Folding@Home

[Will Rickards]

Yes single AMD X2 3800+ now and when I first started producting again.
I had a part-time Pentium M 1.6Ghz for a while in the middle.
Since 12/02 I've had mark's flags added to my two F@H instances and they seem to be making a difference, each of the past few days at 600 points or more for the day. Hopefully that continues, as it took both my X2 3800+ and the Pentium M 1.6GHz to get me at 600 points per day before.

See my last 7 week points per day average
563 (this week - only 3 days)
397
431
418 (no pentium M here)
475
374
504
510 (pentium M here)

 

[P5-133XL]

AMD 64's have a large scale performance advantage on paper but QMD's won't run on them: Well, they will run under Linux but then the SSE is disabled and they become poor point producers. This results in the Single-core 1066HHz FSB P4EE's being the best overall folding producers: Especially if you can OC RAM. Just as a side note - They are also the best heaters in the PC world.

Buying into expensive P4's for folding purposes is not really a good idea. In the long run, the AMD X2 processors are a much better bargin. Eventually, the QMD's will go away and a new core will replace it, or the Intel EULA problem will be fixed and those AMD dual cores will shine as folding monsters.

 

[i]

The behavior was first noticed with AMD Develoment Center. If you look at their user list you will see computer clusters as names. When the clusters were being tested, they used F@H and were producing tremoundous scores (50,000-300,000 Pts per day) and had only a single CPU listed. Since F@H didn't support it, they obviously had written an application that would collect and distribute WU's amoung the individual machines within a cluster.

I used to be a contributor to the distributed.net project as far back as 1998. What happened from time to time was that someone would crack the latest version of the client and send bogus data back to the project servers just as fast as they possibly could.

Does anyone really monitor the data that gets sent back to the F@H project? I doubt it.

 

[LiamC]

Why, oh why, even though the names are the same, are my stats on three different names? GregorySantilli, GregorySantilli, and GregDualXeon?

I've changed the names to all be the same, Gregory_Santilli, but, they won't combine. :rant: :cursin: :bounce:

gs

Greg, I think you still have your names skew-if. In the stats, one is showing up as

Gregory_Santilli

while the other is showing as

GregorySantilli (no underscore)

apologies if you haven't gotten around to changing them.

 

[Santilli]

When I was real enthused, I was using the SO's Athlon 3000, my work 1.4 gig athlon, my P2 400mhz, laptops G3 333mhz, 1.6 Pentium M, and my dual Xeon.

Currently the Gregory_Santilli name is on the Dual, and, the real point scorer, my SO's 3000.

I've determined the older machines aren't worth the electricity, and, I'm still mad at Stanford for not letting me into my uncle's, and grandfather's school. :boom: :jumpin: :cursin:

The 3000 is silent, and, it never really even turns on the fan, on the Swiftech heatsink. It runs 24/7, and the Seasonic 400 is silent as well, and a good additional heater, in our 30 degree weather.

GS

 

[CougTek]

Is the Dual Xeon working 24x7? If it does, then your unit production is abnormally low. Even with a single instance of the client running on it, it should average almost 400 points per day by itself.

 

[Bozo]

i - Just after 9-11, the F@H project found some posible cures for anthrax. Somebody must be looking at the data.

Greg - Don't think of Stanford: Think positive. It could be your computer that finds a cure for cancer.


Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[CougTek]

...or a cure for some unknown cat disease. Think about your kitty.

 

[The JoJo]

With any luck I'll have 2xP4 3.2 for a few days folding. Fire up you computers gentlemen, the winter is here ! Brrr, waiting for summer already

 

[Handruin]

Damnit Coug...I might just actually replace my celeron CPU with a P4 inside my dell just to get my 450 points a day (and to get by you!).

 

[CougTek]

Actually, on average it is more 360 points, not 450. Maybe if you get something with an 800MHz FSB, it will produce above 400 points per day, average.

My next 450 points unit is due around 1am tonight, so if I have points today, it will be from my Duron system, not my P4.

 

[i]

i - Just after 9-11, the F@H project found some posible cures for anthrax. Somebody must be looking at the data.

Yes, I'm reasonably confident that someone will eventually look at most of the data that's handed back to the F@H project.

But really ... do you think there is an army of researchers verifying that each work unit returned to the F@H project is valid, and not just bogus filler used to boost someone's stats? That I doubt.

I imagine the data gets some cursory verification through some software process (that someone has probably found a way to defeat), and then it winds up sitting on a RAID array or on a tape somewhere. It's only when some researcher decides that that piece of data might be useful that anyone's going to give it any real scrutiny. And if they do discover bad data, they're not going to announce it. No project needs bad publicity. They'll just discard the bad data and farm the work units out again, after hopefully finding the source system and banning it.

 

[Gilbo]

Many types of mathematical problems possess asymmetrical difficulty. It's possible that it is very easy to check if any given fold is correct, but relatively difficult to generate a correct fold in the first place.

 

[i]

That's possible, assuming they go into that level of detail as a form of verification.

It's also possible that there are many, many bored people out there with nothing better to do than to try and hack through whatever type of safeguards the F@H crowd has implemented to prevent bogus statistics inflation.

I'm not saying that the Folding at Home project isn't worthwhile. I'm saying that the statistics aren't guaranteed to be valid. It was a problem that distributed.net experienced back in the 1990's. It was a problem that the Seti @ Home folks faced when they first developed their project. I wish I could remember which interview I read in which the Seti @ Home developers spoke about how they actually considered offering only private statistics to each individual user -- nothing public -- because a) they wanted people to remain focused on the science and the project goals, not stats, and b) they'd seen what "stat-fever" had done to the distributed.net project (i.e. dorks toying with their data verification methods). They gave in of course, because they realized that for many people -- especially the big contributors -- it's precisely the statistics competition that drives them to contribute. The actual project goals are secondary (at best) for those people.

So, personally, I keep in mind the following:

1. There are no guarantees that the statistics are valid.
2. When I read about a user with only a single CPU listed (for example) that is completing massive numbers of work units, I can't discount the possibility that it just means that someone has figured out how to return random garbage in a way that fools the initial checks done by the F@H project.

 

[Bozo]

i - I guess your glass is always half empty.

Out of the thousands of people folding I'm sure there are 10-15 that are cheating just to have big numbers.
But their numbers are dwarfed by the number of people trying to find a cure.

You have to have faith....

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[i]

Are you implying I'm pessimistic? :wink:

I prefer the term "realistic".

 

[Anathor21]

I imagine the data gets some cursory verification through some software process (that someone has probably found a way to defeat), and then it winds up sitting on a RAID array or on a tape somewhere...

It is not unreasonable also for them to send the same work unit out twice and compare results - at least some percentage of the work units (i.e. monitor for abuse/problems).

Just a thought... I'd seriously consider this approach if I were running such a project.

 

[P5-133XL]

They already re-submit some WU's: Those that are not returned in time and those that fail. It would not surprise me it they re-submitted WU's for other reasons too, like data re-verification.

 

[Will Rickards]

Why does my production suck so bad?

Notice the production for 12/02 through 12/05. It is great with 600 or greater points each day. Then look at after that. What happened? I checked and both F@H instances are running.

A little before 12/02 is when I switched the parameters for the service as Mark suggested.

 

[P5-133XL]

Check you log files for problems and 2nd check to see what WU's you are getting/submitting For P4's you want all QMD's and for AMD you want all to be Big WU's but in the end you really can't choose what you get. However, I do have great sucess getting continious QMD's for my P4 machines with my setup.

 

[Santilli]

Is the Dual Xeon working 24x7? If it does, then your unit production is abnormally low. Even with a single instance of the client running on it, it should average almost 400 points per day by itself.

No, it just works while I'm home, or around the house. Don't want someone else looking around my computer.

I changed the name of the Xeon to Gregory_Santilli, so both it, and the AMD 3000+ that is up 24/7, combine under one name, I hope. That's what appears to be happening.

GS

PS Exactly what settings should the two machines have for maximum output?

 

[P5-133XL]

I have them configured with a single F@H process (yes only run a single instance on your dual Xeon if you have large WU's tturned on) with Hyper-threading turned on; large WU's is turned on; and with the following parameters: -local -forceasm -service -advmethods -verbosity 9.

If you are using the console, you can reconfigure it by closing it (if you are running the program as a service, then you need to shut down the service) and manually running the console with the parameter -configonly. When finished reconfiguring it, you can then run it normally.

If you want to monitor its progress (especially if you are running it as a service), then you need a 3rd party monitor program: Tool list show several good ones.

If you want to run F@H as a service (recomended) then you will either need to edit the registry to use the above parameters; run a tool from the above tool link; or run something like FireDaemon-Lite-1_6-GA.exe that makes anything into a service.

 

[Bozo]

Greg:

I didn't read all this, but maybe it will help you setup your dual box.
Just make sure you use our team number

http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=25868

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[P5-133XL]

No, it just works while I'm home, or around the house. Don't want someone else looking around my computer.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Don't you have a firewall? You believe that F@H is doing illict things to your machine while you aren't there to monitor it. You don't mind if they look around your machine while you are on the machine but it is verboten while you are away; To me none of this makes any sense.

 

[Santilli]

No, it just works while I'm home, or around the house. Don't want someone else looking around my computer.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Don't you have a firewall? You believe that F@H is doing illict things to your machine while you aren't there to monitor it. You don't mind if they look around your machine while you are on the machine but it is verboten while you are away; To me none of this makes any sense.

Thanks Bozo!! Good article. My machine currently is running large wus, at least it appears so from the points vs. Wus completed.

Mark, it's not all that Big Brother. It's more like little sister. My girlfriend can create an hours work just trying to figure out what she's screwed up on my home theatre setup. The concept of leaving my main computer on, with my logged in as admin, and her on it, well, it's terrifying :excl: :wink:

We can't get the concept of, if the space heater is on, the old microwave blows the old circuit breaker, so check first. :roll:

How about we can't load the dishwasher in a way that gets the dishes washed, and keeps my favorite wine glass from breaking? :evil:

I just spent a couple hours cleaning up that mess, and shopping for snifters, and wine glasses. I'm going to try heavy, lead, Waterford Crystal this time, and, Waterford snifters, that are cheap, but thin. At least they never obselete a pattern, so, when she breaks one, I'll always be able to buy another.

GS

PS: If anyone would advise on how to swap fans on a Supermicro SCA
hot swap unit, I think it's the last noisy fan in the machine...

 

[LiamC]

Greg, I believe that leaded glass (crystal) and dishwashers are a bad mix. The alkaline detergent does bad things to that particular type of glassware.

 

[P5-133XL]

Whatever happened to Pradeep's weekend P4's?

 

[Bozo]

RE: Supermicro SCA unit.

On mine I removed the stock fan and installed a temperature controlled unit from Antec. 90mm?

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Pradeep]

Weekend P4s are sadly gone, one of my colleagues was going to bitch to the CEO about them, it was easier to stop running it, rather than fight about it.

Definitely want to wash good glasss in hot water yourself, dishwashers do some nasty stuff to it.

 

[Fushigi]

Mark, it's not all that Big Brother. It's more like little sister. My girlfriend can create an hours work just trying to figure out what she's screwed up on my home theatre setup. The concept of leaving my main computer on, with my logged in as admin, and her on it, well, it's terrifying :excl: :wink:

Password-protect the account on the PC and press Windows-L or Ctrl-Alt-Del then L to lock it. You're logged in enough for the FaH client to run but no one can use the machine w/o the password.

 

[Santilli]

THANKS ALL :excl: :mrgrn:

90mm, hmmm :?: I'll order a Vantec Stealth fan, and have a go at it. They have worked great in the other areas.

The tip on locking the computer is excellent, and, I didn't know how to do it.

Seasonic 600Watt power supplies are approved by cats around the world as an excellent source of heat ( my cat has been known to sit behind the server box, for that reason).

Lead crystal and dishwashers don't mix, so, hopefully, my girlfriend can remember that, AND NOT PUT THE NEW ONES IN THE DISHWASHER. It's funny, since she prewashes everything better then most people was dishes regularly.

16-18 foot swell is hitting the west coast. www.surfline.com

if you can get in, go to Swami's or Torrance Haggerty's for a nice look.

Wiamea looks like it might break, as well.

Thanks again.

Greg

 

[Santilli]

THANKS ALL :excl: :mrgrn:

90mm, hmmm :?: I'll order a Vantec Stealth fan, and have a go at it. They have worked great in the other areas.

The tip on locking the computer is excellent, and, I didn't know how to do it.

Seasonic 600Watt power supplies are approved by cats around the world as an excellent source of heat ( my cat has been known to sit behind the server box, for that reason).

Lead crystal and dishwashers don't mix, so, hopefully, my girlfriend can remember that, AND NOT PUT THE NEW ONES IN THE DISHWASHER. It's funny, since she prewashes everything better then most people was dishes regularly.

16-18 foot swell is hitting the west coast. www.surfline.com

if you can get in, go to Swami's or Torrance Haggerty's for a nice look.

Wiamea looks like it might break, as well.

Thanks again.

Greg

 

[LiamC]

FireDaemon-Lite-1_6-GA.exe that makes anything into a service.

404. looks like they have taken it down

 

[P5-133XL]

So they apparently have: I google-searched and found another source.

Firedaemon-lite-1_6-GA.exe.

 

[LiamC]

Many thanks Mark

 

[Gilbo]

I'm in Ottawa visiting family for two weeks. There have been a lot of breakins in my neighbourhood in Halifax lately so I had to shut down two A64 3000+'s and an Athlon XP 2500+ to hide them while I was away . However, I did manage to gain the services of a local P4 3.8E, so it's not all bad :mrgrn: .

Hell, if it was on 24/7 my production would probably have gone up.

 

[P5-133XL]

Mark, it's not all that Big Brother. It's more like little sister. My girlfriend can create an hours work just trying to figure out what she's screwed up on my home theatre setup. The concept of leaving my main computer on, with my logged in as admin, and her on it, well, it's terrifying :excl: :wink:

Password-protect the account on the PC and press Windows-L or Ctrl-Alt-Del then L to lock it. You're logged in enough for the FaH client to run but no one can use the machine w/o the password.

Or run F@H as a service (that way it runs regardless of your logon/logoff status). Then simply logon when you want to use the machine and logoff (but keep the computer on) when you are finished.

 

[Bozo]

Or just set up a screen saver that needs a password.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[CougTek]

[looking at our daily production]

So...we're giving up, aren't we?

I mean, less than 9000 points per day won't get us anywhere.

Pradeep was forced to slack down, Tea has stopped (probably for Aussy summer), Eric too. I seem to have pissed off Miksmi by not knowing who he was (which I'm sorry about).

We still have a bunch of important contributors, but we need to add some meat to the bone to avoid oblivion.

 

[CougTek]

Zx,

Before the end of the week, you'll be history :twistd:


And will someone please post the 2000th reply to this thread. It's annoying me like you can't imagine. Write something inspired ; it's the largest thread of this forum so its milestones deserve something special. Even the Apology To China thread at SR didn't go that far. I could do it (that would be a cliché), but I'm mister 1000th post, not mister 2000th post.