Lag time on cable, vs. ADSL

[Santilli]

Hi
I'm giving cable a try, and, we are at about 3-5 mb/sec, with a 40ms ping time.

ADSL was 1.2 mb/sec, don't remember the ping time.

So, questions are:
Why would the cable sometimes have a bit of a lag in getting to certain sites?

Why does Astound charge. 4.75 for a late fee, when that's illegal in Kali?
Should be 1.2% per month.

Phone company charges 2.50 dollars, and 2%, which maybe legal, if the account has multiple services.

Kali law is 1.2%, but, our wonderful congressfolk approved a higher
charge if the person has multiple services with the same company.

Figure that one out...

 

[Bozo]

The lag could be the server you are connecting to, not the method you use to connect.

Bozo :joker:

 

[blakerwry]

I noticed the local SBC DSL network having more lag than Time Warner cable, but it simply depends on your local carrier and how their network is setup. Cable vs DSL doesn't make nearly as much difference as what you will find between one carrier and another.

 

[blakerwry]

I noticed the local SBC DSL network having more lag than Time Warner cable, but it simply depends on your local carrier and how their network is setup. Cable vs DSL doesn't make nearly as much difference as what you will find between one carrier and another.

 

[Santilli]

While much faster, most of the time, I'm getting timed out messages I didn't before.

Is there a setting on my machine that could be causing that, or on the router?

 

[ddrueding]

If you haven't made changes to your system, you likely aren't the issue. As Blake and Bozo said, the biggest differences are the webservers and the ISP itself. The tech (DSL/Cable/whatever) makes very little difference for simple surfing. Even a $500/mo T-1 gives timeouts if the 'net in general is misbehaving.

 

[Santilli]

Well, it's monday night, and, I'm between 700k and 3 mb/sec, with more of them below 1.5 mb/sec.

Ping time has gone up to almost 70, and, my ADSL has never tested below 1.2 mb/sec, regardless of when I tested it.

I could still cancel the service. When it's working at 5 mb/sec, it's nice, but, when it's not, it really sucks.

Prior, I had no doubt it was worth it. Now, I'm not so sure...

 

[Clocker]

Not sure what effect it would have on download speed, but responsiveness could be impacted by the DNS server that you are using. Try using OpenDNS for your DNS server and see if there is any change...

 

[ddrueding]

The most fundamental difference between DSL and cable:

Cable is one large pipe for you and all your neighbors, DSL is a smaller pipe just for you.

Typically this doesn't matter because the local pipe is big enough and the ISP is oversold on bandwidth anyway. That doesn't seem to be the case where you are.

I have cable. I prefer the faster bandwidth overnight for large downloads, and even the slightly slower speeds during prime time are fine for basic surfing.

 

[Mercutio]

With DSL you only have guaranteed bandwidth to where ever your phone company has its lines going. You still have shared bandwidth from that point on (of course, it's a phone company, so capacity probably isn't a huge issue for them).

Cable service can vary widely. One cable segment can be wonderful while another one sucks horribly. I've moved to Comcast business service at home after noticing that Comcast gives business users a quasi-static IP and doesn't do (much) traffic shaping on the connection at my office. As a result, my service went from atrocious to actually tolerable, and I'm finding that I can actually achieve my advertised upstream connection speeds from time to time.

I can also argue that this is the level of service Comcast was supposed to provide for 1/3 the price as a Comcast Home customer, but frankly I'll take the expensive version if that's what it takes.

 

[Mercutio]

With DSL you only have guaranteed bandwidth to where ever your phone company has its lines going. You still have shared bandwidth from that point on (of course, it's a phone company, so capacity probably isn't a huge issue for them).

Cable service can vary widely. One cable segment can be wonderful while another one sucks horribly. I've moved to Comcast business service at home after noticing that Comcast gives business users a quasi-static IP and doesn't do (much) traffic shaping on the connection at my office. As a result, my service went from atrocious to actually tolerable, and I'm finding that I can actually achieve my advertised upstream connection speeds from time to time.

I can also argue that this is the level of service Comcast was supposed to provide for 1/3 the price as a Comcast Home customer, but frankly I'll take the expensive version if that's what it takes.

 

[blakerwry]

The most fundamental difference between DSL and cable:

Cable is one large pipe for you and all your neighbors, DSL is a smaller pipe just for you.

With DSL you only have guaranteed bandwidth to where ever your phone company has its lines going

That description has been used forever, but it isn't necessarily (or even often) true.

With DSL your modem connects to a DSLAM where dozens or hundreds of other subscribers connect to, from there it's typically backhauled to a network core. That backhaul link may be an OC-48/12/3, or it may be a T3 or even a T1 shared among many people.

With Cable, you typically connect to a neighborhood node which may be shared among dozens of subscribers, from there it's backhauled to a CMTS via OC-3 or faster lines where hundreds or thousands of subscribers connect.


The point is, your connection is shared at many points. Any one (or several) of these pieces can be overloaded/oversubscribed.

Typically this doesn't matter because the local pipe is big enough and the ISP is oversold on bandwidth anyway. That doesn't seem to be the case where you are.

And this is the universal limiting factor for all ISPs. Most ISP's have two or three connections to a national carrier like Cogent, Sprint, ATT, MCI, XO, Level3, Qwest, etc. The amount of bandwidth they purchase from these carriers has little to do with how much bandwidth they sell to subscribers, and more to do with their usage during peak periods. I'm sure it's typically oversold 100 or 1000 to one, which doesn't present itself as a problem with bursty traffic like WWW/Email, but when people start using all of their bandwidth for services like streaming video and p2p you start to see delays, loss, etc.


A traceroute out of your ISP's network should quickly tell you where your problem lies (with the ISP or outside). You'll see sharp increases in latency anywhere there's a delay.

 

[Santilli]

Ok.

This deserves a bit of writing. We've had three guys come out. First two are basic setup guys. The guy today knows a bit more, but, he's a MAC guy!;-( ;-)

Anyway, over a number of cups of coffee, I sort of found out the history of cable in this area.

Early this morning I had called ATT and stopped the cancel ADSL order.
So, I still have both services right now. The wiring used for the ADSL, and, the static IP I'm charged for, 25 bucks a month, are consistent, with ping times around the same speed as the Astound cable. However, it runs about 1.3 mb/sec. But, it had none of the weird lag stuff.

Turns out the cable the #2 installer connected to is Comcast cable, copper, dating back about 30 years, at least the cable does. It's broken down, and, was sending electron leaks everywhere, found with a 'sniffer'. What the guy did was test the line, then, finding it's totally trashed, bypassed it, with a direct install from the box, to my router.

That has solved PART of the problem. The connection is fast, and, the latency, which he explained was that due to the leaks in the system, I had 'Plus 8' or something, on the line. He suggested the signal was coming in, but not going out very well at all, so, that was causing either resends, or, late responses from the office.

It also turned out that he was with the contract company that put in the AT&T wiring. It appears that more of it needs to be redone, at least from what he was saying about their Universal system. They failed to used consistent shielding and wiring from the main street outlets to this building.

When I asked AT%T for a 3 mb/sec connection that they advertize, they said it was not avaliable here, only the universal upgrade.

Now, it also is confirmed that Astound thought this building had been rewired, it hasn't. So, the guys boss is going to try and get the job finished, to actually install the same cable they were advertizing in this building.

Currently the connection has been in the 2.3 to 5.6 mb/sec range.

Wonder if they'd get mad if I hack their modem, to go to 10 mb/sec, and, actually give me the service speed they advertize?

We do need a devil icon...:devil:

 

[ddrueding]

Wonder if they'd get mad if I hack their modem, to go to 10 mb/sec, and, actually give me the service speed they advertize?

Very likely. I've heard they prosecute that stuff rather thoroughly. Plus, if the cabling sucks, I doubt the modem is capping anything.

 

[Santilli]

Yes, I think you are right. Just got done reading about an ATT banning for life a kid who did this.

I'll call the guy tonight, and see what he says. Wonder if it's actually a governor on the modem creating the speed limit???

 

[ddrueding]

Yes, I think you are right. Just got done reading about an ATT banning for life a kid who did this.

I'll call the guy tonight, and see what he says. Wonder if it's actually a governor on the modem creating the speed limit???

There is a governor on the modem, the question is whether it is set above what your cable supports or not.

 

[Santilli]

They've been trying to sell me 10 mb/sec, so, that suggests that the limitation is on the modem, not the line...

That would probably ensure not at least going slower then my ADSL.

David, I'd been thinking about going with Vonnage, but, with 700k speeds at the peak times my girlfriend likes to be on the phone, well,

"That's not going to work."

 

[ddrueding]

700k is plenty for Vonage. It matters more what else you are doing at the time. If you are gaming online or downloading stuff on Bittorrent, it really doesn't matter how much bandwidth you have. If you are just surfing around, it also doesn't matter how much bandwidth you have.

 

[Santilli]

Anyone heard about Astound doing VOip?

 

[Santilli]

Sometimes the conspiracy theorist gets carried away. What if, on this new install, they just crank the line ability way down, to sell you the 10 mb/sec package?

I just ran three tests, highest 1400k, lowest 965. Average is 3.7 mb/ sec, my isp average 5.1 mb/sec.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm perfectly willing to believe that the wiring in your building just sucks.

If you want a REAL cable conspiracy, the building where I work is also home to a Comcast Office. Every single time they make a change to their internet service (which they accomplish by adding more cable lines, apparently), the installer goes up into the ceiling where cable lines come into the building, sees the one line that the LAST installer half-assedly strung to my office, and they cut it, thinking it's someone's bad job of pirating cable.

And then I lose cable internet at work for five days until a different installer shows up and figures out the problem isn't with my equipment or at their junction box.

Then he half-assedly strings me a new line.

That happened to me four times in an 18 month period.

 

[Santilli]

Hi Mercutio
The cable now goes from a box they had outside, through my wall, straight to my modem. The bad wiring is pretty much gone, or, should be, unless they put their box on the end of comcasts old line...

Your situation sounds like a typical cable nightmare. Where is Jim Carrey when you need him?

 

[Santilli]

Turns out the signal was +12 DB/MV.
Now it's around 0. A noticeable bit snappier.

But, the plot thickens. Astound is testing VIOP, and, they are upgrading their system. They are doing it by dumping a bunch of customers on one node, while they upgrade the other nods, hence the extreme fluctuation in download times.

I'm on the phone right now, on hold, waiting to ask about getting more bandwidth. Apparently the bandwidth is controlled from the Concord office, and, once the lines setup right, that's the limiting factor, not the modems. The modems they use are not firmware limited.

Also, one of the techs is going to bring a router over tomorrow, for free. Better then 5 bucks a month.

Seems my XSense router has a limit of around 5.4 mb/sec.

This is all kind of intresting, if not fun.

The tech did get 5.8 mb/sec on his laptop, and, so far, with the router in place, limit has been about 5.4 mb/sec.

They also need testers for VIOP, and my girlfriend would be perfect for that...

 

[sechs]

I have Astound at my new place, and it's terrible. I really miss U-verse.

I've had problems with random slow-downs at night. And I mean at night -- like 11p to 7a, not during prime time. I've seen the upload bandwidth shrink to bytes per second. Contacted them via e-mail and have gotten bupkes back. Will have to call.

I've also had problem with lines on the analog television. They had to do a new drop because this house had never had Astound before -- as it wasn't in their system as serviceable. In theory it should be all fresh and pretty up to the box. Well, the installer did a super-crappy job, splitting the line twice, even though we only activated two sockets in the house. Second tech just pulls out the second splitter. But, now that it's been getting cooler at night, different lines have been appearing. Will have to call.

Knowing that Comcast would be worse really makes me sad.

 

[sechs]

Astound is testing VIOP, and, they are upgrading their system.

Astound already offers digital phone service here. Is this something different?

 

[Santilli]

HMMMM.

That's not what they were offering us, I don't think. I thought they were offering standard, regular phone wiring for their service here.

The guy dropped the a linksys router, and cable modem by, but, they don't have power supplies, yet. Found em on the net for about 9 bucks each. Local radio shack wants 25, each;-(

Waiting to see if they find them.

 

[sechs]

Well, regular phone wiring does not imply that it's not digital. Most systems allow you to plug the magical box right into your phone wall socket, making the phone available throughout the house.

To be honest, it would be a bit silly for them to string another wire out to your house just for phone service, when they can run it digitally on their existing plant.

 

[Santilli]

Installed the Linksys stuff. About 500k faster then the Surfboard Modem, and, the router/switch allows full speed to the computers, which is about 5.9 mb/sec, at best. At worst, instead of getting 700k, I'm getting 1.5 MB/sec.

I wonder what they are going to do with the phones. The wiring for cable is useless, broken down, junk. The only thing it might be good for is pulling another cable in it's place to replace it.

I wonder if the phone lines are as bad as the cabling????