How do people meet people?

[Tea]

Please excuseTannin, Merc. He's not very good with words. (That's why he likes to keep me around, even if I do have trouble with my "z"s.) What he meant is that there is not a real person inside the shell. There are lots of different real people inside you and inside Tannin. (Hell, I should know - I'm one of them! Or, more to the point, I'm at least 17 of them.) There are as many "real people" inside that shell of yours as there are football fans at the MCG in September, every one of them different and every one of them special. Most of them never come out in public - look at me, I was probably right here inside Tannin all along and no-one ever noticed until a couple of years ago, not even me - and many of them are very shy and hard to see, but they are all there, just waiting for the right moment and the right person to wake them up and bring them out into the sunshine.

There is a whole world of different people inside that cold public persona of yours, Merc. Make a choice.

Who do you want to be today?

 

[Mercutio]

Alone, with someone.

 

[Handruin]

Alone, with someone.

Sometimes when you open the door to let the cat in, you risk letting a few houseflies sneak by.

Maybe not as well conveyed as I want it to be, the point is, if you want to be alone with someone, you'll have to expose yourself to what is outside in order to find that someone, even if it's through the internet.

I know you may have filled out the questionnaire for that online dating site, but you shouldn't take to heart that one site couldn't find a compatible match. Who’s to say they even have enough people to make that match? In fact, I would have taken it as a compliment...they couldn't find someone good enough to match you up with.

If you took the risk to use one, why not try another?

 

[Howell]

Sometimes when you open the door to let the cat in, you risk letting a few houseflies sneak by.

Well said.

Merc, there is risk involved. That much you know all too well. You are just going to have to learn to deal (some how, some way) with possible rejection and take a chance.

 

[fool]

I almost responded to this thread several times. I didn’t because all my posts would have said was “I feel your pain”, which a; isn’t helpful, and b; isn’t true, I feel my pain which, while it feels to me a lot like your description of your situation, is my own. (god that’s an ugly sentence).

So all I was going to say was good luck, but then I had an idea that you just might find useful.

Thinking about what you and Tannin were saying about the real self/fake self/ multiple self/defensive self, it occurred to me that the consensus on this board is that anyone who doesn’t like Mercutio needs their head examining. Which is a very sound judgement. Of course someone coming across the “USS Romeo” may well form a different opinion whilst being no less sane than anyone else.

eg.

You're an extremely intelligent and nice young man.

I'm a guy who can come to work, do my job (er, on days when I'm not teaching, although one particularly grouchy morning I *did* try to make do with pointing and grunting), go home and then do it two or three more days, without speaking to anyone.

Who would guess the two are about the same guy

To come to my idea, why not get one or more of the members here to write a classified ad for you? A letter of introduction to Mercutio, as it were.

 

[mubs]

Growth is not possible without change. Change is often times painful. So is growth (that's why they call it "growing pains"). An absence of change (flow) leads to stagnation (cesspool). No pain, no gain.

All very worn, corny stuff, but true nevertheless.

Sometimes we take life and ourselves too seriously. It's good to lighten up now and then. To be a bit irreverent with ourselves.

 

[slo crostic]

Sounds to me like you need to dedicate some time to stop and smell the flowers. 90+ hours of work a week is ridiculous, isn't there something you'd rather be doing? Look back at the things you used to enjoy and take them back up as hobbies. Who knows, you may even meet someone with similar interests to you that actually likes you for the person you are. Or is all that a little scary? Rather hide in the office for 90 hours a week?

 

[Mercutio]

I've not forgotten this thread.

The truth is, I really don't have hobbies any more. I used to be a musician of sorts - a singer and a pianist - but my training and interest don't mesh well with doing those things in public - but I've had lots of souring experiences with doing that. Plus being out in public tends to make me ill. I don't miss being a musician.

Work is a reasonable substitute for everything else. Most of the time it's reasonably stimulating and probably better than anything else I could be doing. It's productive, at least. Unless I spend most of a day sitting around on SF.

Screwing around with computers really is as close as I can come to a hobby. I don't really do anything else. I manage to attend a concert about once every five years, I guess.

Without work - around the house or the kind that involves paychecks, or another person whose interests are different than mine - I have a hard time seeing how to fill up all the other hours of a week.

 

[i]

When was the last time you took a vacation?

 

[Mercutio]

In my adult life, never.

Every once in awhile, before I started the training thing, I'd get a few weeks off between jobs. Those times drove me nuts because I needed to look for more work.

To me, all a vacation would be is the opportunity to drive somewhere (or fly, I suppose, but seeing as there's noplace I want to go anyway, it really doesn't matter) else to spend time reading the same book I would've read in the comfy chair in my living room. I know better than to think I'd do anything different anyplace else than I would've done at home.

 

[Howell]

Since you don't go outside or interact with your community, what is it about Chicago that keeps you there now? You could do what you normally do anywhere.

 

[Mercutio]

One place is basically as good as any other.

At one time there were some roots related to schools and so forth. You're right that I could leave if I wanted, but there's no place I particularly want to go, either.

 

[i]

A few years ago while still recovering from a really rough period in my life, a friend asked me this question: "so you want to meet people, but you don't want to meet people?"

Of course I answered "yes".

Doesn't help you much Mercutio, but I think I've been there (though not to the extent you seem to be saddled with stuff). I suspect many have felt that way at some point.

The reason I suggested the vacation was because it would be an opportunity for a completely blank slate. Would something like the following appeal to you? ...

Go to Europe. London or somewhere where English (in some form :wink: ) is spoken commonly enough so that there's no language-related stress. Dedicate at least a week, and have it firmly in your head when your plane departs so you know exactly how much time you have. Then go take a look around. Visit stuff. And talk to people. FORCE yourself to talk to people. Everywhere. You're a tourist! You're supposed to act weird! (Just ask any of the Australians or Europeans here about the tourists they run into! :wink: ) Just say the first thing that comes to your mind. I suspect that, being in a new place with lots of historic and pseudo-historic stuff around, you'll manage to come up with something coherent to say.

But here's the thing: even if you don't come up with anything intelligible to say, it won't matter. You need to point that out to yourself. Even if you suddenly find yourself saying something like, "my cat's breath smells like cat food," it doesn't matter because you're just there for a little while. You'll never see that person again if you don't want to.

Any good? I figure that way you'd have the opportunity to ... practice. Practice talking to people that is. Maybe just spending a week somewhere completely, totally, 100% detached from your normal life - one in which you will know you'll never have to return to - would help. I think the others here have posted some really good ideas. I agree: I think you need some exposure. But you also need some practice: a chance to relax that part of your mind that looks after impromptu conversation, and then continue on and exercise it a bit. I think a good way to get that part of you to relax is to find a setting where you feel safe/confident, or where you know that it doesn't matter if things don't work right away. I think you need some time to get used to people in social, everyday circles!

 

[Tea]

An excellent suggestion, I.

 

[Mercutio]

I can't imagine doing anything like that. I mean that in a literal sense.
Pretending for a moment that I tripped over a phone and dialled the exact, proper sequence of numbers that I ended up with tickets to some faraway place, I can't imagine how I would occupy myself for that period of time, except to read books or to be online. The thought of visiting the attractions is shelved even before I think about it.

This is apparently why such a basic thing as relating to another human being is, to me, beyond my ability.

Anyway, I'm going offline shortly. I'm not sure when I'll be back. Presumably I'll either find my modems (still in a box somewhere) and dial in, or perhaps I'll break down and install a winmodem in one of my desktops.

 

[Tea]

Install a Winmodem ... Now I know you are serious.

BTW, you can always take a notebook with you and dial in from time to time. Hell - come to Australia: Tannin won't have the slightest difficulty in thinking up things to keep you busy. (More is the pity - damn slavedriver.)

 

[Jake the Dog]

I can't imagine how I would occupy myself for that period of time, except to read books or to be online.

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at east going through the experience once or twice. if you were to find yourself in an interesting places like Vienna, Amsterdam, Tokyo, Melbourne wink, etc, you find that there are a many , many things you can choose to do and none of which you had thought of.

Japan may not be a bad idea you know. I'm positive you'd enjoy Akihabara, Tokyo's Electronic town. it's a fascinating place to spend a few days and the amount and varying electronica products and gadgetry is absolutely phenomenal to say the least. the Japanese will also treat you politely and with respect, and certainly no intention to make you feel uncomfortable.

 

[Howell]

London or somewhere where English (in some form :wink: ) is spoken commonly enough so that there's no language-related stress.

An alternative is that if you go somewhere where you can't understand what other people are saying; it's like you are isolated from the society.

If you like being islotated from society anyway, at least you could visit other countries and still be isolated. *shrug*

 

[Mercutio]

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at least going through the experience once or twice?

I know myself well enough to say.

This is the part where I say that I more-or-less know what's going to happen to me for the rest of my life, so why even bother?

This is a very difficult thing to explain. I suppose I should just leave well enough alone.

 

[Jake the Dog]

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at least going through the experience once or twice?

I know myself well enough to say.

This is the part where I say that I more-or-less know what's going to happen to me for the rest of my life, so why even bother?

This is a very difficult thing to explain. I suppose I should just leave well enough alone.

well I must say I'm rather saddened to read you write that Merc. please, don't succumb to such defeatest thoughts, it's not right on any level. I challenge you provide just one good reason why it could be.

you, like most any intelligent person, has the ability to take at least some control of your own destiny. to resign to an undesirable fate because you weren't prepared to try (harder?) is not the smart thing to do so why would you choose to do this? because it's easy? how is it easy when it doesn't make you happy?

you have it within your power to instigate positive changes. you are trying in little ways, your original question in this thread is an example of this. this is a start, it's a great start in fact because it a movement in the right direction. all you need is to gather a bit of momentum and it'll become easier as you go along.

no one said it was easy. personally I think this is a good thing. where's the challenge in something being easy?

 

[Jake the Dog]

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at least going through the experience once or twice?

I know myself well enough to say.

This is the part where I say that I more-or-less know what's going to happen to me for the rest of my life, so why even bother?

This is a very difficult thing to explain. I suppose I should just leave well enough alone.

well I must say I'm rather saddened to read you write that Merc. please, don't succumb to such defeatist thoughts, it's not right on any level. I challenge you provide just one good reason why it could be.

you, like most any intelligent person, has the ability to take at least some control of your own destiny. to resign to an undesirable fate because you weren't prepared to try (harder?) is not the smart thing to do so why would you choose to do this? because it's easy? how is it easy when it doesn't make you happy?

you have it within your power to instigate positive changes. you are trying in little ways, your original question in this thread is an example of this. this is a start, it's a great start in fact because it a movement in the right direction. all you need is to gather a bit of momentum and it'll become easier as you go along.

no one said it was easy. personally I think this is a good thing. where's the challenge in something being easy?

 

[Jake the Dog]

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at least going through the experience once or twice?

I know myself well enough to say.

This is the part where I say that I more-or-less know what's going to happen to me for the rest of my life, so why even bother?

This is a very difficult thing to explain. I suppose I should just leave well enough alone.

well I must say I'm rather saddened to read you write that Merc. please, don't succumb to such defeatist thoughts, it's not right on any level. I challenge you provide just one good reason why it could be.

you, like most any intelligent person, has the ability to take at least some control of your own destiny. to resign to an undesirable fate because you weren't prepared to try (harder?) is not the smart thing to do so why would you choose to do this? because it's easy? how is it easy when it doesn't make you happy?

you have it within your power to instigate positive changes. you are trying in little ways, your original question in this thread is an example of this. this is a start, it's a great start in fact because it a movement in the right direction. all you need is to gather a bit of momentum and it'll become easier as you go along.

no one said it was easy. personally I think this is a good thing. where's the challenge in something being easy?

 

[Jake the Dog]

how can you properly imagine what you might or might not do without at least going through the experience once or twice?

I know myself well enough to say.

This is the part where I say that I more-or-less know what's going to happen to me for the rest of my life, so why even bother?

This is a very difficult thing to explain. I suppose I should just leave well enough alone.

well I must say I'm rather saddened to read you write that Merc. please, don't succumb to such defeatist thoughts, it's not right on any level. I challenge you provide just one good reason why it could be.

you, like most any intelligent person, has the ability to take at least some control of your own destiny. to resign to an undesirable fate because you weren't prepared to try (harder?) is not the smart thing to do so why would you choose to do this? because it's easy? how is it easy when it doesn't make you happy?

you have it within your power to instigate positive changes. you are trying in little ways, your original question in this thread is an example of this. this is a start, it's a great start in fact because it a movement in the right direction. all you need is to gather a bit of momentum and it'll become easier as you go along.

no one said it was easy. personally I think this is a good thing. where's the challenge in something being easy?

 

[Mercutio]

I can't live my life on the internet. I'm really not functional anyplace else.

I am otherwise convinced, after a lifetime of events, that almost nothing I do for myself has any impact on the outcome of my life. You can't will life to be different - you can't choose the path; it's chosen for you, a series of coincidences. Things just happen.

Had I the power to control my destiny I would have a vastly different life today. I know I couldn't've worked harder to get there. I know that I did the right things at every step, and I know for a fact that nothing I could've done would have brought me to any better place.

So why bother?

 

[flagreen]

Mercutio,

Life is about choices. We all make them - and each one we make effects our future lives for better or worse. You've made many of the right ones in the past which have resulted in the intelligent and decent person you are today. And like all of the rest of us you probably have made the wrong choice a time or two as well which did not have a positive effect on your future.

The point is that we do have choices. We do have some control, a lot of control in fact, over our future through the choices we make. Yes there are many things we can't change about ourselves. But there are also many things about our lives and future which we can change if we are courageous enough to make the decision to give it a try.

 

[Jake the Dog]

since you seem to have no intentions of doing anything about your own situation Merc, why take up our time in trying to help you?

 

[Mercutio]

I thought there might be something simple I've just missed somehow.
These things that you all have suggested are not simple. I don't really have an analogy or anything, but things - join a club, take a trip whatever - might be simple to someone else but they are not things that I am capable of doing on my own. In a different time, I had someone who helped with these things, who made them at least possible if extremely uncomfortable, but now I do not.

This is the nature of mental illness, Jake. Some people have to wash their hands 1,500 times a day. Some people have murderous psychotic rage, and some have severe social anxiety and depression.

Would you stick your hand in an open flame if you didn't have to?

I *know* there has to be something that can help. I don't know what it is. I *know* the right answer isn't to shut the world out completely. But it's the only thing that seems within my power.

 

[CougTek]

This is the nature of mental illness, Jake... Some people have murderous psychotic rage,...

Hey! Listen, I DO NOT SUFFER FROM A MENTAL ILLNESS. Now stop looking at me or I'll rip your head off.

 

[Jake the Dog]

Merc. I've spent years around manic depressives and I have been counseled by experts in the field. I do have a good understanding of the nature of your condition.

your words and reactions do seem typical of someone going through a period of depression except for one thing, you *are* still looking for ways to get out of it. as I said before, it's a start. when you stop and put up a wall like:

...almost nothing I do for myself has any impact on the outcome of my life ... So why bother?

you need to be reminded that others are thinking of you, ie:

why take up our time in trying to help you?

it's not meant to be a harsh comment. it's supposed to reinforce the mostly subconscious knowledge that are people that have an interest in your well-being. we're not family, we're not lifelong friends, we don't have a forced obligation to care about your allotment so why do we? cuz we like you. hopefully you like some of us. the fact that many of us have never seen your face or spoken directly to you has nothing to do with it.

there are many many people that you *could* meet that wouldn't judge you by your looks & mannerisms, they are just interested in who you are. are you insterested in meeting such people?

 

[slo crostic]

The truth is, I really don't have hobbies any more. I used to be a musician of sorts - a singer and a pianist - but my training and interest don't mesh well with doing those things in public - but I've had lots of souring experiences with doing that. Plus being out in public tends to make me ill. I don't miss being a musician.

What type of music did you play? Jazz? Blues? Classical? It's obvious you don't like playing anymore, but do you still like the music?
If so, why don't you get out to some clubs where people with similar tastes gather and get down to some diggin' tunes with them. Never know, you may meet someone who's just like you. If not, at least you've had a good time anyway.

 

[Mercutio]

Classical music. Something that, to the best of my knowledge, there are no clubs for. If there were, they would be populated with a greying audience. From the rare times I attended concerts, I can tell you that the average audience ages was well into its 60s.

I don't perform any more because people sought to take advantage of me in doing so. Whatever I did, people wanted to be free, people wanted more of my time, and people didn't really want to give me credit for what I had done. When I finally started setting limits as I do with my professional work, suddenly I was an uncooperative jerk. And since most of this work in some way involved churches, places where I wouldn't be comfortable in ideal circumstances, I decided that it wasn't worth it.

 

[Mercutio]

Merc. I've spent years around manic depressives and I have been counseled by experts in the field. I do have a good understanding of the nature of your condition.

May I ask where/why you have this experience?

Frankly, *I* don't know the extent of my condition, and I really don't know what to do about it. I saw a lot of mental health workers over the last year and got nowhere. The whole time I saw anyone, I felt there was an implied threat of hospitalization, and even more than that, my experience was that the people I saw weren't able to... keep up? Connect? Whatever, something was lacking in communication. I took to writing a very long paper describing recent events in my life, family relationships, the state of my well-being, as well as any "results" from previous therapists.

there are many many people that you *could* meet that wouldn't judge you by your looks & mannerisms, they are just interested in who you are. are you insterested in meeting such people?

I don't know who those people are, where they are, or how to meet them in a way that I might consider possible. This was in large part my impetus for starting this thread.

 

[slo crostic]

I think you need a little change in your life. Try doing at least one thing a little bit differently each day. It doesn't have to be anything big, just a small change. If you normally drive to the shops, walk instead one day. Something as simple as this can give you a different perspective on life in all sorts of ways.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm having a raelly rough time tonight. I read something - accidently - that absolutely magnified all the depression and isolation I feel.

No one has to read this or anything but it's the best thing I can think of doing right now. I don't know how to explain it but I literally read like 3 sentences in a novel and I literally vomited.

I just want all this shit to be over. I want to forget the last ten years or to just not care any more or something. Sleep until it doesn't matter. What I have is gangrene of the brain. There isn't any cure for any of it. I could spend the rest of my life on serotonin-uptake enhancing pills and every dime I have on therapy and... there's no cure and there's no change. This is the rest of my life. I'm some kind of lower life form. An animal that does tricks is still an animal.

Typing makes thoughts come slower. Someof them dn't make sense but thnking them hurts.

So for that stupid reason I write this to tell me all about it. I don't really know why... I just need to say something and talking to myself might seem even worse. Maybe work it out. Maybe I eed to call someone. I need to calm down somenw, ormaybe just not by myself.

I'm going to go now. For awhile anyway.

 

[Mercutio]

The above post can be deleted. Probably should be.
I'm not OK but no one should have to read that.

 

[Tea]

So stop fucking about with half measures, my friend.

Jump on a plane, come over here to where the summer is just about to start, and let's start living.

You will have a roof over your head and a job for as long as you want it. You won't earn much to start with, but you'll have everything you need, as we never work too hard at Red Hill. And if you want to earn more, a well-respected computer shop in a small town is like a gold mine - you want to get richer, you just dig a bit harder. Or, you can just sit back and take it easy same as we do, and just make enough to keep you in shoes that don't have holes in 'em. Your call.

It's a town of 80,000 people, which is big enough to have a little fun. If you want more, Melbourne is barely more than an hour away and there are 3.5 million people there. Plus one of the world's better orchestras, chamber music galore, whatever you want. Melbourne would be one of the ten biggest cities in the United States (if it wasn't in Australia).

You meet people all the time in this job. Lots of them are nice - and the ones we don't like, we just over-quote by 15% and they don't bother coming back.Tannin is laid-back and couldn't care less about the money side of things so long as he has a few hundred for pocket change. We don't open the door till 11:00, we close at 5:00, we lock the door and take the phone off the hook for an hour at lunchtime, and we never work weekends. Kristi is a delight to work with, Mutiah and the Soup Nazi drop in every now and then. It's a damn good life.

Hell - for two pins you could have my job ... er ... who am I at the moment? ... Tea. Right ... I mean you could have Tannin's job, as he and I would dearly love to move somewhere further away from the big smoke before too many more years go past - lots further and do just enough computer work on a part-time basis to keep us in bananas, cameras and flash cards. With luck, we can grow our own bananas and sell a few pictures.

I ain't kidding, Merc.

Come on over. You'll love it.

 

[Tannin]

She ain't kidding, Merc.

http://www.austemb.org/DIMA/
http://www.immi.gov.au/e_visa/

Or call 1 888 990 8888

 

[Mercutio]

I ended up doing something like that. I couldn't answer all the questions they asked in such a way that I could really be... helped, but after I posted that and talked to someone on the phone for a good long while I at least got calmed down enough to relax a little bit.

I basically had a manic episode. I can't describe it because there's just no way to make any sense out of it. When I wrote the post that (I still want it deleted - JoJo hasn't done a moderatorly-thing yet), that was as close as I could come. It doesn't make sense to me now, and I'm the person who actually knows what I was thinking.

I'm going to try to see a doctor today. I seriously can't live like this.

 

[mubs]

So stop fucking about with half measures, my friend.

Straight to the point, hairy-one. We've been trying to tell Merc that for years, but in a not-so-pointed way.

Jump on a plane, come over here to where the summer is just about to start, and let's start living.

Really, you need to make a drastic change like that, Merc. Think of it like clothes; when you've been working in the yard and they get dirty you change, don't you? When the current life-style bothers you , change.

Change is the key. No change, no relief. Read that much mentioned book, "Who moved my cheese".

 

[Tannin]

Delete the post yourself, Merc, if you want. But it ain't that bad, honestly, I've seen a lot worse. (Oh - I was forgetting - you don't have your badge and gun any more. I get more like Tea every day.)

We were quite serious, you know. You want a working holiday in Australia, come right on over. It's easy to get a working holiday visa, and you can extend it once or twice, and then I write a letter to the immigration department explaining how people with your particular skill set are just impossible to find and, as an Australian-owned business, we really need you, and (with an ounce of luck) you can stay forever if you want to. Hell - it would probably be true by then.

Or, after a few weeks/months/whatever, you start to miss the grime and noise of urban America, so you go home feeling fit, tanned, relaxed and refreshed.

Your call.

It's your life - make it happen.