox. I don't laugh anymore at jokes about elderly people stopping in the middle of the stairs trying to figure out whether they were coming up or going down.
Must be the Aspartame.
And it's not just in Firefox. I don't laugh anymore at jokes about elderly people stopping in the middle of the stairs trying to figure out whether they were coming up or going down.
Must be the Aspartame.
Most old people don't walk backwards on the stairs, so forward would be the best choice when confused.
ddrueding
Fixture
Yesterday, actually. And I'm seeing no difference between the last Beta, all the RCs and this one. I suppose that is the way it should be; just fixing corner cases before release.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
I installed it yesterday at home and noticed no difference other than 1 of my extensions that didn't work works now.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
One of my favorite Extensions is not supported by its original author any more. I have to turn of the Extension security checking to get it work. This makes FF3.0 bitch at me when I start it up.
Which will be a problem every 60 - 90 days, I guess.
I'm going to back up all my open tabs on all my computers so I can update all my systems over the weekend.
That will probably take all weekend.
Which will be a problem every 60 - 90 days, I guess.
I'm going to back up all my open tabs on all my computers so I can update all my systems over the weekend.
That will probably take all weekend.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
How many computers are you talking about?
ddrueding
Fixture
What extension? Would it be less work to update the extension yourself?
I'm still trying to visualize a workflow that involves that many concurrent tabs...
I'm still trying to visualize a workflow that involves that many concurrent tabs...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
There are 11 I still need to do.
ddrueding said:
Magpie. It was written by Ben Goodger, project manager for Firefox. He abandoned it when FF2.0 came out, but someone else continued development. Unfortunately, the new guy doesn't have permission to update addons.mozilla.org, so he just leaves comments on the official page for the addon (which Goodger hasn't updated in years) about the server where his version can be found.
There are other extensions that do the same thing as Magpie but I don't like any of the others as well.
As for workflow... I regularly keep dozens or hundreds of open tabs open on any given computer. Some of the tabs will just be porn. A lot will be related to a project I'm working on or to research I'm doing. Some will be interesting links from Slashdot, Boingboing, Fark or Digg. Some will be Google Docs files. Some will be web configurations for servers or appliances.
No, I don't have any problem remembering what I have open on which computer. Yes, it sometimes takes a few seconds to scroll through the list of open tabs (I use control-tab to flip around). No, Firefox doesn't seem to slow down or crash on me, ever. Noscript and Flashblock undoubtedly help with that. Yes, I use a session saver tool in case it ever does. I prefer not to use that tool, because it doesn't save authenticated sessions sometimes.
Mostly I'm just used to working that way.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Something I have noticed about Firefox 3 is that UI performance slows quite a bit when there are more than 20 or 30 tabs open. There's a noticeable delay when switching tabs. I suppose that's just the result of Firefox aggressively trying to keep its memory footprint low, but someone who has 30 tabs open probably isn't that worried about it.
The other thing I notice is the more tabs I have open, the poorer flash videos play back. System resources don't seem to enter into this; the machine I'm using right now is using 4% of its CPU time right now and have 2.5GB of free RAM, but fully loaded YouTube videos can't play back without stuttering.
The other thing I notice is the more tabs I have open, the poorer flash videos play back. System resources don't seem to enter into this; the machine I'm using right now is using 4% of its CPU time right now and have 2.5GB of free RAM, but fully loaded YouTube videos can't play back without stuttering.
Gilbo
Storage is cool
Anyone try Weave.
I'm using it to replace Google Browser Sync since that extension doesn't work with Firefox 3, and won't be updated. The main problem I have is that it doesn't seem to sync tabs. If I have another instance of Firefox open somewhere, it notices those tabs, but when I get home, I don't see any way to restore any tabs I had open at work.
Otherwise, it seems to be working well. I can't wait until it can sync Extensions & UI Configuration changes.
I'm using it to replace Google Browser Sync since that extension doesn't work with Firefox 3, and won't be updated. The main problem I have is that it doesn't seem to sync tabs. If I have another instance of Firefox open somewhere, it notices those tabs, but when I get home, I don't see any way to restore any tabs I had open at work.
Otherwise, it seems to be working well. I can't wait until it can sync Extensions & UI Configuration changes.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I've been using Foxmarks. I would melt any computer I have if I tried to keep tabs sync'd.
Google Browser Sync would start acting funny and start losing bookmarks if all your Firefox sessions were more than a couple months old, so I switched off it a while back.
Google Browser Sync would start acting funny and start losing bookmarks if all your Firefox sessions were more than a couple months old, so I switched off it a while back.
Hmm, that multiple tab performance is just the reverse of my experience. I only have a couple addons but I found that FF3 is way faster with multiple tabs than FF2 was. I typically have less than say twelve tabs and more than five open at a time. I do have to make use of the undo close though, sometimes a little too proactive in closing old tabs.