i7 920 Motherboard and operating system?

[Santilli]

No wonder you're so cranky with a 10 year old system.

A more prudent strategy would be buying lower end systems and upgrading much more frequently, but I'm sure you've been told that before.

HMMM.

What would you suggest?

http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8006

The above thread is for a gaming system Snowhiker is putting together. It's 900 dollars, without an SSD. Passmark score 4,214. So for me, it would still be at least 1200 dollars, with SSD's.


I've wondered about that. I built two systems in around 2006-7 for school and home. Cost around 1200-1400 to get Athlons 3200+, and reasonable quality components. IIRC, 471-494's on Passmark. David built them, and did an excellent job.
My dual 2.8 ghz Xeons ran 889 on passmark. The Xeon machine was built in around late 2001.
The perception of speed by the way is about accurate. The Xeons STILL feel about twice the speed of the Athlons, both of which are still in the house. Also, the processor usage is much higher on the Athlons.


I have little doubt that if you are in the business, or a computer expert, you can find deals on computers, upgrade them more often, write the boxes off on taxes, and do better then I in the long run. However, perhaps you are forgetting the labor involved
in putting a computer together. Like mechanics, the computer guys around here seem to think they are the new doctors, charging 80-150 dollars an hour. My roommate was charged 150 dollars by The Geek Squad to have them tell him they couldn't figure out what was wrong with his Compaq laptop, and, that they needed more time, read money,
to figure it out. It wasn't worth 150 dollars...

Plus, these guys aren't the group here. They know less then I do,and, you need to get to the manager, or top guy to really find someone that knows his stuff. They are usually off doing some corporate job, anyway.


The 940 should be about 6,152 on passmark, and, everything else, is going to be correspondingly faster.

I guess I just don't see much in the more often cheaper argument.

The price I'm paying for this is VERY good. I'd be a fool NOT to buy it.

That said, I'm 56. I could be dead before it's time for the next upgrade cycle. I can't take it with me...

The cranky part comes in when you are running XP, and can't figure out why Power DVD 9 Ultra won't play certain Bluray disks correctly. Even with the latest drivers, and a 4670 ATI Radeon Video card...

 

[Stereodude]

I only have one question. Why are you buying a system built around a dead socket?

Well, actually I have two. What is the parts list you're buying?

 

[Santilli]

Intel i7 940 @ 3Ghz
12GB DDR3 DRAM
Gigabyte X58 Chipset Motherboard
nVidia GeForce GTX 295
2x 120GB Intel X 25M in RAID0
BluRay Burner
Antec P183 Chassis
Seasonic 700 PS

Why is 1366 dead?

Not that it matters. I've yet to see a cpu upgrade that actually made a double speed improvement, and was worth the money, without the socket changing...

At about 6,100 on passmark, the next upgrade I'll be looking for will need to be about 12,000.

 

[Mercutio]

The Greg Santilli Memorial 100% Impractical Laptop:

The Eurocom D900F Panther
Dual Xeon 5590s, up to four 512GB SSDs or standard 3.5" drives, 17" screen, Geforce 280.

No idea how much it weighs or how long the battery lasts. I suspect 15lbs. and 15 minutes, respectively.

No word on whether or not it has a PCI-X slot.

 

[Santilli]

I follow your advice, and you make fun of me???? NICE.

 

[Mercutio]

I follow your advice, and you make fun of me???? NICE.

It just reminded me of the last several months of discussions on this very topic.

Greg, you need to spend less time looking at goofy benchmarks. Seriously. The way you're describing the computer you want to have seems to be by the benchmark score that it achieves. You sound like my brother when he's describing his home audio setup.

 

[LunarMist]

No wonder you're so cranky with a 10 year old system.

A more prudent strategy would be buying lower end systems and upgrading much more frequently, but I'm sure you've been told that before.

Only about 38 times this year.

 

[ddrueding]

The Greg Santilli Memorial 100% Impractical Laptop:

The Eurocom D900F Panther
Dual Xeon 5590s, up to four 512GB SSDs or standard 3.5" drives, 17" screen, Geforce 280.

No idea how much it weighs or how long the battery lasts. I suspect 15lbs. and 15 minutes, respectively.

No word on whether or not it has a PCI-X slot.

Just spec'ed it out, $10k the way I would want it. I suspect I'll just get a Shuttle instead.

 

[Mercutio]

Just spec'ed it out, $10k the way I would want it. I suspect I'll just get a Shuttle instead.

Can you actually get a dual i7-based Xeon in an SFF chassis?

 

[Handruin]

Intel i7 940 @ 3Ghz
12GB DDR3 DRAM
Gigabyte X58 Chipset Motherboard
nVidia GeForce GTX 295
2x 120GB Intel X 25M in RAID0
BluRay Burner
Antec P183 Chassis
Seasonic 700 PS

Why is 1366 dead?

Not that it matters. I've yet to see a cpu upgrade that actually made a double speed improvement, and was worth the money, without the socket changing...

At about 6,100 on passmark, the next upgrade I'll be looking for will need to be about 12,000.

Greg, read here, and here. If you haven't found the 940 yet, you better get on it. I don't see them listed in most places for sale. The 920 is a great buy if you have a microcenter near you. Check my earlier post.

 

[ddrueding]

I couldn't find a dual-socket on that website, either. That was just a single 5590.

 

[Mercutio]

I couldn't find a dual-socket on that website, either. That was just a single 5590.

Meh. The guy who was spouting off about it on Slashdot said it was dual. I didn't actually look.

 

[Santilli]

Greg, read here, and here. If you haven't found the 940 yet, you better get on it. I don't see them listed in most places for sale. The 920 is a great buy if you have a microcenter near you. Check my earlier post.

Computer is pretty much done. A couple removeable drive bays to put in, deciding what to do with a couple 30 gig vertex turbos I bought, and I should pick it up this week.

Handruin:

Thanks for the excellent advice. This is a used computer, and, a total package.
I agree the 920 is the sensible price point, if I was shopping, and trying to put everything together.

As for sensible, and buy a lower end system more often:

The benchmarks pretty much tell it all. I have asked for a way to compare the recommendations, since 7 years after I built my dual Xeon machine, I paid about 500 dollars less for a 'sensible' system, on advice given here, two of them actually, that had a processor about half as fast as the dual xeons.

The price difference between 'sensible' upgrades, more often, and big ones isn't enough of a vector for me to go for the sensible upgrades.

In other words, the computer cpu makers make sure you pretty much need a new motherboard, new ram, cpu, power supply, storage system,and video card. When you put it all together, as noted in another game building thread, your price/cost for a decent system is going to be about 1200-1500 dollars. You aren't going to be able to upgrade it much, so don't think about it.

I'm more then delighted to spend 2000 or so, and get enterprise class stuff.

In other words, in 2001, I spent about 2200 dollars on the dual xeon machine, that was twice as fast as the 'sensible' athlon machines I built in 2006. The sensible machines, with quality components still ran 1200-1500 each. I have no problem with the extra cost to go with the better components. You can be sensible buying enterprise stuff, and, the end result is more for your money then the lower stuff.

When I started adding up motherboard, cpu, ram, operating system, and even retaining the SSD's and scsi for storage, and the seasonic power supply, I'm STILL approaching 1500
dollars for building a 920 based system, in my cat heater.

Better to buy the complete, tested, used package.

The difference in performance between a 2000 dollar system and a 1200-1500 dollar
system seems to be that you get much more for your money spending the extra 500 dollars after the initial outlay.

 

[Handruin]

HMMM.

What would you suggest?

http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8006

The above thread is for a gaming system Snowhiker is putting together. It's 900 dollars, without an SSD. Passmark score 4,214. So for me, it would still be at least 1200 dollars, with SSD's.

For the somewhat cheaper (than your config):

Core i7 860: $200 (PassMark 5,576)

GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3: $120

4GB Corsair XMS3 RAM (2x 4GB @ 8-8-8-24): $115 (double if you want 8GB)

Antec P183: $130 after MiR

Sony Optiarc DVD-RW: $27

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM: $90

Corsair 750W power supply: $110 after MiR

Video card (something around $150-$200)

That's about $942. I really think you'd be hard press to feel the difference between this and the Core i7 920 and maybe even the 940. Also, do you need 12GB RAM?

Optional:
Intel X25-M: $269

I'll leave the BR burner up to you. I don't know what drives are good these days.

 

[Handruin]

For whatever it's worth, my Core i7 860 at stock speeds rates 5,825 using their software benchmark which is higher than that chart shows as an average of 5,575. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference otherwise.

 

[Mercutio]

Remember that i7s self-overclock by about 10% in actual operation. So your 2.6GHz i7 will turn into 2.8something once it gets going.

 

[Santilli]

For the somewhat cheaper (than your config):

Core i7 860: $200 (PassMark 5,576)

GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3: $120

4GB Corsair XMS3 RAM (2x 4GB @ 8-8-8-24): $115 (double if you want 8GB)

Antec P183: $130 after MiR

Sony Optiarc DVD-RW: $27

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM: $90

Corsair 750W power supply: $110 after MiR

Video card (something around $150-$200)

That's about $942. I really think you'd be hard press to feel the difference between this and the Core i7 920 and maybe even the 940. Also, do you need 12GB RAM?

Optional:
Intel X25-M: $269

I'll leave the BR burner up to you. I don't know what drives are good these days.

Handruin:
As you have pointed out: the 920 is avaliable for the same price as the 860, though both are about the same speed.

That is what I was looking at, or something similar, when I priced it out at newegg.com.
Sometimes it's better to buy a used, tested system then a new one...
If I go with your build, i'm at 1211, plus 10% Kali sales tax, 1331. A Bluray writer is 227.
I'm right around 1500 again.

Trust me, the price is right on this system.

Greg

 

[Handruin]

Remember that i7s self-overclock by about 10% in actual operation. So your 2.6GHz i7 will turn into 2.8something once it gets going.

I know, I've done a lot of reading and experimenting with it. It's base speed is 2.8GHz (21x) and single and dual threaded apps have shown to boost close to 3.4GHz (25x multiplier). If multi-threading is occurring the clock will jump to 22x on all four cores. I used Argus Monitor while playing with process affinity for an afternoon.

 

[Pradeep]

I'll leave the BR burner up to you. I don't know what drives are good these days.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129051

 

[Santilli]

PASSMARK results for my system:

Handurin:

Makes it fun to compare to your machine.

This is with Avast running.

 

[Stereodude]

For whatever it's worth, my Core i7 860 at stock speeds rates 5,825 using their software benchmark which is higher than that chart shows as an average of 5,575. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference otherwise.

Passmark scores aren't comparable between Vista and Windows 7. Unfortunately they didn't sort it for that, so their database and the scores are all now worthless.

 

[Handruin]

This is the system I just bench marked:

* CPU: Intel Core i7 860 (2.8 GHz Lynnfield)
* Motherboard: Gigabyte P55M-UD4
* Memory: 4x 2GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 (8-8-8-24 1.65v)
* Video: eVGA 8800GT
* Case: Antec P183
* Power: PC Power & Cooling 750W
* Storage: WD 300GB Raptor 10K RPM
* Storage: 2x Samsung 1TB 7200 RPM (Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ)
* DVD: Sony Optiarc AD-7240S
* Monitor: Dell U2410 24″ LCD (H-IPS panel)
* External: Samsung 750GB SATA with antec eSATA enclosure
* External: Seagate 750 GB firewire
* Cooling: Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm Case Fan

Mine isn't running any AV on the system. A few system try processes were loaded such as AnyDVD, Pandora, and mouse driver.

 

[Handruin]

Passmark scores aren't comparable between Vista and Windows 7. Unfortunately they didn't sort it for that, so their database and the scores are all now worthless.

I didn't realize, but just as a point of reference for Greg, I posted whatever the scores were. I tested under Windows 7 64-bit using their 64-bit version of the software.

 

[Santilli]

I didn't realize, but just as a point of reference for Greg, I posted whatever the scores were. I tested under Windows 7 64-bit using their 64-bit version of the software.

Thanks Handurin:

I hate to think what XP Pro does to their testing. None the less, thank you very much.
This gives me an excellent reference point to compare systems.

The only category that is close is the Disk Mark. Your video card is much better at 2d then mine, and, the 4670 appears to be decent at 3D.
Don't know if the CD Mark is due to a slow, old 3520, or, putting a DVD in for the test.

I should enjoy the new system.

 

[Santilli]

Handurin:
That Argus stuff is really cool.
WHAT did you do to max out the processor?

 

[Handruin]

I downloaded Prime95. You can set a custom torture workload in Prime95 and tell it how many threads you want it to execute. I did the different tests setting different number of threads to run. After it began, I went into task manager and played with processor affinity.

Greg, what storage did passmark test on your system? Just as a reference, my Disk Mark score of 772 was for the WD raptor (my C:\ drive). Yours was 679, but what disk (or RAID array) was it run against?

 

[Pradeep]

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=454&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5

I want it.

 

[Santilli]

I downloaded Prime95. You can set a custom torture workload in Prime95 and tell it how many threads you want it to execute. I did the different tests setting different number of threads to run. After it began, I went into task manager and played with processor affinity.

Greg, what storage did passmark test on your system? Just as a reference, my Disk Mark score of 772 was for the WD raptor (my C:\ drive). Yours was 679, but what disk (or RAID array) was it run against?

HMMMM
That was run on the Vertex Turbo Raid 0, on the 9550 card.

Here is the ATTO result:

Something is bottle necking the drives, or, maybe that's as fast as the card can run the two drives. I do have two more I was thinking about adding, but, that would mean an entire system reinstall, unless I clone the OS to one of the SCSI drives, then move it back.

Still, it might be fun, but why bother?

The new system will use the drives to their full potential. The twin Vertex Turbo Raid O makes for a snappy OS drive.

 

[Santilli]

I was just thinking only one of the drives might be faster on the raid card.
However, 30 gigs is what my OS and program installs run. I need the 60 gigs for space.

 

[Handruin]

Attached is the results from my WD Raptor 300GB. Seems I must be hitting a wall with mine also. The read and writes are topped out in the larger sizes.

 

[Santilli]

Strange
Here is the result from a used Velociraptor that I'm using in the Athlon 3200+, with Gigabyte mobo. Plugged into said motherboard:

 

[ddrueding]

I'd never heard of this benchmark before. This is for the rig in my sig.

It looks like the board is taking my nice PNG and turning it into an illegible JPG?

 

[LunarMist]

I'd never heard of this benchmark before. This is for the rig in my sig.

It is illegibly small.

 

[ddrueding]

Yeah, doesn't seem to like 8-bit PNGs...whatever. I fixed it now.

 

[Santilli]

Just ran it on the Athlon 3200_ Gigabyte, velociraptor, 9600.

Now I have to go in the other room and compare them on my dual screens;-)

 

[Handruin]

This is what my HD tach looks like on the raptor.

 

[Stereodude]

Well, I feel left out. I don't have one to benchmark.

 

[LunarMist]

Of what use is the new benchmark?

Well, I feel left out. I don't have one to benchmark.

What is missing that prevents using the benchmark?

 

[Handruin]

It's just to compare some stuff here. I don't know how useful it really is.

 

[Stereodude]

Of what use is the new benchmark?

It mostly useful for online dick waving contests. :rofl:

What is missing that prevents using the benchmark?

I don't have a Raptor or VR. I was referring to all the Raptor and VR benchmarking.