Gaming system: does hte CPU matter anymore?

[Tannin]

I have a customer with an Athlon XP 2800, 1GB DDR, and a Gforce 6 6600GT. He likes the gaming performance, but still wants more. I am reluctant to tell him he needs to spend even more on the video card than he just did - hey, AU$395 is the last sensible stopping place before you go into the stupid money department.

He is mostly interested in 1st person shooters and flight sims. I think that he'd get a real and noticable boost by going to something like an Athlon 64 3500, but I don't want to sell it to him before checking with you guys that it will be worthwhile.

Opinions?

 

[Bozo]

Although this write up is not about CPUs and gaming, you can see the performance scalling up with processor speed.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/pentium4-600/index.x?pg=6


Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Tannin]

Thanks Bozo. The really interesting thing is that all the game benches are at 640 x 480 - which no-one in their right mind would ever use. That seems to suggest that at a sensible real-world resolution - oh, maybe 1280 or so - the CPU wopuld become irrelevant.

 

[Pradeep]

Here's a good article on CPU and GPU scaling:

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2330

Page 6 and on has some interesting graphs showing where a cpu starts limiting a video cards performance

 

[Tannin]

Thanks Pradeep. That's a very interresting article, and tells me a good deal of what I need to know.

As I read it, it's a reasonable bet that an A-64 will make a significant difference in this case - well, certainly for half-life. This may or may not translate to other games, but I know flight sims are easy to select parts for - more of everything!

In this case, we will want to go Socket 939, and the severe supply shortages mean that the only two we might be able to get are the 3200 and the 3500. If I know Andrew, it will be the 3500 - he doesn't mess around.

The rough plan will be to go with the 3500, wait 6 to 12 months, upgrade the video card again, then in 1 -2 years time, switch over to something running PCI Express.

I'd still like to hear opinions on the benefit of going Athon XP 2800 to A-64 with this current video card so far as other current action games are concerned. Remember, I am a complete no-gamer so I don't know (or want to know!) what the particular games are, just an overall opinion.

Thanks again Pradeep and Bozo.

 

[Bozo]

I would think the resolution was set that low as to take the video card out of the testing loop. This way the frame rates were limited by the CPU rather than the video card.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Tannin]

Oh, undoubtedly, Bozo. But the question is, would the CPU make a difference at real-world resolutions? A quick look at those 640x benchmarks suggests to me that those particular games probably hit the GPU limit at .. oh ... maybe something around a Celeron 2000 .... and you could run them on a quad Xeon with nitrogen cooling and not get a better frame rate until you upped the graphics card.

In other words, this is telling me the opposite of what the Anand article Pradeep linked to tells me. Is this an artifact of the different (older vs newer) games?

Net result: I'm still confused.

 

[ddrueding]

Here's my limited chunk of experience. A R9800Pro was more than satiated by an A64-3000+, and an X800 was more than good with a 3500+. I think my 6800 still has some headroom over the 3500+.

 

[Mercutio]

My experience in the matter is not as extensive as some others, but in my opinion CPU speed is only relevant up to a point while gaming. If I play Doom 3 on an XP2800 or an Athlon64/3200, both with 1GB of RAM and both with a 9800 Pro, I really do have what I feel is an identical experience in the game, whereas if I try Doom3 on a 2400 I *do* notice a real difference.

I'd probably push toward more RAM before either CPU or graphics card, since that would probably make the most real-world difference.
If he had a 2500, maybe I'd lean toward upgrading that. But a 2800 is by no means slow, even when playing a game like FarCry or Half Life 2.

 

[mubs]

I'm chipping in late, didn't read the links in this post, and am not a gamer. But what I know is that for games, CPU cache size makes little difference. Clock speed is king.

 

[Santilli]

anyone know if the Radeon X850 Pro will run in a PCI-X • 1x 64-bit 133/100/66MHz PCI-X (3.3V) slot?
Thanks

gs

 

[Santilli]

If I have an 8X AGP slot, am I going to really benefit from a card for the PCI-x slot listed above? In other words, are the cards really outstripping the 8X AGP slot, enough to use a PCI-X slot?

How much data are the cards using? What's the limit for data transfer on a 8X agp slot, vs. a PCI-X slot, • 1x 64-bit 133/100/66MHz PCI-X (3.3V) slot?

thanks

G

 

[Pradeep]

Sounds like you are confusing PCI-X (which has been around for quite a few years), with PCI-E (PCI-Express). AGP 8x is plenty sufficient for todays cards I believe.

 

[Santilli]

Could well be...more research. Neck!

s

 

[Pradeep]

If I have an 8X AGP slot, am I going to really benefit from a card for the PCI-x slot listed above? In other words, are the cards really outstripping the 8X AGP slot, enough to use a PCI-X slot?

How much data are the cards using? What's the limit for data transfer on a 8X agp slot, vs. a PCI-X slot, • 1x 64-bit 133/100/66MHz PCI-X (3.3V) slot?

thanks

G

AGP 8x has more bandwidth than the PCI-X slot. I don't believe there are any PCI based ATI X800 cards, only AGP or PCI-E.

PCI-Express has more bandwidth than the AGP slot, another benefit is that you can run in SLI mode with two graphics cards in two PCI-Express slots.

 

[.Nut]

Gaming system: does hte CPU matter anymore?

Tannin, you need to get back into the habit of wearing your special close-focus owl spectacles when typing, otherwise, you could become permanently cross-eyed pecking out such long sentences on a daily basis -- if you haven't already.

This is particularly worrysome as "hte" would look like "the" to a cross-eyed owl.

 

[Santilli]

Hmm:
Athlon 64 2800 is about 100-120 from newegg.

Athlon 64 3200+ is 189.00 up.

is the extra .2 ghz worth nearly double the cost?

What value motherboard could you use with it?

I've got enough spare components to build another box...

Looking for a video card in the 6600Gt range and up.

s

Need to keep this in mind:
"Here's my limited chunk of experience. A R9800Pro was more than satiated by an A64-3000+, and an X800 was more than good with a 3500+. I think my 6800 still has some headroom over the 3500+."

 

[Handruin]

What games will you be playing? I don't think you'll notice a ton of difference. Plug the money into the graphics card.

How about this:
GIGABYTE "GA-K8NF-9" (800mhz HT 4x chip) $118.00
(or GIGABYTE "GA-K8N Ultra-9" (1000mhz HT 5x chip) $142)
Athlon 64 3000+ Retail $146 (winchester 90nm core)
GIGABYTE ATI Radeon X800 XL $332.00
Total: $596

 

[Santilli]

I'm still stuck on Quake 3, but we do some other stuff as well.

No On Lives Forever, Myst Exile 3,etc. Try and stay a generation behind the best and newest...

S

 

[CityK]

Hmm:
Athlon 64 2800 is about 100-120 from newegg.

Athlon 64 3200+ is 189.00 up.

is the extra .2 ghz worth nearly double the cost?

Greg,

Athlon 64 2800 = socket 754, 512KB L2 cache, 1.8GHz

as for the A64 3200+, well, there are three versions out in the wild...two of which are readily available:

Athlon 64 3200 = socket 754, 512KB L2 cache, 2.2GHz

Athlon 64 3200 = socket 939, 512KB L2 cache, 2.0GHz, but dual channel memory.

and the third is probably pretty rare now, if not long extinct in the distribution chain:

Athlon 64 3200 = socket 754, 1MB L2 cache, 2.0GHz

 

[Santilli]

Thanks CityK.

that helps a bunch.

Not up on the current Athlon offerings...

s

 

[CougTek]

The most interesting low cost CPU right now is the socket-939 version of the Athlon 64 3000+. Ok, it only runs at 1.8GHz, but it's made on the 90µm process and is easily overclockable. It's cheaper than the 3200+ too.

 

[mubs]

Overclockable to what speed, Coug?

 

[Pradeep]

Mine runs at 2.4GHz with no issues.

 

[mubs]

That's awesome, Pradeep! Can you please tell us what motherboard / RAM you're using with that processor? Thanks!

 

[Santilli]

Likewise intrested. Also include, if you would, any changes you would make to motherboard selection, etc. :?: :?:

s

 

[Pradeep]

I'm using:

MSI K8 Neo2 Platinum mobo
2*512MB Crucial Ballistix DDR
ThermalTake Tower 112 (f'ing huge, but a smaller cooler should also work fine.

If I was changing anything now, I would probably go with the K8 Diamond board (the one with PCI-Express slots). And also switch ram to OCZ or similar.

 

[time]

As I've pointed out here, I have the socket 754 equivalent on nForce3 also running at 2.4GHz, but it seems capable of much more.

I'd be surprised if the brand of motherboard made terribly much difference, as long as it's an nForce chipset with an nVidia design. Last time I messed around with this sort of thing, I found the RAM was the critical component.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Pradeep and time. I'm getting senile, so pardon me for nickeling and diming you. What HSF are you using?

 

[Splash]

...What HSF are you using?

I use a squirrel cage for cooling -- with a real squirrel inside!

Hungry Squirrel running for Food

 

[mubs]

You should be ashamed of yourself for mistreating a fellow creature. I'm telling the Humane Society.

 

[Pradeep]

I'm using:


ThermalTake Tower 112 (f'ing huge, but a smaller cooler should also work fine.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Pradeep. My mistake; I thought "ThermalTake Tower" was the case!