help me decide which case to get

[Jake the Dog]

OK,

I've finally settled one of either two cases in which to base a watercooled setup. trouble is I can't decide, so I'm petitioning for opinions:

the cases:

or

they are identical in ever respect except that the A6000A Plus is made out of 1mm aluminum. I'm not sure how much of a thermal benefit the A6000A will provide over the A5000A since both have well designed and implemented air flow systems. the A6000A costs a little under 35% more than the A5000A and although I can get both cases cheap ($214 vs $286), I don't see the point spending more if I don't have to.

I can match my CD and floppy drives to either black or aluminum so aesthetics aren't a factor. I won't be lugging this case around to LAN's very often so weight isn't a factor. I won't be modding it to show off so colour and style are not a factor.

so, keeping looks completely aside to the point, which case would YOU choose?

 

[Handruin]

OK,

I've finally settled one of either two cases in which to base a watercooled setup. trouble is I can't decide, so I'm petitioning for opinions:

the cases:

or

they are identical in ever respect except that the A6000A Plus is made out of 1mm aluminum. I'm not sure how much of a thermal benefit the A6000A will provide over the A5000A since both have well designed and implemented air flow systems. the A6000A costs a little under 35% more than the A5000A and although I can get both cases cheap ($214 vs $286), I don't see the point spending more if I don't have to.

I can match my CD and floppy drives to either black or aluminum so aesthetics aren't a factor. I won't be lugging this case around to LAN's very often so weight isn't a factor. I won't be modding it to show off so colour and style are not a factor.

so, keeping looks completely aside to the point, which case would YOU choose?

I would choose the A5000A plus. I don't believe there is a large (if any) benifit to an aluminum case when it comes to cooling especially when 90% of the left panel is plexiglass.

 

[blakerwry]

1mm steel vs 1mm aluminum... I'd get the steel.... although I am not very fond of Japanese Steel, I think it will provide a sturdier, more dent proof enclosure that should last for years.


It goes for $119 here (without the PSU)... but man if that isn't expensive for a case.... One of the things that makes up for the high cost are the 5 included 80mm case fans and hardcano 7 fan control "fan bus" w/ LCD temp display. (what are you going to do with those fans?? I imagine with the water cooled setup you will probably only need 2-3 and will use a larger 120mm or so fan to cool the radiator)

Personally, if I wasn't going to show it off I wouldn't get such a flashy case...

What are the build quality of the thermaltakes? i trust their fans and think their products are good, but have never seen their cases in person.

 

[Mercutio]

Observation on my part suggests that steel cases make quieter PCs.

 

[Clocker]

Steel!! If you were traveling a lot I'd say go with Al.

 

[honold]

i like aluminum, but it's not going to make a damn's difference in terms of heat dissipation. i buy it for the aesthetics/weight.

 

[Mercutio]

One of these days, if I ever figure out how to work a tool more complicated than a screwdriver, I'm going to make a mission-style oak chassis, to go along with all the furniture in my living room.

None of the traditional or non-traditional colors that computers come in go well with wood grain.

 

[CougTek]

i like aluminum, but it's not going to make a damn's difference in terms of heat dissipation.

Check the temps of your hard drive. Aluminum enclosures, while they don't change much of anything regarding the CPU and overall interior temperatures, are better to dissipate the heat from the hard drive. It's the only thing they are superior at compared to steel enclosures. Oh and they are lighter too, butsince Jake da Dog isn't going to move it much, no one cares.

Only 1mm thick aluminum is probably going to be fragile though. I've seen aluminum chassis with 2mm thick metal and it wasn't for nothing.

 

[blakerwry]

One of these days, if I ever figure out how to work a tool more complicated than a screwdriver, I'm going to make a mission-style oak chassis, to go along with all the furniture in my living room.

None of the traditional or non-traditional colors that computers come in go well with wood grain.

I might be interested in building something like this. I have a decent amount of woodworking experience. Having worked with wood since a small child, I've made benches and a gun case as well as some carvings and restorations of gun stocks and old furnature... not to mention helping out with numerous projects of my Father's and friends.

Do you think you'd prefer a traditional case with a venier or wooden exterior applied to it and probably a solid front panel... or should we go for a solid wood case?

The advantages I see for the venier are that their will be no shrinkage or warpage.. and the mobo/drives will easily mount/unmount from the case. You will also have a good ground incase that is needed for your Mobo/PSU.

Really, the solid wood sounds nice, and might look a bit nicer when completed.. but would be a real pain to get everything the right size and have to worry about splitting or warping. I think if you went the solid wood route, you might want to still use a mobo tray that comes with some cases and you would want some metal structure to mount the drives in.


I'm going to research this and try to come up with something(just because of my own interest)... if I'm happy with the results I'd be willing to sell you the case if you're still interested.


I think what would work best is 1/4" (dont know if i can find 1/8th") venier over the top and sides of a case, while removing the current front panel of my enlight 7237 and replacing it with a slide on cover made from Oak trim and solid wood. I would probably leave the back of the case exposed because of all the wires and such and the fact that it will never be seen... mmm... oak goodness.... now we'll need a plan for the drive covers and power switches.

 

[blakerwry]

let me know if you can find a matching stain for your furnature and i will pick some up.

 

[Cliptin]

And to complement the case:

http://www.woodcontour.com/products/lcd.html
http://www.casearts.com/woodlcd.html
http://www.woodcontour.com/products/index.html

PS. I once saw a custom dual side-by-side lcd monitor in a wood case on ebay.

 

[blakerwry]

You'd almost have to get LCD if you wanted your monitor to be wooden... the CRT's would produce too much heat I think

 

[Tea]

I think you'd want to veneer the timber to help it resist warping - i.e., like plywood but thicker.

 

[Buck]

So let me get this Dogman, you care nothing of the aesthetics or weight (you seem like a pretty strong bloke anyway), and they are identical in every other way save the metal used in construction. The only relevant point left in my opinion, is price.

 

[CityK]

Cliptin, you forgot the mouse....Note that the item pictured has been mislabeled as a toy, but don't let that fool you, its really a highly advanced I/O device

 

[bahngeist]

The concept of a wooden case is intriguing, and, at a practical level, may well serve as a better way to dampen sounds rather than using stuff like dynamat(?) etc.

As far as whether to go with solid wood or a veneer: it really depends on the person's skills and available tools. By veneer I expect people mean some form of panel: laminating actual veneer onto metal panels would be problematic in iteself, not only in ensuring the strips are aligned properly, but also the matter of adhesives (which are generally heat-set, which rules out plastic enclosures), how to apply even pressure, etc. And if one isn't particularly skilled, it may come out looking a proper mess.

Veneered panels have their advantages, but butt joints generally look tacky if some form of trim isn't used. The thicker panels also have the disadvantage that if you score, crack, or break part of the panel that piece is basically toast. Hardwood plywood exists, but I have never seen it thicknesses less than 3/8 to 1/2 in.

In short, the question is whether one wants a piece of shlock or something that comes closer to being a functional piece of fine furniture. The commercial wooden cases look interesting, but if I couldn't see one 'in the flesh', I wouldn't touch it since quality of materials and workmanship are important to me. To build one by oneself: as I said, it really comes down to one's skills and available tools. But if I were to do it, I would likely start with a metal case to provide the basic frame (a wooden frame probably would likely deteriorate due to the internal heat), and then use laminated strips (butcher block style) to form the front and side panels. This manner of construction has its advantages in that if done properly with a modicum of forethought it can be really attractive, can be repaired if necessary, and if properly maintained doesn't crack or warp.

But then, I used to work in a variety of cabinetmaking shops

 

[blakerwry]

I think I can get Oak plywood in 1/4" thickness at lowes or Home Depot.. you really think I would have a hard time adhearing this to the metal sides?

I figured I could use an adheasive such as liquid nails and if I 1st drilled holes in the metal at intervals I could push some of this adheasive through the metal to form a good even bond that won't come apart.

If I can't use an adheasive alone, it wouldn't be too hard to use a countersunk bolt to attach the wood to the metal.. you could fill in the hole with a short piece of dowel rod and it would barely be noticeable. Of course.. they'd have to be really small bolts.. maybe screws would work better now that I think about it.

 

[blakerwry]

concept drawing

 

[CityK]

You know if you stare at that picture for a few seconds it switches to a "from underneath looking out" perspective.

 

[Jake the Dog]

thanks for your commenst guys I think I'll be going for the A5000A

 

[Cliptin]

Cliptin, you forgot the mouse....Note that the item pictured has been mislabeled as a toy, but don't let that fool you, its really a highly advanced I/O device

Stop poking you brain and click a link.
http://www.woodcontour.com/products/mice.html

 

[blakerwry]

too bad they dont come with a wooden cord...

 

[Cliptin]

too bad they dont come with a wooden cord...

For a price, anything is possible.

 

[bahngeist]

I think I can get Oak plywood in 1/4" thickness at lowes or Home Depot.. you really think I would have a hard time adhearing this to the metal sides?

I figured I could use an adheasive such as liquid nails and if I 1st drilled holes in the metal at intervals I could push some of this adheasive through the metal to form a good even bond that won't come apart ...

Mercutio and yourself got an interesting thing started here; and I've been mulling it over in the back of my mind since.

1/4" oak plywood should be stiff enough given the dimensions of your usual mid-tower case. There way well be no need to even adhere such panels to any existing metal sides. The only reason for doing so is to have some way of removing the side panels to work on the system. Installing some manner of clip(s) may solve this problem.

Another possibility if you wish to use the metal panels is to inset the meetal side panels inside the wood (plywood) panels. This would entail attaching narrow strips along three edges of the side panels, and slipping the metal side sheet inside a channel created by using a table saw to cut a groove into the inside edge of the strip(s). The metal panels would then be slid into this groove -- the trick is to cut a groove that allows this action, but is narrow enough to provide the friction necessary to hold the metal panel in place.

My own personal experience is that adhesives that bond wood to metal surfaces effectively aren't easy to find. I doubt that you would find a truly suitable one in your usual hardware store or Home Depot. If you are serious, you may want to contact suppliers that serve the cabinetmaking and/or furniture industry. They may also suggest specialty fasteners that would suit the concept or, at the very least, provide a catalog that may give you some ideas.

You may also want to ponder why woodcontour.com doesn't make computer cases, given the fact that this would be the logical way to complete their product line (I was impressed by the apparent quality of their workmanship).

 

[Buck]

Wood enclosures. I can see the case being easy to build, and the rigidity reasonably sufficient. However, what about standards listings related to fire issues or other standards related to frequency interruptions? If I had the appropriate wood-working tools, the project would be tempting.

 

[Mercutio]

One idle thought and suddenly it's all anyone can talk about. Sheesh.


blakerwry, do you know what "mission style" furniture is? You can do a google image search as well as I can, but the basic description is generally unadorned, functional wood furniture that typically uses wooden slats (this is why a "mission" computer chassis would be a challenge) in whatever vertical support pieces are needed. Designs are very geometric; mission furniture is all about the wonderful lines made by the different pieces of wood in construction.

My thought for building such a machine would be essentially a low coffee table with a removable, securable top and room for a desktop-profile PC underneath. A hinged door could hide access to drives (or perhaps some kind of slot feed drive could be installed in an asthetically pleasing way). Cooling and airflow issues would need some serious work for something like that, but the end result could use almost all the design elements of mission style and still be highly functional as an enclosure.

 

[bahngeist]

... do you know what "mission style" furniture is? ...
My thought for building such a machine would be essentially a low coffee table with a removable, securable top and room for a desktop-profile PC underneath. A hinged door could hide access to drives (or perhaps some kind of slot feed drive could be installed in an asthetically pleasing way). Cooling and airflow issues would need some serious work for something like that, but the end result could use almost all the design elements of mission style and still be highly functional as an enclosure.

Ironically, I actually have a piece of furniture that comes close to that description -- but its top isn't removable. However, if I installed cut off rails inside (it is just large enough) I would probably have aprrox. 6U to work with, which makes it a potential housing for a basic home entertainment center. But no, I am happy with the way it is

And yes, a mission style case would be a challenge -- but doable with sufficient creativity. The point, Mercutio, is that you got people's creative juices flowing in a way that relates to this community's primary shared interest. It's refreshing.

And Buck is right, there is the matter of RF and fire standards to be concerned about -- the reason why a wooden framework for a computer isn't all that feasible, and why I suggested using an existing frame (sans the exterior panels) as the foundation. If this sharing of ideas continues, someone may actually latch onto a concept that has market potential.

 

[blakerwry]

Fire BAD!


standards shmandards... if i build it inside an existing case I don't forsee the computer getting hot enough to create a fire (which is what? atleast ~200F?)



mission style like this armour http://www.model-furniture.com/products/missionfurniture/images/mca.jpg is doable.. so is http://www.model-furniture.com/products/livingroom/occasionaltables/largerimages/974.jpg like these tables on the left...

The leftmost end table is only $200 and is 24" Wide x 27" Long x 22" High. I imagine you could find out if you could slide a rack mount case or something in here.

If a table is what you desire then you'd be better off buying one. Although I have seen tables made, I haven't made or designed one myself and I would hate to think of the shipping on an item like that.

 

[Mercutio]

The table in the middle right of that same image is close to what I'm thinking of. Maybe a little bit taller?

The interior of the case could always be lined with metal as an additional insulator, both from fire and from RF.

And hey, case mod: One of my tables has a stained glass top. That'd beat the hell out of a lucite window.

 

[Cliptin]

Ironically, I actually have a piece of furniture that comes close to that description -- but its top isn't removable. However, if I installed cut off rails inside (it is just large enough) I would probably have aprrox. 6U to work with, which makes it a potential housing for a basic home entertainment center. But no, I am happy with the way it is

Could you take a picture of it?

I have had this idea in the back of my mind for a while but without any woodworking experience or workshop I haven't acted on it. All of my furniture is mission style and I even know what I think the piece of furniture should look like but I can't draw very well. I may have to scan a pencil drawing.

 

[blakerwry]

what interests me about the tables is that it provides a possibility of getting your PC out into the open. IT HAS ESCAPED!!! You could put the computer in the family room and hook it to your TV if you wanted...

Fishing s-video under the carpet isn't too dificult... I know you can run thin composite cable under carpet without being able to tell when you walk on it... but s-video may be too much... perhaps you'd have to get a flat cable or make you're own... or just push it under the trim around the room if possible.... hehe.. or under the floor.

hehe.. drilling holes in the floor always gets me excited.


'nother day, 'nother mod

 

[Dozer]

Fishing s-video under the carpet isn't too dificult... I know you can run thin composite cable under carpet without being able to tell when you walk on it... but s-video may be too much... perhaps you'd have to get a flat cable or make you're own... or just push it under the trim around the room if possible.... hehe.. or under the floor.

Here's a non-invasive solution, albeit a bit pricey.

 

[blakerwry]

if you look at the pictures, specifically http://www.tigerdirect.com/images/SkuImages/gallery/large/G126-1010-b.jpg you will notice that it only has composite output (despite the fact that it can take s-video, composite, and HD15 input)

This is unacceptable in my view... seeing comparisions between RCA and Svideo... well.. there really is no comparison. RCA output is acceptable for things like movies and games, but trying to read text from it is just plain bad. In my view, an S-video solution is the only way to go.

 

[honold]

component > svideo

 

[blakerwry]

i realize this.. however most TV's don't have component unless thay are of the larger more expensive type... also, I don't think you will notice much of a difference(if any) on a standard NTSC TV.

 

[CityK]

very, very little ...... but you can rest assured you are using the highest quality analog interface connector.

 

[blakerwry]

that's why we need digital! right? EGA, CGA... woot woot.

 

[Dozer]

I agree with you on S-video being better. However, I am currently running a system with an output to my not-fancy-at-all Panasonic television via RCA. It actually is quite readable. I'm using an older model RageII PCI Video Out card. I've adjusted some things (made my default text bigger, etc.), and it's really not too bad. My ultimate goal is to purchase a flat screen television with component inputs, but as blake stated, they are a bit pricey, and I am simply not made of money. So until then, redneck rigging is the way for me.

Fortunately, the way I have my machine set up allows me to run the RCA cable directly to my receiver, which is in turn connected to my television. Hiding wire was not an issue.

 

[honold]

composite ('rca') cables burn my eyes out in about 3 seconds flat for any kind of a decent signal

 

[Handruin]

composite ('rca') cables burn my eyes out in about 3 seconds flat for any kind of a decent signal

I just hooked up my xbox with component cables to my TV and I notice a cleaner picture. Realistically it wasn't a drastic change, but I can see the difference! I have a regular TV, not HDTV.