LCD burn-in

i

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Well, this was a surprise ... especially as I'm referring to my own Dell 2001FP right in front of me.

I have 6 virtual desktops, and tend to keep specific tasks confined to their own desktop. I've had one window open in desktop #2 for nearly a month. I've been developing some software for work, so it's been on display as the active desktop most of the time.

I moved the primary window on that desktop for the first time yesterday. I immediately noticed that, in the top-left area of the screen, there was a very strong "after-image" of the window's titlebar. It didn't disappear immediately. I sat there staring at it for about 10 seconds and it didn't reduce in intensity at all. Uh oh. I started moving differently-shaded windows over the area, switching to the other 5 desktops, etc. No luck. Depending on the brightness of the new image displayed in that area, the "ghost" image was still visible. But over the span of about 20 minutes it did become less noticeable. And today, after having had the monitor off for most of the last 24 hours, and having had my windows arranged differently, the after-image is gone.


I talked with some people at work today who frequently work with huge LCD panels. They said they've experienced the same thing, and that sometimes they find the effect is permanent(!) and sometimes it's just temporary.

After dispatching the last of my disbelief (What is this, 1983? Where'd I put my old, amber-colored, monochrome monitor anyway?) I did some searching to see if I could find anyone else experiencing this. I found a good write-up from someone here. His experience is with Dell 2001FPs also, except in his case he's dealing with two that he uses together as a pair. And that, in fact, allowed him to reach one immediate conclusion:

As I mentioned earlier, I have 2 Dell 2001FP in dual view mode and both were showing the same exact wall paper for the same period of time. One had the image persistence, the other one didn't. Both monitors were manufactured on the same date and have the same screens panels.

So, susceptibility varies from unit to unit. I think I can top that though. With my 2001FP, I'm finding that it's only the top-left square of about 7 inches that is vulnerable to "image persistence". So it seems that the LCD pixels themselves on a single monitor can vary in terms of how prone they are to allowing this to happen.

In my case, static images in that upper-left area - positioned there for even a few minutes - leave a visible after-image. How obvious the after-image is depends on how bright subsequent images in the area are.

It's possible my Dell LCD has been prone to this since day one and I just hadn't noticed before.

It's also possible that it's a recent phenomenon. If that's the case, I have to wonder if it's a result of the liquid crystals becoming "fatigued". And if that's the case, then I fear that the currently sensitive 7-square-inch region is going to slowly expand across the whole panel.

Anyway, I just wanted to post my experience here because I believe a number of other SF readers have picked up LCD panels recently, or at least have been looking at them more these days.

I guess the bottom line is that it's still a relatively new technology, especially at the sizes that are available now, and in the volumes that are being produced. And especially compared to how long CRTs have been in production. As a result my advice to you LCD owners is:

1) Don't wait for power management to turn off your LCD panel if you know you won't be back within n-minutes. I hadn't been bothering much with this, instead leaving it up to my computer to suspend the monitor after 30 minutes.

2) Bring back the screensaver! Long live the screensaver! I had ditched screensavers, but now I'd recommend picking one that is light on fixed-elements (preferably nothing fixed at all). I've got the famous "Blaster" screensaver enabled now, configured to start after 5 minutes of activity.
 

i

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Hah. I wouldn't get much work done if I had my screensaver configured like that, now would I? That last part should read, "configured to start after 5 minutes of inactivity."

I wish we could edit posts.
 

P5-133XL

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I'm surprised by this. I haven't notice that it was a problem since, well, a long time ago.

Regardless, I don't use screen savers at all: I just have the power settings turning off all my monitors after 20 minutes of inactivity. I want my machines to fold and "nice" screen savers tend to use up a lot of CPU. The power off screen-saver is a good habit I developed in dealing with servers.
 

MaxBurn

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Not the first time I have heard of this, but I have yet to observe it myself though. I think someone oh the hocp forums even had pictures of this (or another Dell) panel with an after image like you describe.
 

Mercutio

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The couple times I've run into LCD "burn in", I've found it to be correctable by having the PC display a completely black screen for a couple days.

You're saying that some LCDs can burn in permanently?
 

mubs

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Certainly cause for concern. Where can I buy a 22" Mistu CRT again?

I have my screensaver set to "blank" after n minutes, and after y minutes my CRT goes to sleep. I've never ever liked "nice" screensavers.
 

ddrueding

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I have 3 Samsung 191Ts that don't experience this problem. Because I have 3 screens, the same applications stay up in he same positions for a long time; and none of the screens go to sleep if I'm working on one of them. A quick check of autohiding the start bar and minimizing outlook, winamp and firefox for the first time in days shows no afterimage.
 

i

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I wish I had all the answers. I just wanted to post what I'm seeing so far because, as I mentioned, I know many people are looking at LCDs these days (if they haven't already got one).

In fairness, I'd like to highlight the fact that this doesn't appear to be something specific to Dell LCDs. The two quotes provided in that article about after-images were from user manuals for NEC and ViewSonic LCD displays. And from what I've read about the Dell 2001FP specifically, they use LG-Phillips LCD panels - which I don't think are too shabby in general.

As for whether these after-images can turn permanent ... well, that's still a big question. You'll note in the article that the ViewSonic comment seems to rule out the possibility that they could be permanent, but the NEC comment does not. Notice their line starts with, "In most instances..." Well obviously "most" does not mean "all". As for the people I asked at work ... given how busy they are, it's possible that any recovery that takes longer than a day is going to be missed, and as a result the issue is going to be chalked up as permanent by default. Or maybe not.

My intent was not to alarm anyone. I just wanted to raise an issue that I think anyone considering an LCD display should take into consideration when they are debating at exactly what price an LCD display becomes a viable option for them.

Personally, beyond being a bit of an annoying surprise, this doesn't suddenly make LCD displays a non-option for me. Like I said, this is a new technology. And at least in my case - given some effort - even an image that's been up on display off and on for a couple of months eventually disappears.

Of course, if things start to get worse with this display, my perception may change too.

If anyone with an LCD display wants to look for this on their own monitor, I'm finding that a solid background, dark grey in color (RGB #393939) works the best for showing up the after-images. For now (and I say that because for all I know over the next year my monitor may change and the details may change with it), the after-images are not visible against images that are much brighter than that, nor are they visible on complete black.

And don't forget ... for now this is affecting just one region on my panel.

It seems as though my monitor needs to be on and actively displaying anything for at least a half an hour or so ... a sort of "warming up" phase. It's only after having been powered up and active for that time that, if a window is left in one area for about 10 minutes or more, I'll be able to see an after-image when a darker image is displayed. As for how long it takes for the after-image to disappear, that seems to depend on a lot of factors, but I'd say it's about 10 minutes if I don't do anything other than leave that blank, grey background up. Images that have been statically displayed for longer than 10 minutes in turn take longer to disappear.

I don't know what else to tell you at this point. If I ever get a digital camera I will ressurect this discussion and try to post before and after photos.

And you can call me crazy, but I'm still considering buying an LCD television later this year. The up-side of this experience is that I can't see how this particular issue could affect an LCD display that rarely displays static images.
 

Fushigi

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With a widescreen aspect ratio TV, you typically get the black or dark grey static borders on the sides when viewing 4:3 material.
 

time

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i said:
I guess the bottom line is that it's still a relatively new technology ...

Well, it isn't remotely new, it's just a Genuinely Sucky Technology. I predict it will be perfected about the time OLEDs or similar hit their stride. :p

And from what I've read about the Dell 2001FP specifically, they use LG-Phillips LCD panels - which I don't think are too shabby in general.

Well, I'm irretrievably prejudiced here. Unlike Merc, I don't normally hold a grudge indefinitely, but I'll make an exception in the case of LG. If there was a law against screwing consumers with products that die early, LG would be serving life for their CRT efforts alone. :evil:
 

i

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time said:
Well, I'm irretrievably prejudiced here. Unlike Merc, I don't normally hold a grudge indefinitely, but I'll make an exception in the case of LG. If there was a law against screwing consumers with products that die early, LG would be serving life for their CRT efforts alone. :evil:

Hmm ... that's interesting. I was under the impression that things had changed with LG since my first introduction to their products ... which were, by coincidence, their CRT monitors.

Which were, again by coincidence, mostly awful.

We used to joke that the LG monitors must actually have been "Low Grade" monitors or perhaps "LeninGrad" monitors. Perhaps things haven't changed that much.
 

Handruin

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I've had my NEC 1760V for close to two years and I've not seen the effects you discuss. However, my LCD monitor habits are typical of a CRT, I tend to turn off the display whenever I leave the room for more than 10 minutes, and I have the screen go black after 15 if I happen to forget.
 

time

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Whoa! I was just venting. For all I know, LG now stands for "Luscious Grapes" and represents the pinnacle of Low Calorie Displays.
 

Handruin

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My impression of LG products from the past was much of the same. I've heard LG = low grade from other people, but I'm still considering the 2001FP. I almost bought it at $489, but now it's listing for $502 (which I realize isn't a big difference).
 
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